I just purchased a TD15C. One of the top track rollers stopped turning so I need to replace it. I cannot get the nut to break free. It is a 2 and 1/4 inch. I applied liquid wrench oil, tapped on the nut and let set for one day. I bent a 3/4 inch break over. I suppose heating the nut will help. If so how much heat? I can not find a 1 inch or bigger drive set in my area. Any suggestion appreciated before I apply the real liquid wrench(cutting torch).
hammer wrench and a BIG sledge hammer
I have those up to 2 inch. They are great but I am not going to get a good hit on it with a hammer. It is on the inside of the track. Thanks for the reply
Can you post a pic of the little demon nut?
I will not be able to take a picture for a couple days. It does have a flange on the bottom portion. There is about 3/4 inch of flats to get a socket on. My manual for the TD15 says something like 1000ft/lbs of torque and I believe them and then some! Will heat on the nut help?
Heat almost always helps in such situations. Heat, then spray with penetrating oil. Repeat. Don't light yourself on fire or blow yourself up. Use your hammer to tap on it like you have been doing. Just keep working it and you should be able to get it free. But hey, there are those times when the torch has to come out.
Seems like that would be a good job for a torque multiplier.Wait and see what ATCO comes up with,he is pretty sharp and he does these things every day.Ron G
Hydraulic torque wrench for sure.
:drinkup Without a pic I am guessing. But a torque multiplier is a good bet , as mentioned by Ron
heat up the nut and then quickly cool it with cold water.
I'd heat it up, or if you can get a new nut to suit cut it of!
LoL, I don't know what I'm working on with this one Ron G. Without being able to see it and get any ideas. If there's no torque multiplier available, I'm inclined to agree with CPS; if a new nut can be obtained, I'm cutting it off and installing a new nut on re-assembly.
I talked to a long time heavy equipment mechanic today. He said heat only one flat of the nut and get it slightly red. He said it will let it expand more. Weather permitting, i will take my torch, apply penetrating oil,peck to vibrate, reheat and do process over a few times then heat one flat of the nut and act quickly with the socket set. I will try the heat and cold if theat does not work. The mechanic has a 1" breaker bar that should be better than my 3/4". The torque multiplier would be nice. A quick story about them. When I was a millwright for GM my paint shop crew and myself was assigned to help the body shop crew remove robots for the weekend. They had broken several multipliers on these very large nuts. We we given a new one and broke it on the the 3rd nut. One of my crew had the idea to take a old hammer blow closed end and made a adapter to fit it into a 20Ft long thick wall rectangle tubing about 2"x4". We were breaking the nuts loose so fast that the boss just had us going down the line and breaking the nuts loose. Three men on the end of the pry bar and one closer to see that the wrench was well placed on the nut. Everyone talked about Jim's long fulcrum for a while. It saved GM a lot of money. If we always had that much free space to work in we could do without the multipliers but life isn't always that simple. I really appreciate all the input.
landsalesman, our problem is we can't see what your working on. If you have sufficient access to the nut that you can heat one flat, and as it's cooling, peen on the flat with the flat nose of a ball peen hammer. The peening will reduce the amount of steel contraction while the nut is cooling. But this would apply more to a nut that is siezed on the threads. In the case with your top roller, it may be that the nut is XXXX ft lbs tight, not necessarily siezed on the threads, so heating the nut may be of no avail. That's where you would need the torque multiplier, or, your 20 ft cheater pipe.
I had a pinion shaft seal on my dump truck that was leaking and when I went to replace it, the nut just would not come off - even when heated and using a 6ft cheater bar. I tried an impact gun (1800 ft/lbs) once with no results. Didn't want to repeat impact gun use for fear of damage to the gears. I had a can of "liquid freeze" sitting around, so I heated the nut up again (til it got red) and then sprayed the "liquid freeze" onto the shaft and the nut popped loose like it wasn't ever tight. I did replace the nut with a new one.
That sounds crazy Bob! What's the liquid freeze you used? Have you used this method on other stuck items? That sounds interesting. :cool2
ATCOEQUIP, it is a spray can similar to the ones used by doctors to freeze warts etc. I picked it up somewhere a while back and used it mostly for setting bearings etc. It works great for that (same as putting the bearing in the freezer - only faster). I just got the idea to try it on this nut problem and I used the last of it for that. In fact I ran out of the stuff while spraying it on the shaft and thought that there wasn't enough to do the job, but when I put the breaker bar on it, it just popped loose. Now I have go try to find some more and I can't remember where I got it. It might have been some parts house like Napa.
