anyone ever replace the seals in the gov/ throttle assy. I have fuel leaking around the throttle link..
If it is a sleeve metering pump the pump and governor are full of fuel at transfer pump pressure and you just need to change the lever shaft seal. If it is a scroll type pump you've got problems with fuel getting past the injection pumps.
how do I know the difference between sleeve metering pump or scroll type? 1. took the throttle arm off. 2. removed 4 bolts took off face plate. 3. inside was full of fuel noticed large spring and arm with spring for idol screw. 4. removed idol adjustment bolt and spring. 5. was able to pull entire arm from throttle body. left over fuel poured from hole. . I know i need to replace the plate seal which would be easy. I also need to replace the next round seal inside the throttle body. How do I pull the seal out or does it push in from the inside of the throttle body which would require taking the body off the injector pump....so 2 questions...sleeve or scroll? and how do i replace the inner seal just behind the governor arm / idol arm?
Need more info to tell for sure......Tractor serial number, engine arrangement number and engine serial number to tell but appears to be the sleeve metering type pump. If it is the one I think it is the shaft seal is mounted in a thru bore in the cover. There is another shaft seal inboard that is in a blind bore hole.
ok got the 2 seals from Cat. "stands for collect another thousand" replaced 1 in gov face plate then while removing inner seal i heard a clink. tried to put throttle arm back in housing and it wont fit. used a punch to align what ever is inside housing and i was able to place throttle arm back in....Is there anything that could have dropped into housing or was it just the inner arm dropping and i was able to put it back in place with the punch. should i be worried?
Yes. I would be concerned. There are two levers and a washer on the inboard end of the shaft. These levers connect to the governor and you want to be sure they are in place. Looks like you will need to go deeper and remove the throttle lever assembly/housing to verify that everything is in place. You don't want to risk running the engine without knowing for sure that everything is there and operating properly.
where can i find a diagram? I have the military manual but it has a diff gov . I also got the one from cat parts but it is so small one can not see it and it has no clear drawing of the inboard side of the gov. was the gov designed to remove the shaft from the body while still on the machine and what would happen it i tried it out?
Tried to answer last night but power went out in the middle of posting.... I don't think Cat gives a hoot on whether you can R&R the seals in place. The service manual shows renewing the seals with the housing section removed. You need to have the correct service manual and parts book for your tractor. If you will furnish all the numbers I inquired about....sr. no., engine arrangement number, etc., I can scan and post the applicable stuff. (I think) The governor is your engine speed control and a malfunction or binding of linkage can cause either no rev's or a run away engine. Always a good idea to have the air cleaner off and someone standing by with a board or block off to cut off the air if things go south.
ok . now I get it....we dont need a runaway engine. rather be safe than really sorry.. by the way really appreciate the help.. ok the serial# 94n8370-----(3n25287?)----arrangment 3p7734----(4n880?) engine-3306 ( )= I have no idea what these numbers are relating. I really need to find material on removing the housing and re-installing.. I dont want to screw anything up in the injector pump housing or change the timing .. I didnt even know the injectors were timed until i got the seals... thanks again
Got a problem with those numbers...which is key to identifying the correct fuel injection model. Serial No. 94N8370 is for a D7F, 1974 model. Engine serial No. 3N25287 is a good number but the matching arrangement should be 6N484. I have the listing for all (3N)3306 engines in vehicles and an arrangement 3P7734 or 4N880 is not listed among them. Is this a transplant engine? Could be from an industrial application which runs a different set of numbers. (I don't have that listing).
trying to attach photo View attachment d7.pdf
ok the photo attached. this is similar to mine. this is what cat is using when they sold me the seals and gaskets. I have a picture on my phone but have no idea how to upload it. Can you send me what you have and what to expect when i remove the gov body. called cat and they advised could remove gov body from pump assy but it would be hard to reinstall the housing due to the spring and washer. they sent me a work sheet on removal and install but on a diff machine not even similar. I am picking up the gov body gasket tomorrow and would like to fix it this weekend. Any info you could send would be greatly appreciated. I hope this can be done without removing the entire pump assy
Let's see how this picture posting works. These are the correct parts breakdowns for the D7F serial number you gave me. I'll post some service manual stuff later if this works.
