Hello, I'm currently operating a pc2000 komatsu on a road job, and have also ran 1800 hitachi, and 5130 cat. I would like to hear from some other operaters their comparison of these machines, productions, power, balance? Your comments will be appreciated. Thanks
Did you mean 20 ton excavator? I mean 200 ton is a bit of overkill.
Pics please! that must be one hellacious road! :notworthy
That's a pretty new and still relatively rare model which replaced the PC1800. What are your comments on the productions, power, balance?
moving 7 million c/yds in WV, Near as I can figure the pc2000 I'm running has moved nearly 1 million c/yds in 4 months working 2, 10 hr shifts a day. The 5130 moved around 1.3 million c/yds in 6 months of double shifts. The 1800 was in a mining dig, its a totally different style of digging, so don't have a good idea of it's production.
Unfortunately, not many of us have had the opportunity to operate such large machines...
sheesh...what id give to run one of them for awhile...
how about it, id give any thing run one of those beasts.. and here i brag about running a 345 or a 350. :notworthy
big hoe man and i thought my 330cl was big, it has a 66'' bucket .that thing must have a 7'or 8'?how many yard bucket?how much fuel per hour?kinda overkill for a road project! ointhead
biggest ive run wa sa 330c
pc2000 15.5 c/yd cat 5130 14 c/yd ex1800 14 c/yd thats an 8t in the pit
Those are some massive teeth.
Massive is not the word , there like the width of my truck!
Big excavators. What contractor are you working for on that project? Is it the Kiewit/Gilbert Southern freeway project? I’ve operated a couple of the larger shovels/excavators. I’ve run CAT 5110B and 5130B (FS and ME configurations). Komatsu PC1800, PC4000 and Hitachi 1200. The 5110B and Hitachi 1200 were in construction settings under high production standards. The 5130B, PC1800 and PC4000 were in mines. I don’t have an extensive amount of time as an operator in any of these. A couple hundred hours cumulatively; giving me enough seat time to form a few opinions. Kiewit has three 5110B’s that work on the Pipeline and Heavy Civil Divisions. I’ve done a number of big jobs with one or two of those excavators on-site. While not 200-ton excavators, they’re some of the best excavators as far as power and balance go. You can take a 5110B with a 13yd bucket, heaped ~100-115%, turn over the side of the tracks and get no hop from the back track while raising the boom up and down. Very few ME excavators I’ve been on can do the same. While not overly fast on any cycle speeds, the 5110B’s are very smooth which I feel makes up for any perceived lack of speed. A good operator in a 5110B with a 13yd bucket will turn out a 777 with a 4 pass average; keeping spec times under 1:10/load. I’ve never got to see a 5110B run head-to-head with either a Komatsu PC-1250 or a Hitachi 1200 so I don’t know firsthand how they would on a production level. I have been on a job with a PC-1250, laying shotcrete pipe. The machine was downright fast for being such a large hoe. The crew was cutting 25’ to invert, had a 385B following the 1250 just to place shoring, and they were still getting 160’ or 200’ of pipe in the ground in a day. They said that the PC-1250 facilitated almost one more stick of pipe a day versus the 5110B; which ran right at 160’ of pipe per day in the same settings. I have run a Hitachi 1200; and I wasn’t overly impressed in truck loading production settings. For being a 238,000lb excavator, just 45,960lbs lighter than a 5110B, with a 10yd bucket; it had a lot of hop. What I really disliked was how it balanced. The narrow tracks on a seemingly grossly undersized undercarriage just made the machine feel uncomfortable to me. I never could get it feel really solid and eliminate all rocking motion. In lighter material, and pipe-laying applications it handled fairly well. From talking to the operators from Kiewit’s Pipeline Division crews, they said with the smaller buckets (8.5-9.5yd) they did like the Hitachi, but not as much as the PC-1250’s, which is what they currently run on the pipeline crews. In production settings loading trucks (773’s) the Hitachi had some bad hop, even on well graded (dozer built) load-out benches. If swinging less than 40 degrees from straight forward it handled alright, but if going much past that (haul truck had pulled a little too far forward) the machine would have problems with over swinging and you’d start to get some hop from the backside track. Nothing