I am looking for a 20k size dozer. I am considering Cat D5G LGP, Case 850K LGP series I and JD 650H. I do not know if the D5G has Mitsubishi involvement as I understand the smaller hystat Cat/Mitsubishi machines were problematic. EROPS is required. I plan to clean up some brush, stack some downed trees,work on some drainage. All brands have dealers here, Case has the best support the "arrogance" issue is alive and well here. Other than A/C, hystat, and 6way blade I would like to stay away from the electronics as much as possible. Your suggestions are appreciated.
All three are just as good, CAT and Deere seem to rule the roost depending on where you look, last year I looked inside the cab of a Case and I noticed one thing that everyone else noticed, how badly the ventilation ducting blocks your view, but it was built really well. Out of all 3, I'd look closer at the Deere, it'll be cheaper on fuel and they seem to be better balanced that Cat, but then again Cat has upgraded the D3, D4 and D5's to the K series, so maybe they addressed the problem.
If it is anywhere near being a close call, I go where dealer support is the best. Good dealers make for good equipment.:IMO
You said a mouthful North Texan! When you are making a living with a machine, downtime can be disasterous and whatever dealer can get you back to work the fastest will be your savior.
The local Case dealer service manager is the kind of guy that you can call and he will answer any question for you. When I thought I had an issue with my 580M he ask me bring it in and let him take a look at it. There was no charge. They have treated like good family even though I am a small rancher and not a multimillion dollar account road contractor.
I really like the H series dozers, but you are right,you need to have good service available. Our deere constuction dealer [ Nortrax ] which is 50 miles away has a real bad parts dept. You have to order parts at least 2-3 times before you get the right one. I don't know any thing about their mechanics. thankfully my boss is a mechanic and has a full service truck.
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums bigpoppa! :drinkup
Cat IMO because LGP and oval tracks don't go hand and hand. Deere next, but no way would Case be in the running. None of the 850s I've ran come close to even keeping up the D4s I've ran, 850 are POS compared to D5s.
Thanks Country boy. Have been checking this site for almost a year, finally got around to registering. Great site ! :cool2
I agree -- that's about the most-concise way I've heard of saying it yet. (Unlike my blathering. )
Dozerboy, Can you explain LGP and oval tracks do not go hand in hand?
LPGs with oval tracks are much harder to clean then one with narrow tracks and if you have clay like I do here it will be a real PITA. High tracks are much easier to clean, but thats just my .02.
Sounds like someone is afraid of some hard work at the end of the day! :cool2
Not afraid just don't like working harder then I have to most would call that wise. If you cleaned you tracks daily here you would never do any work other then cleaning.
20,000# dozer class. Hi, Legdoc. Welcome to the forum. There are two main things to consider in this debate - performance and service back-up, with service back-up quite possibly being the more important. A better performing machine is almost as much use as an udder on a hen if it is broken down and you can't get service. On the other hand, a machine that you can get service and parts for is not a lot of help if it is seldom running. Price ought to come into the equation ONLY when you have two more or less equal performing machines with pretty much equal service back-up and want a deciding factor. It is also not a lot of help if you have a 'CHEAP' machine that won't perform or keep performing. Funny thing is, it is often the 'CHEAP' machines that don't perform and keep performing and often don't have back-up either. How cheap are they then? Another deciding factor to separate two equal machines can be operator comfort and convenience, including visibility. Ask to demo the machines and ask around about the respective dealers performance records before making any decision. Personally, I'd go with Dozerboy's advice if the dealers are more or less equal. You might pay a bit of a premium on a Cat or JD over a Case but I know I don't see a lot of Case machines around my way. Whether that is due to performance or to back-up, or both, I don't know. And I am DownUnder. Hope this helps
On cleaning tracks. Hi, Bobcat Ron. I'm with Dozerboy here. The Hi-sprocket Cat LGP's do clean themselves way better than the oval track LGP's. If you had ever had to dig out the tracks of an oval tracked LGP when they are choked with mud, sticks, vines and wait-awhile thorns, you would have some understanding of the difference. I have spent 5 HOURS cleaning the tracks of a 'Kummagutsa' D65P 'swampy' using a hose, a long-handled spade, a Toyota Hi-Lux 4x4 and a length of 3/8 chain, to get such a mess cleaned out. Do you want to volunteer for the next time? I certainly don't. It's not that I am afraid of work. I can sit and watch it all day. H**l, I can even go to sleep beside it. How fearful is that? But I CAN'T see any need to make it more difficult than it has to be.
D-5 i spend most of my time on a d-5 and have run a few other d-5's i think they are a super great machine. i have grubed and made some cuts that i probabaly shouldnt have with it, i have trully put our d-5 through the paces. i would really suggest looking at the d-5! cat is willinig to do about anything to sale a tractor right now. good luck! let me know what you decide.:drinkup
I am curious about pushkid84's comment about "cat willing to do about anything to sell a tractor". Can you elaborate?
I appreciate everyones advice. As a former cat mechanic (ending 26 years ago) I certainly recognize the strength and value of cat products. It is my understanding from several local contractors and operators the local cat dealer loves selling and servicing equipment catering mostly to the big guys. I know a man that runs three cat dozers and was getting his service and parts from another dealer over 100 miles away. I would love to have a new machine for my 4-5 year mostly weekend project. But for ranch work it is hard to justify the expense of a new machine. I will most likely look for a "rare find" late model with less than 1000 well maintained hours on it. I had almost decided on a Case 850K, JD 650J, or D5G. After finishing my project I had thought about doing some ranch work in the area but the going rate for a 20k machine is about $80.00 hr. I dont know how you can come out at that rate especially if you are trying to pay for a new machine. Case in point, I was talking to a fellow the other day that retired from a local plant. He bought a new Kubota backhoe loader, new trailer, and new 1ton Duramax dually. He charges $50.00 hr. I ask him why he works so cheap. He said "I love operating tractors it is like a hobby". This is the situation in this area. I love operating equipment too but if it is others I plan to make some money doing it!
I found that if they ask you what you are expecting for a trade in value, you can give them a number (even a half assed one) and they'll meet it. But the Cat dealer here seems to be bending over backwards due to the higher sales coming out of the Deere side of the fence. Maybe that's what pushkid was refering to.
due to the slow econimy cat is really trying to get as much buisness as possible so go to the dealer ship and tell them your looking at a jd and they do their best for ya good luck!
By the way, thank you Countryboy and Deas for the welcome!