I think I ran my 1835B out of Diesel. The fuel gauge vibrates all over the place so hard to tell. I shut it off as soon as it started to die. I put fuel in it and after a lot of cranking, it started, but only ran for a few seconds and died again. It did this a couple more times, started after a lot of cranking, died after a few seconds. I don't have the owners manual, and this is my first diesel. I've read few a few posts here about bleeding the air out. Anyone have specific instruction for the 1835B or any other advice? I could really use some help here. I could really use an owner's manual. I ran it out of fuel once before, but after adding fuel and a lot of cranking, it started and ran fine. This has been a very old but very reliable Skid Steer until today. Thanks Paul
Loosen off the injection lines, at the injectors and crank over the engine. When fuel comes out of them the air is bled out. Tighten the lines and it should run. The fuel shut off solenoid wire breaks off sometimes too, so check that, if no fuel comes out.
Sometimes when you run low on fuel you suck up all the garbage in the bottom of the tank and plug up the lines somewhere. Save your starter, find the bleeder screw either on the injection pump or filter housing, and see if you get good squirts of fuel when you use the primer lever on the fuel pump, or crank it over. Don't keep cranking it if it's not pumping fuel or at least air. Otherwise, agree with Gary, loosen the lines at the injectors to help it start once the injection pump has fuel.
Thanks for the replies guys. I hope I haven't already screwed up my starter up, I cranked and cranked on Friday after refilling it. I smelled something that smelled like hot brakes, that can't be good, hopefully just some hot insulation. I haven't gone back to it since, but will this evening. This old rig has been so reliable that I have kinda of taken it for granted. I've worked on cars for years, but this is the first diesel I've owned. I took a quick look at it on Friday and saw the injector lines and I think I saw the bleeder valve at the top of the filter. I'll look for the solenoid tonight too. Thanks a lot, I'll report back.
Good luck. Only crank the engine over for 20seconds at a time, and let cool for 2 minutes, or else you will cook your starter.
Need some help identifying stuff. In the top photo, I think that's the fuel filter with bleeder on top?? 2nd. photo - injector pump? Electrical for solenoid? 3rd. - full photo of filter 4th. and 5th. - there are round whitish looking things, what are they? Questions: Is there a separate solenoid? I loosened the bleeder on what I think is the filter and cranked once for a few seconds, maybe 20. nothing came out. Should I keep trying after letting it rest in between? Figured the fuel would get there quickly?
1st photo is an accidental repeat 2nd. Injector tubing, compression fitting right? Loosen the bottom one are getting fuel out of top of filter? 3rd. Been leaking what I thought was hydraulic fluid. Look closely, the bolt on top of the pump has cut into the radiator hose. Where can I buy parts? 4th. What is that? Not even sure if it's part of the fuel system. I can't believe how dirty this old thing is, but I guess I should be surprised, it's real old and spent most of it's years outside in the mountains and more recently, outside in the desert. There are rat and mice dropping along with an abandoned bird egg!! Do these have a removable belly pan - I think I saw somewhere that they don't. Thanks again for any additional advice. Paul
OK, there are no bleeder screws on that injection pump, it bleeds the air through the return on the top. Follow the line that goes into the center of the end, probably goes to the filter, then follow the other line at the filter back to hopefully find a priming pump with a lever on it. If you find a priming pump then you don't have to use the starter to prime the filter and injection pump. You'll still need to use the starter to get the air out of the injection lines, but that should be less than a minute if the injection pump is full and the lines are loosened at the injectors. I've never seen a fuel filter mounted upside down like that, that would ordinarily be the water drain on the filter, but it will work to bleed the air in this case.
I would take off the fuel filter carefully and dump what ever fuel it has in it into a white container. Look for trash and water. Replace if necessary. Fill the filter back up with clean full and try again . Read this http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/6-...lp-please.html#/forumsite/20625/topics/362070 And this http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=crawlers&th=36524 And this HeavyEquipmentForums
Yes that is your bleed screw on top of the fuel filter. Follow your fuel line back, (towards the fuel tank) and you should find a primer plunger pump. You will have to pump that until fuel comes out of the fuel filters.
