Truck has 300,000 miles on it. It uses 1 to 1.5 gallons of oil every 200 miles. No smoke. I use Rotella 15W40 oil. I have tried the following: 1. Checked fuel for oil, there was none. 2. Checked coolant for oil, there was none. 3. Checked turbo for oil and fan movement, no oil and fan ok. 4. Checked vacuum line from air filter to air compressor, line clear. 5. Changed oil and put Lucas oil treatment in as directed. 6. Changed air filter. Drove the truck about 70 miles and thought this helped but it is still using oil like before. 7. Checked the vent tube, if thats what it is called. Could not really feel air but put a glove over it and it inflated the glove. No oil drips from this tube at anytime. I have checked all that I know to check. Anybody know anything else I can do? Thanks in advance.
How many gallons of oil are you putting back in after you drain it?
7 1/2 gallons ( 30 quarts). I wonder if the wrong dipstick maybe in there.
Sounds like a lot. I would have IH run the serial and find out how much it is supposed to hold. Maybe someone else will chime in that has same truck. I used to have a DT. Took like 5 gallons if I remember. How much stick is left after the add mark? If there is at least as much as the distance from full to add, I would let it go a bit after it gets to add mark. Obviously if it gets to the bottom of stick you'll have to add, but even at 2½ gallons low, it still has 5 gallons in it.
if i remember correctly it is 28 quarts I will check some of my reference materials, looked in my books it says 24 quarts plus 4 for the filter so 28 quarts. If you have an injector or injectors pumping oil into the fuel system and you have a small fuel tank you probably are not going to see it especially as I can imagine with your consumption your oil must be pretty clean , What I would suggest is do a fresh oil change so oil is clean if it isn't and add oil dye to your crankcase , look at fuel in tank with light and yellow glasses on first so you can see what plain diesel looks like then run your truck for a bit and recheck tank and see if it is starting to show up in there , If you ain't leaking it you have to be burning it somehow or another .
A good rule of thumb is that the oil level should be about 1/2 below the pan gasket. Pull the dip stick and tie strap it to the tube then look to see where your full mark is as compared to the pan/block.
Here is a quick tip also the people that are remanufacturing the injectors and HUEI pumps for IH are not doing a good job I have had good luck replacing 466e injectors with alliant power units I have yet to try one of there pumps .
Hi, I'm a long time reader, first time poster I recently purchased a 1999 International 4900 series truck with a DT466E engine with only 97500 miles on the truck that came from a large company, known for taking and keeping a very strict maintenance schedule, and had this very same problem. Here's what I did to fix it.... When I purchased the truck, it would use about 3-4 qts oil per tank of fuel (50 gal tank). I thought it was excessive (also, when I would start it to warm up or when I would park it after a good run, I could smell the oil but not like it was burning, rather kind of like a well used Briggs & Stratton lawnmower..lol) so I did the same as you, checked all the obvious scenarios, turbo line, crankcase vent, look into exhaust and check for dark color, etc... all checked out with no sign of excessive use.... So I finally got a friend of mine involved (he owns his own business working on trucks), and had a conversation with him. I mentioned that I had been reading on the net about these engines and oil usage and the norm with almost everything I read or researched was the same.... injectors, sleeves, injector seals, etc.... I took the truck in to him and let him do what he does... turns out that he replaced a diaphragm in the injector pump, something about the engine oil primed the injector pump ( I know nothing about that, hence why he gets to fix it, lol), that almost stopped the oil consumption, went down to about 1 qt per tank of fuel but eventually it got worse as I used the truck. Next, I made an appointment for him to pull the injectors and replace the seals ( which, as I understand, are just o rings). Online they talk about the injector seals going bad, as far as I can understand, the reason is because that the o rings seat against a split washer and the gap in the washer is the problem, the oil pressure from the oil, pushes the o ring into the gap, thus eroding or degrading the sealing ability due to there being nothing to support the o ring. Well he purchased a kit, per my direction, and replaced all the injector seals, he told me that only two of the seals ( I believe there are 3 or 4 on each injector) showed a very slight sign of any problem at all.... He then went into things a little farther and what he found was , I believe, a small booster or transfer pump ( I forget what he called it) was bad ( when he showed me, he could push the plunger/primer by hand and oil would gush from every orifice ). It is the small sort of triangle part that is between the fuel filter and the injector pump... it is mounted onto the fuel pump itself. You can't miss it, open the hood and follow the fuel line from the filter, it will be the next thing plumbed between the filter and the injector pump. All in all, he repaired the diaphragm in the injector pump, did the injector seal kit ( came with new overlapping spring washers/ retainers), and installed a new (again, I think he told me) booster pump. just a note, he had to buy a complete fuel pump to get the booster pump off it, then return the fuel pump ( something about it wasn't available separately and the dealer couldn't remove it). When all was said and done, the total bill was just over $1900. My truck now has about 3000 miles and about 245 hrs running time since the repairs ( I know because I had to install a new dash), and has used absolutely no oil at all, the oil level hasn't gone down one bit. FYI, my truck holds just over 7 gallons of oil. I hope this helps. Portabledave
