Got a 2019 CAT299D2 that I bought new. It's got 335 hrs on it and it started blowing black smoke and losing power. I changed both the primary fuel and water separator filters. New air filters too. I noticed the primary fuel filter does not fill all the way up. I replaced the transfer pump. I took the head apart for the water separator and cleaned it out. I checked the check valve on it. I can see it open with a little compressed air. I drained some fuel from the bottom of the fuel tank and didn't see any dirt. I blew air into the line from the transfer pump to the fuel tank. Blew air into the return line to the tank. Serial number on it is FD205164. I took the turbo and exhaust manifold off to make sure there were no restrictions. When it first happened, it showed a 132-1 code but haven't seen it come back and it has a new mass air flow sensor. I replaced that when I seen that code. I have CAT ET and it really isn't showing nothing. Any ideas would be much appreciated. I posted a pic of how much fuel is staying in the primary filter.
Black smoke is too much fuel or not enough air.
According to the O&M Manual that is normal for a new filter. As the screen gets plugged the bowl will fill up with fuel. "The clear plastic in-line filter attached to the bottom of the lift pump will have air present when the filter is new. As debris accumulates in the filter, the air will purge from it."
I noticed in ET it shows commanded air flow and then what the machine is actually registering. If it’s not seeing what’s commanded, would you think possibly the turbo is causing issues or maybe a leak in the inter cooler?
Can you check and see how high you can get boost pressure in ET? Full throttle and load hydraulics, should see atmospheric plus 10 psi. Approx
With the engine not running it shows 14 pounds of boost. Is that normal? Never really changes. I’ve seen it say 15psi a few times. Hard to to get a good reading cause it falls on it face when you load it. I tested the boost sensor with a DVM and in ET. If I pull a vacuum the voltage and boost drop. If I apply air pressure the voltage and boost pressure rise. After about 1600 rpm’s or so, I notice in ET it can’t keep up with the commanded mass air flow. It’s asking for more but doesn’t get it, it just levels off like it can’t get anymore air. My atmospheric pressure is staying around 14.3 ish.
If there is only one sensor and it is measuring atmospheric pressure (around 14.7psi) then yes. Any nett boost would be a pressure in excess of atmospheric, so if the number given above by @ozarkag is correct then you ought to see around 25psi on the intake air pressure sensor, (15psi atmospheric + 10psi boost). Have you taken a look inside the intake at the condition of the turbo.?
Yes, I had the turbo completely off. I miss read what ozarkag said being atmospheric plus. So I moved it around as much as I could. It's only generating one pound of boost. The intake was clean on the turbo, no shaft movement, nothing seemed out of the ordinary with it. Could the exhaust being going out the EGR and bypassing the turbo if the EGR valve is stuck open? I know ET shows it's position. Is it possible for it not to read it right?
The 299D was a rare unit when I was wrenching at the dealer so I can't give you much in the way of my own experience. Is the turbo on there waste gated? If so is the waste gate stuck open or not staying closed? I don't know exactly how the EGR system on that unit works but I have seen the valve stick open on other machines and cause smoking.
The turbo has a waste gate. It moves freely when disconnected. I used a little air and can make it open and close. I’m going to check the egr valve tomorrow and see what I find.
Egr valve was fine. Pressured checked the CAC and it was fine. It runs a tad bit better now but if you put a load on it, it loses power and smokes. ET shows that it can’t keep up with commanded mass air flow. And it never really makes any boost per the sensor. Any other ideas what to check? Would anybody possibly have the same model they could plug ET in to compare what values you see for air and fuel.
I think I would try to get a mechanical gauge on it to see what it says
Never saw it in a Cat, but this engine in the Kubota machines is known to break the aluminum intake manifold and dump all your boost. Just one more place to check for a boost leak.
I’ll get a mechanical boost gauge and check the intake too.
Could this unit have valves way out of adjustment, and not breathing properly, or an exhaust that is partially plugged. Have seen a few times in my career. Simple check no money. Simon C
I blew the exhaust completely out on it when I had the turbo off. Mechanical gauge confirms 1 pound of boost. I took some soapy water and sprayed on the intake to see if I could see a possible leak. Didn’t see anything and can’t see any cracks visibly from what I can see without taking it off.
Is there a procedure for adjusting the valves? Unless anybody can think of something else, I guess it’s time to tear into it and see if something is out of adjustment or broke internally.
I'm sure there is a proceedure to adj valves on sis. I was just wondering if you checked discharge pressure on both sections of pump with no imputs for pressure and hyd pump pressure with no imput for pressure just wondering if pumps are going back to what they used to call low pressure standby. Witch is min.discharge on pumps
are talking about checking the hydraulic pump?
and drive pumps I would think cat would list what pressure should be with no imputs for flow just wondering if something is sticking the swash plates
Will ET show that?
It might Ive been retired for a while so I couldnt definatly tell you
I’ll hook it backup and check it out. I’ll try anything at this point. When you go to drive it is when it falls on its face. Moving the hydraulics around don’t seem to affect it but it’s also hard to put a load on the hydraulics when I can’t move it.
Try racking bucket back the whole way and putting loader frame down as far as it will go and hold them for a few seconds and see what engine does
Falls on it face and let’s out black smoke
Ok then with both drive and hyd doing the same thing to engine. I'm going back to engine did you look at valve that is 3776964 it is number 7 in 4832792 lines group air is it possibly stuck shut???
