Hi All, I am looking at buying a 1155 track loader with a terrible engine knock! This would be my largest project ever, I have built 7.3 Ford engines, smaller Bobcat/Kubota engines, Case skid steer/Cummins engines, and the like, but nothing this big. This engine sounds like it has a broken rod but the block is still in tact to this point. If I buy it I think I need to have it winched on and off of the trailer to keep from cranking it in hopes of saving the block. Would any of you have a link to a video of the engine removal on this type of machine? The machine looks to be in very good condition other than the engine, I don't see any oil leaks busted hoses or leaking cylinders. If I could get this running again it would last me the rest of my life on our family piece of land. All help and advice is appreciated. B-Crazy
Removal is fairly easy on these machines. Put the loader in the air and strut into place, roll bucket right back so it doesn't dump on you in mid air. Remove side panels and top hood. Remove the grill and X brace. Disconnect rad hose at the radiator, disconnect cooler lines. Now you can unbolt the hardnose and remove the radiator and coolers as an assembly. Now disconnect all wires and linkages from engine. Remove the drive shaft. Now you can pull this with the torque converter and pump attached or you can remove it, your choice. It's a little easier to wiggle out with pump and torque converter removed. 504 were bad for tossing rods through the block, don't run it any longer than you have to.
Thanks gggraham!!! That is great info and instructions! I appreciate your willingness to give an old shade tree mechanic a little of your time. It didn't look like it would be that difficult but I have a tendency to think things will not be that bad and jump into them wide open. That has gotten me into trouble a few times. So hopefully this means that I am getting at least a little bit smarter (asking before jumping straight in)! I knew that it sounded like a rod and as bad as it sounds I am very surprised the block does not have a hole in it. The owner and I are only $1000 apart and I have just made a counter offer so hopefully we can reach an agreement. I would hate to miss out on it but all that I can save on the purchase means I would have a little more for parts. The way it sounds I feel sure the journal with the broken rod on it will be ruined so which would mean a crank kit for sure. Would you have any recommendations on a parts dealer for the parts I will be needing? Thanks again! B-Crazy
I don't have anything to add to the tech part of this conversation but I'll put my 2 cents worth in on the depth of knowledge on this site. I find it simply amazing that people can post a question about things that are fairly detailed and not so mainstream and (most) questions get a detailed answer or even several answers in a couple of days. I'm guessing that this kind of response happens in all sorts of different forums and it really helps my opinion of humankind. Granted, there are some pretty grumpy responses but for the most part people seem to be free with their knowledge and experiences in order to help others. B-Crazy, keep us posted on how the job goes if you end up purchasing it! Does this machine have the high/low/reverse transmission on each track? I've been thirsting to try one of those for years! Jon.
Hi Jon, I have no idea about the high/low reverse. I know that it has several levers that I have no idea what they do at this time. I am hoping that I get the chance to find out. If I purchase it I'm sure you will see more questions from me on here. And I will update from time to time. Thanks for your input and I agree on the willingness of others to share their knowledge on this site. Thanks again! B-Crazy
For engine parts you cab try https://www.reliancepowerparts.com/ , then click on find a dealer. We have used their after market parts many times with no issues, much cheaper than OEM.
Thanks again gggraham! Let me ask another question, the 1155D I'm looking at is priced at $4800. I know the engine has to be rebuilt or replaced because it has a broken rod. The block is in tact at this point. The machine has no leaks, it does have some older hoses where the outside rubber has cracked but to this point they have not leaked. I know that just before the rod broke at least 2 of the cylinders have been repacked. The machine is a 1985 model but no broken and welded arms or anything and the pins do not look sloppy, so I am think it has not have heavy and/or abusive treatment. Considering these things do you feel it is worth the $4800 even though I know the engine has to be rebuilt or replaced? Thanks Guys! B-Crazy
The engine may not be that bad. If you buy it pull the oil filter and cut it open and see what is in it. Keep us posted! Terry
The out of frame kit for this engine is roughly $1500, a crank could cost about $1200. So for about $8000 you have a dozer with a good engine I'd say not bad at all. Now if you didn't do the work yourself then it gets expensive.
If I get it I will keep you Guys posted, and ask more questions I'm sure. What would I be looking for in the oil filter other than fine metal?
I would be doing the work myself except for the specialty stuff like head work and turning the crank. But I assume that is the way everyone does it unless they own a machine shop. We were only $1000 apart so I thought we would have already made the deal by now. I moved half of what we were off thinking he would accept that (especially as bad as the knock is) but he has not moved at all but said he will think about it. So if I want it I am probably going to have to pay the full $4800. I work a fulltime job but I figure I can take my time and build it in the evenings after work and have it ready for next spring. I don't have a deadline to get it ready as I will just be using it on our family land. I guess I just need to decide if I am going to jump in or not. It would make it a little sweeter if he would move on the price a little but I understand that he has it and I want it so he holds the trump or Trump card.
Copper in the oil filter is usually from a crankshaft bearing failure.
So by that are you saying that it is a possibility that the crank could still be good? Or am I showing my ignorance by even asking this question?
The crank may be good. There are other things that can cause an engine knock that are less serious.
Do you have any knowledge of the condition of the torque converter/transmission/final drives? You ask if it’s a good deal. Will it still be a good deal to you if you have to rebuild one or more of these after you repair/replace the engine? You also don’t mention the condition of the undercarriage, which is an important consideration. Don’t mean to be a downer. I am a fan of Case equipment and I like a good project as much as the next guy, but I have also been down this road before.
This might help. It's the 1450b dozer but might be the same engine. He has a three part video.
I do not have the knowledge level to answer these questions. I have talked to the guy actually running it (not the owner) when the noise started. He says everything was working as normal. If I have to replace something else after the engine HECK NO I would not consider it a good buy then! Been down this road before. Yes me too, too many times. I am hoping these people are telling me the truth about the condition of it. They seem like good honest people but I do know that some relatively good people will tell you anything to sale you a broken machine. Really with my lack of knowledge of these machines the only things I can judge by is: what I feel about the character of the people I am dealing with, and the fact that the machine is clean. It is not oily and nasty all over like machines that only have maintenance when something breaks and/or burst spraying oil every where. I don't see any welds where arms and buckets have been broken and repaired. There are no signs that it has been power washed trying to clean it up to fool someone looking at it. It still has the dirt piled up on the steps between tracks just like it was when they stopped working with it. It also has the 4 in 1 bucket and I see the cylinders on that have just been rebuilt. So I know he was truthful about that. I don't know for sure but the 4 in 1 bucket, if I had to buy it new would probably cost what he is asking for the machine. I guess if all else fails I could sale the bucket for a couple grand and sale the loader for junk. The junk weight price looks to be about $2500 and then a couple of grand for the bucket I would have most of the investment back. Certainly this would be a worse case scenario. HOPEFULLY it will not be that bad! But I have been there before. Okay enough for now. B-Crazy
Haha, thanks boone! I have already watched this very video trying to learn as much as I could before jumping in. Thanks for sharing that, it shows I was thinking on the right track! B-Crazy
Okay Guys, I guess I am jumping in! The owner and I have reach and agreement on price so I will be the proud owner of a broken track loader shortly. Hopefully I get it to my place and start removing bolts within the next week or so. Stay tuned I'm sure there are many more questions to come once the wrenching starts. I hope most of the wrenching will be on the loader and not on my opinion of myself for buying another machine! By the way we will not mention my wife's opinion about me buy more junk (as she calls it )! B-Crazy The wife says I am!
Make sure and keep us posted. I rebuilt an engine in a very similar Case crawler a few years ago. One of my co-workers once worked for a Case dealer. He told me "Make sure and replace the connecting rod bolts!" Apparently they can fail if reused.
That is good info, things like that are things that a shade tree mechanic like me could easily overlook. Thanks
Well I did it! I jumped again! I thought I would learn better than this one day but it seems I just cannot help myself! I am the proud owner of a Case 1155D with a terrible knock in it. As soon as I can get it delivered to my place I suppose the best place to start would be to pull the oil pan. I wish I could start turning bolts on it tonight but it is 20 miles from my place. I have the window of this weekend to get it here but not sure if I can line up everything that fast. If not it will probably be the week after next before I can get back to it. I have to work straight through next week the weekend and the holiday, so I am hoping to get it moved over the weekend. The hours showing are 9515 is this a bad number for this machine? B-Crazy
We did a complete engine in our Case W20C in 2005. 504BD engine, no turbo, 108hp. Someone had been in it before, and left out some spacers that locate the crank fore/aft in the block. The block was scored, crank ruined, and connecting rods ruin. It ran perfect and only had a small tick at first. One liner pinholed and that's why we tore it down. Case priced us the set of 6 rods for $4300, and a new crank at $4600. We opted to buy a complete reman engine, dynoed, with warranty for $11,250 in the northern US. One of the best decisions I ever made. Loader still running perfect today, loading topsoil and working strong.
I'm sure that is a good deal if you are using it to make money with. I will just be playing around the family land with mine so I would have a means to recover the repair investment. Other than my satisfaction of being able to build a road where I want it and cleaning trash that has been discarded over the years before we owned it. So I hope I get much cheaper than that. I guy I bought it from has a running engine he will sale me for $3K. If I get into this one and it is ruined I will probably go with the used engine for the $3K. This is a 1985 year model and I would hate to think of spending over $11K on it for a play toy! That would take all of the fun out of it for me! Thanks! B-Crazy
Good evening Guys! I have the knocking 1155 at my place yay! I have removed the hood side places, and the 3 belly pans under the front part of the engine. It looks like I will also have to pull the first belly pan right behind the frame crossmember to get to the back end of the oil pan. I didn't get to that one as it was beginning to get dark and I was glad I needed some rest. One question I have is, can the oil pan be removed with the engine in place? I certainly hope so! I feel I will have to pull the engine anyway because I think I will find a broken rod with a damaged crank. Hey but I can still hope that I am wrong until I actually see it. I made a short video so you Guys could hear it to see if you could give me ant pointers before I get deeper into this. But so far I have been able to get it to load but I am still trying.
I still have not been able to get the video to load but it is not the forum site, it is something about the video. It is only 34 seconds long but it still takes a long time to load in my email. Hopefully I will figure it out. However the more I listen to the video I am beginning to wonder if this is a dropped valve, and not a broken rod. If it is a dropped valve and not a broken rod with crank damage, I will feel that I have hit the jackpot!!!! For you Guys that have experience with these engines, when thy go down is it more often a dropped valve that a broken rod? Today is the Lord's day so I rest on Sunday but tomorrow after work I should be able to answer this question by pulling the 3 small valve covers. The suspense is killing me! Happy Sunday Guys! B-Crazy
I probably won't be much help on the engine, but maybe I can give a bit of moral support. Oh Ya keep us updated! O Ya don't forget the Pictures! I Also believe a wise man finds a day of rest, if he can find it restful and beneficial. I'm trying to make mine Tuesdays, so far I'm only batting 50/50 and I'm retired! Best Of Luck!
It could be a few things causing the noise. Is it miss-firing? What color is the exhaust? I have seen a couple engines have injectors fail and they really knocked hard. Cracking the injector lines one at a time I found which cylinder was knocking. Swapped the injector between cylinders and the knock moved to the other cylinder. You would have swore by the sound there was a serious failure. A new injector cured the noise. Pull the valve cover and make sure all the valve train is in good order. I doubt it will be a broken connecting rod. Maybe a failed rod bearing. The Case 1155D that I worked on had a long spiral electric pre-heater in the intake that looked like it could break off and drop into the intake. That would cause a knocking sound. Cut the filter open and remove the element. A tube cutter works well but a hacksaw will do the trick. Take a razor knife and cut a piece of the pleated paper out of it the width of your vice and about 3" long You want to see the outside of the element that is where the debris will be. Put the pleated paper in your vice and squeeze the oil out of it and wipe it off with a clean rag. When you loosen the vice the paper will dry up and you can see what is in it. Lots of copper is probably a crankshaft bearing. Post a picture of the filter paper if you can.
I'm just tagging along with the conversation, I myself own a 1155e but that has the 5.9 cummins in it, which I've rebuilt once. As for your shifting levers, if its like the E model, you have a high and low on each lever and also a reversing lever on each track, meaning you can shift one track in forward and the other in reverse and turn in circles, then you have a high low lever as well, meaning four speeds total. There a nice loader, not fond of the case 504 myself, but with a cummins in them, they're an excellent machine.
My brother (who is older than I and retired) says if you think you can't catch up before you retire don't think that retiring will help that. Once you retire everyone has something for you to do! I hope to find out one day in about 8 more years!