Thanks to everyone for the replies. Portabledave, is this the triangle shaped part you are referring to?
Here are two other pics that may help clarify. I am having trouble posting pics like I want.
Yes, that was the culprit on my truck... it showed no sign of oil leakage at all, externally, but apparently, the problem was all internal.... I forgot to mention in my previous post, that I had excessive oil in my fuel ( returned to the fuel tank). When I did the "dip test" (dipped a small cup into the tank and pulled it out and spilled it onto a clean, white paper towel), visually, you couldn't tell there was oil in the fuel ( added so much oil that the oil was clean, not dark or black and thus couldn't see it in the fuel) but when I rubbed some between my fingers, you could tell, also, I could smell the oil in the fuel ( at least, the fuel didn't quite smell right).
I will check fuel again tomorrow. I checked it previously but it looked like clean diesel fuel but I didn't feel it or smell of it. Will also do like Walkerv said and look at it with yellow glasses. My pics didn't come out just right but the piece you replaced is on the left side in the bottom pic and looks like it is touching a small wire with electrical tape on it. Right?
Well now my pictures are showing up. The part in post #9 would be the culprit? Fuel supply lift pump.
yes, that was the last part we replaced, we also replaced a diaphragm inside the injector pump as well, and replaced all of the injector seals, and there was a sensor ( under the valve cover) that was replaced as well (as long as the valve cover was off)... Looking back at your original post and seeing that your truck has 300,000 miles on it, I would be inclined to think that your issue with the oil consumption may be the injector seals, more than anything... reason that makes me think that is somewhere I read that some injector seals (o rings) would start to show signs of degradation as soon as 100,000 miles and most needed to be replaced by around 200,000 - 250,000 miles. My truck had just under 100,000 miles but I was told when I purchased it that it sat for about 2 1/2 yrs.... Unfortunately, unless you have a friend who works on trucks and has a very good source for info on these engines' issues, it's probably going to cost you some $ before you can get it figured out... Something else I just noticed... the part I mentioned (triangle in shape), in your pics is not "International blue", telling me that it was probably replaced once before and that would indicate a problem with that particular piece on these engines... If you take your truck in to a dealer for the repair, they are most likely going to try to talk you into the injector repair first (more money, and by the mileage on your truck, they will most likely tell you that you'll need to replace the "worn" injectors as well.... more money for them). I don't remember off hand, without trying to find the invoice, but I think that small part that's inline (triangle part), was somewhere around $100, give or take... it is an easy to get at part and not very expensive.... If you take it off, there's a "plunger" that you can push when it's off, just try to push it and see what happens, how it feels. If it seems ok, then you can just re install it. there should be no oil getting into the fuel cavity if you do push the primer.... When testing the fuel, if it's using as much as mine did, you can feel the difference between good fuel and yours by taking a small sample of each and running the good fuel between your fingers on one hand and the contaminated fuel on your other hand at the same time... also, you should be able to smell the oil in the fuel... also, when you run the truck, you should be able to smell the extra oil in the exhaust ( like a worn out briggs & Stratton engine) I used the same oil that you are using as well... one last thing to look at before you start to wrench in things, I'd check the crankcase vent tube and look to see if there is excessive, fresh oil buildup inside it. It should be somewhere near the oil filter on the passenger side of the engine and hanging down along side of the oil pan you should see up into it easily when you get under there, if it's "wet" with oil, would indicate that there might be a lot of blow by, indicating worn out... Again, I am no expert here, just trying to offer advise from my experience. Portabledave
Thanks. I did check the crankcase vent tube and did not find any oil. Also put a glove over it and it inflated glove so it was not plugged. I asked the IH dealer and all they wanted to do was to overhaul basically. About $6000 to $10000 depending.
