Last winter i did a major rebuild on a 3412electronic engine that was burnt, cought fire while running and burnt until injusted turbos. Then set for a year. So you can imagine the condition it was when i got it from my customer! i went thru every inch of this engine from crank to major block repairs and extensive head work. Complete major rebuild, replaced anything out of spec. Now all that was left to do was the electronics, which were all burnt beyond recognition . I am old school and only did the mechanical part. It was up to my customer and Cat to do the electronics. I only did some installing of the parts i was given by my customer ( from cat) that Cat had prescribed. I have no electronic experience or knowledge so this part was left up to my customer to get done. Now nearly a year later my customer has not been able to get the engine to run. Cat techs have tried to throw me under the bus but i feel secure my work was not the issue. I feel it is a electronic problem, either the reman brain, or their remaned injectors, is the problem. ANY INPUT FROM PEOPLE WITH SIMILAR EXPERIENCE??? Thanks
I wouldn't think it would be too hard to tell or check if there was an issue with the work you did.
There is lots of experience here regarding 3400 HEUI engines. Unfortunately it appears as though, because you only did the mechanical part of the rebuild, there is a perfect opportunity for a "he said, she said" situation regarding why this engine won't start. Also because (I assume) you do not have access ET diagnostics I don't see any way you can get into the electronics yourself to troubleshoot it. Can you start with a few basics such as engine Serial Number. Then give Part Numbers for anything you have but especially the injectors and the ECM. Also the ECM software Part Number if you can get hold of it. Did you use all OEM Cat internal engine parts for the rebuild.? When they try to start the engine does it smoke out of the chimney at all.? If it does not has anyone tried giving it just a little whiff of ether to see what happens.? Have you actually been present when a Cat tech was there attempting to start the engine.?
Thanks Nig, the original injectors were 1984752, the ones Cat provided were1747526.i put those in. Now Cat says those are wrong so Cat put in 10r1266. i am 400 miles from the engine so i have not been present when the Cat tech was there. i will try to get the s/n from cust. The engine is from a Peterson 620 horizontal grinder.
When you contact your customer please ask him to speak to his Cat Service Dept and ask them for a copy of the "Product Status Report" (PSR) that the techs who attended his engine should have downloaded from the engine ECM before they ever started trying to diagnose the non-start issue. The PSR is an Adobe pdf file that will contain the engine Serial Number and a lot of other interesting stuff besides such as engine settings. It saves asking multiple questions. I'm guessing the engine S/N will be BDT-something, but 4CR or BFT are also possibilities. If you don't want to uplload it here then send it to me on a private message using the conversation facility. What I can see straight off the bat is related to injector Part Numbers. The 1984752 that came out of the engine are what is known as "Non-Prime" type injectors. The 1747526 that were supplied to you by Cat are what is known as "Prime" type injectors. The two types of injectors require difeerent Part Numbers of software and different electronic "parameter adjustments" within the engine ECM. That's the customer's Cat dealer, right.? If so they are correct because 10R1266 is the correct Reman Part Number for a 1984752 "Prime" type injector which is what you pulled out. What about the internal engine parts you used in the rebuild.? Were they all OEM Cat and do you have Part Numbers.? We may have to circle back on that side later.
Cust says serial number is BDT01180
As I suspected, a BDT engine. They were a very common installation in that type of machine. I'm sorry but you're going to have to call the customer again and ask them to get in contact with the Cat dealer for a copy of the PSR. Getting hold of that is key. In fact there should be at least TWO copies of it, "before service work" and "after service work". It's standard practice so that the customer can see what they did, what parameters were changed, etc, etc.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isnt there a high pressure pump in the ECM that shoots the injectors?
It is fantastic people like Nige are on this forum. In this instance the Cat dealer needs to be able to answer some very pertinent questions instead of just blaming it on the (mechanical end) engine builder.
No. The high pressure pump is a hydraulic pump mounted in the V of the engine that supplies engine oil at somewhere around 3000psi (the exact pressure is determined by the ECM) to the "common hydraulic rail" inside the cylinder heads. What is inside the ECM is a set of driver circuits that generate somewhere around 120v IIRC that "fires" the solenoid on each fuel inector on command from the ECM. When a solenoid activates that allows the high pressure oil to depress the plunger in the injector. In turn that spits fuel into the cylinder and makes black smoke come out of the chimley.
Another thought. When you overhauled the engine you did fit a new or Reman HEUI pump, right.? That's the one shown in the attachment, mounted in the centre of the engine at the front end.
everything on top of the engine was burnt completely. Cat supplied all wireing , ECM, high pressure pump in the v, and injectors. now the tech is telling cust not enough oil pressure to shoot injectors. i don’t see that any of this is my fault
That was my first suspicion, but I was hesitant to mention it. What happens is that on cranking the ECM decides (by a calculation) what hydraulic pressure is needed to fire the injectors. This is known as Desired Injection Actuation Pressure or IAP. The ECM monitors a pressure sensor in the cylinder head which measures Actual IAP. Until Actual IAP equals or exceeds Desired IAP the ECM will not command the injectors to fire. There are a lot of high pressure hydraulic connections, with very specific Part Numbers of seals in them, inside the cylinder heads, which I assume you installed if you installed the heads and the injectors. They are well-known for leaking.
@Oldcatguy - Check your messages.
You say Cat put in the 10r1266 injectors so they would be responsible for all the oil pressure jumper tubes and connections inside under the valve covers. The only other place it could lose pressure is at an internal pump issue. You would see an external leak if the tubes from pump to head were leaking. Do you have engine oil pressure up to the heui pump?
The OP is 400 miles away from the engine according to him and has not been present when the customer’s local Cat dealer were working on it.
And that’s why they pay him the big bucks
Sorry,not sure what happened there? That was supposed to be a reply to Welder Dave. Eitherway,I agree.People like Nige are invaluable