I've got to say "How did I ever had time to Work!" Then again I did Enjoy my past days of Working. I'm hoping you get a pleasant Surprise on your Machine, Something Like the injectors "like mekanik" said would be real Sweet! All the easy Tests is a good Idea before you get to a place of "Tear it Down". I don't know how to post a video but that would be an informing start.
Yes that would be sweet for sure! Man if could get that video to load I think that would be a great clue to you Guys that have years of experience with these machines. I am usually pretty good at attaching documents and pics but I have not been able to figure this one out. I guess I will have to wait until one of my adult kids to come see their old daddy and they can probably fix it right up!
Exhaust color, gray. I pulled the valve covers today, all valves seem to be in tact. No Pre-heater on this one, I guess we don't need them in NC, so that would not be it. If you just bump the starter it cranks so I guess the compression is good which would probably rule out the dropped valve I thinking that it may be. If anyone knows if the oil pan can be removed while the engine is still bolted in the frame that would be a big help. Unless it is something like the injector you talked about to fix it the oil pan will have to come off. It just doesn't look like there there is enough space for it to come off while bolted in but I hope I am wrong. However if it is a bad bearing with crank damage the engine will have to come out to change/repair it. But I am hoping for a better our come. More to come tomorrow night when get time to play with it after work again. Thanks for all of the the info and advice
With the 5.9 cummins in the E model, the engine has to come out because of where the cross members or located in order to get the pan off, I've venture a guess the case engine is the same, but I've never done one before with the case engine. You might be able to unbolt the front of the engine and jack it up enough to get the pan off while still in the machine, but in order to do that, you'll have it 3/4 th disassembled anyhow and myself, I'd just pull the engine and torque converter and do outside the machine, sounds to me you need to go into the engine anyhow, that way its out and easier to work on. I've done a lot of labor saving ways over the years, only to find out, they usually end being more work than the work they were supposed to save. Just my two cents.
Good evening Guys here is what I did today after work. I pulled all of the injectors so I could turn the engine over all I wanted without any compression. There was no knock while running it with the starter. I felt this was a little strange because when i would bump the starter while cranking it the knock was immediate I assume this means I have a bad rod bearing. Does this sound reasonable to you all? It will probably be a couple of days before I can get back to it. At that point I thing I will lock the injectors back down one at a time until I find which cylinder is causing the knock. Then I should know where the bad bearing is. That way I can pull the head and the effected cylinder and make sure everything on the top end is fine before I jump on the bottom end. I was certainly hoping it would on the top end but now it is doubtful that I can repair the engine without going to the crank. Which also means I will have to pull the engine. I was hoping for an in frame rebuild on it but I don't see anyway to do that now. B-Crazy And Have fun a little!!
B-Crazy sounds to me as you have done some good trouble shooting. "I know Zip about engines." Too bad an in frame isn't a choice for you. I wonder why they don't design all frames with that in mind. I suppose it would increase costs and not help sales. Work on getting some getting some pictures posted the suspense is Killing Me!!! Best of Luck
B Crazy I would bot bother putting the injectors back in. Cut the filter open and remove the element. A tube cutter works well but a hacksaw will do the trick. Take a razor knife and cut a piece of the pleated paper out of it the width of your vice and about 3" long You want to see the outside of the element that is where the debris will be. Put the pleated paper in your vice and squeeze the oil out of it and wipe it off with a clean rag. When you loosen the vice the paper will dry up and you can see what is in it. Lots of copper is probably a crankshaft bearing. Post a picture of the filter paper if you can.
Good evening mekanik! I know to an experienced heavy equipment person as yourself you will think this is a funny question. But try not to laugh too hard, remember this is my first BIG machine and as of yet I do not have a shop manual. I want to be sure I cut open the correct filter so is the primary filter the front or rear filter? B-Crazy
Can you post a pic of the filters?
Good evening Cat, I hope these pics come through good. I don't consider any of them to really good pics of the project but you can see my new toy.
B Crazy none of the pictures cane through.
Well it is obvious I don't know much about sending pics on the forum either! Well let me try it this way!
Okay it looks like I have to download all of the pics before they will show up. I don't consider any of these good pics but at least you can see my new/old toy.
Here is more!
Here is more!
Was there anything in the filters?? I didn't see a photo of those cut open.
If you find one cylinder that makes noise it may be localized trouble especially if there's not much in the filter.
Good evening Guys! Well I learned a little more today. I took mekanik's advice and did the filter paper in the vice trick. That is a cool trick! Thanks mek! I had asked which one of the filters, forward or rear, was the primary filter because I wanted to cut open the one with the most metal in it. The truth is it doesn't matter on this 1155 because there is just as much in one as in the other. I certainly thought there would be more in the primary than in the secondary filter but I could tell very little difference. I am not sure how much copper is too much but I am going to venture to say that there is way too much in my filters. I am going to try and post a few pics the filter paper and the metal and I hope they come through good. I noticed the last pics I sent posted more than once (rookies on this site like me ). Hopefully these will not post more than once, I'm sure that must take up much data storage space of some kind. If there are any site admins checking on this post please feel free to help me out and delete the duplicates (I realize you do not need my permission to do so but I wanted to volunteer it anyway ). Okay let try for the pics! The first pic is a normal size pic showing the metal particles shinning in the sunlight. Pic two is the same metal particles magnified many times, sorry I don't know how many times because my smart phone was not smart enough to tell me that. Or I was not smart enough to know where to look on the smart phone for that! Pic three is a normal size pic (no magnification) of the biggest metal particles also a master pad lock key for size reference. I hope you enjoy! B-Crazy
I would say from the pictures that you probably have a crankshaft bearing failure. There is only one way to tell. The engine needs to come out and apart.
With what I learned today, posted above, I have come to the realization that the engine has to come out. There will be no in frame fix for this one I am looking the crying emoji now but I don't see one . Now that I have reach the realization I had enough time before dark to remove the ROP extension (I guess that is what it is called) the part that goes form the ROP to the radiator housing. I have it laying on the top of the ROP but I am not sure you will be able to see it in the pic as it was almost dark when I finished tonight. But all of this extra fun is almost too more than a chubby, bald headed, old man can bear after working an 8 hour shift on my regular job and coming home to play with his every afternoon. And that is not to mention that I don't have any lifts of a boom truck to help with all of this fun. Anywho I just thought I would share a few words and a couple of pics with you all tonight. Thanks for all of the help Guys!
Yes that is what I have been afraid of the whole time. But I am now headed in that direction now. I knew when I bought it that this would probably be the outcome but until I saw the metal chucks I was still hopeful even though I know I am never that lucky. Hey but buying the machine for under 5-K I am still please with where I am at the moment. Hopefully I can remain that way until I get her back up and running.
That's a lot of metal in the filters. I just hope the damage isn't too bad and the crank and block can be saved. Myself I'd do some investigating to find out if the torque is the same as in the Model E machines, and swap that case 504 out for a 5.9 cummins that you can get parts for today and into the near future.
I will try to look into that. Thanks
Hi Friends, I got a little closer today as you can see in the pics. I was able to get the radiator housing with radiator, hydro oil cooler and hoses all attached removed this evening after work. My S185 Bobcat lifted it up very easy. I had to cut a couple of the large bolts off with the air grinder due to the heads being rounded but other than that it was pretty simple. I just hope I find enough space above the engine and below the loader arms to lift the engine out with my B-cat. Have a great evening Guys! B-Crazy
You are Inspiring B-Crazy. You've really put in a lot of work in such a short time!!! I sure Hope your Blessed with a good block!! Rest Well. Best of Luck
Are you planning on pulling the torque and engine together? Unless a s185 has far more lift capacity than I'm thinking they do, I myself would opt for a different plan, especially if your alone.
Thanks Cat! I'm sure I will need those blessings some time in this process!
Good morning Randy, I am thinking I will not pull the torque converter with the engine. Also I plan to strip the engine of everything I can while it is still sitting in the machine, heads, pullies, oil cooler, etc. This should help with some of the weight and clearance issues. I understand this is the prime ideal setup but being an old country boy (with good common sense) and mostly working on a shoestring budget I have been known to conquer many situations that people said I don't think that will work. That being said this is my biggest machine to date and I am very aware that gravity pulls much harder on these machines than a Briggs and Stratton engine . I am not totally alone my wife is usually very close by because she thinks I'm a little crazy too (so I guess B-Crazy fits me to a Tee) I digress, so I do have someone to call 911 if need be. (SURE HOPE I DON'T NEED HER HELP WITH THAT ONE)!!!! But I am certainly not taking you concerns light heartedly! I am not a "know it all" when it comes to these machines. I am much closer to being a "know nothing" than a "know it all" in the BIG machine category! Therefore I keep in mind that the potential for injury is high if I am not thinking each step through. Thanks for your concern! Well it is off to work for me today, I am Manager on Duty this week and on Monday the holiday, so I am the lucky one that gets to spend these days with our seniors (I work in an upscale living community) and I count it pleasure to serve the "Generation of Hero's" many of which fought to keep America FREE and SAFE! More to come tonight after work and a few hours to play with the machine. Have a great Guys! B-Crazy
Go rent a bigger machine, like a backhoe, to lift the engine out. Then strip it down later.
Good evening Lindsey, I have a John Deere 310D but it is at my brothers place about 3 miles away so I can go get it if the Bcat will not do it. I pretty much have it stripped down, I started on it around 4:00 today when I got home from work and stuck with it until dark. So sometime next week I will get around to trying to pull it.
Good evening Guys, I was able to get a good amount done after work today! The heads look good, the top of all the pistons look good no damage there or in the sleeve walls. The number 4 cylinder was not firing but that could be a bad injector or a bad valve but I did not see anything obvious that was wrong with the valves. Once I get it all torn down and if the block is good and I can find all the parts for the build the heads will visit the machine shop. I originally thought it was a broken because the knocking was so bad but all of the pistons go up and down so the rods are still connected to the crank. When I rock the crank back and forth at least one of the rods has play in it because the at least one piston does not move immediately when I changing direction with the crank. With the amount of play in it I doubt the crank is salvageable but we will see once I get it out. As long as the block is good and the parts are available I will be in good shape. If not I guess it will be plan B, which is buy.ing the running engine for the guy I bought the loader from. I can get that for $3K but I will still have a used engine, I prefer building this one. That way I will know what the engine is when I put it back in. I am posting a couple of pics but nothing earth shattering. One shows engine with heads removed. The other is the flywheel plate showing a few of the many bolts in it. I am assuming these bolts are holding the torque converter to the flywheel. Could you Guys tell me if that is correct? I thought these bolts would be a larger diameter if they are the torque to engine bolts but there are several of them and I already have about half of them out. Talk soon! B-Crazy
Those look like the bolts that fasten the flex plate to the flywheel, on the c and e model machines they are either 5/16ths or 3/8ths, I'd guess the same size that bolts the torque to the bell housing. Again if it were me, I'd remove the torque and engine together, far easier to both remove and reinstall than separate, but do as you wish. I'm guessing you don't plan to have the torque converter checked over, new bearings and seals even??
If you separate the flex plate from the flywheel there is no risk of damaging the seal on the convertor shaft. As Randy said you may want to service the convertor-- and install a new shaft seal.
Time and Money, I sure Wish I had more of Both! When I had a Choice I picked Time. Time to spend doing the Things that are the most Important. I just Wish I was better at Knowing what those Things are! Best of Wishes
I am going to pull them separate. I don't have a deadline for getting my play toy fixed so the is no time issue or issue of holding up a person that works/makes his living with his machine. That way I will not have to be as concerned about the weight. It is a good idea to do the seals in the torq. I had not thought of that at this point but hopefully I would have, thanks for the reminder! Are the torq bearings something I can replace or is that a machine shop item? Thanks for the advice!
Hi Tink! If I am understanding this correctly, the bolts I am pulling separate the flywheel from the flexplate. The flywheel will stay with the engine just like a car or truck and I assume the flexplate will stay with the torq. That will separate the interior components and once I unbolt the two housings the engine be ready to pull, (I have already disconnected all cables, hoses, exterior components) I am correct in that? I am familiar with pulling engines, transmissions etc. but I have not played with a loader torq before. I know all of you guys that can do this is your sleep think these are silly questions. And they are for an experienced person but if a few silly questions can keep me from breaking something more that would be worth showing my ignorance on this subject.
Yes, you are quite correct. If you leave the flex-plate bolted to the convertor, you eliminate the need to center the flex-plate on the convertor when they are re-connected. It is important that it is centered. The best thing about taking the flex-plate off the flywheel is that you can do a careful inspection of the flex-plate for cracks. It is common failure on a high hour machine.
