Just purchased a used 2020 333g with 820 hrs from a local dealer. Serial number: 1T0333GMJKF367897 I also purchased a brand new Fecon 7618 mulcher. It was delivered to my property yesterday morning and I got to work. It was 28 degrees and within 30 minutes of running at full RPM I got an overheat alarm and required me to shut down. I was shocked. Brush was not big in my opinion. I let it cool down and opened up the compartment to make sure everything was clean. No visual blockages from debris but blew it out with compressed air anyway. Fired it back up and ran it at 2000 rpm’s and was able to go for a couple hours with no issue and no high temp. Kept the display on the hyd temp which was running around 175-185. Trying to figure out why I can’t run full throttle, rev fan is working. It looks like I have the white fan which from what I understand is an older version? Not sure. I’m super new to the track loaders but mechanically inclined. Any insight would be great! Thanks! Billy
Make sure the flow to the attachment is set in a loop setting not in a double acting. As in the flow is able to run through the attachment back through the filter to the tank and not back through the valve. I also like to check the hydraulic couplers to the attachment if applicable. They can sometimes cause reactions. Also, check to see if the attachment motor has a case drin and make sure that is not excessive. Just some quick checks to start with.
Oh and welcome to HEF
Correction (cause restrictions)
Welcome to HEF Biilyg371 ! Retrieve the specific code/codes from your monitor and post them please. Need to know if it is engine overheat, hydraulic overheat, or both. Once we know which circuit, I would suggest a temperature gun to confirm it is in fact that hot. Look at your fan. Is it turning? When the temperature goes up, is it turning faster? When the alarm comes on, is the fan screaming?
No active codes, it is hydraulic temp. Engine temp is sitting around 165. Working on getting a temp gun. Fan seems to turn the same speed as what the engine is set at but I would have to confirm that with a photo tach.
Was the attachment set up for the specs of the JD? Assuming there is nothing wrong with the CTL, I would say that either the motor in the Fecon is too small creating a restriciton to flow, or the settings on the Fecon are incorrect, also creating a restriction to flow. When I set up my Diamond Mower mulcher to my machine, the Eaton motor had to be set up for the flow and PSI to my 450B. Even if Fecon said it would work on that machine, that doesn't mean that someone actually set it up or that they did it correctly.
Do this immediately. You have to confirm with temp readings that the hydraulics are actually overheating to continue. Have you flash lighted the inside part of the hydraulic cooler core? It can be a bitch to see but it's important to check for grass/dirt obstruction.
Working on getting this done this week. I was unaware that it needed to be tuned, I figured the dealer would have done that before delivery. I was able to tune the drum speed to the correct rpm per Fecon (2400) but I did not have a gauge to check the shift pressure.
Where should I shoot temp? Radiators on the left side of the machine, the little one that rotates out when you remove the pin I have looked through and blown out along with the one behind it. One on the right side of machine I have also blown out. Thanks for all the help. This is my first track loader. Service manual ordered so I should be in good shape.
Air won't penetrate packed dirt. you will have to pressure wash with water from the outside in. A garden hose will not put out enough pressure either so I wouldn't waste my time doing that.
I’ll take a look. I couldn’t see any packed dirt in either of them.
Yea it should have been set up for the machine before they sent it out the door. Mulching is its own beast, if your dealer doesn't sell a lot of these, they likely had no idea. Because it got hot so fast, I would bet that it was going over relief quickly, which heats up the hyd in short order. Reducing the RPM lowers the GPM, which would explain why it last longer before it got hot. Hopefully once it is set up everything works as it should.
Well the tech came out yesterday and tuned the machine. Told me to sent the machine RPM to 2500. Well 45 mins after cutting little stuff in 68 degree weather I got another high temp hydraulic alarm. He’s going to look into the machine side of things and service history as it was service religiously at their dealer. Hopefully they can figure out why the hydraulics are getting hot.
