Gary, thank you for your response in the Case 850 thread. sorry to sidetrack you from vcat. As far as the background of the machine to date. When I first bought the machine the local dealer serviced the machine and I was told it had throttle pot issues. I believe that error code was 4321 and that occurred several times. When I got the machine and ran it, I ran into several problems within the first 10 hours of using it. I smelled a strong sulfur stench all day and sure enough the battery located in the left hand side door was swollen and about ready to burst. I took the alternator out and had that replaced because I was told the regulator was bad as well as the battery. That was the start of some strange issues. The machine ran great for another 30 hours. Then my operator calls me and says the machine is reading NO CAN and he cant read the error codes on the menu like you normally should. He pulls the battery leads and I believe a few of the fuses and he now able to run the machine again. We finish the job, shut down the machine and now the transmission error light is on and I have the 4522 and 4521 codes. took the machine back to the shop a month ago and its been sitting since then. We took the two up and down switches out of the joystick, tested them with a meter using tiny phone line and continuity on the meter. Must have tried each switch 50 times and they worked. I did notice that when I ran the machine however that I had to really push hard or several times for the down button to work and adjust the speed % on the gauge. Do you think that test is sufficient to determine if the switches are working? I will replace all the fuses and the lowest fuse block in the left side door. It was the 4 fuse block on the bottom row and thats the fuse that has a 30A in a 1A slot. cant remember at this moment what that slot is for. As far as the parking brake issue, what it was doing was loading and stalling out the machine unless I had it full throttle. It would creep forward but it was loading the engine up as if I was pushing dirt. then at full throttle it seemed like it woud fight to go forward and turn slightly to the right making me think that the right track motor wasnt free to move. I had mechanic come yesterday so I tilted cab. Disconnected the positive lead cause my master disconnect is broke(new one ordered). Looked around and then the mech wanted it to be lowered. So lowered cab and now the NO CAN came back. Mech and my employee got machine started but now the machine wouldn't budge. It would switch into FNR but it wouldn't attempt to drive forward like it would prior to disconnecting the batteries. thoughts? thank you very much for your input Gary.
Wow. That's a lot of information in one post. I need to make sure we are on the same page, so I would like to focus on the current issue. 1. As of right now, the machine will not move, it does not attempt to load the engine, it does not attempt to move. 2. NO CAN is displayed in the dash. 3. You have not replaced all fuses in the fuse block as of yet. 4. When the travel joystick is moved forward or reverse, it does not display F, N or R in the dash. 5. Does your fuse block have ATO fuses (standard size fuses) or does it have mini fuses. From the year, I think its a series 1 machine. The fuse blocks were a problem in all of these machines, and prone to corrosion. The best place to start is to remove all relays, and clean the contacts. Move them around too. Also replace all the fuses.
Sorry I know it's alot. Trying to give some background of the issues . currently the issue I'm having is that the joystick is not communicating properly or consistently. yesterday when I left the Machine and the battery disconnect was on I had no f n r on the screen. today I today I cycled the disconnect on and off and move the joystick back and forth side to side and suddenly the forward neutral reverse symbols reappeared. I will replace all the standars size fuses and I'm going to try your relay trick by using the relay position for the starter. I pulled the transmission and hydraulic filters to check for contamination. both fluids seem to be relatively clean but will replace with new filters.
Update: I purchased a new joystick as per instruction from mechanic that looked at machine. Did NOT solve my problems. I now have a NO CAN that wont clear off the screen. I know from the 850k thread that this means a lack of communication between controllers. I cleaned the relays and changed the fuses. No change. Does anyone know where the third controller is on this machine? One is the joystick, one is the dash cluster, and the other is???? and what is the location of the 3rd controller? thx
The other is the travel controller (service manual will call this drive train controller). It is located under the left side in the cab. It can also be seen from the left side door. What you need to do now is follow the first 2 pages of the 850K thread. I don't have new Holland books, so I am hoping it will be the same pin outs as the Case machines. As far as I know, it will be. I'm just going to copy and paste the first few checks that you need to make. No can means that the controllers can't communicate. On the 9 pin deutsch diagnostic connector, check pins C & D, with the key off. Should have 120 ohms. If not, there is a can resistor inline in the harness under the dash that sometimes burns out. With key on, A should be ground, and B should be 12v. C should be 2.4volts , and D should be 2.6 volts. Advise with test results. **The 9 pin deutsch connector should be under the left side door by the fuse box.
Any idea where in the wire harness the resistor would be? I pulled the cluster, but the harness is short and it is mostly hidden behind the plastic cowling. Would the resistor be 6" behind the harness dash connector? Maybe 12" from the connector? Is there a way to distinguish what letter is assigned to which hole on the Deutch connector? I haven't looked to see if that's labeled or not? Thanks
The resistor is inline in the harness, and you have to cut the loom off to find it. The last one I did was about 10" away from the cluster. You should be able to see a lump in the harness. Before you start digging into the harness you need to check your CAN resistance. The deutsch connector pins are labeled.