Hey Cat I think we can all agree with that for sure! It is funny how the time slips away from us. Long gone are the days when I thought I knew it all and nobody could tell me any different. Now I realize how little I really know and I have forgotten some of what I did know. They say hind sight is 20-20, it may even be better than that for hard heads like me.
Good morning Guys! I haven't pulled the engine out yet but I am very close to trying that, maybe even later today after work. I have another question for you all who know these engines well. The web searches I have done on a crankshaft for the 1155D/504 are all showing a crank for the 1155E. Can you all tell me if there are still cranks available for the machine that I have which again is the 1155D/504. Also if you could share a little about the difference as far as the 504 engine goes between the 1155D and the 1155E. Thanks! B-Crazy
Good day to you B-Crazy! When you pull the engine watch for shims and what corner of the engine they belong to. You may also need some horizontal alinement when it goes back in. I don't know if its true for this machine, but it is for others. Best of Luck
Um, I believe the 1155D had the Case 504 cubic inch motor. The 1155E has the Cummins 6T-590 or possably a 6T-830. But with any older machine someone may have swapped out the 504 and put the Cummins in it. OR vice versa.
The 1155e came from the factory with the cummins 12 valve 5.9, the 1150e dozer models came with the cummins 8.3 rated at the exact same hp as the loader models with the 5.9. There is a turbo on the 5.9, the 8.3 is naturally aspirated with no turbo on them, I own both e model machines, have for over 20 years now. I've never seen an E model machine of any age that came with a case engine in them, not saying a really early year version might not have one Tennaco was trying to use up before switching to cummins, not sure what other countries had in that model either, maybe case stuck something else in and shipped them overseas somewhere. As for your crank in the 504, if you want to spend money on that engine, I'd start by asking your local machine shop what they can get for parts, [don't think case offers much anymore for parts on the 504] I'm sure they'll want to see your crank first to know if they can or can't grind it to spec. If it were mine, I'd take them all the parts, have them looked over, heads, block, crank, cam, rockers, oil pump and all the rest to assess if its worth fixing at all. There's no sense in taking in the crank, either grinding it or finding a good one, if your heads are junk and the cam's shot and those parts aren't available either. I'm sure a pump shop can look over the injection pump and injectors as well and give an idea of cost to fix them and check them over. I'd have all the estimates in hand before I gave much of any go ahead to actually go through them. You can also check with some engine rebuilders, to see if by chance they have a complete rebuild sitting on their shelves to find out what that cost is, also if they'd be willing to buy your core and if so what its worth, or maybe trade your core in on a rebuilt 8.3 or 5.9 which would be ideal in my opinion.
Thanks for the FYI Cat. I didn't find any shims so I don't know if that is a good thing or bad.
Thanks for the info Tink! This gets more interesting all of the time!
Good morning Randy, You Guys have so much knowledge and it is awesome that you all would take the time to share it with hard heads like me! I will give an update below, but I pulled the engine yesterday after work. I certainly didn't need to be worried about an in-frame rebuild, the crank is broken in half but I didn't find any other damage other than possibly the rod on the #4 cylinder where the crank is broken at. I don't think there are many hours on this engine since it was rebuilt. the engine is clean as a pin inside, the pistons and rings look almost new, without an gum or gunk even in the oil rings. I don't know about the diesel engines but on a gas engine I have never pulled one down that didn't have some gunk in the oil ring. It is early in my check over of the components of the engine but the early look over shows few hours. The two crank journals I looked at last night show the rods were turned the thousands and the mains were turned twenty thousands. In your opinion what would cause the crank to in half one an engine like this? Full update with a few pics coming later this morning. Thanks Guys B-Crazy
Crankshafts sometimes break for no apparent reason. Not all 504's used the same crankshaft. I would recommend that the main bearing journals in the block be checked for the possibility of being out of round as result of the broken crankshaft. The same with connecting rod journals. That broken crankshaft could have done bad things before it was stopped from turning. IMHO.
Guy Guys, what's up this morning? I was able top pull the 504 out after work yesterday and pull the pistons out just before dark! My dad, my brothers, and myself were always workaholics and my Mother has always said that God made the night time so workaholics like would know it is time to stop working and get some rest. So I am still following God's time table on that, even at 61 I know when it gets dark I need to stop. I thought I would gotten smarter than that by now but as I have already admitted "hard headed"!!! I hope you see the comedy in some of my statements. Below are a few pics, I have already covered some of this in the reply to Randy, Tink, and Cat above so I will try not to bore you to death. Short story: Bobcat S185 lifted the engine with power and lift capacity to spare. Removing valve covers and heads gave me the room I needed between the top of the engine below and loader arms and cylinders above to squeak it out without any problem. I was really worried about having enough space to do this with the skid steer 4-1 bucket still in place. I don't have a skis steer boom if I owned one of those I could have pulled it with ease which the engine was still fully assembled. I could have purchased and if I was planning on doing this much I would spring for one. But as I mentioned early in the story I am working on a shoestring budget to get this play toy going. Crank completely broken in to two pieces. All other items look good, no other damage found. Engine has been rebuilt, the rod journals were turned .010 thousands the mains .020 thousands looks like not many hours since rebuild, engine extremely clean inside. Even oil rings are clean without any deposits. I have never seen that before in any engine I have disassembled. Not sure what I will do at this point, I may end up buying the running engine the guy I bought this loader from. I can get it for $3k and be playing with my toy before long. Any way i look at it, it will take more than $3k to get this one up and running. My only concern is, if I build this one I know what is in it. If I buy his I have a running engine but it will still be a used engine that I have no idea of its history. I my decision I have to factor in my shoestring budget. My time is free to me and this is not something I am tryin to get running to make my living with so that plays in the equation also. Thoughts, Ideas? B-Crazy
Pistons removed.
Very good advice Tink! Thanks!
B-Crazy I enjoy your Humor Very Much!! But then... I don't fined the Funnies Funny witch may make my Judgement some what Tainted. I thought you were 30 to 40!! With all this Energy. You must be Blessed and Wise because you know when to Quit!! It's Great to see a mane Enjoy his work Soo Much!!! I worked mostly on Large Machines in my days at the Power Plants. Most every thing was Hard Bolted to the frame and Aliened to close specs. Tinkerer saw no reason to recenter, I will bow to his experience. But I remain Perplexed. B-Crazy have a Very Fine Day!!
Crankshafts can fail from metal fatigue over time. Since the crank was ground to .020" undersize I suspect there was a bearing failure and the heat from a previous bearing failure may have effected the hardening of the crankshaft causing it to break. I have only ever seen two engines that did not have counterweights on the crankshaft. One is the 504 Case and the other was a Ford model T engine and I have had a lot of engines apart in the last 46 years.
Hey Cat, I thought I was the only one that didn't find the funnies funny! But now I see there are at least two of us. I am with you, I'm not sure what that says about or judgement or my mental state! But I don't do sitcoms either that the rest of the world seem to be crazy about, they are a waste of my time. I would much rather have grease on my hands. Power plant? Tight specs? So your background is working in the perfect world. It must be nice! I only wish I would have been smart enough in my younger years to have prepared for something like that. (There it is again, my hard headedness bites me in the bleep again!!!) With these type machines most of the time guys are working in the grease, grime, dirt and muck! I have done a lot of working in the dirt and grease but I do not claim to have earned any of the stripes that these well experienced guys on this site have earned. I know just enough to be dangerous and I am not smart enough to know that I can't do these things so I keep doing them. Thus the signature B-Crazy!
Hi Mek, Sounds like a good synopsis on broken cranks to me!
Okay Guys, While I am at a stopping point trying to decide which way I will go, I checked out the flex plate (as one of you mentioned above). I didn't truly understand what a flex plate was until I took hold of it and started flexing it. Oh my, I over thought this one. So I don't know if this is normal or not but mine consist of 6 pieces, 2 smaller ones on the back next to the torq. 3 of the large ones in the middle. and 1 small in the front next to the engine. See pic below. All of the 3 large ones are cracked so which ever way I go back with it, it will have new ones. I hope these can still be found for this model. I am having a little trouble finding a crank, but I am still looking. I have a few days off for working the weekend and the holiday so I get to play extra hard this week! Goody, goody!
Still looking the crank, have one dealer that is supposed to call me back tomorrow. Just thought I would show you the water pump , I don't think a certified mechanic installed this. Or a certified shade tree like me . This must have been install be a jackleg. !!! It is amazing what you can find after washing down a loader engine with a hot water power washer! See pic below and enjoy! B-Crazy
Huge mistake made by using that much RTV on the water pump. No need to be perplexed Cat977. What I said was that leaving the convertor bolted to the flywheel eliminates the need to recenter them. If they are separated it is then critical to recenter them. Bobcat Crazy; call Dale Wiess for parts questions.No one knows more about anything Case than Dale. He is a second generation Case dealer now retired from the dealership but still selling new OEM and aftermarket parts. http://www.e-backhoeparts.com/
I'm really enjoying following along with this Project. The Wings of Experience and the Humor and Hard Work of B-Crazy!! I am still in a State of Perplexion on this Drive Train. Most small Tractors use the drive train as the frame is this Similar?
Hey Tink thanks! I will try to hit him up on the email address you listed. I would not know how to call him.
Okay, okay I clicked on the link and it took me to his site. Man I am some good at speaking (or typing) before thinking.
Hi Cat! This is an 1155D track loader, but I feel like you already know this, it weighs about 30,000 lbs. I'm not sure what you are asking, but it may be because I don't know enough on this subject to understand. This is nothing like a farm tractor but I think I'm missing what you are asking. Thanks! B-Crazy
Hi Ya B-Crazy!! I am probably not asking the Question well. Is the Engine bolted to the torque converter, then TC bolted to the Transmission, then trans, bolted to the Bevel gear box, then BG bolted to the final drive. Basically then the frame is attached to this Drive Assembly? My machine has a drive shaft in it. The Cat 955 has a spot with flexible pucks but they are out in the open. Your flex disk is hidden and seems like it would be very had to center without using shims under the engine ect..... A bit of a silly question really, just curious. Keep going on the Hard to do stuff B-Crazy! Your Smart Enough to ask Questions! You have a Fine Evening!
Cat, I am not sure I know enough to answer your question. I have not dropped the belly pan behind the torq so I can't tell you if mine has a drive shaft or not. It seems I remember someone mentioning dropping the drive shaft in the earlier parts of this thread as they were talking about pulling everything together but I have read so much it could have been something else I was reading somewhere. I went back early this morning while I was waiting for it to get light and skimmed through the whole thread (I woke up at 3:30a and couldn't go back to sleep) but I was looking for something else so I don't remember seeing it this morning but it could be in here.
Hey Tink, I did check out the site and it said the crank was on backorder. I called and didn't get anyone but they had probably already closed for the day when I had the chance to call. I did get a quote from another company I had contacted through email yesterday, (I don't know if I can say the name on here as I am not sure how that works with this forum site). The quote was for the crank, the bearings, and a full gasket and seal set for just a little over $2K and they said they can have it to me in 3 business days. That sounds very reasonable to me so I will probably order that in the morning. The crank that comes from this company will be turned .010 on both rods and mains, so I feel pretty good about that. One company said they could get the crank but the crank alone was almost $2K from that supplier. With the tax and shipping it would have been over 2k for just the crank. Needless to say I did not pursue that one. I will still order some other items from Dale as his site looks like he will have access to about anything else I will need. Thanks for telling me about him!
Cat I just dropped back to the beginning and it was gggraham that was giving me the quick rundown of how to go about pulling the engine. According to him it does have a drive shaft. For some unknown reason I was thinking the torq and pump powered everything through hydraulics. I guess that was just something I dreamed up out of the blue. I do suffer from creative thinking some times, I guess that is one of the times I fell into my own way of thinking.
That is How "I Think" most all are powered now, at least the Loaders. No Torque Converters just a pump for Hydraulics and one for Hydrostatic Drive with a Hydraulic Motor on each side, the plus is Counter Rotation! The Crank and parts don't sound Too Bad. Do you have a dial indicator?
