Hi everyone, I've been lurking around the forum for some time now but am hoping you guys can help me with my latest problem. I recently purchased a 1969 580CK diesel with a power shuttle and 4 speed. I bought this machine not running with a broken ring gear on the flywheel. Over the course of a few weekends, I managed to split the tractor and replace the ring gear successfully. This is my first piece of heavy equipment so I learned a lot along the way. Once the tractor was running I went through the machine and replaced all the fluids and filters, put a couple new tires on the rear, installed new gauges, re-wired the tractor and welded on a roll bar. Everything seemed to be working well with the exception of a couple leaky cylinders. Last weekend I finally put her to work and started pulling some stumps out which was going very well. As I was using the loader to fill the holes back in, I heard a pop followed by a rattling noise. It was still driving, but I knew something wasn't right. I pulled the shift lever cover off to discover 5-6 teeth broken off what I believe is 1st gear on the countershaft. A lot of the other gears have the edges of the teeth chewed up/rounded, but nothing else is broken. I also noticed that there was a weld repair on one of the shift forks, which is suspicious to me. Any ideas what might have caused the failure and the rounding of the teeth? I'm planning on splitting the tractor again between the powershuttle and the transmission, but I would really like to know what caused the failure before throwing more money at it. Here's a couple pics to show what I'm referring to: The gear that has broken teeth in the bottom of the second picture. It's the first gear towards the engine on the bottom shaft, it is quite a bit more narrow than most of the others. Thanks in advance for any help or ideas. -Luke
roundness on the gears is normal shift wear . Chipped teeth would be unproper shifting on the run since they are not syncroed. sounds like someone was rough on the shifting bending or breaking the forks . I bet the fork for 1st and 2nd were welded
Yep, it was the 1-2 shift fork that was welded. I've been searching through the parts diagrams and it would appear that the gear with the broken teeth is actually an oil slinger, not a drive gear. I'm wondering if I can get away with replacing the broken gear and the welded shift fork? It's a fine line between time to do the repair and cost of replace all the parts. I believe it's number 8 in this diagram:
replacing 8 means you need to work with the ring and pinion. I dont wanna say the broken oil slinger is fine but i think it should be ok. If the gears are not broke id leave them. They should last if the machine is properly shifted. I would replace the forks if they are bent or welded.
after looking at the diagrams the oil slinger is between 3rd and 4th. have you checked every gear in the transmission for missing teeth ? Im not sure if the slinger would cause that rattle
Since I heard the initial pop, there is definitely a rattling noise that hasn't gone away in the few minutes I've driven it. I'm assuming this is coming from gear teeth rubbing against each other. Maybe the shift fork bent when the slinger broke causing alignment issues? Here's the best pic I currently have of the broken gear. The bottom of the picture is the engine half of the tractor. Thanks for your help!
I must have been turned around, you're right, the slinger is between 3rd and 4th gears. I guess it's the 3-4 shift fork that was repaired then. It's the one with the mechanic's wire on it, hard to see the nasty weld repair in this picture:
that is the oil slinger. Its possible the forks are not engaging the gears correctly
I'll have to have a look in the service manual and see if I want to tangle with the ring/pinion. I know it can take some skill to get the engagement pattern set right. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad as I'm not changing the bearings or shims. I would really prefer to replace the slinger gear for piece of mind.
i hear you there. Im not sure how advance your wrenching skills are but anything is fixable. The counter shaft is the pinion so the rear has to come apart to slide the gears off the counter shaft. I think the main has to come apart as well.
I'd say I'm about a 7/10 with my wrenching skills, I'll have a better look at it tomorrow when I'm out at the lot. I think my top priority is getting my hands on a 3-4 shift fork and a slinger gear as a start. Alternatively, if someone had a complete transaxle for the right price it might be the fastest way to get back to work. Thanks again for your help.
Luke; here is a link to company that sells aftermarket gears and about anything else you may need. I have purchased from then myself. Very knowledgeable people to deal with. http://www.joseph.com/
Worth running a magnet down around the bottom of the gearbox to see if there are any loose parts, a chipped tooth isn't a big deal but a stray tooth getting between two big strong gears can become something more catastrophic. Sounds like a bent fork could be causing some issues, you might see uneven wear patterns on the fingers. Maybe some new shift forks are in order.
Definitely try to find the piece don't forget to check the drain bucket , might have come out with the oil but usually ends up in a corner crevice
Definitely change the oil slinger. It may have more shrapnel ready to break off of it.