After they get it figured out, please let us know what they find out, I would like to hear. Hopefully the dealer stands behind the machine. Unless there was some kind of extended warranty on it, they likely will have to pay to fix it, that could be expensive.
He’s out here now, tuning the head again. Says machine is okay. But the pump on the Fecon is hot for sure.
Have the tech perform a case drain leakage test for the auxiliary quick couplers. I suspect there might be leakage in the quick coupler manifold.
Little update, they ordered the flow adjuster for the Fecon because it seems like it’s not adjusting properly. But told me I can run it at 2000 rpm’s for the time being. Well I ran it this morning with no issue, got back in after lunch and ran for 15mins. Now I have an high engine oil temp. Before I shut it down I hopped out to check the fan and it was not turning. Looked like it was trying to but wasn’t. Quick shut it down and now cooling off. Idk what I should do about this thing. Hopefully the dealer can come pick it up and get it sorted out.
Was it engine oil temp or coolant temp? Maybe once this gets fixed, you may want to consider an extended warranty. While new parts can fail, it doesn't sound like they are for sure its the Fecon. I am now curious if its not a fan engagement issue from the beginning.
Good question, I thought the other digital gauge on the display was engine oil temp? But it could be engine coolant temp. Yeah I don’t think they know exactly what’s going on. I let it cool down again and pulled the head off and put the bucket on. Within 15 mins the digital gauge temp was back up to 190 while yesterday I never saw that gauge higher than 165. I appreciate the help. Im trying to learn as much as I can
I am betting it was engine coolant. I am not a Deere guy, but I don't think that they monitor oil temp. I would leave it parked until they pick it up. Last thing you need now is to create more problems with overheating it.
Yes, that’s the plan. They are picking it up Monday morning. It looks like it was engine coolant. I’m surprised they don’t have an engine temp or oil temp. Hopefully they can figure it out quick. Only bought the thing to clear my land.
If the fan stopped, make sure they cut open the filter to inspect it. Make sure they save it for you to view. If it is clean, then the most likely culprit may be a piece of plastic shaving from the making of the reservoir jamming the fan control. If it is full of metal..... They should also perform a charge pump pressure and flow test to make sure the charge pump is sound.
Yeah I’m not sure what the fan stopping would have to do with a filter? Can you explain? Let it cool all the way down yesterday to move it and the fan was spinning as it should. I’m not sure what I can check. I do have a temp gun but unsure on what/where to shoot.
Temperature gun will not help with determining the cause of the fan stopping. The fan is stopping because there is debris getting into the fan solenoid causing the fan to stop. The fan should never stop turning, no matter how cold the engine or hydraulic system. The reason for cutting open and inspecting the filter is that the oil that leaves the fan motor goes to the hydrostatic charge filter. So, cutting open the filter to inspect it is to help find a clue as to the cause of the fan not turning. Based on your serial number, you have high flow, and the 333G's have high flow pump issues. Inspecting the filter may reveal a pending failure. Let's hope that is not the case. Your machine should be new enough to have the more robust high flow pump.
I understand. I wasn’t sure if the fan was electrical or hydraulic. That makes sense. Hopefully they can figure it out. Dealer has been good. They said they’re going to make it right.
Little update, dealer picked up last Tuesday and called on Friday. Tech said the fan was spinning about 500 rpm less than it should be at full RPM. They are replacing the fan, and other necessary components. I will get an exact list today. Once they replace that they will test and see if issue is resolved. Also sending a sample of the hyd oil per John Deere.
Oh Boy!! Take lube with you!
They are actually taking care of it. Whether that is the dealer or John Deere I’m not sure. Being that I just purchased it from the dealer and it was sold to me as it was working as it should when there is clearly an issue.
I’m sure they already have one going scene Deere is asking for oil samples, But make sure they have a DTAC case going on it. And if you want to keep them on their toes ask for a copy of it. Reading those usually can give you an idea of competence level of the Tech/Techs involved in the repair.
