Have Cat 277c. the machine drives and operates the bucket. T thumb wheel on the left joystick does not work. So my attachments will not operate. I do have a new Yellow triangle light that appeared with the issue. I do not know what the code is as I have no screen on the right side for diagnostics. I have a wiring schematic and have traced the circuits to the throttle pedal and the left and right speed sensors. I have cleaned and inspected all the wires. I am going to check voltage and ground at all three locations. Is there a common problem for this issue and is there a way to "flash the code" using the yellow indicator lamp.
Don't you mean on the right joystick, or am I missing something.? Post a photo of your RH panel with the guages in it. There may be a way of getting into Codes that you are not aware of. Don't go too far with diagnostics yet until a few facts have been established. Additionally need a Serial Number.
277c CTJWF00483 Thumb wheel will not operate on left Joystick yes right side sorry. I will get you pictures
I was thinking that possibly you had some sort of optional joystick we've never seen before.
pics of both side 277c heads up display
277c CTJWF00483 Thumb wheel will not operate on right Joystick. Toooo many irons in the fire RIGHT joystick. I just copy and pasted my original thread. sorry about that,
I have replaced the joystick about 2 years ago. The machine is used but not daily.
I do have 8v at joystick and good ground
OK, so you have the single-gauge display. Unfortunately that isn't the one which allows you to access Diagnostic Codes. Under the RH joystick you will find two electrical connectors, a 6-pin and a 12-pin. The 12-pin is the one you are interested in. Do the procedure below. 1. Key OFF. Unplug the 12-pin connector then key ON. Measure the voltage between Pin 1 (wire P769-YL) & 2 (P770-WH). You should have 8.0+/-0.5v. 2. Key OFF, reconnect the 12-pin connector. 3. Key ON. Using a mulitmeter set to duty cycle measure by backprobing into the connector the signal between Pin 2 and Pin 3 (P996-GN). With the thumbwheel roller in the centre position the duty cycle should be around 50%. Roll it one way and it will go down to less than 10%, roll it the other way and it should rise to over 90%. Report your findings.
My meter does not measure frequency. I have 5v between pin 2 &3 at center position. The voltage does not change when thumb wheel is operated. I do not have duty cycle on my meter. I do Have just over 8v between pin 1 and 2
Would the thumb wheel give me a yellow triangle? The last time the switch went bad the yellow triangle never appeared. The switch just stopped working
You need a meter capable of measuring duty cycle, not frequency. They are two different parameters If you don't have a capable meter then until you can get one the diagnostics grind to a halt right here. I would not expect the voltage to change. The signal is oscillating rapidly between two voltage values LO & HI faster than your meter can measure the change from one to the other and back again. See the comment above. The warning is an indication of a Diagnostic Code for something. Without any evidence to confirm or deny the thumbwheel roller switch is as good a candidate as any. It is probably a bit more than a coincidence that the warning came up at exactly the same time that the AUX function quit working. It is possible that you have a 2204-3 Code for the thumbwheel roller switch, but without access to diagnostics it's impossible to tell. See this THREAD . Everything regarding duty cycle was explained in detail there.
I will get a meter to measure duty cycle
Please read the linked thread and ensure that you get a meter that actually works when measuring duty cycle. The whole thing was a bit of an odyssey.......
I have a meter now that reads duty cycle. When key on and I have 5v from ground to signal. I then move my meter to duty cycle and there is nothing in center position/ forward or backwards. there are four wires to the roller switch would you know what the fourth wire does? If anything.
The 4th wire on the switch side (not present in the machine harness) is for external calibration but is not used in this application. To prove that the meter you have is reading duty cycle correctly you can try a couple of alternatives:- 1. Connect the black lead of the meter to a good machine frame ground rather than Pin 2 of the 12-pin connector while keeping the red lead on Pin 3 for the thumbwheel signal. 2. Test the output of the joystick position sensors on the RH side, which are known good. They are on the 6-pin connector just under the joystick base. Test the duty cycle of the signals between Pin 3 (X-Axis signal) and Pin 2 (ground), then test between Pin 5 (Y-Axis signal) and Pin 2. BTW you will need the key ON for this test because these sensors are powered by system voltage.
O.K I will check.
O.K. pin 2&3 504% @ center ; 185% push left ; 820% right ; pin2&5 503% @ center ; 192% pull rear ; 809% push forward pin 3 at 12 pin connector to ground : nothing I google AI the switch and Otto Controls came up. I called Otto Controls. they confirmed that they do build the switch for CAT. They said it is proprietary to CAT They will build me the switch if I can give them the wire configuration. Do you know which wire would be to center ; left ; right. If you know this i could get a switch from them.
