Hey everyone! I could really use someone with a lot of 3116 knowledge with this. In a nutshell, last spring, pulling trailer with my manlift and heard a smack, lost power, truck running like a chevy v8 on 5 cylinders. Eased to top of hill, pulled to side of road and shut it off. Got out, opened the hood, oil all over the road, 2 push rods and pieces of cam follower plate laying around. That's what leads to my problem I have now. I did my research and got it running like a sewing machine. I noticed no water visible in the radiator reservoir and decided to top it off. Here's the catch- almost as soon as I pour in coolant I can hear it going into the oil pan? So I decided to drain the radiator to get a idea of where the water level is to get a idea of where it's leaking. Not a drop of water in radiator. Well that explains the extra 3 1/2 gallons of black pudding that was in the oil pan when I first drained it after it dropped the push rods. So, with a empty radiator, I pour in coolant and almost immediately I hear it going in the oil pan. It has to be from water pump or oil cooler right? Anything else that could leak is above this level. I'm reading that bad cooler can only put oil in water not water in oil? Of course in this scenario nothing is pressurized. I have nothing to indicate oil in water. Is there a passage related to water pump that could cause this? I believe this problem contributed to the failure but not completely. This is a Cat Reman engine with only 15,000 miles that never got the top end ran after break in. It had 2500 miles when I bought the truck and not being a Cat guy I had no idea it had to be done. Most of the rockers were REALLY loose. The old man I bought it from had no paperwork on the motor. I went to Cat with the serial # and they showed the engine being remanufactured but no documentation that it ever left the plant so they couldn't do anything for me. I have a mechanical 8.3 Cummins 300 horse in the shop for this truck but I'm still in the parts gathering stage and will be for quite some time. I'm really needing to get this truck back under a trailer. My old F350 thanks you in advance for any relief you can give.
That valve adjustment time and mileage don't sound right to me. JMHO.
I can live with that. But what about the coolant getting in the oil pan?
With what you described above, with oil on the ground and parts laying about. Sounds like a block issue MBG. Without pics of what took place, wellll.
That was due to the cam follower plate cover getting knocked out side of block when it dropped a couple push rods. I’ve got that taken care of. The leaking water is a lot lower on opposite side somewhere down low. Just hoping someone has had same thing and can verify location before I start ripping
Well if it was me, I would be dropping the oil pan and have someone pour water in it and see where it's coming from. That is the sure fire method. Because if it's running out as fast as you put it in your not going to pressurize it anyway.
Dropped pushrods hard pressured the block in that area if hard enough to bust the follower, suspect will find the water jacket crack close to incident point, Block is toast.
And we all know what's on the other side of that camshaft.
I'm not familiar with this engine but cracked block was my first though too.
That would be my immediate thoughts as well but in this case the water level as I begin to pour is well below the camshaft galley area so there’s nothing there to leak. Without removing a bunch of stuff, it appears that the radiator reservoir tube goes down into the water pump which is way down low and relatively even with the oil cooler galley/water jacket and that’s how you fill the system with coolant. I would like to see a exploded view of that area of the block showing the relationship of the water pump/oil cooler water jacket to see if it’s possible for water to enter a ruptured oil cooler and run into oil pan but I haven’t found anything. I’m not even getting a half gallon of water in the bottom of the block when I hear it trickling so it can’t be close to high enough to come through at the camshaft galley. I also cleaned it and inspected it thoroughly before I fixed that issue. I don’t know, this thing is really jacking with me.
Bored block unless ate the head will be a busted block Not gonna find any internal piping to fail, sorry.
Again-drop the pan, you will know for sure and might be able to get some sleep over it.
Sounds like a replacement engine is in order. Been there done that
I’ll do that. I’ll have to clean the chocolate pudding out again anyway. Ugggh it’s so hard to do anything related to the bottom of that truck. Did you see the pic? It’s a really cool old truck but it’s on the dirt. I did that to pull same height goosenecks and camper as my pickups. It takes a lot of jacking and blocking to get it up to a comfortable height. It just doesn’t make any sense. The leaking completely drains the radiator so the leak has to be at or below bottom of radiator. Bottom of radiator is well below cam galley and probably a foot below head. If it was leaking at either, wouldn’t the radiator at least retain water at the same level as the leak? That tells me it’s down low...really low. So there’s no way a ruptured oil cooler could cause this leak? It’s about the lowest thing there is. I believe the dropped push rods were a symptom of this leak not the Leak being a symptom of the dropped push rods. I just didn’t catch it in time and it turned my oil into pudding and quit oiling up high.I almost never got that crap to clear out and get good flow over the rockers and now I’ll have to do it again. I really do appreciate the input from everyone and anyone who specializes in these gutless no power 3116’s feel free to jump in. Thanks
Checking it by dropping the pan you will find it and if it is as you think just the oil cooler you will be a happy fellow, and yes the 3116 is a gutless wonder.