I will ask. Just asked what was being done and the tech replied “I’m installing the truflow fan system upgrade”
Spoke with tech more and there is no dtac case yet. Deere has not asked for the samples. I may have mis heard him. He basically said dtac is a last ditch if he is stumped. Right now they’re waiting on the fan parts from Deere and they will go from there.
I don't think any dealer would supply a copy of the actual case. I wouldn't. The latest upgrade is a different fan motor and fan blade. It will raise the fan speed from approximately 2500 rpm to 3000 rpm. That is providing that the charge pump is putting out. They should have flow tested the pump to be sure it is sound. Also, they should have cut open and inspected the filter as well as performed an oil sample (I would not wait for Deere to ask for this). New fan motor and fan blade might be a temporary fix if they do not find the source of the fan stopping.
I believe they ordered the fan parts due to it being about 500rpm off of what it should be. Tech also said he is testing the charge pump this week just like you said to make sure it’s putting out. Not sure if they cut the filter. The fan stopped only once. Not sure why. Waiting to hear from tech to see what he finds on the charge pump. All I know is that they sold me the machine with the new mulching head and said it works as it should and it didn’t. Hopefully it has the more robust pump in it already and it isn’t failing but if it is they will take care of it. I hope.
Which is why they should be paying the bill for all of this.
Correct! And so far I haven’t heard a peep about them not covering the repairs. They have been great to work with honestly. I think they are short handed on experienced techs which is understandable in today’s world. The tech working my machine also is the field tech and he has been slammed with warranty work so I understand.
Spoke with the service manager today, they are replacing the fan, fan hydraulic motor, relief valve and something else I can’t quite remember. All 4 things are well documented with John Deere as being issues. Unfortunately parts are backordered and won’t be in until the end of the month and that’s if the date doesn’t get pushed back more. But they are indeed covering everything and deliver it back to me with a full tank of fuel. Can’t really complain with their service. Glad they are getting this handled so I can get back to clearing my land to start our dream home and farm! Thanks everyone for the knowledge. I’ll keep updates coming when I get them.
Well guys the machine was delivered back to me today. Ran it for 30 mins and WOT and the hydraulics came up to 220. I’m at a loss on what to do. They installed the updated fan, said they tested everything out and had no issues. Operates as it should. Well I cut some small brush down and it was getting hot. Coolant temp came up to 190 one time but then dropped to 175 and stayed there. I’m going to call them tomorrow to figure out what I should do. I solely bought this machine to mulch and if I have to stop every 30 minutes it will be a pain in the ass. Temps here today were 65 degrees. Feeling let down and bummed is an understatement.
Here is a photo of what they did.
Something is getting overlooked for some reason. Did they pay for this bill you posted?
Yes they covered this bill. The tech actually just called me because I sent him some photos of the temps. Said he’ll be out tomorrow at 9am to jump in it and mulch some to see if he can replicate it.
Can you post some pics of your mulching set-up? Also, pics of the auxiliary connectors and the hoses.
Tell that tech to take a pressure relief gauge reading at the auxiliary pressure port and record that pressure. Then reconnect the line to the mulcher and stall it and record that pressure. If the pressure with the mulcher stalled is less than the pressure line deadheaded, then you have leakage in the mulcher drive motor that could be creating your heating problem.
Let me know if you need any more
I'm wondering if those quick couplers are restricting the flow somewhat. That would cause heating.
What is the alternative? I also picked up a root rake grapple that has 1/2in flat faced couplers. I need to get 3/4 so it fits mine. Where can I find those?
As mentioned in post #17, make sure the tech performs the Quick Coupler case drain leakage test. I did not see that on the invoice. There have been many failures of the O-ring inside the coupler manifold allowing oil to leak to the case drain circuit. Also, the invoice does not mention a charge pump flow test being performed, cooling package inspections, or return screens being inspected for debris (especially since the original fan speed was so low). While 2800 rpm should be fast enough, especially at 65* ambient, the Tru-Flo setup is supposed to reach 2900-3200 rpm at a test temperature of 150*F.