Sorry you lapped me. (us) Yes, yes, yes, those white things don't matter. There is not another solenoid, and no power at the injection pump will not prevent the fuel pump from working. It should have squirted out fuel fairly quickly. That fourth picture on the next post sure looks like a priming pump, loosen that thumbwheel, swing the wire out of the way and pump that plunger up and down until the fuel comes out of the top of the filter, then keep pumping for a minute (slowly is fine). The second pic, the tee is the return. Loosen the other one half a turn, use two wrenches so you don't bend the line on the injector. One half turn loose on one is usually enough.
Found Coleman Equipment with diagrams and part names - helps a lot. I knew there were two filters, but I didn't know they were primary and secondary. I thought one must be for oil. Hard to tell they were connected with all the dirt on them.. I also learned that the gizmo in the last photo is a priming pump. You undo the knurled nut, take off the wire retaining thingy, and it becomes a pump. Well, it doesn't seem to be pumping anything. I pumped it 200 times, nothing came out the upper filter. So, now I am assuming that either the tank/line is clogged or the pump doesn't work. There has to be a check valve either in the filter housing or the pump, otherwise the fuel would go back to the tank once the engine shut off, right? So, if I take the vent off of the upper filter, fill it with diesel, wouldn't that get fuel into the pump? This thing has most likely lost it's prime don't you think? Of course I put ALL of the diesel I had on hand into the tank. Speaking of the tank, it's interesting how the tank sits on both sides connected underneath. Where can I get a radiator hose? It's been fun learning how it works, now I just want to get it working!
Oops, missed your reply before I added mine. Excellent advice. I think the priming pump is probably shot (I hope so). There are two filters, one mounted directly below and inverse to the one shown. It is thick with dirt and grime. For now I am going to just fill the upper filter and see what it does. If it runs, I'll start putting a shopping list together. It's time to change all of the filters, Air, 2 diesel, and oil filter along with the engine oil. If my leak has been the radiator hose all along, I will be a happy camper! Radiator still have anti-freeze in it so it must not be leaking too bad. I haven't found where to purchase the radiator hose yet though. Thanks again - really helps!!! Oh, and I will check out your links...
I install a boat type squeeze type primer on my diesels as those plunger types don't pump air, bobcat uses them. Also you might check for a cracked fuel line from the tank the pump.
I wouldn't fill any filter with diesel. Just unnecessary and bad practice. It's easy to diagnose parts rather than replace them "shotgun" style. Take the hose off the fitting on the priming pump that goes toward the filter, the outlet of the pump, and pump it then, you can even use a finger as another check valve. If that doesn't get it to pump the air out and squirt fuel then take the hose off the tank and stick it in a can of fuel (with the other hose still off) and pump it again. Plunger pumps will pump air, just not against vacuum and suction at the same time, that's why you have to loosen an injector nut later on. There's still a possibility some random trash blocked one of the lines somewhere, before the priming pump most likely.
Why is that?
It's too easy to get dirt or junk in the clean side of the filter, which goes straight into the injection pump. Unnecessary because there's a priming pump that fills the filter quicker than you can find a can etc. if the lines aren't clogged. If the lines are clogged, then find out where and fix it.
