I'm a newbie to this posting as well as a new owner of a case 1840 skid steer (2001). Just bought 2 months ago, previous owner said had to full throttle and use quick start to start machine. Only has 1200 hours and is very clean. Had a mechanic check over, fuel celenoid is working, but this switch does not. I've been on the phone with case and they can't figure out what this switch is, pictures attached. There is a fuel line above and below this switch. If this is not an original case pump (which I'm wondering as no one has been able to figure this part) is there someone out there that would know make.
Hmmm.. if only there was a guy.. maybe a pump guy.. lol That my friend is called a cold start solenoid or CSD. The housing heats up and pushs the rod that's in the center of the housing for normal running conditions. In the cold position, fully retracted up in the housing, the timing mechanism is in a state of advance or retard for easier starting. Once the housing heats up, it pushes the rod out, to cut off the advance/retard circuit to run normally.. That rod in the pic is WAY to far up in the housing.. it looks broken to me.. in the normal relaxed position it should stick out some. Basically, its a wax motor.. and it looks like someone has broken the back of the motor by pushing it WAY in to far.. You NEVER want to pull the rod OUT.. it gets air trapped behind it and then you have to burp it until the rod will collapse inside the housing. It moves VERY slow and takes about 3-5 minutes to fully push out.. If you want to test it, get some wire w/ alligator clips and connect 12 or 24v to it. Depending on the pump and engine is what determines the voltage.. its probably stamped on it somewhere, probably the hex area. It reads cold or hot from the cooling and air system.. As long as you have it out, get the #'s off the side of the pump hsg.. the important ones start out w/ 0 460 *** ***
I just re-read what I wrote.. SOME OF THEM work totally backwards.. they need to be energized to start and THEN when it gets to temp the voltage drops and they are set to run normal advance.. It just depends on how the engine folks wanted it to work.. and that's how Bosch built the pump. Get me the pump #'s & we'll see if we can figure it out.. Some are energized to start and some are energized to run.. Don't loose the oring that's on it.. and lube it up before installing.. MAKE SURE its sitting in the recess in the hsg.!!! I coat the oring and put it in the housing FIRST, then install the CSD.
I just want to start by saying Thank You!! This part has frustrated me, as I am far from mechanical. The guy working on this did say that selenoid was the only one that didn't work when he put power to it. This is just awesome, your the first person that knew the part and I have sent pictures to 3 different Case places who believe it is was the shut off selenoid, or had no idea; so THANKS!! The number stamped on the top of the motor 39004340 3908083 The numbers on the pump, I hope I wrote properly 0 460 424 189 R 840 2 3 935 679 0106 (908) 182 09040 7812 14 1
Just hook 12v to it while its out.. + to the spade and - to the body and wait.. If you have a sweeping volt needle on your voltage box, adjustable voltage.. and an amp guage. It will read a small voltage drop and a small amp reading.. when hooked up.. IF its burnt up the volts wont drop and the amps will be real hi.. I'll try to research it now..
IF YOU FIND YOUR WAX MOTOR IS BURNED UP.. The P# is a Bosch>> 1 467 202 319 You can get it off the web or your local diesel inj. pump shop.. take your old one w/ you.. They may sell you a used one.. ASK.. The spec sheet isn't telling me the voltage OR how it operates.. energized to run or energized to s/off.. Its easy to tell once its on the test bench with all the gauges we have hooked up, but that doesn't help you.. sorry.
Fuel Just an update, I finally got the new part and had it installed. Unfortunately, the machine doesn't stay running. I had to continue using the starting fluid to load the machine on the trailer. Wondering how that could of happened as I only had to use the fluid to start the machine prior the new celenoid, now it seems to be starving for fuel. Anyway, loaded the machine on trailer and will be taking it to a case service place. Curious if you had any insight as to what i could tell these guys. Much appreciated
Maybe they gave you the wrong part, one that is backwards to the way it should be...
Now it sounds like a supply problem.. Does it have an electric supply pump in the filter head? what about a pump bulb, like on a boat gas tank?? It probably sat for so long the fuel has drained back to the tank.. and the filters are dirty.. I guess we don't have to worry about it seeing its on its way to the "stealer".. 100.00 bucks says, the 1st thing they say is the pumps bad and has to go to the rebuilder.. THEN.. when it gets back, they START to diagnose it.. only to find it has/had a supply problem.. .. I fixed/diagnosed 2 this month ON THIS SITE, for the same problem.. crap in the feed line going to the pump.. 1 guy found his in the banjo bolts coming in & out of the filter head and the other fella took his line off and blew back to the tank w/ air pressure.. Problem solved.. and it didn't cost them 2000.00 bucks.. Pump o/h and r&r is gonna be over a grand and then the new filters, all new rubber lines, probably a new lift pump and whatever else... about 2K +..