When I took it off it was open, I can try to see if will cycle open and closed properly while watching it. ET shows it is functioning
I had a buddy at work that always said when you had a problem that drove you crazy like this it was going to turn out to be something stupid. from what i can find some of these or all of them had a air to air after cooler is it posible a hose is seperating inside and causing a restriction ?
It does have a cac. I pressure tested it with the hoses on. Took it off and looked inside. It was clean as can be. Ran some simple green through it just to make sure nothing was clogged. Made sure the hoses looked good, cleaned them out. I sprayed some soapy water around the hoses and connections to see if I could see anything possibly leaking.
Did you check the reed valves that are part of 484-0224 cooler group number 4 on parts list don't really know if it's posible for boost to push back through cooler and out the exhaust but maybe worth a look
I took them off and cleaned them. I thought maybe the egr valve maybe sticking open letting boost out. But the valve opens and closes as it should didn’t appear to be leaking.
Checked the valves, they were all fine. Set to .25mm for both intake and exhaust. Anything else I should check while it’s open?
Still believe most likely a boost leak somewhere. A split hose can look perfectly fine till it gets a little pressure. Manifold leaks can be on the bottom and impossible to see without a mirror or camera. Try using air pressure to test entire system. There will likely be some air leaking thru to exhaust side, but should be able to verify a leak,
If I translated and understood everything correctly, I dare to assume that the impeller of the turbine has separated from the shaft, the shaft rotates the impeller a little, a little pressure (pressurization, supercharging) is still created, the sensors fix it and the emergency mode is not shown. But the working hours are very small, and I refuse to believe that CAT allowed such quality.
Definitely going to pressure test it again. The intake manifold is a lot easier to see now that the fuel lines are off. Was going to revisit the turbo again too and make sure I didn’t miss anything there. Appreciate all your input. Hopefully I get it figured out soon.
I pressure tested it from the hose off of the turbo. I had a small leak right around the stud on my grid heater. It would be like having a super slow leak in tire is what it bubbled up like. Talked to another mechanic, he said he didn’t believe that would be enough to cause to run so bad. He recommended having the injectors tested. Called an injector place and they said all the numbers can be good for rail pressure but still have one that’s possibly over fueling.
Well the injection shop said they can’t get specs for that injector. So they don’t have anything to compare it to. Denso won’t release the specs is what they told me.
While you were in there did you grab hold of the wheels on both sides (turbine & compressor) of the turbo to check for the possibility of a broken shaft.? Also a look inside the air intake line between the turbo and the engine for the presence of any oil.
I grabbed both the intake and exhaust impellers on the turbo and they spin together. If I hold one tight the other won’t spin. If I shove my finger down in the turbo out the discharge to the CAC, there’s a little oily residue but it isn’t coated in oil.
Well that proves the turbo shaft isn't broken. Another box ticked.
Could a bad injector be causing this is issue? Does anybody have access to SIS to see what it says about code 132-1? I know it has to do with air flow through the maf being low.
Does the diagnostics still not show any errors?
132-1 - Engine Inlet Air Mass Flow Rate : Low - Most Severe (3) Troubleshooting - "Sensor Signal (Analog, Active) - Test"
It’s only threw 132-1 code a couple times. The only thing that ET shows is that commanded air flow is never meant. But as far as the rest of the diagnostics, they haven’t been helpful. Thank you for nige for the information
Would anybody happen to know what the torque spec is for the fuel injector hold down bracket is?
The sensor that registers this parameter is working, have you checked it? I encountered incorrect engine operation due to a malfunction of the mass air flow sensor.
See attachment.
Yes, 2 different sensors, same results
might be time for a compression check, are you sure you don't have bad fuel as well?
I was just looking thru my tier 4 final stuff saw somethig That made me wonder Does that machine have a dpf ? If it does how is smoke getting past filter?
got the injectors out. Going to run a compression test on it once I get a tester that will work for it. I’ve drained the fuel out of it.
Does anybody know if there’s a compression kit out there that has the right adapter for the injector to check compression?
Never heard of one. Most people cut up an old injector to make an adapter.
I don't know about the newest engines but cat was never very big on compression tests. but I have seem some engines use a adapter in glowplug hole that might be a possibilty if you have glow plugs
Still fighting this issue. One thing I noticed is that with the intercooler hose disconnected from the intake manifold, the MAF values go up quite a bit if you rev it up they get higher than they ever do being connected. Hook it up while running and they drop quite a bit.
Have read the entire post. Have any pressure gauges been hooked up to check common rail pressure. Am assuming it is common rail. Simon C
No just monitoring what cat et says for rail pressure
I don’t have a set of gauges that measure that much pressure. Guess I’ll look into getting some.
Read post#50 from Pittsburg Cat Man and read the 2 info pages from Cat. Am also wondering if the DPF could be plugged, as the paper states that some smoke can pass through. He might be right, hard to know without doing further testing. One thing foresure, any engine with a mainly plugged exhaust will have zero power. Read what he posted if you have not yet. Simon C
I will check that too. When I had the turbo off, I blew thru exhaust both ways with a leaf blower and it seemed like a lot of air was flowing thru the exhaust.
Did you ever find the problem? I have a 2018 299D2 XHP doing the same thing and can’t seem to find the problem.
Serial Number.? Any Active Codes.?