Well the tech came out and ran the mulcher for 2 hours and temp never got over 210 for hydraulics. I then got in it and had him watch me. I got it up to 215. I believe I was running it too fast if that’s possible. But I feel like it shouldn’t run that high but maybe with the mulcher on that’s how it is. I’m not sure. Do I get a second opinion even though it will cost me out of pocket?
Red Stop Light comes on at 221*. Did he perform the quick coupler manifold leakage test? Need to eliminate that as a possible cause.
No he did not. He didn’t do anything else because he said it was working as it should. Said I was going to fast mulching therefore that’s why it was heating up quick
Question........are you running this until an overheating alarm comes on?
well, looks like they are being very thorough with their troubleshooting then. Big mistake there...........
More so just watching temp come up and then stopping until it goes down. No overheat alarm since it’s been back from the dealer.
I guess I’m not sure what a normal operating temp for the hydraulics is. 200-210 may be normal? I watched the tech run it for an hour an it never hit the alarm. I did think he was going slow. I may have to do this trouble shooting on my own
Run it like you normally do and see if the alarm goes off. Sometimes attacents like that will run hotter but below the alarm spec.
I don't know Deere, but I can't believe that 210 on the hydraulics should be normal. That allows you an 11 degree increase before the lights come on especially when the ambient temps are that low. Something clearly isn't right. What about running a different mulcher or high flow mower (or see if they have a different 333 and see where that machine runs) and try to isolate the problem down to one or the other? It appears to me, the hyd fluid is getting hot through a relief problem or flow problem. Getting 215 in an hour, unless your constantly plugging the mulcher and forcing it over relief is not the way it should run. I can run at 90 degrees ambient for half a day in thick material before I start creeping into the 215 to 220 area, mostly due to the intakes start getting plugged with material. I thought initially that your couplers on the machine were .5 but I see they are .75 which is about as large as you can go. I don't think that is the issue. You shouldn't have to fix this on your own. I think by doing so your accepting the machine as it is. I think that could be a costly mistake. I would compel them to fix it or give you something else, or give you your money back and pick differently.
I’m not really sure how to go about them fixing it when they think it’s operating as it should. I don’t have access to another mulcher or cutter. I may call Fecon to see what they think.
I also need to put tracks on it. They were pretty bad when I purchased it and I knew that but since I got it back they are about to break so I’m putting tracks on it tomorrow and I’m going to run it some. I’m just not sure how to go about talking to them about this.
I would try and find some mulching forums. One I heard of years ago that I think is on FB is called Mulcher Mafia. I would get on these forms and ask other people who run the 333 and see what kind of temps they are seeing. Get some other input and confirm where that machine should be running, if your dealer is right, then you have what you have. If they are not (which I hope is the case), I would park that thing at their door. Before I get too far out on my skis, I would wait to confirm where this thing should be running. However if the machine is running hot, you have a case that they fix it, or replace it or give you, your money back. The case to fix it being that all the work they have done so far, for free, says that they accept that the machine is not running correctly and is their responsibility to fix it. Just throwing up their hands and saying that it works like it should, is not option, at least would not be an option for me. Don't let them roll you over.
I appreciate the response. I will keep on them. I actually have a friend at another store (same company) reached out to him and he’s going to do some digging as well. Hopefully I can figure this out!
Little update that isn’t really great. Ran it today with a root rake grapple and saw 175 hydraulic temps and 195 coolant temps. I’m getting very frustrated.