Good morning Cat! No I do not have a dial indicator. I assume I will need this to time the engine is that correct? I saw timing marks on the crank gear and the cam gear but I didn't see any marks on the injector pump gear. They could be there but I doubt because they were not easily seen so I doubt there are any. I have timed engines for years over many of my ventures so I realize the importance of correct timing. Every time I built a new/different type (to me) engine I have to research the proper way so as not to kill a newly rebuilt engine. I can usually order things like the dial indicator from the internet, so if you have a site link for a good one I would like to have it. I have ordered a parts manual that should be here any day now. I still need to order a shop manual before I start the reassembly. If you have a link for that I am open to that as well. Thanks! B-Crazy because I am and most of the time it helps me take day to day life without getting overcome by things I can do nothing about ! It is kind of like: "You don't have to be crazy to work here but it helps if you are just a little Crazy"
It looks like Ebay has some service manuals for your machine.
Well yes I'm a little Crazy among other Things. I Love to Laugh and will make Myself the Target of a Joke if I think it Funny Enough. Look close at that Injection Pump Gear I would expect some kind timing marks or maybe you put in a locking pin. Regretfully you probably Know more about Engines than I do. bam1968 !!! has a good Idea on Manuals, I like Originals because the printing is better than after market ones. Ebay has been the best place for me to find one, but get someone with a lot of good reviews and says and looks like an Original. A dial indicator may be handy later. If your curious ahead of time Google (Soft foot on machines). If that Engine didn't have rubber mounts it causes me to wonder.... Best of All the Luck
I'm Glad to Hear of a Fellow that stays Positive as he Walks this Life +++. Good to hear you are getting a manual before Reassembly B-Crazy, I'll Try to help. You've been getting some Real Good Help!!! from some of these Great Guys on This Site!!!. So anyway While you are waiting for Parts.....I can Truly see how a damaged crank, with no counter weights and ground .020 under can easily break. But I Truly can't hold back from Any and All Reasonsones Why it Might Break, and what is the evidence for failure. I am out of my element on these machines!! So you Guys that Did earn your Stripes please forgive me!!! Alinement!! Proper unstressed alignment is what kept my job easy over the years. Yeah getting all the sizes perfect or close was important, but it was alinement was what kept the machine running for the long hall. I was Spoiled, used computers and latter Lasers. The Problem I was thinking of is Soft Foot mainly. Easy check with a Dial Indicator. You can get somewhere with a feeler gage. No shims under the motor causes some concern. Unless it uses rubber Mounts. B-Crazy I love Your attitude!!! I'm going to Run out in My Mind for a Little Bit, Please give me a little Grace and I'll settle back in my place Soon. The Flex Plate is like the Flex Disc's couplings I used on High Speed Couplings (Those before me.. Faulk Gear Couplings). I used a Altra Flex where I could (they were much easier, cheaper, and more forgiving)( Those Before Woods). The Flex Disc was good in High RPM (with Great Balance) 5K, 7K ect.... They are soo Stiff They would about pull you into Horizontal Alignment before bolting down. They would Crack, Break, and Ruin your Equipment if They weren't Lined up Good. Now for Soft Foot!!! Even for Big Heavy Machines the leverage of a Bolt can Twist a Gear Case so Bad as to pull the bearings, Gears, Crankshaft out of Alinement so Bad, You will Destroy it over Time. Even If Component to Component says the Alinement is Good. Say a Fresh Engine Rebuild is twisted in the frame so Bad it Wrecks the Center Crank Bearing and Nukes the Crank or over Heats it. Then you Add to that a stiff unforgiving Flex Plate. One thing that sounds good is it was running when shut down. Also without injectors it turned over freely. Of course it did open up after the Crank Broke! Can't say What Happened, But I sure Hate Fixing something Twice!! Keep that Good Attitude B-Crazy
Hi Cat, Yes I been getting great help from the Guys on this forum. The knowledge you all share is priceless to a shade tree like me! I may or may not know more about engines than you do, that remains to be seen. But all of this soft foot and alinement stuff you are talking about, I can tell that I am not even close to being in your ( Cat )egory (little play on words there) of knowledge base. I am pretty good with a wrench or a ratchet but when it comes to the really technical stuff I can't even get to first base! The engine and torq housing do have rubber cushioned mounts so I think I will be good on that part. The bearings: with the exception of those which were on the #4 connecting rod (which was only rubble in the bottom of the pan), all mains and rods look really good. The thrust bearings look like they just came out of the box. I cannot believe how good they all look. If I had not taken these out myself knowing that the crank was broken into two pieces I would not have believed it. They must have stopped this engine as soon as it started making noise. I pulled the sleeves today and they are in like new condition as well. I think I will have an awesome engine once I get the parts and get it back together. From the looks of everything in this engine I don't think it had many hours on it after the last rebuild until the crank broke. It did have enough hours on it to be caked with dirt, dust, grease and even some gravel! There was pieces of gravel even between the engine block and the injector pump. So it was run a good amount to be that nasty but compared to the relation of the total hours I feel it was minimal. Anywho I have all of the parts and block washed and cleaned (it is amazing what a hot water power washer set on 200 degrees can do). I have even started the painting of the block getting it ready to jump on when the parts come in. A couple of pics below. Enjoy! B-Crazy!
Now if I can only gets some parts delivered!!!!!! Nice! If I do say so myself!
Thanks Bam! I looked on there some today and sent a few questions to the seller I liked the most but so far I have not heard back from them. So hopefully I will hear from them tomorrow and get this ordered and heading my way just the same as the parts.
Hey B-Crazy what you Lack in experience you make up with in Shear Work Power!!! Hot water sure is a Working Machine. The Main Power Plant Was bought from the Hudson Motor Company and Reassembled complete with most of the old Coal handling equipment. At U.W. Madison. Mix that Coal Dust with the Oil and Grease and you Learn to Love HHot Water!!! You Have the Right Pressure Washer! Our 1st step Water/Condensate is 160 deg. and in the early days before the Hotsy I just ran that in an Old School Pressure Washer. They don't build them like That Any More!! But Hot Water is the Cats...... A** for getting the black stuff Off!! Nice Looking Block you have There!!
Good afternoon Guys! A little update and just a few pics. Most of my parts have been ordered, I am chasing down a few miscellaneous items, new flexplate and such but Dale with Tractorstuff http://e-backhoeparts.com/ is working on that! I have everything (engine wise) cleaned and painted (see pics), I am winding down on the project for a few days. Waiting on parts and after this weekend I have to return to working for "THE MAN" so my progress will be much slower as I will revert back to just working on it a few hours each evening after work and on Saturday. Yes I am still resting on the Lord's day (Sunday) but I will be hitting it hard other wise! Check out the pics attached, it remains to be seen if I am talented enough to reassemble and make this engine run. But hey if it never cranks one time I can look at it and say man that sure is pretty paint I put on it! Enjoy the pics! B-Crazy
Few more pics!
Just 2 more for now!
Hey B-Crazy a couple thoughts beside just Wishing you Well!! Maybe look at what it takes to check the Alinement Engine to Torque Converter Since the Flex Plate was Cracked. Also Some of these old Radiators can get pretty Plugged, With that Hot Water and some Kind of Rod you May Prevent some Trouble. Have a Good Weekend!
B-Crazy all the open connections on the fuel pump need to be cleaned and covered. The same with the injectors and the fuel lines. One speck of foreign material gets in there and you will have a problem. The spray holes in the injectors are less than 0.010". The same with the oil passages in the block they need to be surgically clean. The oil cooler needs to come apart as well. There may be bearing material in it. If the oil cooler core has turbulators in the tubes you may be able to take them out and clean the core or it may need to be replaced.
I will see what I can find on the alinement and I had not thought about the radiator. Thanks Cat!
Good evening Mek! I have cleaned the oil passages in the block. A hot water pressure washer cleans the inside of the block including those passages so good you could eat off of it. And then plenty of high volume compressed air until there are all dry and it should be fine. I plan to clean all of the openings/connection points tomorrow and scrape down all of the gasket mating surfaces. The oil cooler was something I didn't know needed to come apart, I will disassemble it tomorrow and clean it as well. Speaking of the fuel lines, pump etc. I found something that concerned me today. From day one when I went to look at this machine I was impressed at how good all of the pins and bushings looked. They all look tight with out anything that looks like they would be sloppy like most older machines are. Ever who ran this machine was good with a grease gun. You don't keep pins and bushings in the shape these are in with hit and miss greasing. Unfortunately they did not take the same care with the fuel system. I removed the glass bowl and strainer from the hand primer today to clean it. It was totally full of dirt, rust, and other debris. When I say totally I mean full to the top of the bowl, it had not been cleaned out in years and was so solid I had to break it up with a screwdriver. See pics below!
That looks like rust from the fuel tank and being filler from rusty Tidy Tanks. It wont hurt anything as long as you keep the filters clean.
The flex plate alignment should be fully covered in the service manual.
Hey Guys I hope you are doing well! I am waiting for parts to arrive so I am kind of at a holding point. I found one item that I need someone's help with. The tach drive assembly is one thing that I can't see how to remove. I have to remove it to get the cam out to replace the cam bushings. There is a threaded bolt hole beside it which could be used to tighten down a retainer fork (kind of like what used to hold the distributor on a car or truck engine). However it does not look like the bolt hole has ever been used and I do not see any type of a retainer fork in the parts book. The off brand service manual I have (It is not a great version ) does not mention anything about how to remove the drive assembly. See the pics below, 1 from outside and 1 from the inside of the block. If one of you help me with the proper way to remove this so that I do not destroy it taking it out that would be much appreciated! Thanks Again Guys, B-Crazy
Take a small pin punch and gently tap on the bushing beside the gear. I bet it has an O-ring holding it in the bore.
I made a puller for them by drilling the center out of an SAE bolt. I used the bolt in a piece of flat stock with 3 holes in it, and used two jack bolts to pop it out. Don't damage it because a new is $405.00 + tax ! The image is a new one available thru a CNH dealer. The proper size bolt should screw into the assembly. Unless yours is different from the smaller block Case engines I have worked on.
Hey Mek & Tink, You Guys are so AWESOME! I think I can figure it out from there. I knew you Guys would have some experience and/or ideas on this! I also figured this piece could be expensive just as you stated above, I am certainly glad I asked. I would have never thought about drilling out the center of the bolt that is cool thinking! Thanks again for the guidance! This thing is killing a stack of Bens already, so if I can save 4 or 5 of them by not breaking small expensive parts like this I may have enough left when I finish that I can buy at least one hamburger and FF meal. Even though I will have to split that meal between me and the wife! B-Crazy!
I posted photos and dimensions of that puller for a HEF'er a long time ago. I'll look in my shop and see if I can resurrect the puller and take some photos of it.
That would be cool thanks Tink! B-C
Here ya go B-C !!
I don't think this screen was designed this way ! That doesn't keep much out of the oil pump and engine. Now it is like the age old chicken and the egg question. Did the large hole in the pick up screen allow something to be sucked into the engine that caused the engine failure? Or did the metal bearings parts running around in the oil pan cut the screen after the bearing went bad? I vote for the latter. On this one. I still don't know about the chicken and the egg!
Well the engine begins to look better once you start adding new parts. Even though I am still waiting on several parts to be delivered, at lease I received crank and the gaskets so that I could put the heavy part in. That new crank resting in place with the mains torqued down, turning smooth, and the new back seal being in place makes me feel better.
Okay my new sweetheart is resting and waiting for more new parts to arrive next week. Hey if you guys don't tell, my wife will never know where these tops went! I told her she needed some new ones! I guess this is one way to help her get started shopping for new ones. I was tired of these colors! Hey they are nice thick top and they make awesome mechanic rags!! B-Crazy
Alright Sweetheart you can rest easy now. I have more new parts coming next week that will make you feel so much better and hopefully get you mostly buttoned up next week in the evenings. Next weekend I am manager on duty so I don't guess I can work on it next weekend. When I am manager on duty that means I have to work 7 days straight, but if I'm waiting on parts I guess it is a good time to work so I will have a couple of days off the following week. Hopefully most all of my parts will be in by then so I can really roll with my sweetheart after next week! Just to be safe I put the big pan over everything just in case the wife happens through the shop. If she finds those tops in the engine she will not be half as happy as I am about that. Also if she finds them in my new sweetheart I may not live to see sweetheart run again!!! And who is the Boss at my house? Well of course I am the Boss at my house, and I run things here too just like I want them run! The vacuum cleaner, the dishwasher, and certainly the washer, dryer, and etc, etc.......... I hope you enjoy my humor tonight!!!!! B-Crazy
Be sure to shim the oil pump correctly to get the it's drive gear and crankshaft gear backlash to Case specs. Too tight or too loose will be a disaster ! Do you have the service manual ?