Here is a comparison of diesel from my Dodge truck and the 1999 International. I can definitely see a difference in the coloration. As walkerv stated above, the engine was using so much oil it was clean and hard to see just looking in tank or in a clear tube by itself. However when compared to a sample from another vehicle it was pretty obvious. My question now is should I go ahead and replace the injector seals or start with fuel transfer pump and high pressure oil injector pump?
personally, Knowing what I know about this, I would start with the small "triangle" part (booster pump/ transfer pump or whatever...). It's fairly easy to get to for removal, and if you take it off and push the primer or rod, you should see if oil is bypassing into the fuel cavity... It's a fairly easy part to check and if you can't find anything, also easy to re install, by yourself, saving you the money and hassle of getting it to a dealer or someone to repair. My thought is that if that is the problem, you will see it right away.... Again, I'm no expert here.... Portabledave
It's most likely your injector seals, very common issue. They are inexpensive and fairly easy to replace. I have also seen higher mile injectors leak oil to fuel internally.
Thanks for the information. Will update this coming weekend.
I checked the fuel transfer pump and did not find anything wrong with it. Looking at taking truck to mechanic to get injector seals replaced. I have been quoted about $550 labor and whatever the seals cost. I would like to save the labor and do this myself but not having done any work on injectors in the past I am concerned about going it alone.
If you aren't sure what your doing 550$ is a fair rate plus's the seals. They aren't terrible to replace it's mostly a pain getting to them.make sure your cab is clean as the doghouse will have to come out . If this doesn't at least slow down your oil loss then it will be an injector leaking internally as stated by someone else in your post. There is no way to tell which one it is doing it you will be forced to replace all 6 of them. I have good luck with alliant power aftermarket and bad luck with OEM remans
The fuel transfer pump has a seal around the plunger that runs against the cam in the HPOP. If this seal leaks oil into the pump your engine will use oil. Looking at your pump in the pictures it looks like it's been there for a while. The check valves in the pump do wear out over time. It might be a good idea to replace it or put a kit in the pump first. There is a high pressure rail bolted to the left side of the cylinder head. It's a manifold that supplies high pressure oil and fuel to the injectors. It's common for the gasket to deteriorate and leak externally. It is quite possible that the gasket is leaking allowing high pressure oil to mix with the fuel. I's not a big job to replace the gasket. There are 3 O-rings and a steel backup ring on the injectors. High pressure oil is fed to the injector between the 2 top O-rings. It's usually the top O-ring that fails letting high pressure oil escape under the valve cover causing a hard start no start condition. The oil pressure can reach 3000 psi under full load and is around 800 psi at idle. The top O-ring fails where the gap is on the steel backup ring. I have never seen the middle O-ring fail which would allow oil to mix with the fuel. I would still expect a hard start no start if the middle O-ring failed especially when the engine is hot. I would recommend replacing or kitting the transfer pump and replacing the high pressure rail gasket before having the injector seals replaced. You should be able to both jobs yourself. Cleanliness is very important when when working on fuel systems. There is a banjo fitting on the rear of the high pressure rail where the return line to the fuel tank connects. Make sure and disconnect it before you try to pull the rail out. Terry
Thanks. The truck sometimes will turn over several times on the first start of the day, especially when it has not been started in several days. I thought this could be air getting in fuel line somewhere. However, after the initial start, it starts fine all day. I believe I will change the fuel transfer pump and change the rail gasket. After taking the banjo fitting loose and removing bolts the rail should pull out easily or will take some effort?