I'm planning on starting into the job this week. I was able to track down an oil slinger, 1-2 gear, 3-4 gear and both shift forks for a pretty good price. I have no interest in splitting this tractor a 3rd time, so I figured I'd replace anything with signs of damage/wear. Has anyone done this before? According to the service manual, I'll have to pull the diff apart.
There are a few threads here that deal with this. Do a google search with Heavy Equipment Forum after the subject. Between those threads and the service manual you should be good to go but if you have any specific questions, someone here will surely help out. Good luck.
the Diff has to come apart I dont see any other way of doing it
Just about have the tractor split. All of the bolts are out, I just have to pull the halves apart. A hell of a lot easier than splitting the engine from the torque converter! Finger's crossed I don't find any other carnage while I'm in there.
I have found the culprit. Looks like a bolt had been floating around the gearbox and finally decided to jam itself between two gears. Not happy about having to rip everything apart for shoddy workmanship, but glad I found the root cause. I did find another small pin lying in the front housing. Does anyone recognize it? Looks like its been there a while. I wasn't able to fully disassemble the gearbox, one of the countersunk slot screws that hold the bearing housing for the diff is seized and I can't get it apart. I'll have to bring the torches out and see if that will persuade it. I also pulled the shuttle out to inspect/measure the clutch discs while it's apart. I need to put this machine to work and don't want to be repairing it again. More to come on that soon enough.
1st bolt you speak of looks like a rivet from the ring gear. I can not recognize that 2nd pin
I'll double check the ring gear, it did have threads on it though.
I took the powershuttle apart tonight to see if it needed a rebuild. I found a couple issues, but the clutch packs look fine to me. I found a cracked thrust washer, there appears to be a not so nice weld repair to the mainshaft and the 3 split rings that go into the torque tube are a bit chewed up. I don't really like the look of the mainshaft, but I do have a budget and I figure its likely been like this for years.
did you ever figure out that bolt rivet looking thing was from?
The bolt may have been dropped into the case by someone, or fallen in. The pin may be a rail interlock pin. #17
Looks like you might be onto something Tinkerer. Based on the weld repair on the fork, someone has definitely been in there before. The shifter seems to work as it should, but someone may have lost the part and just replaced it instead of going hunting in the gearbox. I'm hoping to bring my torches out to the lot tomorrow and get that countersunk screw out of the diff bearing plate.
I had one hell of a time disassembling the rest of the transmission last night. Why the Case engineers thought it was a good idea to use internal snap rings without any circlip holes is beyond me. I also found the infamous fibre thrust washers in the diff. I have an order coming tomorrow from Dale @ TractorStuff for new axle seals, brake shaft seals, power shuttle metal seals and a thrust washer for the power shuttle. I would really like to get this back together before I forget how it goes...
them clips are pesky .... took me forever to get one off then back on
It's been slow going on the assembly, we've gone from a month of rain to 100F heat. I've got the transmission and diff back together and within tolerance. I have a powershuttle question before I put it back together. When I took it apart, I found that the 1/16th thrust washers were paired with the 1/8th thrust washers. Has anyone seen this as it's not how it's shown in the parts diagram. In the diagram, it shows the 1/16th washers paired (13) and the 1/8th washers paired (14). When it's assembled this way, it leaves a 1/16th gap between the reverse shuttle half and the large ball bearing. This is where the cracked thrust washer was and i'm wondering if the gap caused this?
It should have been assembled exactly as shown in the parts list. Which thrust washer was cracked ? I would replace all of the thrust washers and the bearings that are between them. #11 in the parts diagram. This is when a service manual is priceless.
Hi Tinkerer, I do have a service manual, I'm just looking for reassurance that it is in fact correct. I keep finding instances on this machine where parts were assembled incorrectly or missing parts altogether, which is why I'm second guessing everything now. It was one of the 1/8th thrust washers that was cracked, #14 in the diagram. The powershuttle did work when the tractor was running, but I want to make sure it goes back together right this time. The kit you show seems to contain both a 1/8th washer, a 1/16th washer as well as the thrust bearing. It seems odd that that would package the kits this way as you would need to order 4 kits and have two 1/16th washers and a bearing left over? Thanks for your help!
all the manuals needed for a 580ck http://www.minnpar.com/manuals5.asp... 580 SERIES PARTS MANUALS&SSSFName=CASE 580CK
Notice ---> KIT, Includes Ref. 12-14. That means to me everything from #12 to and including #14. The recommended quantity is 1 kit. Buy the kit and see what you get.
