I was running the 973 building a lake when it started missing and had real low power. Took my ear muffs off and it has a real hard rattle in the top end. Slowly backed it out of the cut to get it out of the way and by the time I shut it off it was really banging and starting to blow out the dip stick. I'm guessing a piston came apart, it has no water in the oil so it's contained. It started a weird vibration several weeks ago and we thought the harmonic balancer had slipped. I'm guessing that isn't the problem. We haven't loaded it up yet, is there a bypass valve to free wheel this machine or do you have to pull the axles to move it. It is a 86g serial number machine. I'm hoping to do a inframe overhaul if the crank looks good or replace if crank is hurt.
Look very close at the rod journal of the one that failed should a piston have popped. Many times damage will appear slight but could be pretty severe over time.
Well I guess there is no harm in starting out in the direction of an in-frame overhaul. But if something like a piston did break-up first thing I'd want to check is the oil filter. Remove and cut it open and inspect. If there are any signs of metal parts in there I would strongly suggest removing and a complete disassembly of the engine. This would include replacing the engine oil cooler core with either a new one or a reman unit. Then I would strip block to the bare casting including removing all plugs that are related to the oil system and using a gun cleaning brush to scrub them clean. Don't for get the dowel at the rear of the block the oil for rocker arms has to go through. Next if crank is checked and found to be usable there are plugs in oil passages in it that should also be removed and cleaned out. Basically anything that has oil going through it needs to be completely disassembled and cleaned 100%. This is by no means a full list of things that need cleaning but should give you an idea of what I personally feel needs to be done to prevent a second major failure in the near future.
I just had to tow my 943 and opted to remove the axles. I think there is a way to charge the brake system but its about as easy to pull the axle. The only 3306 I was around that had a noise like that , the wrist pin bushing went on a cylinder. The weird thing about that was that morning no noise at all , 6 hours later sounded like a hammer floating around and kept getting louder. The owner shut it off before it let loose. Come to find out the previous dealer had remaned the engine but didn't fit new pin bushings. Hopefully you won't find much out of line. 3306 is a fantastic power plant , how many hours?
Engine looks like it's been rebuilt, really clean for the age of the machine that was one reason I bought it. Machine has around 11,000 hours on it. It's pretty tight for it's age. I'm hoping for an inframe but won't chance it if things look to bad when we get the head off of it. It's going to be awhile, I'm swamped with work and really don't need it till this fall for more lake work so it may set till wet weather will let me move it. We will probably pull the axles, they aren't that bad to get out. I hadn't thought of a wrist pin, when it started missing I'm guessing it hit the injector and shut that hole down. It also didn't start blowing out of the dipstick till the very last few feet. I'm hoping for the best but we all know how that goes. Are used 3306's hard to come by?
Hope I did not sound too negative but just trying to point out potential problems. If as in Dickjr.'s case it turns out to be a bad wrist pin bushing and no noticeable amount of metal in oil filter you may get lucky with an in chassis repair. Good luck and be sure to post updates as you find what the problem turns out to be and if you need any detailed information a full serial number on that 86G and the motor itself if it does have a separate serial number will help whoever is going to answer your question. Also a little info on the use you are looking to get out of it would be nice. What one might suggest for a machine running 2,000+ hours a year might be way different if you are only going to be running it 200 hours a year or even sell it when project now in the works is done.
I do alot of brush removal and build a few lakes and ponds a year. I'm going to say maybe 2 to maybe 350 hours a year. May not have it looked at for a couple months, working out of town when this job is done. Hoping for the best, it's been a long month, excavator burnt, dump truck rear end went out and now this. That's a lot for a one man operation!
gwhammy , I feel your pain. If your read some of my posts from last year, it was rough. Maybe your 73 repair won't be to hard on the pocket.
Send me a PM where you are at gwh, I too am in MO and have such gracious results while trying to earn a little extra cash!! Sorry to hear the other miseries, I am awaiting my own physical repairs to seal up/heal over so I can return to some level of function. Docs PA stated may be up from 6-8 weeks dependent on my internal processes where I can lift more than 10 lbs. or turn my head up to look above my head! Then and ONLY then I can start 'easing' back into any sort of working.
Since we're guessing here, I'm going to vote for a dropped/broken valve. When you get everything apart, make sure you inspect the turbine on the turbo very closely. If things were coming apart in a cylinder, some shrapnel may have made it's way out the exhaust.