worse than starting to uncurl the bucket and ending up swinging too far and losing some of the material onto the canopy rock guard rail; it’s unsafe and it really rattles the operators (and it’s never good to **** off your truck drivers). Over swinging and backside track-hop are two of the biggest killers to efficiency in production settings with the larger excavators. In utilities excavation, doing large pipeline work, excavators are typically packing smaller buckets and manage them better. With the larger capacity buckets for high production settings, the machine still needs to handle the bucket well enough to prevent from things like hop, over swinging, etc. I wasn’t impressed with the Hitachi for these reasons. The CAT 5130B was alright for a shovel, but it didn’t do as good of a job filling the shoes of its little brother the 5110B. Its cycle speeds weren’t as even as I would have liked. In a production setting: face loading overburden into 785’s; the 5130 had sufficient break-out force for relatively hard rock. But with slow stick-lift settings (for peak break-out force) if you had the bucket filled about ½ way up during your rise, once you broke out of the face and began swinging, the machine would swing so fast that you’d often have to stop your swing before getting to the truck to let the stick raise high enough to clear the sides of the bed and then recontinue swinging. This really killed production and made for some close calls on swinging the bucket into the backside of the truck. What I really liked about the 5130B was the power it had in the stick. If getting into some larger (5’+ rocks) in the face as you were loading, you could open the bucket and make some “ripping†passes to break material free while waiting as your next truck backed in. The 5130B would tear through just about anything. Even if you took an aggressive bite into the face, as the stick would slow down in the face, it was actually hard to make it come to a stop. The machine had so much power it would keep breaking through. It also remained very stable and planted firmly on the floor regardless of how hard you bit into the face. I was very impressed with the machine for this reason. The one downside to all the power was you would occasionally get some larger rocks loading into the bucket that wouldn’t fall through while dumping into the truck, you’d occasionally lose them off the top of the bucket while trying to swing back off the truck to drop them on the floor (back to rattling truck drivers; no good). The 5130B ME was a good excavator and really excels in production loading 777’s. The controls felt much smoother and more balanced than the FS version to me. It handled very well even if swinging a full 45 degrees over the side of the tracks to load a truck. Turn-out times on 777’s were FAST. The only thing I really didn’t like was the really high shovel cab set-up. If working on a flat bench it was fine, but if flipping sideways to pull down a slope the height of the cab made visibility difficult. If you swing sideways it was alright, but pulling slopes in rock material resulted in too little weight over the bucket, lifting the track. If you put the bucket down, flipped the tracks sideways (which I found to feel very unstable in that machine) and then began pulling down the slope grade, the machine had optimum power for it, but if sitting at an angle, the visibility was poor. The PC1800 was a very decent machine for small shovel. Cycle speeds were downright fast for being a shovel. The controls were smooth, and the machine straight-up cycled well. It’s turn-out times on 777’s were fast. Less than 3 minutes if I recall correctly. I didn’t run one with a backhoe stick, so I don’t know how it would compare to a PC2000 with a backhoe stick. The thing I really didn’t like about the PC1800 was when making any “ripping†passes; the back end of the machine would actually lift up if you took a deep bite. Not a good feeling when you’re sitting in a machine 21’ off the ground. And when the bucket breaks free and the back of your tracks fall 2-3’; it really jars you and the machine. The PC4000 was something else. There’s nothing quite like sitting in the seat of a machine that large. It was huge and had the power to match. It was slow, but all shovels are. I only got to spend one night shift in a mine running it and I’ve never run any other machine that large, so I really don’t have anything to compare it to. All I know is that it is one sweet machine to run.