Hi Tink, Yes I now have a service manual that I bought off line. I would not say that it is the greatest that I have owned but it will do. I have just today purchased a dial indicator from amazon and it should be here tomorrow. The old pump had 6 shims under it so I assume to shimming should be similar but who knows if it was shimmed correctly? I don't for sure. I have already read the manual on the setup/backlash measurements on the oil pump and the injection pump. I have never used a dial indicator before but I'm sure I can figure it out. Thanks again for trying to keep me on the right track! B-Crazy
Tink, I assume this is a 3/4 bolt with a thread pitch of 20. I know the thread pitch from my pitch gauge in my tap set. The local hardware stores here do not carry a bolt of that size and pitch. Did you have to order the one you used or did you find it at a local supplier? My tach cable was toast so I cut the end off of it and tried to make a tool similar to yours using that piece when I could not find the correct bolt locally. I braced the threaded end from the cable to a coupling nut so that I could screw a bolt into it and then set it up like yours. Mine is in there so tight that it pulled the braze joint apart, and it still has not even wiggled. I work in a bigger town than where I live so I will try to find the 3/4 X 20 bolt tomorrow before I come home, but if I can't find one I will order one online. B-C
You cut the cable housing. The tach cable core is still available from CNH dealers. I purchased the bolt at Fastenal. I had to buy a bag of them. It was the only way they sold them. It is a wheel lug bolt. You don't need a dial indicator to set that backlash. Although that is the best way to set it. IF you are experienced with feeler gauges the correct blade works quite well. I usually cut a piece of the end off of the blade. Not the entire end. Just enough off the side to be able to get the blade between the gears. It doesn't matter how the pump was set to the old crankshaft. You have shim it correctly to the new one. Ideally a new pump should be installed along with a new gear, if it doesn't come with one on it.
Tach cable housing was beyond repair, had a hole in the side of it and the cable part was worn into two pieces. TractorParts has one on the way. I have some old lugs laying around I will check on those this evening or tomorrow. Cool advice! I had one injector that was stuck in the head really bad and the lug nut from my Bobcat S185 was the same thread as the line connection threads on the top of the injector so that made a nice size hunk of metal so I could get a prybar on to get the injector out. (prying in the correct angle of course) I am a prime member with Am*z*n so I can return the dial indicator for free! I am much more comfortable working with a feeler gauge. I am certainly "old school". Hopefully at over $500 the oil pump will have a new gear on it. If not what is another hundred or tow at this point? Who said that ? was it me saying that ? I am looking all around and I don't see anyone else typing on this computer so it must have been me ! Somnething must be wrong with my thought process today!!! But really if I get this thing running and all the other components are in working condition it will be worth it and I will be able to play with this toy for years to come no more than I will run it. But if I get back together and everything on it needs repair I will have an 1155D with a newly rebuilt engine for sale that needs work on other items! Wow I sure hope that is not the case! If it is I will truly Be Crazy!! and not just what I am called on here!!!! B-Crazy
Oh MY !! Thank you for brightening my BCrazy !!! That has to be the most informative and humorous post I have read in a long time. I figured you were "old school" like so many of us on HEF. I don't believe for even a second that you will ever part (ooops wrong word !) sell your money pit. Unless your wife murders you ! Messin with her tops is flirting with disaster. Thanks for explaining about the tach cable, I was worried about your sanity for a bit.
I meant to type--- Thank you for brightening my day BCrazy !!!
Lots of Fun Following this Thread!!!
Looking at the pictures of the crankshaft, it is plain that the failure started at the fillet of the main journal. Most likely the fillet was not profiled properly after grinding the main journal undersize. This sharp corner created a stress riser which developed the crack.
I'm glad you Guys get a little laugh out of this. Sometimes people do not get my weird sense of humor. Hey we may as well have a little fun at this right?
So we have all kinds of people on here from Crazies like me, that just don't know they can't do this kind of stuff, too all you Guys that really know the technical side of things like Sealark here. No Matter what it is or how technical it is there is someone out there that knows what happens with these machines when they go kaput!
Okay here is the installment for tonight. Thanks to Tink for the idea of how he built his tool (pics of his tool are on page 6 of this thread) to remove the tach drive assembly I was successful in building my own and I finally got that sucker out tonight and it was really in there tight. I searched and searched for a bolt that would fit the threads where the tach cable housing screws into the drive assembly but never found anyone who had one. So lets face it, not only is Tink smarter than me he it more resourceful as well. My tach cable and housing was toast so after spending many hours looking for a bolt I finally cut the end off of the cable and used that to build my tool. Tink almost flipped out when I said I cut the end off of my cable housing but that was before he understood that my housing was toast too and not just the the inner cable. Once Tink understood that it was no good before I cut the end off of it he forgave me for killing the cable housing and let me back on the site! only kidding (on letting me back on the site/forum ). I will post pics of my tool at the bottom but I can tell you right up front that tool is not as classy or as sexy as the one Tink built but het it worked just the same. When I looked at the cost of replacing the cable and housing at $170 as opposed to replacing the drive assembly at $405 it was a no brainer. And being mine was already beyond repair I has to spend the $170 anyway. Okay I am posting my pics below but don't be laughing at my roundabout way of building it because it worked just the same and I already had the items I used in my garage, other than the time I spent looking the bolt that I never found my parts were free. The steering puller I used after cutting one side off was toast as well because I had killed the thread in it by abusing it while pulling the cam gear off of a Cummins 4 cyl in a skidsteer so that tool had well paid for itself already! Have a great night Guys! B-Crazy PS. My wife has still not found out I used her tops for grease rags on my new Sweetheart. That is soooo funny! as long as she does not find out!
I certainly am no smarter than you BCrazy ! Your drive puller is as good as they get ! I am wondering if you need a new tachometer. A new one at a CNH dealer will bring tears to your eyes when you see the price. PM me your wife's email address !! Keep us posted on the rebuild progress. Do you have camshaft bearing removal/installer tool ? I have a machinist make mine. The last one I had made was only $20.00. I had it made 3 inches long so that I could scribe a straight line on it. I put the center of the bearing oil hole on the line. Then I would look down the oil galley and put that scribed line in the center of it. Guaranteed perfect alignment of the cam bearing oil hole when I pulled the bearing in with a long piece of all thread. Nothing is more frustrating than to install a cam bearing only to look down the oil galley and only see half the bearing hole ! I am sure you know this, but there some inexperienced folks reading this and it may help them.
I appreciate the vote of confidence Tink. My smarts are yet to be determined I haven't tried to crank Sweetheart yet! If it needs a new tach I doubt it will get a Case brand. Bad on pocketbook! There will be no wife's address sharing until Sweetheart is running and these tops are long gone I was born at night, but it was not last night!! Do you have any pics of the one you had made? It may be better for this job that the store bought one that I have. It sounds like it is. You Guys just continue to amaze me with he things you are teaching me. Tool design, old school mechanic technique, which is the only kind I know anyway! Thanks!! B-Crazy
Hey Guys, Oil pump question, see pics below. I'm sure I can change out the extra pipe connector on the new oil for the plug on my old pump which will make the new one identical to the old one. Am I missing anything? I assume the new pump with the 2 pipe connection fittings is just for a newer model than mine and the pressure the pump makes will be the same. Is this correct?
Hey Tink, I checked out the tach today with my battery drill and a short piece of the chain/inner cable which was broken. The tach seems to work fine, my drill runs 600 RPMs in low reverse and 2400 RPMs in high reverse. I ran it a couple of minutes each time and it turned freely and smooth so hopefully it is fine. Thanks for mentioning it I had not thought of checking that until you mentioned it. B-C
Well I received two more parts today. A replacement connecting rod for replacing the one on the journal where the crank broke. It was only a couple thousands out but I was afraid to reuse it. But @ $342 I'm glad I only needed one. And a flexplate at $225. The good: the connecting rod was the correct part and is already installed on the piston and ready to roll when I get to that point. The bad: The flexplate is the wrong one and has to be returned for the correct one . See pics below for the difference.
Ordering parts for an old machine is sooooooooo much fun!!!
B-C nice to hear about your progress!! I was thinking that flex plate was made of multiple disks? I look at that one and it looks pretty thick and ridged. How thick is the right one? If its a stack, could you stack them and take a few pictures at a couple different angles? As Always Best of Luck
Hi Cat, Here is one pic I took of the old flexplate components. I will take some others when I get home today. The new (wrong) flexplate has two layers riveted together where the nuts are attached (see in the pics above) at every other (outer) bolting hole which makes it appear ridged like, however there are only 2 plates. I would say they are a max of 1/16 inch total, but I can measure it to see for sure. The old flexplate has 3 layers which are not riveted together (see below) and they are almost paper thin. I will say that the total thickness of it is 1/16 inch or less as well. And then it has the 3 smaller plates (pictured) which I assume they are to add an extra amount of rigidity to the center (inner) bolting area. Thanks, B-C B-C
Sure looks like a very unforgiving ridged coupling system. What's good no maintenance! I very much didn't like the cleaning and regreasing of gear couplings!!! This type can handle a little angular/tipped miss alignment. Its parallel/straight centerline that's important. If all the housings were turned true, the alinement would be set automatically. If you have to adjust the location of the housings it sounds like a hard job. In my opinion you would need to drill and pin it to keep in place then. If its hard to get the bolts in the flex plate to engine B-Crazy you may have some trouble later. I assume the bolts are perfect size in size (1/2" bolt in 1/2" hole) and perfectly located. Anyway.... I don't think you plan to turn it into a money maker so close should be good enough. Best of Luck
A flex-plate between a flywheel and torque convertor helps the balance of the engine. I would think that the end play of the engine crankshaft is somewhat prevented from being transferred to the torque convertor. IMHO. I have never seen bolts that are a tight fit in the flex-plate holes. The torque convertor should be turned slightly in the direction the engine turns it and held there. before tightening the bolts. That is done to help the alignment of the assembly. Especially when BCrazy has a stack of plates.
I agree on helping balance the engine, I would think its like an additional fly wheel with kind of dampener because of the flexing of the plates. I really love this type of coupling when its character works well in the design plan. I like it in this application, but think when you have the engine out unless its like New replace it. The little bit of flexing over thousands of hours must make them brittle and be bound to crack and brake sooner or latter. Here's a picture of one We used in the Power Plant. There's like 8 independent laminations that make up the ring. The bolts have no threads where they go through the rings and have a snug fit.
Hey Cat, you had asked for some pics of the FP, I have just gotten back around to getting some more. I will post them below, I think I will have to post them on two different pages below because I have 7 of them and I can only post 4 per page. I have the old stack of plates clamped together with a pair of vice grips because they are are so bent up and/or wavy. If you look closely you can see the vice grips behind the caliper. B-C
And a few more FP pics. The first pic below is in inches, the other two are in MM.
Thanks B-Crazy I was curious how they looked stacked up. I'm pretty amazed at how they transfer all that Horsepower thru those skinny little plates!!! Keep up the good Work!!!
I also am amazed at this design. I could not believe that these little plates bolted to the flywheel with little 5/16 bolts was the transfer coupling for all of the power a track loader or a bulldozer has. I thought sure I was missing something but that is indeed the design. And it is well proven over the many years these machines have been operating.
Good evening Guys! I am still in a holding pattern waiting on a few parts and the machine shop but I need your help with something. As I am getting the miscellaneous items ready while I am waiting for everything to get in place for the reassembly, I was looking for the timing marks on the injector pump. I have the manual now so I know what I am looking for but the pump rotor (may not be the correct term) has 2 marks on it and neither look like a real factory mark. The first 2 pics below are of the long mark which I think is the right mark but if you look closely it is not straight like a factory make usually is. The 3rd pic is of the shorter mark which is deeper and more visible but it is not straight like a factory mark should be. I realize that in the pics none of the marks are lined up with the indicator mark, I had to position the rotor for best picture of the marks on it. Also neither of the marks will line up with the indicator mark when the rotor is at rest if you understand what I am saying on that. Any ideas how I can tell which is the real mark?
Only thepumpguysc can answer that question ! IMHO of course. I'll try and to remember to snap a photo for you of my cam bearing tool tomorrow.
