To day when I started my tractor it acted like it wasn't hitting on all the cylinders and when you left off the starter it would die. So I used the starter like a poney motor and after a minuite it hit up and ran fine all day. I got a mechanic coming to tune the rack and put new injectors in it, is there more I should be looking at ?
Check the fuel supply, filters ,pump. loose fittings, sounds like she is not getting fuel right off.
Could also have a fowled back flow valve at primary filter inlet.
I put my ready heater on her this morning and it started ok. That back flow valve you spoke of , I looked on the spin on filter and where the line coming from the tank hooks on, it is 3.8 inch fitting and it looks like a small pressure valve but it is part of the housing and it is sealed is there a small screen behind where the hose slips on ? On the canister filter it dosen't look like any type of valve bank just in and out ports.
Yep, that's the backflow valve. Most have a hinged flapper in it that prevents fuel from flowing back to the fuel tank. The have to be installed properly or the flapper won't work proper. Not saying that's causing your problem though. The Detroit engine uses a gear type fuel lift pump. When the engine is not running, a gear pump can not stop fuel from leaking back to the fuel tank, which will empty fuel rail feeding injectors, causing starting problems until the pump re-fills fuel rail. The back flow valve is installed to prevent this. It's just another thing to check in diagnosing your problem.
I have some clear tubing and may try puting it at the filter to see if I have any air bubbles passing though or if it bleeds off after sitting over night.
After a month or so wait, the mechanic put the new injectors ,set the rack ,ect. It seems to start fine but today was a warm day [ 54 degrees ] He put a screw driver down into the [ What I would call the rocker arm and two cylinders cut back but the back two it didn't change much. He said that the back two was a little weak on compession and asked me what type of oil I was using. I told him 15/40 Shell Rotilla he told me to run 30 weight only and said that plus a warm motor may help on the back cylinders. Any other opinions ?
As I recall Detroits were supposed to use no less than 40 weight oil. It's been a long time though so my memory could be failing.
High Autorcar. Research done by Detroit Diesel has found the preferred oil is SAE 40, unless your in extreme cold climates, then use SAE 30. And, you must choose an oil that has 1.0 % sulfated ash or less, less preferred, anything above 1.0 % is unacceptable oil. Chevron Delo meets the Detroit Specs the best, Texaco Ursa will work as well. Rotella SAE 40 is borderline on sulfated ash. Do not use multigrade oil. Those engines don't like it. Here's a link for you to check out. http://www.trucksaleguide.com/detroit-diesel-oil.htm
I was always told that you should only run GMs on a mono grade oil not a multi grade oil.
The backflow or check valve is a must,Have seen guys spend a lotta time trying to get the older cranes started and all they ever needed was that valve Getting the Old guys perspective on this,Two stroke Detroits at work were 40 wt summer and 30 winter.I really believe it was 30 wt in the winter just to get them started.
Ok thanks for the feed back,I will get the right oil into it then see where I go from here.
detroits I really dont think, changing the oil will help you. I always run 30w winter, 40w summer, in the 53 & 71 Detroits If the oil was the issue why didnt it miss on all the cylinders? just a question Im wondering if you have a cracked head, making both cylinders weak, just another question? They are bad for heads cracking, if they run hot at all. It probably smokes when you first start it and gets better as it warms up. I would get the mechanic to pull the head and check it out. That is, if you cant put up with the issues at hand. He could pull the inspection plates and check the rings, to see if they are broke or stuck Does the water temp run hotter than normal? if so signs of cracked head, or head gasket issues These are tough engines and they run forever, even if they are worn out. They seem to like a shot of starting fluid when its cold and have alot of wear on them. Good Luck
Willis it has never over heated or even ran hot sence I have owned it. But your right about smoke when you first start up but only when you press the peddle down to start pulling. I may have another lead on a 4/53 thats ran a sawmill for years,if I can pick it up I may try to rebuild it then switch engines. Right now thats just a thought maybe thats more then I can figure out. The fellow that did the work for me had wrenches and different tools that I never saw before. But he told me it is real pricey to do major work on them.