Pulled the axles today before it started raining to get it out of the field. Real easy, six bolts a side and a ratchet strap hooked to the bolt put in the center they came right out. Going to get it on a trailer this weekend between rains and find out whats wrong. Talked to my mechanic and he said he had seen seats come out and cause havoc on the 3406. I'm north of you DMiller about 80 miles. Paris, at the west end of Mark Twain Lake. I know a couple people from your area, Merlin that runs a body shop and a guy we called Chunky, who was a laborer and then worked at the nuclear plant till he retired.
Been to Paris a few times, had friends that loved the lake. I may have known chunky, I still(somewhat) work at the nuke in Operations. Being down with the back and neck has taken some wind out of that sail. Been there since 96.
wish I lived over your way.. heal quickly, DMiller!
Got the head off, needs a total rebuild. The guy I got it from didn't run it maybe a couple days a year. It had gotten condensation in all cylinders and had rust in all. Couple of pistons tore up and I'm guessing took rod bearings out causing piston to hit head. I'm sure crank will need turned so out it will come. I'm going to pick up a running motor this weekend as it will be more cost effective and faster. It's intercooled just hoping the intercooler on top of the intake will clear the cab.
Sorry to hear but at least you stopped before destroyed the entire engine. Keep us informed on progress.
Got home with the new to me motor. Guy had it rigged up with a radiator and it was on a skid from the rock drill he got it out of. Fired right up and ran great. Picked this up for less than a rebuild kit. We are going to pull the pan and check a couple bearings while it's easy to do. May have to swap injection pumps as this one has solenoid on and off and the loaders use the throttle. That should put it back to stock horsepower also. One question, this is a deck plate motor and mine wasn't. Will that make a difference?
Any idea what hp the transplant is? I'm thinking somebody is going to throw a fit over the fact it might have different pistons than your engine.
One quick question are they the same style pump, other than the solenoid? While I'm asking, are they both the same type of injectors, Pre-chamber direct injection? Okay, one more. What about flywheel housing? Wet/dry, pump mount/drive. Cat is not as bad as Detroits but there can be many variations for some of the more common engines like the 3306. They have been used in everything from gensets to loaders and dozers. Each one may have variations that would not work well in another application. Just because it is Yellow and has the same model designation does not guarantee it will work!
Looks to be the same style pump. The loader motor and this motor are both dry flywheel. I'm thinking adapters and flywheels will have to be changed. I did notice this one has a different arrangement on pulley and harmonic balancer. Loader has the pulleys first then the harmonic balancer new motor opposite but just guessing they will interchange. Replacement motor has the turbo near the rear of the motor and loader has it centered. Both are direct injected I believe, replacement is like a 93 or newer as the guy that had it said the cat name on the valve cover was 93 or later. As long as new motor is same hp or more I wouldn't think pistons would make any difference. I wouldn't be against wiring up the shut off solenoid to a switch instead of killing it with the throttle.
One caution stationary to machine engines, the stationary may not have the appropriate multi-pickup oil pump suction system and not ready for use in a mobility machine. Check with the parts guys as to major differences you may have to change; IE Oil pump and pickup, if the vib, dampers will interchange, if the cranks are the same, etc.
This motor was in a big rock drill which wouldn't make it a equipment type motor. We have them close together now, looks like the pumps will need to be changed and the intercooler done away with. The air filter bracket bolts to the top of the intake where the intercooler is. Oil pan appears to be identical, harmonic balancer and pulleys are opposite. I'm thinking we will strip any of the externals off and change if they are different. Going to pull the pan and check bearings while it is out in the open. If they show any wear the bearing are getting changed. Should be able to look at the cam and bottom of the sleeves to look for any problems. How does this motor time? That is the one thing we don't know yet. I have a lot of confidence in the mechanic buddy working on it. I've seen him work on everything from lawnmowers to building four charger alcohol pulling tractors.
Well to be safe before I try to comment on the timing, assume you are asking about fuel injection pump, I would need to know a S/N. Seams there are at least 10 different 973 prefixes and who know how many variations in each.