Will I need to replace orings and gasket on high pressure rail?
The ECM and some fuel lines and an oil line will have to come of first. There is only a gasket under the high pressure rail you should have seals for the fuel lines as well and maybe new seal rings for the banjo fitting. Once the rail is unbolted it lifts our easily. The fuel rail O-rings in the above picture are for the newer engines that have the rail under the valve cover. Terry
Is there a certain torque setting that the rail bolts need to be tightened to?
The torque is 20 ft lbs starting in the middle. Probably start at 10 ft lbs the 15 then 20. Terry
Thanks. Trying to find transfer pump online instead of buying from dealer. Most pumps online in the $50 to $100 range appear to be older and without packaging. One had mfg. date of 2008. Part is listed as new but would I be better off buying one from diesel shop for $180? Just trying to avoid problems.
You should be able to get a seal kit or possibly a complete pump from a fuel injection shop.
Your oil/fuel rail is a gasket those orings are for newer eng
Installed new fuel transfer pump today. So the test begins....
Fuel transfer pump did not solve the problem. Down to installing new fuel/oil rail gasket and/or replacing o-ring seals on injectors.
I wouldn't change that gasket unless it's leaking all over your engine go for the injectors o rings they are a common issue
I had the injector orings changed and the engine is still using oil. If I drive the truck all day it will use about 1.5 gallons of oil. So I am left with only one option that I know of and that is to change all the injectors since, if I am correct, there is no way to accurately test the injectors. Who would you recommend to buy the injectors from? I see in the above post from Walkerv that Alliant Performance injectors would be better than OEM. Somebody had mentioned Pensacola Diesel to me. Does anyone have any experience buying from them? Thanks
Correction to above post. I had not changed the high pressure rail gasket so I decided to do that. After changing gasket engine is still using oil. So now I am down to changing out injectors unless there is something I am missing. Picture is of rail before cleaning and reinstalling.
Injector prices are $135 per injector to rebuild and $250 per injector(Alliant Power) to buy new. Is it worth paying the price difference to get "new" rather than rebuilt?
that is a tough one to answer do you have a fuel shop that can actually rebuild those injectors for you and test them ? or is 135 price of a reman injector and who is it from ?i personally would go new if you plan on having the truck for a good long while just my 2 cents
There is a fuel shop that can rebuild them but they cannot test for internal leakage as they us the same color fluid for fuel and oil. The rebuild cost is $135. Can buy what they are calling "new" Alliant Injectors for $250 each. Not sure if these are really new are just factory reman. Im thinking factory reman but I see a lot of positive comments about Alliant injectors so I am leaning going that route.
Guys, I'm just a pencil-pushing lurker, but the OP may want to communicate with ThePumpGuySC, who is a regular contributor to HEF. Neill
Check your air drier and air tank drain for engine oil. My DT466E air compressor was pumping oil to the air drier and air tank. I have a thread further up in Trucks.
At 1.5 gallons a day I would think the OP's truck would be a mess from the air dryer purge or would have some serious air system issues by now.
Just saying one more thing to check
I have checked the air system. Really no oil to speak of. I have tried numerous times to have a mechanic come out and remove/reinstall injectors for me but they all have their long time customers and really dont care to work on the little mans equipment while they have steady work with the big guys. So, it looks like if I want it done it will be up to me. Can anyone tell me the basic steps on removing and reinstalling the injectors on a 1999 DT466E? Or where I can find the information? I have looked on youtube, searched the web, and cannot find this information. Thanks
I will post scans of the relevant pages from the shop manual when I get home later today. You should not have a problem doing it your self. Terry
Thank you!!