? One thing I just noticed on that picture of the PC-2000; the final drives are on the loading side of the machine? Is it always run like that? Or is that a special circumstance when the picture was taken? As recommended by the mechanic's I've worked with; excavators (especially larger excavators) should always dig with the finals under the counterweight to increase life of the finals. It also adds a little stability to the machine.
its close, but its still on topic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLAFAM0MVrc
The contractor is Kokosing Construction, and we never dig over the tram motors. I was turned around talking to my gps tractor operater, who was pushing down the shot for me. My opinion is a little biased since the pc2000 is a new machine it has 1600hrs and the others had 7-15000 hrs on them, but they were well maintained. So my comparison should still be fair. The pc2000 smokes em both, very well balanced machine I loaded a single rock that weighed 61 ton and got the stick out half the stroke past vertical before it started getting light,and handle a full bucket any where. The production, 270 is a common load count in 10 hrs on 777f's, last week I broke 300 three nights.The best I ever got out of the 5130 ME or FS was 270, 180-220 average with 777d's. In a good shot the FS was faster, we worked a 40' face I tried to load the bucket up at bed level of the trucks to cut down lifting time, and let the face trickle down. In a rough dig the ME did better it didn't slow it down like the FS.There were 3 ME's on the job 2 had longer sticks the other operaters liked them for the reach, I didn't like them, you were constantly building up the bench to keep them level,at full extend could lift a track over the side empty with a little jerk. I ran all three but mostly the short stick and felt it was the best machine. The 1800 had good balance,it was removing overburden off coal, we worked a 60' face with the excavator set on a 12' bench digging out of a "honey hole" letting the face trickle down, swinging 90-120* every pass, then filling the hole and moving forward to the highwall, then pulling the bench back and doing it again. Got 150-170 loads on777d's a shift, which isn't bad for that type of dig, but hard to compare to a production dig on a road job. The 5130 had the best visibility of the three, and probably the best cab set-up, but the 2000 is new and we keep it spotless. I also like the boom by-pass and cushion options on the 2000. The by-pass switch is common on most komatsu's on light setting it won't let the machine lift itself with down pressure. The cusion swith,when on, doesn't let movements stop immediatly, like when your at full boom up and let go of the stick, it takes another 18"-2' for the boom to stop, rather than the jerk of stopping 80-100 ton of boom and load. Thats my 2 cents, comments welcome
It looks like he was digging over the correct side and was just swung around at the time when the photo was taken. *edit* Sorry mass-x it appears he already answered, I guess this is why you need to make sure you don't wait two hours to reply to a topic without checking for updates;-) Welcome aboard digger132:drinkup :drinkup Would you also be known as Mr. 2000 on DHS?:usa
yea, that's me, gonna change names over there before long won't have that machine much longer, but I"m gonna dig forever.
Digger: we never dig over the tram motors. I was turned around talking to my gps tractor operater, who was pushing down the shot for me. My bad, I see it now. The cut is actually to the left of the machine in the picture. 270 is a common load count in 10 hrs on 777f's What is the average load time on a truck? Can the PC2000 turn out a 777 in less than 2 minutes? In a rough dig the ME did better it didn't slow it down like the FS.There were 3 ME's on the job In a side by side comparison of the machines, say two 5130’s, one FS, the other ME, in that shot rock material which one had a faster turn out time on the trucks? I’ve heard mixed opinions about the production speeds of ME vs. FS based largely on the type of material being worked.
Because its big does that mean its slow - What I mean is surely every function must be slower than a 20 tonner otherwise you could do some serious damage?? Also does it ever get a bit boring using such a huge machine as I imagine the work would be more repetitive than say using a 20 tonner on a building site. Or is that bull and its just the best job in the world??
A PC 2000 Komatsu @ 15 to 15.5 yrd bucket i could load my trucks real fast in our pit in 1 to 1&1/4 buckets considering my 16' Ox beds hold 18 to 21 yrds make the 225 Cat look like a baby later yall bulldog
pc2000 will load a truck in 90 seconds, the fill and length of haul has had a big affect on production, it's always something starting out the fill was only 4 trucks wide, so sometimes the trucks were waiting to dump, or we were filling in bottle necks, or a utility crew had things messed up. now the fill is opened up and the cut has come down so the trucks aren't crawling up it to the pit. I'm not waiting, there's a truck waiting to be loaded all the time, which is why I've had the increase last week, will probably see more nights of 300. Material had alot of effect on load times for the FS, in gravy it loaded in 90 seconds but I couldn't keep that pace because I'd have to work the floor to keep it level. We loaded SE 6'- it would take 3-4 minutes to load, but the material was just fractured to maintain the large size, this is were the FS showed its strength breaking out. We dug a 20' face I could dig in at 10' and break out to the top, which would lossen material for 3 or 4 more cycles. The ME's would load most any material in 2 minutes, no difference in the long or short dipper, just more aggrevating keeping level on the bench with the long stick.