I measured the resistance and it read 116 ohms. The voltage was 12v 2.56v 2.4v
Garyhoff, is there any chance that my Travel Control Module needs an software update. As I posted in VCAT's thread I replaced a 1 amp fuse with a 3 amp fuse and the NO CAN went away. My mechanic advised that its possible that it may be a flaw from the factory that needs updated. Or possibly my Travel control module is going bad??? Im praying that its not my travel controller, I know thats not going to be cheap! If I were to purchase a new travel controller, would it need to be installed in my machine and configured? Would it need calibrated to my machine? thanks
There was a software change to the travel controllers several years ago. It mostly added parameters for the dealers, but it also changed the park brake logic. The controller would sometimes not "see" the park brake relay, and would not activate it. Should have fault code 4431 with this. Jump pins 86 to 87 of the brake relay, this allows the controller to directly activate the park brake, and will temporarily fix the above issue. If you were to get a new travel controller, you will have to do calibrations, (which can be done through the dash). The new controller may not have the latest software. Keep this in mind, your travel controller itself is not likely to be faulty. In 10 years at my dealership, I have never changed a faulty travel controller on these dozers. So what is the current issue, as you had a bad fuse which repaired your "NO CAN". All of your CAN voltages and resistance looks good.
Gary, I hate to say this but Im not sure other than changing the 1 amp fuse with a 3 amp that we changed or fixed anything??? We performed all the continuity checks from x9 to x50 to check the CAN wires. they checked OK. We checked the wires from the x56 of the joystick to the x50 of the TCM (Travel Control Module). As I mentioned to you in my novel in post #1, I found a 30 amp fuse in the 1 amp slot that's used for the TCM. I believe that's the culprit of my NO CAN issues. When I brought the machine back to the shop, we went thru the fuses and replaced all the old with new and correct amperage. Now from my painful experience, the 1 amp fuse isnt heavy enough to handle the load, Im only guessing thats why someone stuck a 30 amp in the 1 amp slot! My two current questions: a.) Is it safe to use possibly a heavier fuse..ie 3 thru 10 amp rather than the factory 1 amp where i have it now? I dont want to burn up my TCM by doing so, but apparently some jackass used a 30 amp for god knows how many hours before I bought the dozer! b.) Once I cleared the NO CAN and the 4533 code, I reinstalled my old joystick with no tranny error light. I rechecked the FAULTS and found a 4321. This is the Throttle pot circuit out of range. This particular error was in fact corrected by my the dealer right before I bought the dozer. I ran the dozer around my yard for 20 min. I then rechecked for the 4321 but it wasnt in the faults. Any idea why after all the diagnostics and connector in and out that that code would reappear? Could the POT need recalibrated because I disconnected the TCM? thanks Garyhoff, you are a generous man helping your fellow equipment junkies out! Very much appreciated.
4533 is joystick can message fault. We will ignore that for now. If you are blowing your 1amp fuse to the travel controller, then you have a over current to something. I wouldn't recommend keeping a larger fuse in there, as it may damage your controller. The 1amp fuse is described as "power supply electronics" The 25amp fuse is described as "supply for proportional and switch outputs" This means that there is only a few components that would blow your 1 amp fuse: 1. Throttle pot 2. brake pot 3. a fault in the CAN circuit, either shorted wires or failed controller. ************************************************** 1. If your controller was faulty, it should blow the 1amp fuse just by sitting. So if you put in a 1amp fuse, and just let it run for a while, the fuse shouldn't blow. If it does blow, I would unplug your brake and throttle pot, and re-try the test. 2. If you had a faulty throttle pot or brake pot, (or wiring to them), your fuse should blow when you are working the machine. (this would wiggle the wires, and the operator would be using the brake and throttle pot) I would start by checking the cheapest parts first (brake pot and throttle pot) Since you said you had a brake pot fault come back, it may be related. I would recommend checking wire 523 (pin 23 at controller, and pin A at brake pot). It may be shorted or rubbed somewhere. Also make sure it only has 5v on it. If your controller is acting up, it may be sending more than 5v. This would probably only happen when the machine has be worked for a few hours. Since you said your dealer "fixed" your brake pot issue (code 4321) find out if they changed your brake pot, and that should eliminate at least one thing.
Garyhoff, I thought the 4321 was a throttle POT issue, and not a BRAKE pot??? Am I incorrect? Because the dealer told me they worked on the throttle pot and found a broken wire supposedly. thanks
Yes, your correct, 4321 is throttle pot, I had a mix up on my end. The dealer calibration with the laptop is more accurate than what you can do in the machines dash, assuming they did it correctly. I have also seen where the decal pedal gets hung up (and calibrates wrong) or it over travels.
Gary, I have the same NO CAN light and issue, I cant find the 9 pin CAN plug near the dash could you give me some advice I'm onsite please call/text me 1-931-303-2170
Good morning, I am needing the electrical diagram for a New Holland D85 dozer with ignition problems. I appreciate your help.
What type of problems are you having? Symptoms? I just went thru hell again last fall. Check the battery disconnect switch. Mine went bad. I’ve gone thru 2 disconnect switches in about 5 years. It got so bad the machine wouldn’t fire. I wasted a installing a new starter for nothing.
I need help with a d95b crawler dozer all the electrical wiring was cut and they tried to replace and replace wiring and the machine does not turn on...I need help with the electrical diagram if you can help me I would appreciate it