Having read back through all of this, the problem has to be the fan or maybe the radiator. The heat problem fluctuates between hyd. and engine coolant. The reason the hyd temps stayed down this time was because the grapple bucket presents little resistance. I think MG's is on the right track pointing out that the pump that spins the fan was never actually checked. I don't envy you, hopefully the dealer will continue to work with you, however at some point they are going to cut you off whether that machine is fixed or not. I hope I am wrong, but by the dealer claiming it works as it should, tells me that day is getting close. Your probably going to have to make some financially painful decisions pretty soon. Pay someone else to work through this, trade the machine off on something else.
So another thing I had found is that I do not have 3/4 couplers. I have stock couplers on the machine. But I’m going to measure today to make sure. If anyone would like to help me brainstorm or just talk me off the ledge my number is 570-956-2081. I’m going to be working all day day, hopefully in the machine
We see many of these machines with this complaint. We have one in the shop now. Overheats when running a cold planer. We fix EVERY one of them successfully. There has to be a thoughtful systematic approach to troubleshooting these units. The obvious is checked like coolant level and condition, radiator cleanliness, baffles in place, fan turning, etc (we have seen many simple causes), but the red flag for me is the OP mentioned in post #18 that the fan stopped turning. The ONLY reason for the fan to stop turning is debris in the system. That fan HAS to be turning, always. The software never commands a fan to stop (except when reversing). So, what debris and where did it come from? That is why return screens and filters have to be inspected. Flow tests performed on the charge pump (have seen these fail) and possibly the main hydraulic pump and the high flow pump (have seen some failures with these causing the debris also). We have also seen our fair share of drive motor failures causing debris. So there are a lot of variables that have to be eliminated to reach a successful conclusion. After reading the tech's service report, someone just assumed the fix was the fan motor/blade update. Yes, many times that is the fix, but only when all the other variables have been eliminated. Run that thing until the alarm goes off, shoot a picture of the temperature, take that to the dealer and show them there is still an issue. Good luck with your machine. I hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.
Very much agree! ..........and remember, a mulcher's flow requirements are very different from a grapple and the way they operate hydraulically is apples and oranges.
One of the photos shows the coupler as .75 . Because the issue fluctuates between coolant and hyd, and they both cool by use of the fan, the fan is common denominator. I don't think it has anything to do with the couplers. Maybe you ask MG2361, if he is willing, speak to your service manager and lay out for them how to get to the bottom of the issue. It would be time well spent for the dealership, beyond just this machine.
I agree with all of this. If you can give me a buzz I would greatly appreciate it. 570-956-2081.
First thing that needs to be done is make it overheat (pictures, pictures, pictures) so there is evidence the overheat issue is still there, or the dealer will be blowing you off. If you cannot make it hot enough to overheat, you may have to wait until ambient gets high enough to help drive the temp over the top. I am not inclined to intrude into your dealer's domain. They can be very sensitive to intrusion from another dealer individual. Much of the information they need is already published by Deere in the manuals, in DTAC solutions as well as using some common sense.
Yeah I definitely can make it overheat. I was just looking to talk with you over the phone to run though everything that has gone on. And possible bounce some ideas off of you. With your knowledge I gather that you’re a tech yourself.
Called the dealer this morning and spoke to the service manager. Told him that it was still overheating even after going slow. He also said I should be able to go all day and not have an issue. I sent an email with photos of temps and suggestions from the responses here. He said he is going to do some digging and talk to a couple other locations they have to figure out what they need to do next. Hopefully I will have a working machine soon! I will keep everyone updated. Thank you!
Update! Finally received my machine back from the dealer. Had to reach out to Deere directly to get anything done. Deere had them perform a bunch of tests and came to the conclusion the thermal bypass valve under the cab was getting stuck closed allowing hot fluid back into the tank. Replaced valve and all new hydraulic oil and filter as well. Ran it today for probably 7 hours in 87 degree temps and hydraulic fluid never got above 188. Coolant temp was also good around 190-195. However, I had a little scare with debris smoldering in the belly pan directly underneath the engine. I luckily caught it quick enough to put some water down there and drop the access place to get it out before anything bad happened. Any tips on what I need to do to keep this thing from burning up on me? Especially now that it’s running great.