Good evening Guys! Just a short update tonight, not much to tell, still waiting for heads, injectors, sleeves to find their way home for the machine shop. My cam bushings came in so I did make a little progress today. I have changed the bushings and re-installed the cam so it looks a little better. See pic below. Still a long way to go but not as long as when I started! Once the parts come home I hope the looks of the mostly empty block change in a hurry. I had little to do with the engine today so I spent so time getting the lights working so a little at at a time as they say Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was my machine! I am looking forward to knocking down some stuff when I get Sweetheart back together! B-Crazy B-Crazy
Hey Guys, I hope you are all having a good Sunday! I may have an issue with my loader (another issue that is). I was reading the manual trying to get a head start on some of the adjustments and things I might need to do once I get the engine back together and one of those items is the injector pump and ignition timing. My manual says the I should either have one of these two pumps (see below 1st pic). And the instructions say if you don't have the right pump to change it for the correct pump. However the pump I have is neither of the two (see 2nd pic below). My pump is a (see 2nd pic below) and the instructions in the manual say to install the correct pump if I do not have the correct pump installed on it. (That can be really expensive for a big boy toy to play around the house with)! I know the loader runs with this pump as they were using it before the crankshaft broke and I drove it off of the trailer and up on some crossties before I started the rebuild process. The manual gives me the ignition timing setting for each of the two pumps listed and they are different for each. So I have no idea how many degrees to set this pump at on this machine. Any of you Guys have any guidance for me on this one? All this may be questions for Pump Guy if anyone knows how to reach him. B-Crazy
Rotated for the pumpguysc !
I suspect the lower number is the idle speed times two for 750 RPM and the second number 1050 is the peak HP speed times two 2100RPM. If it was mine it would go back on. What is the timing procedure in the manual?
For the two listed in the book one sets at 29 degrees BTDC the other at 30 degrees BTDC and the line up the mark on the pump rotor with the indicator mark. The timing is pretty simple except for not knowing which is the good mark on the pump rotor and not knowing what degree BTDC to set for this pump. So if I understand what you are saying about the pump correctly are you saying that I should set the ignition timing at 29.5 degrees since the peak RPM seems to be 2100 which is between the two listed pumps?
One more question. I realized that the manual I have only covers the engine. I knew the manual was about 1/5 the size of the parts manual so I knew that didn't add up. Now I now the reason, only covers engine. Does the torque converter pull straight out like the one on a car or regular size pickup truck? There are no sign of any fluid or leak coming from it but if it is that simple I should replace it while I am waiting on the machine shop. Thanks! B-C
I would go with 30 degrees! Plus or minus a degree will make no difference.
Thanks Mek! B-C
The torque converter is a self contained unit it does not pull out like a truck. If it's not leaking leave it alone. and reinstall engine.
Thanks Coy! That sounds good to me, there was no sign of leaks when I pulled the engine. That told me the torq seal and the rear main engine seal were both good. (the engine seal being a moot point as all of that is new now, but I was surprised the housing was dry). And being the torq does not pull out like a car or truck, I am glad to let that sleeping dog lay, if I wake that sucker up he might bite. Positive # 2, Tinkerer said he likes the idea and that is good enough for me. B-Crazy
Good morning Guys! I need a little info, namely the specs for the heads on the Case 504. I did finally get the sleeves back this week so I have the pistons in, oil pump set, all of that stuff torqued down to specs and hope to set the oil pan later today. That is if I have time after finishing the "Honey Do List" !!! I will add a few more pics of the progress soon. The heads have just a little bit of fire ring wear and the machine shop would like to shave them. However they are a mainly a Cat dealer, shop etc. They are everything Cat so they have asked me to supply the specs for the Case heads. Head Specs 1. Height- max and minimum measurements 2. Protrusion- Are there any specs on the valve protrusion? If any of you have these from a trusted source or know of a site I could get them from, that would be great! Thanks Guys! B-Crazy
Good morning BC I don't have those specs right in front of me but they should be in the "service manual" in the engine section.
Bcrazy ; I was wondering how you verified that the oil holes in the camshaft bushings were correctly positioned with the supply galleys when you installed them. It appeared in one of your photos that the new crankshaft is installed but the camshaft isn't. I'm just curious. Did you measure the protrusion of the sleeves after they were installed ? It is very important that they are within specs.
Haha, the funny thing is the manual i bought off of ebay or amoz as only a partial manual, so it does not have the spec section (rookie mistake) However I think I have found a source that can provide that info. Thanks!
Hi Tink! Camshaft bushings- It was a pains taking process! Th top hole was easy you can actually see down the very small drain back hole from the top of the block. It is a little tricky to get your light in just the right place but it can be done. The bottom holes were a little harder but you can somewhat view them if you put those in before the sleeves go in. However it is possible to miss them even if you are being very careful. I am not calling any names but I know some (Crazy) guy that had to put 2 of them in twice to get them in the right place. Once I got them in I checked them with a piece of wire with a short 90 degree bend on the end to verify I had them installed correctly Sleeve protrusion- Yes I went by the book on those. It is kind of strange but my piece of a manual had that info in it. Go figure!
Okay time for a few pics. I hope you enjoy my...... Now who knows if the engine will ever run again. But just look at how of a cup holder the 504 makes. Just keep looking at the pics below. You can choose from 6 different holes and at least 3 different heights. But of course it is a little expensive compared to your common un of the mill cup holder. But then again if you fix up one of these everybody and their neighbor will not have one just like yours!
And here is Sweetheart again with her bottom pan all torqued down and ready for the final flip. And maybe installation soon after that.
Hey BC your engine is looking good, even though it's the wrong color lol. Also remember when you go to put your heads on be sure to install the water manifold and exhaust manifold to align head before your tighten and torque them.
Good afternoon Guys! I feel asleep in the early morning hours when I posted the pics above before I finished posting so here are a couple more pics of Sweetheart. I have made the final flip and she is sitting right side up YAY!!! I am glad to get that part behind me, I am working with limited equipment so the flipping of Sweetheart is the most challenging part of this build. Sweetheart is like my wife she has gained a few pounds and I don't handle her as easily as I did when I carried her over the threshold 40 years ago! It will 41 years next month as long as she does not read this post where I mentioned something about her weight! If she happens to find this post she will make to the anniversary date but I may be pushing daisies before then. How did I get off on that? I don't know sometimes my mind works in strange ways like getting my 61 year old body in trouble because my mind still thinks the body can do what it did when I was 20. So the mind leads the body into doing things I used to and the body just cannot keep up with what the mind says body can do! I thought that the body would stop allowing the mind to get it into so much trouble but I guess the mind is smarter that the body and body keeps doing what mind says. The mind is going to kill the body sooner or later! Sorry I got off on a tangent there! Back the Sweetheart and the pics. So here are a couple of pics showing that I did but the oil pump in before the oil pan went on. Sweetheart is so cute with her pan off and showing how clean her oil pump and crankshaft are! And then the next pic shows that Sweetheart is more beautiful than ever with the final flip being completed and waiting for her 3 crowns (I mean heads) to be set!) And speaking of 3 heads I bet Sweetheart can be like a 3 headed monster when she gets an attitude! Man I am full of it today I just can't stay on track ! Well the ain thing is I hope you Guys get a laugh or two from reading my crazy posts! See pics below. Hey Coy thanks for that tip! I would not have thought of that. Tips like that could really keep me out of trouble.
Coy, You are correct this is Cat yellow! I could not find the Case color locally when I started the painting part of the project. I don't know if the Cat paint will make it run better or worse, it depends on your preference I guess. I have a Case because I fund this one at a price I could manage so I have a Case preference. If I had found a Cat at a price that could manage I would have a Cat preference. So just the luck of the draw for me I guess.
I have another question or two. See the pic below, the rod bearings are .010 over which shows on the new rod bearing box. However the rod bearing is stamped 0.25 I have built many engines in my time but this is the first time I have had bearings with such a strange stamp on them. When I saw this all work stopped for a few minutes until I mic-ed them and found they were the same as the ones I took out which were also .010 because the old crank and been turned also. Can one of you Guys explain why the bearings were marked this way?
One last question for today (I hope). The manual says that there are two different engine ratings. One rated at 2000 RPMs and one rated at 2200 RPMs. The injector pump is not the correct pump for either of these two rated engines. Is there a way to determine what the my engine is supposed to be rated at other than the injector pump. Or is the injector pump the only difference in the two engine ratings? Thanks Guys! B-Crazy
You did prime the oil pump when you installed it?
Did you plasti-gauge the bearings ??? That .025 would have been a red flag for me. Especially if the crankshaft is .010 undersize. The engine rating is how many horsepower is developed at any given speed. As long as the high idle is at least 2000 rpms you have nothing to be concerned about. IMHO!
That's 0.25mm =0.010inches. Bob
Thanks for the info on the pump Tink. That kind of technical stuff confuses me. But it does not take me to do that. It was a big red flag that is why I measured them. It does not say 25 thousands which would be .025 I would have known that was certainly wrong. Look at the pic again it is 0.25 the zero is in front of the decimal which means it has no valve. If the zero was behind the decimal it would be 25 thousands over. So I have no idea what the .25 means. Again they measure to the correct size with the micrometer. The rod journals are turned .010 under if the bearings were .025 over it would have locked up the crank and I would not have been able to rotate it. I couldn't make any sense of the measurement system they are using for it to be marked .25
Okay if that is true that would make sense. I said it didn't take much to confuse me. Thanks Bob!
Hi Mek! The manual did not say anything about priming the oil pump so I did not. I usually wind a rebuilt engine with the starter and really good batteries until I see the oil pressure gauge start moving before I actually crank it. I have always used a high temp good quality grease to coat the crank, rod and main bearings, the cam and cam bushings to protect those components during start up. I have never had an issue doing it this way. I am trusting this will be another successful startup when I ever get to that point. Thanks! B-C
Sorry, my brain isn't geared to think metric unless I see mm next to a number.
Haha me either. When I was in grade school they were teaching us the metric system because the USA was converting to the it within the next 10 years. Like the rest of the world uses they said. That was over fifty years ago and what we have ended up with is a screwed up system with a mixture of both. That is just another screwed up system created by the geniuses/elitist of this world. They are so much smarter than the rest of us that they screw up most everything they touch. And most of them work for the government if that tells you anything about the state of the good ole USA right now. And to think all of the freedoms which the "Generation of Hero's" fought for (and many of them died for) are being so easily thrown away by the idiots leading our country now! Okay, okay I will get off of the soap box now! Wow how did I get into that over a simple millimeter? B-Crazy
Hey Guys! I am looking the support washer that goes behind the flexplate on my 1155D Case, part # D32028. I have not been able to locate one and neither has Dale Weiss (THE CASE MAN) that one of you guys told me about BUT he has found everything else I needed. Is there a certain section on HEF where I can post something I need such as this? Thanks! B-C
Try www.brokentractor.com
Thanks Coy, I sent a request on their site. B-C
B-C Great to see you getting all that good help from the Good Guys from Case Land!! I think that Cat Yellow looks pretty Good!! Sorry just had to. LOL!!! Keep your head up the Parts will come. Best of Luck
Good to hear from you Cat! Yes I am getting good help from all of you guys! I finally got the head specs today, Weiss had to chase those down for me. Now the machine shop can finish the heads Woo Hoo! Now I can soon close up the top of the engine! I am still trying to locate a part called the support washer that attaches to the back side of the flexplate. It did not have the correct one on it when I took it apart. It had a what looked like the center section cut out of 3 old flexplates, I may have to use that when I put it back together but I would surely like to put the right part on it if I can find it. Obviously the last person that put the engine back in it didn't find one. Hopefully I will have better luck finding one.
PS. Cat, I was sure you would like the Cat yellow!
If you paint more and more of it that Nice Cat Yellow and add a few Decals could make a good conversation starter. Then again it could start a fracas!!! Probably best to just paint interior parts so Nice!!! Keep on Grinning
Bobcat Crazy, Was really enjoying the frequent updates and pics.....hope everything is ok.... maybe your wife found the dresses you were using to cover the motor…
Good evening Guys! Sorry I dropped in the middle of this I will try to get things caught up and started again. The reason I have been away is my dear sweet Mother, 92 years old began to have very serious health problems. She had an 8 day hospital stay during which they could not help her. She continued to get worse andwe brought her home with Hospice care. She has now reached the Home Shore and is now in the care of our Lord where she will never again suffer or feel pain like she did in the last 2 1/2 weeks here on earth. Also there are not sad goodbyes in that place where she is now. I long to see her in her youth again as she was when I was a child. Only you Guys that have lost a previous Mother can know how I feel. Now back to the 1155 story. I have finally gotten the all the parts back from the machine shop. The heads are fully assembled and torqued down and I have the valve covers sitting on top to keep any dust or dirt out of the engine. I have not fastened them down as the book says I need to check the rotators on the valves to make sure they are actually rotating when I first cranks it. I have been waiting and trying to find the ''Support Washer'' (Case part #D 32028) which goes between the torque converter and the flexplate. I have not been able to locate one form any source I have tried. Dale Weiss (tractorstuff) was able to get the print for the part from Case for me. I have gotten a lot of parts from Dale and he has been great to deal with. I sent the plans/print to a CNC shop to have the part made but the shop says the copy of the plans I have are unclear one thickness of the part. However just today they called to say the made the part in two different thicknesses as best they copy determine from the copy. Hopefully I can figure out which thickness is correct. When I disassembled it what was used on it the last time in this place is what looks just like the 3 layers of the flexplate disks only smaller. Each one of the 3 disks are about the same thickness as the flexplates as well. Those disks are pictured earlier in this post alone with the cracked flexplates which were well used. If any of you Guys have any insight on what this support washer is supposed to look like I would welcome any input on it. In the parts book I have it looks to have some thickness to it (just guessing from the drawing possible 1/4 inch thick but that is only a guess for the drawing which could be totally misleading. Below are a few more pics of Sweetheart while she was getting her new heads on straight . PS. No my wife did not find the collection of her tops that made such good grease rags as one of you Guys mentioned in your comments and was wondering if that could be the cause of my absences. However if she does I could drop off the page again until I heal up enough to type again! (If I'm lucky!)