Alright, I think I've finally made some headway. The cause of a much of my concern was the two circlips and splined washers. These had been installed incorrectly and it was throwing off the assembled heights of the clutch hubs. Once I got that straightened out, the washer thicknesses as shown in the service manual would work out. I need to exchange a 1/8th washer for a 1/16th washer and I'll be all set. I called Dale @ TractorStuff and he was very helpful as usual, he confirmed that the kit does come with a 1/16th washer, a 1/8th washer and a bearing. Only available from Case and is $125USD. I'm going to see if I can source one locally first or even have my machinist make one for less. After understanding how it was assembled incorrectly, the cracked washer makes a lot more sense. Hopefully this will be the last of the surprises, it's amazing it worked at all. Thanks for your help guys. More to come in the next couple of days.
Those washers most likely have a precision thickness. I don't think a machinist could make a duplicate to an NEW OEM one without knowing the measurement. How much wear is on the ones you have now will make a definite difference in the clearance for the bearings. It would be best to get the kit.
Might be able to find a grade 8 fender washer or if you can find a buddy with a surface grinder and magnetic chuck
I ended up ordering new thrust washers from my local bearing supply, they're a standard size and were $7.50 from Koyo instead of 2 x $188 for the kit from Case. The tractor is back together now and I tested it without the bull gears in with no issues or strange noises. The axle seals were leaking so I figured I should do them now before I have all the covers on. Hoping to use a friends press to take to pop the bearings off without destroying them, I'm guessing they've been on there a while. Planning in being back digging by Wednesday or Thursday.
glad the job went all good. Happy digging
One somewhat desperate method to get one of those "no-hole" snap rings off is to use a torch to heat the side opposite the opening then while it is still hot use the snap ring pliers to spread it. It should go without saying that this means you will need a new one to reassemble, but sometimes you just have to get mean with things and a couple dollars for a new ring is better than spending hours trying to salvage one. Just wait till the time you have to remove an internal "no-hole" snap ring with squared off ends! Been there-done that!
i got it off somehow I dont remember tho lol Im sure a lot of bad language was involved
kshansen, I was dealing with one of the no hole internal snap rings you speak of on this unit. I ended up heating the tip up enough to anneal it, once vice grips would bite into it I could use a pry bar on them to pop it out. Took forever and was very frustrating. I've run across a few design issues that had me shaking my head on this job.
When ever I did have to install one of those I would grind a step in the outside of at least one end of the new ring to let me have a chance to start working it out with a thin screw driver. Did this even if it was a machine I might never see again. It's kind of like putting the belly pan bolts back in with lots of anti-seize, always try to be nice to the next guy because he may be you!
I'm with you there kshansen! I took the axles up to the machine shop last night so I could press the bearings on/off. They were seriously on there, no way I was getting them off without a press. Then I chucked up the axles in the lathe and polished the seal surfaces, there was a bit of a groove worn and some pitting but they cleaned up ok. When I pulled the axles, I found that the axle tubes were half full of grease. It seemed a little excessive, but I couldn't really see an amount specified in the manual. Is there any need to put more than a few pumps in after I re-install the axles? I cleaned and pre-greased the bearings before I pressed them back on.
I did nine because of both oil and grease in the tube. Both inner and outer seal were replaced. We had some discussion on here about the outer seal and after a short conversation with Dale, I built a bearing puller using a hydraulic jack for the push. Pictures of the bearing puller and the outer seal installation plates are somewhere on my 580ck Project thread. The seal tool is shown in the manual and pretty easy to make. Without it or something similar, you can't set the seal in place with the flanged axles.
Sorry for the multiple pics, not sure what happened there... Tou should be able to make the plates up with either your lathe or a plasma cutter like I did freehand.
Thanks for the pics Juskatla! I ended up using the same bearing splitter I used to pull the axle bearings off with, worked perfectly to install the seals. I guess I do catch a break every now and then... The old girl is officially mobile again. No funny noises from the transmission and it definitely seems to shift better. I'm anxious to get some hours put on and make sure all is good. I've gotta sort out a couple hydraulic leaks before putting her to work. The gland nut on one of the rear swing cylinders is the work offender right now. I'm hoping it just needs to be cleaned and tightened up, but I'll know soon enough.
good job