Those are good points. I called a friend of mine whom is a heavy equipment mechanic. He told me that in all cases when possible he fills up the fuel filter for diesel engines with clean fresh fuel, although it is not as important if the unit has an electric fuel pump. There is no point in burning a starter up trying to bleed out air in a closed system. He stated sometimes it can take hours breaking loose lines trying to get air out of the fuel system if the machine shuts down from air in the pump. Most guys don't bother breaking loose injector lines priming up the system, unless the key start method fails. I always fill oil and fuel filters up on diesels if they have been emptied. I have never had down time reprimeing a system. Fill filter then use prime pump, roll it over for about 3 secs, stop, prime pump till pressure felt. Normally fires up, coughs a little, then smooths out. If no start prime while some else uses the starter. My way may not be the "book" way, but I use a lot of different equipment and maintain it myself and this way works for me. I have one bad boy cummings engine that has had algae problem in the dual tanks. If my truck stops blowing black smoke, it is time for a filter. It amazes me , so much water and slime can get picked up. I study what is in m6 filters and I have learned to only buy fuel at big busy stations, I run street diesel in my off road machines
Ordered a bulb type pump on ebay. Figured if nothing else it will help me troubleshoot. Bought some fuel line, but other than that, didn't touch it today. Nursing my sore neck. Hopefully be able to get back on it tomorrow. With "Georgia Iron" saying that he fills filters all the time, I may still try that being real careful to keep everything clean, may run the fuel through a coffee filter first?? If the priming pump is bad, then my options are limited. I don't want to spend $200 on a new prime pump if I don't have to. Thanks again!
Fluid goes through pretty much any filter from the outside inwards to the centre, so if you pour fluid into the centre of a filter you're putting it into the "clean" side. It doesn't matter how much care you take that fluid will not be adequately clean. If I saw any of our mechanics pulling that stunt I'd cut his hands off so he couldn't do it again, but anyone who wants to pre-fill filters that way is welcome to, just don't do it on my gear. Putting fluid into the clean side of the filter thus means whatever you put in there then goes directly into the engine unfiltered. You ought to be able to bleed the system using the priming pump, and once you have the system free of air to the injector pump, by cracking the injector lines. The best procedure I can think of to get air out of a fuel system that's been run dry is to "follow the fuel" - i.e. figure out the route the fuel takes from the tank right to the injectors by following the lines. Bleed each section of line at a convenient point and once you're confident there is no more air left between the tank and that particular point move on to the next bleed point and repeat the process. The final bleed point would probably be the steel lines between the fuel injection pump and the injectors at the injector end. The manual priming pump will be the first bleeding tool, the starter motor (to bleed the injector lines) probably the last.
Suit yourself on filling the filter, nothing more to say there. The machine will run fine without that priming pump, and there are plenty of options for priming, the bulb type pump is just fine. Using air pressure in the fuel tank is another. Not running out of fuel is a good idea too. With any method, having the tank close to full will help a lot. But if there's trash in there it's easier to clean a little fuel out than a full tank to clean the tank.
Maybe if the tank is empty or close to it right now it could be the time to drain the tank and give it a good flush out before refilling, just to avoid dragging anything that might be kicking around inside the tank all the way through the system..?
Nige, most of these issues happen while working a machine in some remote place maybe even on a hill. My international dump truck does not have a priming pump on it. The mechanic I know, works with 6 others they maintain over 2100 pieces of heavy equipment. Working in a shop vs field repair does not always take the same path. I know another heavy truck mechanic that pours straight ATF in the fuel filter, says it will clean the injectors. I have not tried that one yet. Do you think filling an oil filter is a good idea? I am curious as to what other's think about filling oil and fuel filters vs not?
I would not pre-fill a filter of any type TBH. I was taught not to at an early age. Shop or field it makes no difference to me, I just don't do it - end of, and neither does anyone who works for me on pain of death. 99 times out of 100 you'll probalby get away with it, but there will be that one time that the can containing the oil/fuel isn't clean or whatever, the next thing you know you have a big $ failure on your hands caused by premature wear caused by the dirt that someone got in the system. Talking about an engine filter as per your example. If you look at the flow rate of the oil pump and know the oil capacity of the filter(s) you'll generally find that it will likely take about 1-2 seconds or less to put the low oil pressure light out from the time the engine fires up which means that the filter is now full of oil. That length of time is not going to result in internal engine damage IMHO. I've heard the one about ATF allegedly cleaning injectors but until someone comes up with a scientific reason to prove why it works as far as I'm concerned it's an old wives tale. (Other opinions are no doubt available)
I understand and respect your opinion. I keep a special can just for my filters, I also have clean newer white buckets on hand to look at fluids that come out of my machines. Around us we have 700,000 people in our area and a major fuel supplier, which means our stations always keep the fuel fresh. One driver told me they use 10,000 gallon tanks and the fuel trucks hit them 3 times a day. As well as my auxiliary diesel tank on my truck has its own filter and the best method to get fuel cleaned up for me is to just let it sit and settle for a few days then slowly take the fuel off the top and it burns fine even if it was dirty before hand. With dirt and wear in a fuel system, I would think it take times for the wear to happen. On the older machines which the OP has and mostly what I use, I bet the tolerances are already opened up some and the injection system does not operate at the high pressures the newer stuff does. If your are not smart enough to find and use clean fuel in your equipment then your days running your own machines will be numbered anyway.