You’re the man! Thanks.
Actually I'm just a number three grease monkey but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
Number Three of One? TEE HEE!!
Uhh, Truck Shop...I think you have to stay at a Holiday Inn Express to qualify...
some people hated the 3208 but the 3116 was way worse. no decent power and a lot harder to work on.
When you drain the rad there will still be water in the block unless you pull the block drain plug behind the cooler under the turbo. This is what the cooler looks like as its removed. I cant see it being able to leak through the cooler and into the oil pan very fast.
Seen a few cam follower failures on 3176s and C13's, a holed block is the usual result. Never seen one on a 3116, but the design is similar.
If it steal runs build some ramps out of 2x6s .
To qualify? To qualify for what a free sh!ty plate of pancakes and sour *** coffee. I still qualify as a number three grease monkey. Besides those places are for people who drag there wardrobe around behind them on wheels, those folks don't carry bags.
we have 4 of those things in the bunch. had one do just about the same thing as described in this thread about 3 yrs ago. push rods out the top water in the oil and crank broken in #2 hole . replaced with a used unit . I had the used eng uprated to 240 hp by cat its still running
Had one at 170 HP in a Cat 950F. Meter stopped turning at 27K hours long before I ever laid eyes on it. Cannot attest as to how many hours were on the engine but it never gave me any issues. It’s like these guys pulling 400 (or more) HP out of a 5.9 Cumapart. It’ll do it but for who knows for how long. Namaste
Ok that makes sense. When draining. I have the issue when filling. I never did drain the radiator, it was empty on its own. Completely empty. I'm assuming from the leak. When I pour in coolant. at resorvoir, I can almost immediately hear water trickling in pan and the level rises on dipstick. My question is: If the leak is up higher at the head or camshaft galley, wouldn't the radiator level come up and stay at the level of the leak instead of leaking completely out below the level of the leak? That's what's throwing me off. A block and a radiator are basically 2 containers linked with a tube at the bottom. Even if you do have to pull a plug to drain the block wouldn't the radiator retain the same level as the block retains? That's what keeps making me thing the leak is below radiator level. The only possible asnwer is if it has to be running for the radiator to fill and thats why no water is going in the radiator? Doesn't seem too likely. Sorry to keep hammering on this but I learn a lot from you guys. Just a note- engine runs like a Singer sewing machine. Hate to just write it off with so few miles.
Most system fill bottom up Thru lower hose and would not empty radiator as much of the cooling system IE water jacket is above the half way point including oil cooler. Not acquainted with orientation of or how internal radiator plumbing on your machine, Some older low cab forwards even the old GMC square cabs radiator bottom(and cross flow)was above highest point of water jacket.
Well it does fill from bottom up and the water pump and oil cooler are pretty much in line with each other at the very bottom edge of the block. The bottom of the radiator is 2-3 inches above them. Seems as if the radiator drains out it would have to be related to their area. Everything else is above the bottom of radiator. When it dropped the 2 push rods and knocked the cam follower cover out, there was oil all over the highway. LOTS of oil. After I got it home and drained the oil [jet black pudding] , i got about 8 gallons out of a 5 gallon capacity pan. I'm sure thats where all my coolant went. Not to mention all that was on the highway.
If the oil cooler leaked that badly, your cooling system would have more oil than the oil pan. you need to pull the pan and see where the coolant is falling from. That's the only way to know for sure.
Agree Oil has more pressure than water so would force feed the other way first Radiator should have been a oily mess had the cooler failed first. Pan needs to come off and validate where is flowing from.
I'll do that. I started on it the other day then it got nasty out and hasn't cleared up yet. I don't really want to bring it in and tie up the space so I'll wait for a break in the weather.
Removed oil pan. Block cracked at camshaft galley. On to the next project installing the 8.3. Gonna start a new thread on that. Thanks for all the input.