detroit It does take special tools to set the injectors As for costly, it isnt any more costly, than most engines. Might be cheaper than some. (Cat) Can you get to the top and bottom, if you needed to do a inframe? You can do a inframe on these engines in about 14-16hrs. Thats not removing any covers/cowlings/etc If you knew what size piston/linners you have and you had a rebuilt head , I have seen it done in one day, but this is in the perfect world and having the piston and linners loaded and ready to install. You probrably can do a inframe rebuild, cheaper and quicker than you can change engines (if you can do a inframe) and what do you know about the used engine you where looking at? Things about Detroit, more so 71 series, is that you have lots of configrations RH/LH starter on different sides, accessories on different sides. You have to be careful buying replacement engines like this, you might end up with something that wont work in your machine. Good Luck
60 degrees the other day and I had to us starter fluid to get it to run. After it started it was running on two cylinders only, then ten, fifteen seconds later one more fired then another ten seconds later the fourth one fired. It is worse now then before, could it be a exhaust valve or rings your opinion please. Not sure what direction to go after the transmission problem now engine problem but as we all know these machines are beat and abused to death. So I figure it is better to keep what I got then buy another with someone elses problems. :beatsme
Sounds like it is loosing prime in the fuel system. You might check the check valve or install an inline one at the tank. When you get the engine to run, do a fuel pressure test and a return flow test to check for a healthy gear(fuel) pump. Hopefully your mech did a valve adjustment while he was under the cover. Tight exhaust valves can cause week cylinders but not your starting issue. I converted all my 4-53's from S pistons to N pistons, this helped a lot in extreme cold weather starting. You might also check to see if the proper injectors were installed. N injectors don't burn well in engines with S pistons. Good luck!
4-53 I agree, sounds like its loosing prime. I always installed a check valve on the fuel filter, it prevents the fuel from going back in the tank. These are simple items to install and it doesnt cost that much. Sorry I dont remember the part number. but Im sure if you call a Detroit dealer he will have one in stock. Let us know what injectors you have, it should be on your bill from the mechanic. There was also a special fitting that was used in the fuel return (I think) that was a orifice fitting that helped with fuel back pressure. This was a 71 thing, but Im sure it was a 53 series also. I ran across a manual for this engine, if you want it, PM me about it. I will also give you a mechanics phone number, that only works on older detroits
I put a inline check valve in my fuel line right next to the fuel filter and it didn't make any difference. Now it seems to have a new problem I turn it over and get a little smoke I give it a shot of starting fluid and hit the starter. It is like you threw a smoke bomb you can't see the end of the hood or out the side doors it is like a white out. Maybe it will try to hit up but will take more starting fluid to get it to go. To me it is like a distributor on a gas engine and you have it turned just enough that it won't run. I talked to the fellow that Willis told me about [ Great guy with tons of knowledge ] and he said that maybe the two weak cylinders would work with the old ejectors but by putting in the new ones dropped the cylinder pressure enough that it won't fire. But also said that the rack may be out of time just enough that it won't start. Maybe this isn;t the correct word but [ To much retarded ? ] I will tear it down again , and get the compression checked on the back two cylinders. Is there any way that I can tell which cylinder is smoking besides taking the exhaust manafold off ? As much smoke it is hard for me not to think that all four cylinders arn't smoking. They put in N65 injectors if that tells you anything. They did have the mechanic check them before they ordered them. Also just wanted to thank everyone and there two cents worth if nothing else it gives me somthing to think about when I can't sleep
Are you saying it won't start/run at all now? Did it do this suddenly? You might want to take the intake housing off where it connects to the blower housing and make sure your blower is turning. If it's not turning, it won't hit a lick.
