After finishing a job I noticed that the bucket had a lot of play in the linkage. I was headed to the shop for a refit anyway so I was not to twisted about it We got it apart. Wow what a disaster. I purchased this machine two years ago and it had a solesbee thumb installed. I think the village idiot did it. First they made the bucket shaft turn with the thumb in the bucket bores with NO bushing's. Well it has trashed the bucket shaft the dog bones the H link bushings and their shafts and the bore on the bottom of the stick. so after some wild turkey and a few hours thinking about it I have come up with a new plan for a fix. All the Cat stock shafts are pinned and are non-rotating. The stock bucket has no bushings and no grease fitting due to a fixed pin design. What I am going to do is bore all the bucket pin bores to accept cat stock bushing and grease seals and to remake and change the clearance adjustment bushing to accept a bushing and seals remake the shaft to be free rotating and end retained. add grease fitting everywhere remake all pivot shafts and connecting links. This trip to the shop was going to be a retrofit of the thumb from a standard hydraulic thumb to a progressive. after finding all of this and getting a good job that the machine needs to be on the first of next month it will be a race just to get it put back together in time. I am going to show what happens when you drink wild turkey and drive a computer designing a new bearing system. that I will use the solid model to design the progressive retrofit at a later date.
A few more pics
bucket reboring Got the bucket machined for the new bushings today. still neeed to do the stick yet but making progress.
A few pictures of the up comming hydro repair.
keeps them pictures coming wolf:thumbsup opcorn
Today we removed the main hydraulic control valve assembly and reinstalled a new one. When I purchased this machine I knew it had a problem when you swing right the stick would move out fast and it had no power on right swing. But owning a CNC machine I did not have any worries. After some inspection we found that the previous owner had let a cylinder end bust off the stick and run crap thru the system and scored a control rod bore or two. Though about honing the control rod bores and making some new control rods but I found a good used main control valve for $3500.00 so here we are. This thing has 55 hoses to remove and reinstall.
Got it removed and reinstalled ready to start reinstalling the 55 lines.
Ah, yes. I have replaced a few main valves in 312c/315c. When they first came out there was a problem with the stick and or bucket piston nut being torqued incorrectly and it hammering until it trashed the system. when we did them, under warranty we did a complete system clean out and a brand new valve. I think the valves were $25K so you got a great deal on yours. Did you disassemble the slow return check while you had it off. They catch debris and they can fall apart. If you run into any problems or need any info, schematic etc let me know.
Where would the slow return check be located ???
Here, circled in red. there is a cooler bypass and slow return check in the manifold.
bucket bushing I have added grease fitting for the new bushing and the bucket is ready for bushing Made press bushing to install the bushing
installing the bushing With the new press bushing insert I have installed wear bushing in CAT bucket like it should have been in the first DAMN place. The insert press tool worked like a champ. Miked the bushing after install so I can turn the shafts. I am going to set the clearence at .006 rather than the CAT .010 so far please a punch with the refit.
hydraulic help If you run into any problems or need any info, schematic etc let me know.[/QUOTE] Lee I need the hydraulic schematics if you have them. The serial # is CBA00073 There must be a misconnected line somewhere. No matter what we do the stick still moves out when you swing right. The same condition that existed before the valve swap. my email is [email protected] Thanks for any help.:Banghead
email sent. Did any of the suggestions i made make a difference? I need to ponder this. This is a good one.
Looking at the schematic and bearing in mind the valve was replaced and it is unlikely it has the same problem. You also stated the pilot joy stick was replaced so i assume it is ok. I think it could very well be the lines on the swing priory and stick regeneration valves are swapped. #13 and 14 in your pic. Pilot oil moves the swing spool and the same oil shifts the swing priority but if swapped it would move the stick regen valve opening the rod end and causing it to drift out. The only thing that doesn't make sense is it only does it swinging right. I am just kinda thinking out loud. I looked at the history of this machine and saw it did have some work on the valve so it is possible they were swapped.
Bucket Adjuster Bushing Machining This blank started life at 40lbs and finished at 10.5 lbs
A Few More One more finished part
Line Boring Thumb When I finished the new main bucket shaft and tried to slide it thur the thumb no joy the bosses were 3/16" out of alignment. So off to the Cat store for more bushing and seals so I could line bore and machine the thumb to acceopt standard CAT bushing and seals. Let me add my general displeasure with solesbee thumbs. What a HACK JOB. they bored the thumb to use custom size bushing not cat standard and then installed them up against a shoulder to make it impossible to remove" almost" And when you go back and see that all this work has been caused by the installation of their CRAP design Thumb Do not buy their product if you dont want to trash your machine.
OK, Hose #12 and the top hose on #10 are swapped. Here is why.... #11 is the stick 1 spool, #10 is the swing spool. #16 (behind #6) is the stick 2 spool. So now when you swing right pilot oil move the swing spool but instead of moving the swing priority spool (#13) It is shifting the stick2 spool and this is the unwanted movement. Now when you stick out you move the stick1 spool but instead of moving the stick 2 spool as well to get 2 pump flow, it is moving the swing priority spool and not really doing anything. Swapping the lines will correct it giving you 2 pump on stick in and out and the unwanted drift will go and now you also have swing priority. This will feel like a new machine. Good job. BTW, the machining on the bucket rocks.