All that I have heard is that when mulching the engine compartment needs to be blown out every 4 hours or chance burning it down. Fine dust builds up and ignites. I have seen lots of pictures of burnt 333G or 331G machines. Blow out , refuel, grease ,inspect mulcher, and carry on is the message I read. I own a 332G on wheel but have never used a mulcher. But can tell you that on 80F day with my land leveller working full tilt on large lots the engine temp goes up to 200F and 185F on hydraulics fairly fast. Cools down fast if revved up and not moving for 5 minutes. Simon C
I do “blow it out” but I guess I’m not doing it correctly? Maybe someone can give me a procedure or something because the stuff that is smoldering in mine is directly under the oil pan. Only way to get it out is to pull the access panel and reach in there to scoop out.
Some junk can get in behind the engine on the sloped steel leading down to the bottom pan of machine. It has a hole about 2.5 inches in size on back side to access front engine mount on bottom side. I drilled 2 holes and put a plate over that hole with threads in the bolt holes. No more dirt or chips entering into engine compartment. Simon C
Do you mind sending a few photos? I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks
Will try to get a picture in next couple days as machine is not in my yard. Stored at a friends place. Was going to mention that when you are mulching there is fine powder in the air that will suck into the engine compartment, but if you find any areas between body and frame that will let air pass through, try to block with soft foam between. Mulching is bad, but try spreading fine gravel in the winter that is dry with clay silt in it. After a few buckets of spreading it out very thinly the dust covers the machine 1/8 of an inch from top to bottom. Have to blow it off every second bucket load. If you wet it it just turns to runny mud. I don't see any way out totally of your blowing it out. Will send picture as soon as I get it. Simon C
There are many places for debris to enter. Deere does offer a high debris kit for those machine's. We have installed several of them. Funny thing is, I don't recall anything plugging that opening at the rear engine mount. I looked through the kit instructions and could not find anything about that. Even with the kit, occasional cleaning will be required, just not as often.
Here is the picture of the back of my 2022 332G with an extra plate dead center of the bottom that I drilled and tapped two 8mm holes for a cover over the hole. You will also see the screen I built and added to the back to prevent anything from ever damaging my hydraulic fan. Sorry for taking so long as the machine is not at my house and I was overly busy. Simon C
Great job on the screen, its odd that Deere doesn't deflect the vents downward. I could see tree limbs going straight into the machine.
Tree branches have to bend some to get past the OEM guard. But if it does and hits the fan hope you have lots of spare money, and down time. Hence I put in a Ty-Wrapped screen to give the extra protection. I have 3/8 black rubber hose split down the middle and on top of original louvers in between for a cushion and to prevent vibration noise. Simon C
I'm having issues with a 2019 331G also having high hyd temps alarms while running a Rut Terminator XP brush mower. This is a standard flow machine (SN 1T0331GKKKF363222), the mower is rated for 25 gpm. Engine coolant temps are fine, but after mowing for 45 minutes or so I'm at 221-226 degrees on hyd temps. I have the old style arrangement for the thermal bypass (pic below). I've seen comments that Deere has covered this upgrade (214451) on some machines. Is it worth asking the dealer for this, or am I on my own (bought machine at auction)?
They eliminate the thermal bypass valve with what they call a Bypass Pressure Tee.
Right, but is there any program where Deere is picking up the cost for the update? I've seen a few guys say the dealer/JD are doing this at no charge.
As far as I know, there is a program for fan speed which involves a new fan and fan motor, but I am not aware of any programs for the thermal bypass. Being that I am not in management, and I do have access to much information, unfortunately, I do not have access to the list of programs Deere has available (FIP program). Someone at your dealer will have access. Ask them the check the FIP list to see if the thermal bypass is on it.