We've been through this one regarding Otto Controls before. The switch is proprietary to Cat because it is powered by 8v, not the 5v that is usual for all other switches supplied by Otto. I can't believe they are even offering to build a single switch, usually it would be a minimum 1000 or 1000 switches. That's not the way it works. The switch is powered with 8v by Pin 1, the Ground back to the ECM is on Pin 2, and the varying PWM duty cycle signal is on Pin 3. Are you even sure Otto were talking about a switch with a PWM duty cycle output.? Because they also build Hall Effect (magentic) switches for earlier-model Cat skid steers that, although they look similar to yours, operate on an entirely different principle and would not function on your machine.
I will be talking to them tomorrow about the switch. I will verify the switch is PWM duty cycle output.?
Yes. You must confirm that. A Hall-Effect switch will not work in your machine. Also you need to confirm with them that the switch will operate using a nominal input voltage of 8.0v
So in conclusion we are condemning the Joy stick. It that Correct. I am going to send you a picture of the switch
I would say so. The meter you got hold of measures duty cycle of the X and Y-Axis sensors of the joystick just fine so you know it is working. If it measures zero in regard to thumbwheel duty cycle output then that seems pretty conclusive. The only way to get more information is to hook Cat ET up to the machine and check for Active Diagnostic Codes. My money is on 2204-3.
This is my switch. Is it possible the PWM is in the ECM and just using this switch to generate the signal? I appreciate you and all your knowledge. Thank you. I am not a Forum person. You have made this a good experience.
Before getting into your questions above regarding the switch I want to circle back to this point you made early on. Questions:- 1. Was the replacement a genuine OEM part.? 2. Did you buy a complete joystick assembly or just the handle.? 3. Do you have the Part Number.? You may find it on a white plastic tag attached to the wiring between the base and the 6/12-pin connectors. The tag will look something like white electrical tape. 4. Have the AUX Hydraulics ever worked since you installed the replacement joystick 2 years ago.?
I will look for said tag. The hydraulics worked fine for about 1 year. then it started to get glitchy here and there. Because it is not new I dealt with it. About 2 months ago yellow light came on then we had to raise and lower arm rest and reset hydraulics then attachment would work again. We were drilling like 50 holes. Pain in the ass. Last project we went to drill and no go, Had to get a different piece of equipment. I did purchase the joy stick from my local cat dealer so I assumed it was OEM because of the price, And no there is no gold in the joystick. Mostly plastic and they are proud of it.
This is the Tag, Still no gold on that,
That's the tag I was thinking of, but unfortunately in this case it shows the (subcontractor) manufacturer Part Number, not the Cat Part Number. It's a long shot but do you maybe still have the original invoice that you can refer to.? Let me explain a bit regarding this. Your photos from a couple of posts above appears to show a Hall-Effect thumbwheel switch with the typical white, yellow, brown & violet wires. The magnet that varies the output signal is the little circular doodad. Now your machine by Serial Number (and because it is a C-Series machine) calls for a PWM thumbwheel roller sensor (as opposed to switch), not Hall effect. So my questions are related as to how you came to be sold the handle that you installed a couple of years ago, and why it actually worked for a limited period of time after installation. Right now it's making no sense and I am trying to get my head around it. If your RH joystick ihandle s only equipped with a thumbwheel and no buttons then IMO the Part Number of the one in your photos is 215-8307, designed for use in all machines up to the last of the B-Series models. The correct Part Number of a joystick handle equipped with a PWM thumbwheel roller sensor for a C-Series machine such as yours is 273-9103.
Sorry I missed commenting on this. If you got it from a dealer it would be genuine OEM. The only questions now are regarding did you buy just a handle only, and what Part Number you purchased.
So I have installed the wrong Joy stick on my machine. So will this joystick still have the same measurements? This would possible explain why I was having issues right away. When I contacted CAT after I installed the new stick they told me it was probably a different issue, not the joy stick.
Nige, Thank you so much for your technical assistance. It was great help. I had to purchase a new joystick from CAT. I am going to mail the other one in to see if it could get a new thumb wheel installed in it. It seems like a total waste to throw the whole joy stick in the trash because of a little switch. Thanks again
Where are you sending it.?
There are two different designs of thumbwheel roller switch. Although they appear similar from the outside they operate on completely different principles. All machines up to the end of the B-Series used a thumbwheel roller that has a Hall Effect magnetic switch inside it. That design of switch outputs a varying voltage to the ECM depending on the roller position. From the start of the C-Series onwards (C & D-model machines up to the present day) the roller switch has a rotary sensor inside it that outputs a PWM (pulse width modulated) signal to the ECM. This type of signal uses a constant voltage with a varying waveform, quite different to the earlier design. In a word - BS. If a Cat dealer sold you the incorrect joystick handle for your machine Serial Number ( provided that you bought it based on your machine Serial Number ) then they should take it back and reimburse you - IMHO.