More Machining Doing some final measurements so I can finish the bucket shafts and get them to heat treat in the morning.
Installing Bushing I love a little over kill on the press for the bushing's
Ready For Heat Treat I am ready to get this beast back together and diggin dirt.
Thanks lee-online Lee I owe you a bottle of what ever you drink. You put us on the mark and we would still be lost in the woods without your help. Just send me a email what you want and where to send it too. If you are ever in Alpharetta GA. Dinner and drinks of your choice is on me. I say again THANKS A LOT!!!!!! :drinkup:usa
The Assembly After getting the shafts back from heat treat on Saturday I had to remachine the entire lot as all the shafts grew about .003 in dia and the bushings ID shrank about .003 What a pain. I had forgotten that I had increased the dia. of the side clearence adjust bushing .300 larger in dia and the stock CAT shims would not fit so I had to remachine the inside Dia. and cut them in half so I could install and remove them as needed.
Mock Up Assembly Here are some pictures as I start trying to put this beast back together.
Final Assembly Well here it is a fully bushed CAT bucket with fully rotating pins and grease fitting everwhere. Hand made 4150 thur heat treated to 55 RC. Lets see how this holds up.
That was alot of work you put into it. Good job. Now lets just hope the operator greases it.
They will grease or become compost.
Very professional looking work. Very nice indeed!
Great looking job, what an improvement. Thanks for sharing, very impressive, work.
Hey Wolf44! This is ur biggest fan!!!! Looking over the work u did on this equipment makes me very proud. Not just of you and what ur capable of, but the fact that ur my friend and i know u... Hey Anna!!! It's Jeremy!! Yea I see how ur problems seem inconceivable... Makes the Honda look like peanuts!! Love the animation on the head hitting the wall I didn't get a chance to help u this time around, but lord willing i will be there on the next one. Keep making us proud!!! JG
Great Job Wolf!!! Thanks for sharing. Ya sure gave me things to think about as I work on my equ. And good ideas on how to look ahead and fix things so they hlod up better and longer. And big Thumps Up to Lee Online! Billy
Oil Pressure Gauge Never did like that I did not know what the oil pressure was in this machine so I added a manual old school gauge to give me the warm and fuzzy. all I have to do left is do some repainting friday and he will be ready for combat.
My compliments on your work - fantastic. I just received a new Bodine bucket and thumb for my Kobelco SK130. To Bodines credit they are both built like an Abrams tank. However I was disappointed they did not harden the pins shipped with the assembly. It cost another $300 to have the 4140 pins hardened. The 4140 bushings in the thumb are not bushed I don;t care about that cuz the pin is locked to the thumb but the bushings in the bucket flanges should be bushed . I guess I`ll have to do as you did and put hardened bushings in, Sheesh! Great job!
Wow, never seen any work done like this (clean and professional) ... thank you for sharing this. Great work
Thanks for sharing wolf!
Hi Wolf, What you been up to lately, any new projects or pictures?
Where were you three years ago? Excellent post and photos!
my work has 312 that broke the same pin today. this thread is great, i was wondering if i could ask you a question on hydrulics on cats. i have a 304 cat mini ex and i need to do some hydraulic work on it. im wondering how to relieve the hydraulics on the machine so i can remove lines any help will be great thanks
Thumb Configuration In reading this post I do see and agree that the original thumb was installed or designed incorrectly. The Thumb main pivot pin should be secured to the bucket not to the thumb which is a very common mistake. Securing the Main pin to the bucket allows the thumb to turn on the main pin and the main pin turn inside the stick. The Main pin then is stationary in the bucket bosses. Installing incorrectly leads to rapid wear and expensive repairs. It appears as well the Thumb Ears or Bridles as they are called seem too wide for the outside of the bucket ears. The closer the thumb Bridle width to the bucket ear width eliminating as many shims as possible means less bending moment on the pin. You want to avoid as much bending and flexing of the main pin as possible. Thumb main pins are typically 4140 steel heat treated to about 1/8 to 1/4" deep and softer in the middle. This provides wear resistance on the outside and the soft core allows some bending without being brittle and breaking. Also thumb installations should include setting the thumb system pressure to a lower PSI than your bucket system pressure, usually 2,500PSI works. This means the bucket can always push against your thumb and over ride it moving it backwards when pressure exceeds 2,500PSI. If the bucket and thumb meet and one does not give things break and you make us thumb manufacturers happy when you buy the parts you need to repair. Of course some people have a fully equipped machine shop and the talents to repair and improve their equipment as required. Thanks for posting and keep up the good work. Mr.Mel
Bodine Stump Splitter . Regarding Bodine equipment - I just purchased a Bodine Stump Splitter and have no paperwork at all with it. In looking at it, I am a bit confused as to exactly how it connects to my Cat 312B Excavator. Does anyone know where I could find some installation instructions - or pictures of one that is installed? (I know this question makes me sound like a real newbie to equipment, but it appears that it connects opposite to what I thought. Ie, the "Knife" seems to work from the curl cylinder. I have seen videos where the 'knife' served as the Thumb. Thanks for any help from any of you