I hear ya, pump guy. I always try to sniff around for the simple stuff... I once was perplexed by an old gas Allis Chalmers engine that would quit runnin, when the gauge on the tank got to 1/4. Turns out, the solution was gravity... At 1/4 tank, the gravity fuel bowl had enough suction, to draw the dead bumble bee down over the top of the tank drain, and block the flow... Finally saw it, when I stuck a camera down into the tank...
Just wanted to say thanks to you guys, its pretty kewl to be able to post something and have some people who know what they're talking about to take the time to reply. It just sucks im not mechanical. Anyway, opted not to take to case service as was over an hour to float there. So, going to have a mobile mechanic over. It definitely seems to be a fuel problem, as it took me and another person just to get it off trailer with quick start. So it seems to be starving for fuel. Going to mention this to him about a flush or something. On the phone he inquired if it was the glow plugs? Anyway, will let u know how I make out. Thanks again to all especially the pump guys I really appreciate, as it gives me some insight or at least the right questions to ask.
If it was bad glow plugs it would have run on fuel after running on ether for a few seconds. Good or bad glow plugs would not make it starve for fuel.
Sounds simple but have you changed fuel filters. Some had two, an inline one and also a screw on water filter. If not changed since you bought it I would start with them. They should be changed every year anyway even when little used.
That is a Bosch VE injection pump on a cummins motor...4B. Some of the 4B motors came with VE IP's and some got the CAV industrial pumps (like mine). The Cold start motor is also called a KSB...which is the letters for the German translation of cold start solenoid. As mentioned it is powered by 12V signal.....if there is no air temp sensor in the intake plate then it will require a constant 12V signal to melt the wax motor and have the timing come back from it's cold advanced mode. If there IS an air temp sensor then it only gets a 12V signal until the air temp sensor reads 90*F (I believe) then the 12V signal is shut off. Your no start issue could be a bad fuel filter, or bad fuel.....very common on the cummins motors. I would change the fuel filter, fill it with diesel before installing it, then use the prime lever on the lift pump and prime the system really well, and see if it starts. If no start then it could also be a bad battery, or starter.....these cummins motors need to spin over pretty quickly to fire. There is also a FSS (Fuel shut down solenoid) on the top of the injector head, should have a 12V signal to it when the key is turned on, if the wire has been dislodge, or the FSS is bad, you will not get any fuel to the injectors.
Well changed fuel filter, which was like varsol. Primed lifter pump, and kept cracking the injectors to bleed which was getting fuel there. Anyway, still won't turn over or no smoke. Mechanic said either still have bad fuel or injectors could be clogged or I screwed the motor with the ether hope Which a rebuild sounds expensive. Really appreciate the replies and your insights to all you guys anyway contemplating trying to do myself. I was told 800 for rebuilding the injectors. So thinking taking old ones out maybe get new ones then blowing the lines all out. Put injectors in prime hope start. Curious, in order to get cage off I need to get the arms up so I can roll forward. I'm assuming if I open a hydraulic line I could lift the arms up and let fluid to drain from cylinder. Apologies for long message
Oh I noticed the green light for the system normal indicator isn't on. I do believe it was before, not sure what that means. I have to try and find a manual for this machine
could mean battery is below 11volts, ive got manuals for the 1840, happen to have the serial number?
Yes here's the serial JAF0362110. I believe it is a 2001.
If your getting fuel to the injector you should be getting some kind if smoke if it's reaching the injector nozzle. It sounds like you may have leakage in your injector pump not allowing enough cracking pressure for the injectors. Make sure your engine cranking speed is up to par. This allows the pump to build pressure quickly to pop your injectors. You could also have a low compression problem with your engine. I've seen injectors carbon foul, but it's rare.
800.00 for 4 injectors??!!! wow.. that's ALOT!! 400.00 MAYBE.. Before you spend that much.. take one injector out and hook it back up, OUTSIDE the engine and SEE if its popping open.. Its dangerous, so be careful and don't get near the spray.. the spray can penetrate your skin and give you blood poisoning. I/we do it all the time, just stand clear when cranking the motor. IF it IS opening.. spend 100.00 for a diesel compression tester to check the condition of the engine.. 100 beats the hell outta 800.00 I also had several that the injectors were stuck open and allowing compression into the fuel system.. blowing air into the pump & injectors.