Below are the pics of what was used in the place of where the flexplate support washer is supposed to be. It is the 3 small disks at the top of picture.
And just for fun, and for those of you who might have come to the post later in the game, below is a pic of the awesome grease rags I found hanging on the wife's side of the closet. I still do not know why she would keep such great grease rags in the closet. They were really had for me to find. Hey when you have the chance check your wife's side of the closet, she may have hidden your good grease rags there too. But if you get caught don't tell her that old B-Crazy told you where they might be!! Just because my wife had mine there does not really mean that your wife does. Hey but you know that they all talk about us when we are not around!
Usually there are some critical measurements needed to be made whenever new flex plates are installed. There should be a procedure for the R&R in the service manual.
I did some looking in my computer and found this for you BC. It is from the 1155D service manual. Notice what it says about the pin in the flywheel.
Thanks Tink! My off brand service manual didn't have this info. Hopefully I can set Sweetheart back in the machine tomorrow and get all of this stuff bolted in correctly. Thanks for the help Guys! B-Crazy
Here ya go BC ! The complete procedure for those flex-plates. Double click on it and you can view it with a browser or save as a file to a computer.
Hey Tink that was great! It was just what I needed to set the flexplate up correctly. AWESOME HELP!! I would say from the way it was when I took it out that the last guy that installed this engine didn't have this info, it was a 1/2 inch off from these specs. I have one other question about the flywheel positioning. I will post that question and a couple of pics right after this post. B-C
Good day Guys! I found one other thing I would like to ask about if you Guys have time. I promise I am not trying to take up all of your time or take advantage of your helpful nature. After I installed the flywheel on the crank I found timing marks on the rim of the flywheel. I have the engine at TDC, (on compression stroke) and facing the rear of the engine I have the pin on the flywheel (that goes into the flexplate) at about 11 o’clock so it is in line with the hand hole in the torque housing. I found the timing marks on the flywheel at about 9:30. For these marks to be accurate (I am not sure where the index mark they line up with is at) I must have the flywheel bolted on correctly (correct bolt hole in flywheel matching correct bolt hole in crankshaft). In the current position, with the front crankshaft pully on TDC and the timing marks at 9:30 on the flywheel it would be impossible to see these timing marks in their current position. This says to me that I do not have the flywheel bolted on in the correct position. Am I correct in this thinking or are these timing marks for a different purpose? Do any of you see anything in your manual about the correct position when bolting the flywheel on to the crankshaft. PS. Okay, okay I have learned my lesson about buying an off brand service manual from amozony or et-bay whichever it came from ! PSS. I may never get this running but if I don't, with all of the pretty paint maybe a loader mechanic shop will give me a few dollars for it to make a pretty sign out of it. Thanks again Guys!! B-Crazy Okay, okay Thanks Guys! B-Crazy
Looks to be some good careful work there BC! Keep it Up!! I'm real sorry about your mom. Glad to hear of your confidence of the Place she is going!! I'm sorry that I chuckled every time that manual came up. To all the future Crazys coming after you my Friend. Try to find a original manual if at all possible. I've found some good deals on Ebay if you have time to wait for one. I see you don't need too much Luck! You take the time to get it Right!
Hey Cat, It is okay to chuckle about the manual that stuck myself with, I laugh about it too so I can keep from crying.
I would guess that the dummy that had that motor apart the first time didn't punch mark the flywheel and crankshaft flange to insure that the two were reassembled in the same position that it was in when it was new. An engine could be out of balance when a flywheel is positioned differently than when it left the factory. No punch marks on them before dis-assembly is a big no no in my world. So, as result the flywheel may or may not be where it should be now. Did you keep track of the oil pump mount shims and check the backlash on the gear after you put it back on ? Perhaps others that know more about your 504 will post more definitive information for you.
The flywheel will only bolt on one place, there is a bolt slightly offset so it cannot be on wrong
I love it when a manufacture will take the extra effort to do things like that. Not to be counted on. When pulling apart machines of various types I'll use different arrangements of punch marks, punch marks by 2's and 3's run them 90 degrees to the split line, small chisel marks or number stamps. Be sure to flat file the machine face adjoining those marks its very easy to push metal into the face. I use a smooth mill file on all machine faces to check for raised places like bolt holes. Flat files are almost never flat use the convex side to the surface.
I didn't find any marks if it was marked they were not obvious. Yes I did save the shims and checked the backlash after I installed the new pump. Thanks to you Guys warning me of that. Plus it was one of the few things that poor excuse for a shop manual covered. Thanks! B-C
So they did make a fail safe gadget to keep dummies like me from screwing that part up at least! Nice! Thanks for the info Mel.
So it has finally reached the point of beginning to look a little better with ever few bolts that I put in. Who knows I may have this thing back together by Jan. 1/22 Or I may not the days are really short now when I get home from work so we will see hw it go. The good part is I have heavy Sweetheart bolted in the frame again (that is a milestone for me on this project) and I bolted up the flexplate today after work. Man that feels good! It does look a little different than what I started with see below just as a reminder.
Hey Melben, If you know about the crankshaft bolts being offset, maybe you can tell me what the timing marks on the rim of the flywheel are for. With the engine at TDC there would not be anyway to see the marks on the flywheel in that position. Are those marks for something other than ignition timing? Thanks! B-C
It is looking good BC ! I go brain dead every so often. I knew that those flywheels and crankshaft flanges have bolt patterns that make it impossible for them to be assembled incorrectly. But, like I posted earlier, I always punch mark them.
Cat sure was thinking when they Grabbed that Sweet Yellow Paint before anyone else did!!! Nice looking Work BC!!!
Haha, brain dead, I resemble that statement! Even to the point that I think sometimes I may have Dain Bramage ! It is funny how we do forget things sometimes when we use to remember them so well. I knew that most cars & small trucks that I have pulled/replaced engines in were designed like that. But as I have mentioned previously this is my first engine of this size and I was not smart enough to check and see if it would fit more than one position. How funny is it that the first position I placed it in was the correct one? Man I am good! I wish that were true it was luck this time. So this still leaves me with the question of what these marks are used for? Oh well, either it will not matter for this project or I will dig deeper when something does not work. I just hope it does not cause me to damage something, but with the engine in the correct timing I assume this would not cause that. In my mind these marks must have a different purpose but what did I say about Dain Bramage? Have a good day Guys! B-Crazy
I never thought it would stand out that much but it is not even close. The Cat yellow is almost the same color as the background color here on Heavy Equipment Forum, it makes me wonder if the creators of HEF are Cat fans or if this is just a coincidence! Yes my mind works in strange ways. B-C
It isn't too late to put the correct color on it, BC. In regards to the flywheel position when remounting it, is that a long time ago I was working alone, laying under a machine. I think the dam flywheel weighed 500 lbs. it felt like it anyway. I didn't have any index (punch) marks to line it up. I started out about as far off the from having the correct holes lined up that I finally had to suspend the stupid thing with a lifting device.
The timing marks for that engine are on the front crank pulley, btw, I always bolt the water manifold on without gaskets to make sure the heads are in alignment, I hope you did that. I have no clue what the flywheel marks are for unless the flywheel is used in another application
Other than maybe they just sold more because of the Great Color!!! Who doesn't like Spiffy Colors!!! I think they just sold more because they made Great Machines. More sales........... More chances for Fans!!! I'm a bit prejudice because I own a few. I like my John Deere 450C but at 1/3 the weight its just not as Cool as the 977. I like all Machines when they work and suit their purpose, all colors aside.
Yes it is always that way when you are working alone and laying under a machine. Or it is for me anyway. Usually there is mud involved too!
Yes I saw the timing marks on the front pully, my poor excuse for shop manual even mentioned those. It will take a little cyphering (as Jethro Bodene would say ) to figure it out as the marks on my pully are so small. The marks can be seen okay but not TDC, BTDC, or ATDC so hopefully I can figure that out. And yes I did check the alignment of the heads with the water mani but that was because one of you Guys mentioned it. I would have never thought of that without the tip someone gave here. B-C
Hi Guys! I thought I would give a little update. I haven't had much time to play with Sweetheart this week. And the the one afternoon I did get a few minutes didn't turn out very good. I think it was Thursday afternoon I had about an hour of daylight after work and I said man I can get a couple of components bolted on and I will be just a little closer to the finish line. I decided I would start with the oil cooler. Well as they say hind sight is 20/20 (or better). I wish I had started with something else. The oil cooler has 2 bolts that hold it to the block and the gaskets are just 2 rubber O-rings. I got everything ready to bolt on, surfaces cleaned, bolts cleaned, thread lock on the bolts, and O-rings in place almost. I noticed the O-rings were just a little larger in diameter than what I would really like them to be, but, so what, I can put a little sticky on them to keep them from slipping and they would squeeze right in place. I got everything snugged up and felt everything was good. Everything seemed to look like it was in place and I just needed to torque it down. I torqued the first bolt it is good to go I thought, I torqued the second bolt and at the last little twist I heard that little pop that all mechanics have heard at some time in their life which gives them that little sick feeling in the bit of their stomach. So with that little pop I am sure I just invested a few more hundred $$$ if I can even find this part to replace it with. I assume the oversized O-rings at some small point was squeezed outside of it's channel just enough to keep it from bolting up true to the block as it should. The 2 surfaces where it bolts up are made on in the block and the 2 legs on the bottom of the oil cooler are made in one piece so it could not have been a miss alignment of something one my part during disassembly and reassembly. Ole how I wish I had gotten 2 more O-rings that were the perfect size! See pics below.
No worries BC ! That can be repaired quite easily by welding it. When you reinstall it leave that bolt off, after tightening down the others. Then, get a set of feeler gauges and see if a shim or shims is need to prevent putting any strain on the mount. Or it may need a little careful filing if it appears to be too tight against the block. You will know as you tighten the other bolts. Always use the correct O rings on anything. No exceptions.
Thanks Tink! That makes me feel better, I didn't know if that was made of a type metal that could be welded or not. The feeler gauge tip is great too, if I had been smart enough to have known that I would not need the welder. Well maybe I would not have needed the welder, I knew better than to use the O-rings when they didn't fit exactly and I did it anyway. Hardheaded people like me just never seem to learn, or if I do, I learn the hard way. The good thing is that it can be welded, that should save those hundreds of $$$ I thought I had just spent. That brings a to my face!!!! BC
Good morning Guys! I hope you all had a great Thanksgiving and remembered to thank our Father for His mannnnnnny blessings! I thought I would give an update on how things are going. I was making really good progress on Thanksgiving Day since I was off work that day, until I had 3 exhaust manifold studs ring off. It was not due to over torqueing but the poor condition the studs were in. Oh heck yes, hind site raises its ugly head again , yes, yes i know now I should have had the machine that did the heads to replace them. But who things that the studs are going to ring off? Not me ! One was easy it rang off where the nut goes on and it came out pretty easy after I removed the x-man and I still had something to get hold of with some vice-grips. But the other two were the evil kind that ring off even with the head and have to be drilled out and re-tapped. Fortunately and unfortunately I have some past experience with that process ! But at least the x-man is on now with all new studs, I wasn't going to take it off again. That would have really shown a more than average degree of stupidity on my part. I am getting closer. I have added some exterior components to Sweetheart (see pics below). I could have added more components but I am waiting on a couple of items to come back from the shops they are at and didn't want to add too many things and have to remove some of them, as in ''getting the cart before the horse''. The oil cooler (that I cracked by using the wrong o-rings on it, even though they were the ones that came in the gasket kit for that purpose. I knew they were not exactly the correct size so i rightly blame myself for that one. ) is still at the welding shop hopefully I will get that back in the next couple of days. That one will not be that expensive so in the grand scheme of things it is not a biggie. But the other one the injector pump is going to lighten my pocket book when he gets that ready. The loader was running when I bought it but with the broken I could not tell how good it was running. The pump showed a couple of minor leaks so I decided to take it to the shop to have those small items fixed, I was thinking a couple of bushings and a couple of seals. So that will not cost much. Jack called me the next day (he is the injection pump Mac-Daddy in my area) saying that he could patch it up but it really needed going through to make it right. So that is another $2035. !!! Well if everything else is good on the loader I will be glad I spent that, but if it has other major issues once I get the engine (aka Sweetheart) running I will be pouting ! I guess the really bad thing is I haven't gotten this one running yet and I am already looking at another track loader I found last week! I guess the Crazy part in Bobcat Crazy is ringing true! View attachment 249313 View attachment 249314 View attachment 249315 View attachment 249316 Hey don't seem so surprised, I told you all up front hat I was not very smart and just can't seem to stop jumping in over my head when it comes to turning bolts and bringing machines back to life. The other machine is a 1997 Fiat Allis FL-145C. The engine runs good but it will not move. They say they think a filter may be stopped up. Yeah right!!! I was born at night but not last night! Should I ask question about the Fiat Allis on this thread or start another thread about it. I would certainly want to ask you Guys some questions before I got serious about buying that one. See pic at very bottom. View attachment 249313 View attachment 249314 View attachment 249315 View attachment 249316
To avoid confusion, it would be best to start a new thread for the Fiatt. I don't know how you are attaching the images but they go to an error page.