:usa I am a little bias to the 5130. I've spent about 600 hrs on it while only about 20 on ex1800. I agree with an earlier post about the 5130 having more visability but the 1800 hydraulics react alot faster, maybe more so because due to weight to power ratio. But i think down the stretch a cat is better in the U.S. due to the parts availabilty and service programs. But for my age and expirence im am just lucky to have run eithe of them. Also has anyone had a problem with hydraulic pumps failing due to cylinder packing in the pump on a 5130. :usa
I run a 5230 here and there, even though it is worn out it is still a decent mucker. We load 789's in 5 1/2 passes I would like to try one out like your running.
5seriescat we had 4 5130's (3ME'S, 1FS) replaced 1 swing bearing, 3 oil coolers(1 failed cat had a new design so they replaced other 2) This happened when they spread the shot pattern(tryin' to save a $).
Drives to rear. Hi, MassX. You might like to have another look at that photo of the PC2000. I think it is parked turned away from the digging face, which appears to me to be in fron of where the idlers are positioned. Just my 0.02.
kamatsu I havnt run any thin remaotly close to the size of the excavators you are running:notworthy but i have run deer up to 992 cat from 315 up to 330 and kamatsu 200s and i think that the kamatsu out digs tham all. i hate to say it but i think kamatsu has the corner on the excavator market like i say havnt run any thing that big but in the smaller ones anyway:beatsme :beatsme
Digger132, you must be on Route35.
Hell Id love a personal 345...
I have to disagree with you here, I have operated several Komatsus (pc200-220) and cats (320-322-325-330) and I think that equally configured, the cat just slices right through the ground. I think the drive motors are more powerful, also.
All I know is in construction equipment this month that pc2000 goes for 2.1 million and wieghs 443,000#. That is one big ass excavator especially for road work. Must be one hell of a road project. Transporting that thing to each project must be a hell of a job in of it self. Heck moving it probably cost a small fortune.
5130 I had the pleasure of running a 5130 while our lead was out on vacation, while i have run a larger hitatchi's 1100. While i ran the 1100 day in day out for almost 2 years with not much more than a couple altenator problems and some leaky hydraullic pumps it was very dependable, while the 5130 never ran for more than 2 to 3 weeks with out atleast 1 or 2 days of down time:beatsme . It only went 2 to 3 months between semi-major breakdown:Banghead . While i am a CAT man to the bone i would stray away from the 5 series cats.:usa
Funny you should say that our 5230 just had manifolds crack and ruin the valves!!! Down Hard!
That's one heck of a road project you got going on there digger132! Crazy break on that 5130 Hi MMSOCAL its great to have another So. Cal. member on board!:usa where abouts are you located?? I'm down in the orange county area... not to many ex1100 or 5130's come down here often but here's a few I caught maybe one of them is you
Smalltime, Yea I'm working on 35, got about 2 months(weather permitting) left on mass excavation. I'll probably be done with the big dog. newjcb123uk asked if it got boring running these big hoes, in the mines, yes, on this road job its not bad, the cuts are small 200-800 thousand c/yds so I"m bringing down the pre-split, or pluggin' out, or pullin' finish grade 1 of the 3, 2or 3 times a week. The last big road job had 3 cuts 2-4 million c/yds each, it was just bailin' dirt "boring". I took this machine because it was brand new, and I wanted to see if there was a big difference from the older machines, there wasn't much. As for the speed set a 20 ton machine at 3/4 throttle and that's about it. One thing the big hoes will teach you is effeciancy, I often test some of these techniques on smaller hoes, and get some odd looks for the work I put out at 2/3rds throttle. LIVE and LEARN. and no offence to the miners out there, I've always worked construction and like to finish a job and move on, can't see myself digging the same hole year after year. To each his own. Thanks for all the comments Gregg
I am up in L.A. county where the 605 meets the 210 near the irwindale speedway. I am no longer on the job where i run either, im running a 375 for better wages and better hours working for another contractor in the area. :usa
Wow, a 200 tonner on a roadjob? I was on a kiewit road-job where they had a Komatsu 1250 loading 769Ds and I thought that was insane... Apparently they sent that PC1250 to another job and brought in a 385C to replace it. I guess it was a bit overkill or something. :beatsme This thread makes me want to hand in my resume to Kiewit again, they're starting on the Wuskwatim dam not too far from my neck of the woods and I know they're bringing in 773 trucks, some big hoes are probably on their way... Fun fun fun.