Well, not to bad, can't figure out why it doesn't center the picture.
not too bad for an OLD MAGNET. I really appreciate it. ok it sounds like the clink i heard was the washer in the 3rd diagram section cc part #3. Ok tonight i removed the 6 or 7 bolts holding the gov body to section bb (pump assy) . in the diagrams I noticed a shaft running between the 2 with 2 washers and a spring. I expect the spring to fall out. any other ideas of what might fall out? any ideas of how to reinstall the housing once the washer is put back in place. I have not seperated section b and section c yet kinda wanted to get all the information before i screw up again. I called cat and a pump repair shop today. The only help i got was from thompson cat who provided the diagram however had never removed the housing so could not give much info. they also sent a repair sheet on the gov housing but for a diff unit and the sheet was for the entire unit removed from the machine.. Glad we have this web site or I would be lost..... any ideas of what to expect or does your manual show steps in removing the unit. hope i can do it on the machine. Ever tried it?
No, have not had the pleasure of removing the governor housing.....however I don't see any reason why it should be a problem. May be a bit fidley to put back together but you have the diagrams of how it goes together....just keep track of the parts. Service manual has no instructions on removal other than do it with pictures. There is a ton of info on all the various versions so I have pared it down to the throttle shaft parts. This site program has a problem with not loading attachments in the same order they are posted in.....not my doing.
the last diagram is exactly what i needed. it appears the shaft going into the pump housing from the gov body just slides into place may have a spring that pushes on lever #9 that surrounds the shaft that i may need to watch for. the last diagram is the best . where did ya find that...? does it have a view from the pump housing side? I am going to give it a try tonight or tomorrow
I'll post one more pic later today....got to get some work done. Think you really have enough info to get it done. The mating of the housings doesn't look to be that big a deal. Info comes from an assortment of sleeve metering manuals from my library. Even if you had the D7F Parts manual at that time Cat did not have the engine info included. You have to go to the 3306 Vehicular Engine manuals 3N series for the parts and yet another Service Manual to get assembly and dissassembly info. When you get to the D7G series the engine info was back in the Parts Manual.
thanks again. cat terrified me when i went to get the gaskets. advised if i screwed up I would blow the motor. advised one wrong placement or debris in the housing would be catastrophic.. " we will see" famous last words
OK, here is the extra views, including one looking at the pump side. Not surprised at Cat's comments, some of them knuckle draggers think they are rocket scientists. What you are doing now is hardly challenging, just need the right information and proceed systematiclly. There was a time when Cat guarded their fuel injector information like it was top secret stuff, even on the older equipment, of which I am more familiar with. Wasn't until the internet that information got shared. I'm home all weekend and will watch this site in case you have a problem. Of coarse, keeping things clean and sanitary is a requirement when working on fuel systems. Go for it......remember the air block off option on start up....just good insurance after doing any mechanical work on the system.
Wow,All of this wonderful info about Cat dealers lack of knowlege from someone who has not seen one of these pumps. Good luck Bob
Speaking of knuckle draggers....and your contribution is ????????
Old Magnet, really appreciate the help and providing all the info. I know it was time consuming and you were not even making a dollar off the parts. ref> to the last post. yes, several Cat employees were helpful at Thompson Machinery Ms. and Tn. however CAT inc should have more parts manuals and DIY info on line. Like in my case. the machine was in the middle of a field and a simple repair with the right info. saved alot of money just in the transport fee or out of the area service call. will post final pictures to document the thread in case any one else has the same problem. placed the Gov. assy back togehter as described by OLD MAGNET manuals primed the fuel sys. and she cranked right up. THANKS AGAIN!
Glad to hear it was a success....was beginning to wonder when I didn't see any post over the weekend. I'm curious to know what you found?
exactly what you said I would find.....I will try to post the pictures from my camera (once i figure it out) took a picture of what it looked like when removed.....all the washers and forks just laying there ready to do absolutely nothing.....lol....
rhudson, I think Cat in general are top at helping with any service tech issues, the C'o that is crap is JCB, most often in the U.K. you are very bluntly told to clear off, they let nothing out, the sad thing is it restricts new sales of their kit as lot of people are sick of this stance, I know they sell and make JCB products in the U.S, I would love to know how things pan out with U.S. kit, credit to O.M. he is the Master at digging into Cat minefields, he just needs downloading onto a C.D.
pictures did not upload in order. second to the last picture was after i cleaned up everything and put it back together other pictures were when it was removed. just as O>M> advised everything fell to the bottom when the shaft was removed.... job complete. total cost < than 30.00 plus free training and knowledge which is priceless. thanks again
Great pictures.....where do I send the bill. LOL
the man who has a hard to find manual?????? heck, I would be willing to pay. thanks again really alot of help. you should consider scanning the old manuals and sell cds. maybe this thread will help out someone else in the future. about to start another on a new exhaust.. when i finish my job around the farm someone will be getting a good deal on the machine. I have a bit of o.c.d so everything must be right .thanks again
New question very old thread. Had the injector pump rebuilt by cat. Local mechanic installed the pump and claims it’s in time. I ran it for about 2 hours and had minimal power and smoked terribly. Mechanics claimed it was because it had set up for 2 years. Got a second opinion and he said the timing was off. He reset the timing and it fired right up with perfect sound and responsive throttle. We went to shut it down and now it will not shut off. We had to smother the engine for the night and regroup. It shut off fine for the last few days until we got the timing right. What happened?