Yes injection pump timing. I've worked on cummins motors and they have timing pins to lock the cam and pump. serial number of the machine or both of the motors? I've looked all over the one I just bought and don't see any id plates on it like on a cummins. Not real familiar with cat motors. I can get the one off the loader when I'm back around it this week and the other motor if you can tell me where to look. I'm sure if I can come up with the info the guy working on them can do it.
As for S/N see picture below. The red circle is where most of the tags are on the 3300 series Cats I have worked on. This would be looking at the left side of the block with flywheel end to the right in the picture. If you look close at the picture you can see the two rivets that would have held the tag on this block. If the tag is missing try cleaning off the area as Cat usually stamped the numbers in there. Only problem might be if this block is not the original one for the application then all bets are off. But with the number we might be able to know what it was originaly used in to help some.
Thanks, I'll get them tomorrow if work allows.
Maybe also some pictures of the original engine and the replacement engine would help.
Replacement engine didn't have a tag or stamping on the boss. You could tell where a tag had been riveted on. The numbers and letters from top to bottom on the loader motor are 13213524 5c9442 ot4497 voo I can get pictures tomorrow of both motors.
That is actually 13Z13524.
Probably right I tend to scribble so bad I can't read some of the things I write.
Not positive but the replacement motor may have a shorter crank snout than the loader motor. That would be a problem. Put a big puller on one of the harmonic balancers and it didn't budge. Is there a secret or just a bigger puller? Pulled the pan and the bearings look real good as does the bottom of the bore in the sleeves that we can see. Worst scenario is I have to fix my crank if it has problems or buy a crank kit. At least this is what I'm hoping.
The front pulley has 4 threaded bolt holes in it , these are used to pull it off with a hydraulic cylinder and a hard bar bolted using all 4 of the holes, if you have put any strain against the Dampener it is possibly now just scrap? the flywheel and crank are marked with a chisel cut for correct indexing, it might be possible to pull the front pulley without the correct tooling using a hard bar 4 bolts and a spacer off the part undone front crank bolt, tighten it all up and give it a whack? tctractors
We used a plate of 3/4" steel with a 1" fine thread nut welded to it over a drilled hole on all the tapered crank engines I have worked on. Get the pusher bolt wrench tight against the OE crank end bolt and rap on it with a 6-10 hammer. Have to disrupt the taper interference fit. The plate had alternate holes drilled for the old AC, Cummins, Cat and Detroit engines.
That's what a couple cat mechanics have told me also on the plate. This one is on the back burner as long as my 963 is running. My mechanic and I are real busy with dry weather.
Some of these pulley's can be on very tight, I do have the correct tooling and often find 25 -30 ton force is needed to blow them free. lets hope you have good luck tctractors
I recall having to replace the front seal on a 980B loader in frame. What I remember doing was to find a disc of steel plate and drill holes to match up with the puller holes in the hub or pulley. I believe what I did was to thread the center bolt in so the head was a bit above that of the hub and then using 4 bolts of the right length install the new plate and tighten each bolt a little at a time till it popped free. Hardened washers under the head of the four bolts with some anti-seeze would help reduce torque needed. Just be sure to not get any on the tapers when reinstalling, tapers should be clean and dry when assembled.
Actually come loose easier that way than a hydraulic puller, or at least seems so. Have to remove less stuff!
Main thing is to use a heavy enough steel plate and not use too long of bolts so they don't bottom out. And a little lube also helps. Just looked up the recommended load on a 1/2 inch forged lifting eye to get an idea of the pulling power one could get. Chart says using a 5 to 1 safety factor a 1/2 eye is good for 2,200 pounds. So if push came to shove and you needed to go to the limit with four bolts you should be able to get a little over 20 tons before anything broke and if using grade 8 bolts probably a bit more.
I have tackled the front pulley removal task on CAT engines at least 50 possibly 100's of times over the last 46 years (allow a min of 4 times a year? it's near 200) the small pulling threads in the pulley are not the place to put the screw load into, these bolts need to be in and level set with any screw effort only going against the loose crank nose bolt with the thick washer still towards the crank, this will save things flying about, it's common to find these small pulling threads stripped and very common on D342's and 353's.
Both out side by side, basically the same long block. Old motor gaulded a piston and started taking the wrist pin bushing out. Crank looks great, could have done an inframe on this motor. Glad we pulled it, a bolt behind the idler gear that drives the hydraulic pump had backed out and was rubbing hard on the back of the gear. This would have caused a bad problem down the road.