In my area 150 ton+ is the norm on roadwork, I've been in cuts from 150' to 500' deep side cuts on mountains, up to 4 million c/yds in a single cut, 7-12 million c/yds on the job, and move it in a year and a half or less, the job I'm on now is looking like 7 million in 6-7 months. These guys don't mess around. The contractor was considering a pc 3000, but the cost of mobilization was to much, the pc 2000's are 11 truck loads "cha-ching".
Now that's the way to do it. :thumbsup
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums MMSOCAL! :drinkup
Kokosing will have the mobilizing of that PC 2000 down to a science shortly. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if they bought a 3000 someday. Any details on this dam project involving Kiewitt?
http://www.hydro.mb.ca/projects/wuskwatim/status.shtml Neat job. Tempting to go work there since it's like a mere 8 hour drive away, but I probably won't go...
You must work for kokosing?i saw those excavators just after assembally close to winfield wv
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Had a girlfriend like that once, you take that back! :laugh Sreiously those are some big teeth.
big hoes depends on the size of the bucket
I amy not be the best person to comment on that but these guys might be the right people to refer to: http://www.constructionmachinerycompany.com
I'm currently operating a Komatsu pc1250-7 sp in a gold mine near kalgoorlie Western Australia working 2 10.5 hr shifts loading 777d's usualy working a 2.5m bench we are avraging 120-130 loads pershift with a truck haul of 30mins return for waste and 25 mins return for ore. there are a few 2000 poping up arround the golfeilds area usualy matched with cat 785 trucks. the company i am working for are looking at up sizing the fleet to 785s and a 2000 for a pit planned to start some time toward the end of next year.
looks right to me?you can see where the bench is dug out in front of the idlers.that is the direction it is digging it just swung around to clean up or to pull or load the side of the bench,at least that is how i see it.looks like another pass for the soil nails.
00ps sorry mass ex i didn't realise there were more pages to this thread until i posted sorry,i got looking at the picture and did not pay attention.
The company I work for has a hitachi 1900, komatsu 1800, hitachi 1100, two 1250 komatsu's and a 2500 hitachi shovel. I have ran alot of the 1800 and too much of the 1100 aka "the penatly box". Most of the guys I have talked to who have ran the 1800 and the 1900 prefer the 1900 but the 1900 was bought new last year where as the 1800 was bought used with 3000 hours two years ago.
So how are you liking Thompson to work for? What are you doing for them? Brian
Hey alco, I think it's fair to say I like working for thompson, started working with them a few years ago and dont have too many complaints. I usually run hoe or dozer for one of the supers who mostly builds road. Sometimes I end up at one of the sites for a bit between jobs. Alco, I have read a few of your posts and was just wondering are you out of syncrude? Do you work for syncrude or North american?
Hi HoJay, Yep, I am out of Syncrude. I work for Syncrude itself at Base Mine. Glad to hear you like Thompson, I've never really heard anything bad about them. Myself, I'm spoiled now, not too sure I could ever go back to a real job in construction. I just go to work, put in my time, and try not to beat any truckers...I mean...ummmm Brian
Nice pics, awesome machine. Trbo
Not to brag or anything but i am younger than 20 and i have ran a Hitatchi 1200 before. Loved the power!
Digger thanks for the mass excavator pictures and all the posts. I remember when hydraulic was trying to compete with cable, took like 25 years to develop. You have plenty of hills to dig through in WV!