I pulled the hose from the priming pump where it connected to the primary filter, pumped it, and nothing. Then I took the priming pump out (pain in the ##%%%, no room). Blew into the line going into the fuel tank, no restriction. Was able to lower the hose from the tank low enough to flow fuel from it, so that was good. Decided to take the priming pump apart (I think it's an after market because it was kind of "jury rigged" mounted). Anyway, there are two little check valves inside of the pump, both were gunked up. I spent an hour taking it all apart, cleaning it up real good and putting it back together. It was pumping air and working as a check valve, so I knew it would pump fuel. Reinstalled on the Skid Steer with new hose (worse than taking it off), gave it a few pumps and fuel came right out of the top of the secondary filter. I cracked open the first fitting going into the injection pump and bled it there too. At that point I thoughtI would try starting it and after maybe 15 seconds, she fired right up!! I've learned a lot about my old Skid Steer in the past couple of weeks. I REALLY APPRECIATE you guys helping me out!!! THANK YOU! Paul
Good job sticking with it and figuring it out.
Glad to hear you got it sorted. As I said before, "to diagnose - follow the fuel" ..........
" I am curious as to what other's think about filling oil and fuel filters vs not? " G Iron - I do the same as you (I filter the diesel through a 10 micron filter on the pump I have), though I can understand someone not doing it. My friend is a old school diesel mechanic and does it. The transmission guy I use does it, and he recycles the atf from the transmissions he works on into his dodge with a 5.9 cummins. Think I remember him saying he runs it straight (unmixed with anything else) and he's got high miles on his cummins with original injection pump too.
Pretty much any Tier 0 engine, straight mechanical, CAT, Cummins, Detroit, etc. I wouldn't get excited if someone filled the filters with filtered fresh fuel and did a clean job of it. The newer fuel systems though, I know CAT when they made the change from the old... hmm... 1P2299? that fit everything forever, went to I believe a 2 micron filter because of the tighter tolerances and the low sulfur fuel. No way you can maintain a 2 micron cleanliness on the filtered side of a filter unless you do it in a clean room or the like.
I'm not a fan of filling filters at all, those boat type primer bulbs will do it fast. Never had any luck filling a filter with those primer pumps even brand new on any engine, maybe after pumping a long time.
Never fill filters. Especially with tier 3 and tied 4 equipment. That being said, in the field I find myself filling filters all the time, quick and dirty. Never filled an oil filter, that's just pointless.
Here's something else I have noticed messing with fuel filters, in some cases if you have water in the fuel and you let the machine sit, the water is sitting in the filter. It drains to the center clean area. It then starts to rust. This can be sent straight into your fuel pump... anyone noticed that? I had that happen on a fairly new napa filter, which is currently the only fuel water separator I have on my dump truck and no other filter is between it and the pump.. I have been thinking about this and I might need to add or change it..
No drain tap on the filter I take it..? If not where are you supposed to drain condensation from the system..? Usually it's the primary filter/water separator and if the machine doesn't have one then I would have thought there would be no alternative other than to have a drain on the fuel tank and open it regularly. Obviously the water went from the tank to the filter.