Okay I will try the pics again. And start a new for the other toy I am thinking about. Hopefully the pics will work this time. Thanks! B-C
Hey Tink, I hope the pics came through this time, for some reason they are showing up twice on my end. Computers? I love them when I am smart to use them correctly!
Nice job getting "Sweetheart" back together. Please run away from the Fiat, if you think parts for the Case are hard to find you'll be completely stiffiled with the Fiat. Plugged filter my behind, line know out Dmillers thread here. HeavyEquipmentForums Even reach out to him, he will tell you all the evils of his "Special Girl"
Wow that was heavy reading! I think I'll stick with Sweetheart and then cool my heels for a while and may be look for something else to come along that needs repair. I have enjoyed playing around with Sweetheart, the determining factor will be how everything else on her works when she has a heartbeat again. Hopefully that will be within a couple more weeks. B-C
Nice pictures of your progress, BC. I don't know why they are doubled up when you posted them. It happens to me quite often also. When that happens and you see the doubles they can be edited out. Open the edit function on the post and highlight the attachment. It will look like this ----> {ATTACH=full12345677{/ATTACH} Then right click on and hit cut or backspace to delete them.
Sounds good Tink thanks! B-C
Good evening Guys! I got a call from the injection pump shop today saying my stuff was ready, YAY! When I went to pick it up I almost needed 2 checks to pay for it! The total was so much there was almost not enough writing space to write it all on one! This guy as I said earlier is the injection pump guru in our area, he has been building pumps since he finished his training in 1964 and he can build them with his eyes closed almost. When you install a pump that he has built they are fine tuned and a new pump is not any better than one he has gone through. But he will forever more kill your pocketbook as he did mine today!!! He totally rebuilt the pump, he also cleaned, set pressure, and tested 5 injectors, and replaced one that I damaged removing it. I figured that one would have to be replaced but that was my fault totally. It was stuck and I worked and worked with it trying to remove it until I got it out. I should have waited until I pulled the head and then I would not have damaged it. Have I ever mentioned "Hind Sight"? Anyway the total was $2856. I am curious to know how that compares to what you Guys pay for that type work. I had certainly not planned to spend that money because it was running with the pump when I bought it. However I could not tell how well it was running due to the knock being so bad and the #4 cylinder (which was also where the crank was broken) was not firing. But when I pulled it down all of the other cylinders were firing and it would crank if I just bumped the starter, even with #4 not firing so I was thinking the pump was in good shape. But what do I know about injection pumps? Nothing , other than judging by how quickly it cranked even with one cylinder not firing. I wish I had waited on having the pump built until I saw how it ran when I got it back together and see if everything else worked on it. But that is spilt milk now and hopefully my feeling will not be still hurting so bad about that unexpected investment in a few days or weeks. Okay now that I have finished whining about how much that was I will post a couple of pics below of my new pump and it installed, which I am really happy about. Oh, let me whine one more time that pump cost me almost as much as the machine! Whine Whine! Later Guys! B-C
Good evening Gents, Maybe one of you could help me with the timing marks on the crank pulley. The marks are there but very faintly. I can't tell where TDC, BTDC, or ATDC is (see pics below). I even painted the pulley black and used fine grit sandpaper to buff it to help highlight the marks but still I can't see any thing but the marks. There is what looks to be a factory punch mark on the center rib of the pulley (I am pointing at it with my pretty little orange finger ) which I thought might be the TDC mark but it is too far off to be that. So I am kind of lost when it comes to setting the injection pump timing at 29 or 30 degrees. If any of you have better pics of the good marks on a pulley that is not worn as much as mine maybe I could compare the 2 to tell what is what on mine. Thanks again Guys! B-Crazy
Good evening Guys! I made some good progress on Sweetheart today. I finally figured out the timing marks, the manual said the marks were 0 to 15 degrees ATDC and 0 to 35 degrees BTDC. So I was able to count those out once I learned the layout of the marks. The punch mark on the center rib of the pully I mentioned above was close to where the timing sets but still a few degrees off according to the manual. I don't know if this is the original pully or not. It may have been used for a different application before it came to live with Sweetheart. (see pics below) You know a lot of have marks or scars on us from a previous time! Anyway I got my oil cooler back from the welding shop this morning so I was able to put that back on today. The welding shop owner did a great job welding it. He built it up pretty good on the outside for extra strength, and then I noticed he even welding it on the inside through the 3/4 inch hole. (see pics below) I was impressed with the welding on the inside. It is stronger now than when it was new. BTW, you can believe I bought the correct O-rings for it this time! The others were supposed to be the correct ones and they came in the gasket set. But it was clear they were a little off. However I certainly didn't think they would cause me to crack the oil cooler.
Also I was able to get the injectors in today and get all of the fuel lines connected. (see pics) I thought that I might get far enough along to hear it crank today but that didn't happen. Hopefully with a couple good evenings after work or another productive Saturday I will reach that point and I can see how Sweetheart sounds before I put everything back on her. I would not be telling the truth if I said I didn't like the way Sweetheart is looking with her injectors and fuel lines back in place again. I am also really glad to see that oil cooler hanging on the side of the engine block. I caused myself a lot of trouble and time loss having to wait on the welding shop to get to it. So it is sweeter than normal to see it in place.
Good evening Awesome Friends! I cranked Sweetheart at 4:41 yesterday and it runs like a top! (for all of you youngsters out there that are too young to know what that means, it means really smooth). YAY, YAY, YAY! Can you tell I am just a little bit happy to have finally heard Sweetheart Crank? I have a 25 second video that I will try to load below, I am not sure how successful I will be but we will see. Thanks to everyone who has given me advice and tried to steer me in the right direction on the first loader engine total rebuild. From the sound of the engine you all kept me out of trouble and gave great advice!
I have not been able to load the video. If you have any pointers to help me I will try it again. Here is the message I get when I try to load it.
bc you will likely have to post video on yt or some where else and then post a link to it here. this site does not handle vids . well
Well that is good news BC !! Actually I had a top when I was a child. It was very entertaining back in the 1940's. HEF does not have a way for videos to be posted on directly on the website. Ifvthey do, I don't know about it. You need to do a YouTube video and then copy and paste the URL of it here. I was typing when PP posted his info.
Good evening Guys I got a young whipper snapper to show me how to load videos to the Tube thing and put the links here. I hope they work. B-Crazy
Sounds good BC ! You should hook up the air cleaner before something bad happens to the turbo-charger.
Good evening Guys, I am getting really close to being able to play with the 1155, and I have a couple questions. The fluid capacity table says it holds 15 gallons of hydraulic fluid and 15 gallons of fluid for the trans and torque converter. Could you help me with the type fluid recommended for each system? Thanks All! B-Crazy
I got Sweetheart off of the blocks yesterday (Saturday 12/18/21) and ran her a couple of hours taking down an old tree and carrying all of the debris across the field to the brush pile. This was at least a couple of hours probably more. All in all it did good! The engine ran great!!! I found a couple of items to repair. One track adjuster seal is shot and has to be replaced, and the clam function did not seem to hold pressure as it should. I assume that would be caused by seals in the spool valve which operates the clam. I hope it is smaller that the main spool valve. I have built the spool valve in a few Bobcats so I am hoping it is similar. I'm trying to add a couple of UT video links below. Thanks again for all of the help from all of you Guys! B-Crazy
Hey BC the engine sounds good. The type of oil for the hyd. you can use Case Hy-trans ultra, the trans needs to be Case TCH fluid. The dealer may say you can use Hy-Tran in both but we were told that you couldn't use in the old crawler trannnys.
More that likely the leak off on clam is either cylinder leaking by internally or circuit relief in control valve needs to be adjusted.
Hi Coy, Thanks for the info on the oil and on the the clam issue. Both of the clam cylinders have just been rebuilt so I would guess it is circuit control valve. I do have a better service manual now, so I will see if I can locate that process. And when I do find it, if I am smart enough to understand it is another question.
I'm sure you'll understand it just fine. There are two shuttle valves in each section of control valve the o-rings on them can give you an issue also just FYI
Hey Guys! I hope you are all doing well tonight! I have gotten the complete hydraulic control valve re-ringed (O-rings and backers). Hopefully I can get a chance to get the hydro fluid back in it tomorrow, do a couple of pressure checks, and have Sweetheart ready to play around a little again. Once I am satisfied with how she is doing I have all of the belly pans to put back on. I feel sure that will take a half day as I always work alone. But hey, me and the floor jack can handle it. The grease and dirt was caked up on them between 3 and 4 inches put they have all been cleaned out and hot water power washed so it is soooooooo much cleaner! I have hot water power washed it about as good as I can under side and all so I just hope the grease and grime was not what was holding it together. It wasn't necessary to take all of the belly pans off but each time I would take one off and power the crud off underneath I could see how dirty the next section was and I would say well, I can't leave all that mess right next to the section I just cleaned. So I didn't find the stopping place until I came out the back side. I think it weighs a thousand pounds less than it did when I bought it. I know those belly pans had not been cleaned out in decades. Thanks for all of the advice Guys! My learning curve would have been much more costly and a lot slower without your help!!!
Good evening Guys! I didn't get as much as I thought done this weekend. It was cold, windy and messy here and then it got worse with snow and ice so we will see how it goes this week and weekend. It was so windy this afternoon that my suburban would almost change lanes on the interstate coming home from work, so not a good day to play outside when I got home. Can't wait to get the fluid back in her and try out her new o-rings! Stay tuned, more to come! B-C
BC, I just stumbled upon your thread. I read the whole thing and I have to say. I am very impressed. good job. for someone who says he didn't have a timeline you sure work fast. I have projects on timelines that I set that are years behind. I don't have any technical advice or any help at all actually I just wanted to say thank you for taking us along on the journey.
BC, just finished reading your thread and so enjoyed it.l am a new member and impressed with all the knowledge,l reworked a 955 cat many years ago and would have love to have had this support. I’m not very good at technology and still find myself drawing a print of something I’m working on and then it dawns on me that I have a phone in my pocket , take a picture you dummy! Hard to get away from old school. Sorry about the passing of your Mom but thankful she was a believer. I too look forward to seeing my parents and all those in faith that have gone on before me. Sam
Hi Hammer, I think it is great that you liked it. As you can see the Guys on here helped me a great deal! I have enjoyed doing my first "big" engine. Of course big is relative, if you are talking to someone who builds train engines then I have built a tiny engine for my 1155. Thanks! B-Crazy
Hi 955, I am so glad the you and Hammer have just found it and enjoyed it! Through the building of my 1155 and seeking help from all of the Guys on here I have become addicted to HEF (this site) and feel that I have to check in a few times a week, if not every evening when I make it to this easy chair. I hope my sense of humor comes through as being comical and you Guys get a laugh from it now and then. Yes my Mom and Dad are living the real life now that all believers are working toward. Let's bring others along with us to that glorious place! The Word says in that city there is one endless day and never comes a night! What an awesome place He has gone to prepare for us! B-Crazy