Here are some pages out of the shop manual. First thing you need to do is you need to loosen the banjo fitting on the rear of the fuel/oil rail. Then remove #1 injector first and the fuel in the rail will drain all over the transmission. A couple spill towels would be a good idea. Cleanliness is very important! Use lint free rags or paper towel. Very Important! Once the engine is back together and ready to start. Unplug the cam position sensor on the front cover. Crank the engine over three times for 15 seconds. This will allow the injectors to fill with fuel. If the injectors have no fuel in them the HEUI plunger can hit the injector nozzles with so much force they can be damaged and can come off causing serious engine damage. If you need any more info let me know and I will see what I can do. Terry
Terry, thanks very much for this information. I have read over it and it doesn't seem that hard. I do have a few questions. 1. The oil/fuel rail that the banjo fitting is on is shown in figure 4.100 correct? Once I remove the doghouse from inside the cab the banjo fitting will be accessible there. I have pictures of this rail in earlier posts where I replaced the gasket. 2. Which injector is #1? 3. I have read elsewhere that I need to drain the oil so as to make sure I have no oil on top of pistons so engine will not lock up. Will draining the oil as you described accomplish this? 4. When I unplug the cam position sensor and turn the engine over to fill the injectors, is there anyway I can be sure the injectors are full?
Correct the banjo fitting is on the rear of the oil fuel rail. The front injector is number one. Draining the oil out of the rail is a good idea. You have to take the big plug out above the banjo fitting at the rear of the rail. I have never been able to loosen one. Working on the can floor under the dash If it came loose you could hurt your self. I always plug the hole the injector came out of with paper towel or rags to absorb the oil. There is no way of knowing the injectors are full of fuel for sure. here should be a schrader fitting on the rail near the front. Take the cap off and hold it open while pumping the primer pump fuel should squirt out. Terry
Thanks. One more decision I have to make is where to get injectors. There are shops nearby that rebuild these for about $150 each. I have found a few that order Alliant injectors but they are about $250-$275 each. Better to buy the Alliant? I see good reviews on them. I also have spoken with people who have used the rebuilt injectors and some have had problems and most have not. Big money difference between the two.
What is the warranty on the Alliant injectors compared to the local rebuilds? If you go with the rebuilds and have an injector fail and you can replace it your self it's probably not a big deal. I used to look after several late 90s DT466 engines I had a copy of Internationals diagnostic program Fleet MD. Fleet MD would let you run an injector contribution test. I had one engine with lots of hours on it was down on power and ran rough. I ran the injector contribution test and 3 injectors were at 40% of what the other 3 were. I replaced the 3 injectors and it ran like new again. It seems that as the injectors wear and there output goes down. I would be concerned that the rebuilders may not catch this wear. If it were my money I would go with the Alliant injectors. Terry
Thanks Terry. Going to try to get injectors out today.
Finished the job yesterday. Installed Alliant injectors. The only thing different I found was the Alliant injectors came with copper washers on the bottom of injectors but had SS washers in a bag to install if engine serial number was in a certain range. The old injectors had copper washers. The cups were not copper. I had a mechanic come help with installing the injectors and he checked cups said to put the SS washers on the injectors and thats what we did. I primed the fuel system with hand pump and then turned engine over 3 times for 15 seconds like you said, then hooked cam sensor up. I would turn engine over 10 seconds then prime the fuel. I did this probably five times and the engine started. Will post back after I have driven truck enough to test oil usage. Thanks to all that posted and especially mekanik (Terry) for posting the service manual pages and answering questions. The costs for the Alliant injectors was $290 each.
Used truck for 3 hours today, hauling 4 loads and oil remained at the full mark. Thank God. And, the oil is still clear. I hope this post helps someone else with this problem. Thanks again Terry and to all those that replied.