Hi, That all was awhile ago. Being that the issue was timing (if that's all that was touched) I suspect it is still a timing problem. Timing can be checked by placing timing bolt in the flywheel and the timing pin in the fuel injection pump. Must be timed to #1 cylinder @ top dead center.
We got it timed this time. Bolt in flywheel. Bolt in pump. Runs and sounds good. Went to shut it off and what ever flips in the housing to shut off fuel is not working. I can feel the bump from idle to shut off but will not cut off. Had to smother the engine. I have been looking over our past post when you showed me how to repair the gov. But for the life of me I can’t figure out by the picture what actually shuts the engine down. I backed the idle screw out hoping it was just not letting the lever fall forward but no luck.
Here is the shut down process in the governor.... Item 21 referred to is the sleeve metering shaft. Item 24 is the lever on the sleeve metering shaft. Item 25 is a pin on the lever.
What a wealth of information you have on these machines. I wished I had your filing cabinet downloaded on a cd. Thanks again. I guess **** off plunger further in the pump is not closing. It’s just hard to imagine such a problem being freshly rebuilt . Guess I will have to pay to have it removed again for a bench test...
We had a D7F 94N5165 that would do that on shut down. Had to put foot down on foot pedal, pull hand throttle back and slam it forward. It would cut off. I know revving the engine up is hard on turbo with a quick shutdown, but they did it for 15 years and never had any issues with the tractor.
I tried that too... decided to take it back off. Grrrrr. Send it back to Cat for a bench test. I was afraid if I opened he gov housing I would void the cat warranty.
Just found this old post. I have the exact same issue of leaking fuel out the governor housing. Have a few questions before I tear into it if you or Old Magnet are still hanging around. All the "experts" tell me I need to remove the entire pump to fix the seal. Thanks much, John
On what model tractor?
The tractor is a Steiger Cougar 1975 model with a 3306 PC ser# 66D1444 Arrangement # 3N8100. Governor and pump look identical to the one in this thread. Restoring the tractor so it has not ran in about a year. Put new fuel lines on it but that was the only thing done to the fuel system. When pumping the hand primer I got fuel spraying out from under the governor housing cover. Not just a drip, but a small stream shooting out the side. Local mechanic says I have to pull the pump and have it rebuilt. Found this thread and it appears the original poster had the exact same issue and was able to pull the governor and replace the seals without pulling the pump. Fuel ratio control removed in this picture.
No need to pull the pump. Remove the governor to get access to parts that fall off the control shaft when you pull it out. Replace the inner and outer shaft seals, they are both the same. I am assuming your leak is around the shaft, not at the cover gasket??? Compartment behind the cover should be dry. .
The leak is from the gasket around the outside cover. The outer shaft seal was leaking slightly when I got the machine so my mechanic replaced it. Now when I prime it it leaks from the cover gasket. In the picture below should this cavity be dry also? I only ask because if this one is supposed to be dry then wouldn't we also have to fix whatever is letting fuel into this cavity? I assume the seals we are talking about are on the shaft that runs horizontally in the image below? Also, what is it that looks like some kind of passage there on the left side just to the right of the hi and low idle adjustments? I greatly appreciate your time and expertise. As you can probably tell, this is all new to me. Thanks, John
OK, went back and reread the whole thread a couple more times. Think I got my head wrapped around it. Outer cavity dry, inner cavity with all the levers is at transfer pump pressure. There must be some kind of seal at the other end of the above cavity to keep fuel out of the fuel ratio control housing. Might be a good idea to replace that while it is off. Possibly #5 in the image below?
Yes, might as well replace #5 while your in there. The main cavity should be wet. Are you sure it's the cover gasket that is leaking and not fuel coming from the normally dry compartment which has the adjustment screws.
You mean the hi and low idle adjustment screws? I guess I am not 100% positive but it sure looked like it was from the larger cover. It was a stream shooting out about a foot. Even if this compartment was leaking and partially filled with fuel, would that cause the engine to not start? Thanks, John
If the leak is exceeding the transfer pump capacity and not allowing sufficient fuel pressure then yes. Engine would be hard to start or not at all. There shouldn't be any fuel at all behind the cover if the shaft seals are holding.
Sorry to bring this post to attention again...I know the seals are pn# 4N2786.... Is the gasket needed 7L0552?