I know the hammer wrench wont fit... Anyway i recently heard a story from friend who owned a valve company. They were working on a 108" gate valve that had been in service for somewhere around 25 years. Using a hammer wrench being pulled on by a come-along, and a 20lb maul hitting on it, and heating it with oxy acetylene kit. They had 28 bolt to break and used 20 bottles of oxygen and 12 bottles of acetylene. Big bottles I say. Were working in tight quarters and had to get it off without cutting everything up. I can't say I agree with heating a bolt and shooting a penetrating oil onto the bolt just to watch it catch on fire or evaporate. I do agree with the penetrating oil to sit, then heat. Also I purchased a 3/4" breaker bar and have a 5' aluminum pipe that I use on it. I have put everything I have on the bar and haven't broken it yet. I should mention that I paid around 60 dollars for it. one option that I may suggest is to separate the entire shaft Assembly from the roller mount. I can not find my td15 parts manual so this is from memory. There is a hold down nut that clamps the mounting bracket (part that holds the upper roller shaft) Remove the bolt, and drive a small metal wedge into the slot and replace the entire roller assembly. I don't know your situation, and I hope to not have to replace a upper roller. I have gotten roller Assembly prices of bearco roller for around 250.
Do tell when you locate some, I would like to try that. :drinkup
some of the guys around here will heat a bolt till it turns a little red then melt candle wax into it. just get it hot and push the candle in where the threads of the bolt are out past the nut. sometimes it work sometimes it doesnt.
I know CRC makes a freeze. Link to CRC Freeze-Off http://www.crcindustries.com/auto/content/fzo.aspx But when I was searching for the CRC product, I found this. Poop-Freeze http://www.poopfreeze.com/
Loctite makes one too: http://loctitefreezeandrelease.com/ Haven't got it to work, infact, have never got any type of "magic in a can" to work. Edit: Take that back, some kind of "Blast" air tool oil brought an impact wrench back to life.
Loctite makes one too: http://loctitefreezeandrelease.com/ Haven't got it to work, infact, have never got any type of "magic in a can" to work.
If I remember correctly, the stuff used by dermatologists to burn/freeze off warts and other skin growths is liquid hydrogen. It reaches far lower temperatures than the products intended for automotive use. Liquid hydrogen is stored at about -250 degrees C. Compare that to -40 C for the automotive stuff. Here's a link to a video on making "poor man's liquid hydrogen." I'm not sure how to apply this to a rusty bolt, but it might make for an interesting experiment if handled cautiously. http://www.wonderhowto.com/wonderment/make-poor-man-s-liquid-nitrogen-0112971/ Another idea for breaking a rusted nut loose is to heat the outer diameter of the nut with an oxy-acetylene torch. Then apply ice cubes from the freezer to the protruding part of the bolt. Then try removing the nut before it cools too much. No guarantees, but it might work.
I deal with seized nuts on a regular basis.The best penetrating oil is stuff called Kroil, http://www.kanolabs.com/ its not sold in any stores that im aware of,but you can buy from the company direct.As far as getting it off,soaking it with Kroil if you can find some,then try breaking it free,then try heating it up,soaking with Kroil again.If that fails,its either a Hytorc , http://www.hytorc.com/ or cut the nut off.
Any electronics supply store will have freeze spray for sale.Even the "Shack"....lol.....should have it at inflated prices.We use it for troubleshooting electronics and it should be readily available.The cans used to have freon in them but I wouldn't be surprised that a shot of propane would do the trick if you have some. I will have to try that someday.I think if you hold the bottle upside down and squirt it I'll bet it will dispense as a liquid and should freeze whatever it touches as good as freon did. The last squirt cans of tuner cleaner etc. that I bought had really gone up in price because of the propellant scare and the manufacturers gouging us I am sure so I don't use it any more than I have to .Ron G
and then theres slitting the nut with a die grinder and a cuttoff wheel and twisting it off.
snap on sells a nutcracker that works really well
I have used the torch and ice cube method mentioned above with success, it was cheap and effective.
2 1/4 ** nut is pretty big (56mm or summit) 1 1/2 Thread. TBH .. If you havent got the gear then you shouldnt be doing the job. If you dont have the purchase to fit a Hi-Torq or Multiplier then you need to Make a flogging ring out of some plate .. With a little heat you should be able to move it with a few wacks .. even if its in a tight space.
One old mechanic I worked with would cut a wrench out of a heavy piece of plate, then cut a hole in the other end of it and hook his Autocrane to it and give a good pull. Never seen a nut that would resist the 8,000# crane on the end of a 2' long wrench.
I have seen the loctite one in the local parts supply store, think i'll try a can next time im in, if its not too expensive!
Yeah Ive done that in the past, Flogging ring on Bottom Roller Bolt, Support with a Jack. Sling the wrench to a Telehandler and drive away .. It works but is very Dangerous .. Last ditch effort ...