Yes it will run and run fine, but all the stuff I talked about in the previous post takes place first. After it warms up it will start fine and run fine. I was sitting in my rocker a while ago and got to wondering if I would take one of those battery boosters and put it on the battery and give it a quicker spin if the faster friction would make it start easier.
Hard to say for sure what your problem is. I think one thing I would do is a compression test of each cylinder. That info would be very useful on this one. You may just have very low compression causing your problem.
manual for 4-53 Hi I am in the middle of putting back together a T3300 Hy-hoe, excavator, with a 4-53 engine in it. It would be a great help if I could some how get a copy of that manual. If its to much trouble don't worry about it, but would be great to have. Thanks Pete
I would bet ATCO's false teeth that the rack is still out of adjustment, I had a 2/53 that had excessive white smoke on start up, ran fine after being warm. After readjustment of the rack, the ol detroit ran like atco's dog...bah ha ha!
autocar , you havn`t said how much work or hrs this thing has done or what work it does I`m betting that it`s done heaps and the engine is on the way out . Straight 40 oil is what 2 stroke GM`s like ,( as other have said ) depending on temps , lower the temp, lower the oil number In oz , i run 40 and 50 in the extreme summer heat putting new injectors in a sad GM will make them white smoke more because they atomise the fuel better but not fire because of low compression untill they warm up I`m thinking it`s got nothing to do with fuel running back because it runs and starts strong after initial fire up in the morning once you start using starter fluid on a GM they seem to get addicted to it and like a snort every time in the cold mornings I`ve found there is three stages of ether depending on how sick the GM is , stage one - use the normal yellow can of starting fluid (10/15 %) , stage two - use case/international starting fluid (50 % ) , stage three - use john deere starting fluid which has 80 % ether in it but be carefull If you want to get it to spin good, quick and fast and it`s a 24 volt system , put a 12 volt starter in with a 24 volt solanoid , that will get them spinning and the starter will last
Well, ya old buzzard, can't be the rack out of adjustment then...cuz I ain't got no false teeth, still got my choppers. :tong
I put a electric fuel pump on it the other day and it has been starting better then it did but still alot of black smoke when you give it acceration. For now I am going to keep logging. When it stops I will pull her back onto my equipment trailer and drag her home and decide what to do with her. 62 years old and the only thing I know how to do is work but still I can't justified getting to crazy on another machine for what they get for them.
Black smoke when accelerating is good. That means it is burning the fuel. Rebuilding those detroits is real easy and cheap. You would be suprised how much more power you would get out if it. Just do an inframe rebuild, drop the belly pans, take off oil pan , and head, push out liners with the pistons, push new ones back in.
I think the old girl is worn badly. That multi-vis oil didn't help any for sure. I suspect the valves are bad as well as the seats. You might notice a lot of oil and fumes coming out the block oil drain. (on side of block about where the liners seat) You may also have a couple of scored or badly worn liners. New injectors won't help. It's probably too late to adjust the valves. By the way, that drain back valve can also get a speck of dirt in it and cause fuel drain back. These old Detroit's will run until there isn't any compression in the cylinders, IF you can get them started. and keep the oil on the inside. Good Luck!
Dello 100 30wt or 40wt , dello 400 passes the rings causes more smoke and drains from the air box, will also slober out of the stack if it idles or has low load for long periods.
Black smoke could be a plugged air filter or other obstruction or the blower is worn.
Had a 3/53 pushing a six inch pump that would loose power, smoke and eventually die. Would blubber, miss, come back to life, smoke like crazy, clear up and then run OK for awhile. Tried filters, both fuel and air, cleaned the fuel tank and replaced fuel lines. All of this seemed to help but in the end the problem came back. What I ended up doing was replacing the fuel pump. It looked like a transfer pump up by the govenor. After I changed it out the thing ran fine and it was only around 150 bucks.
If you have run 15/40W for any length of time in your detroit your rings will be carboned up causing them to stick. This will be the source of your low compression on some cylinders also your black smoke (unburned fuel) and your hard starting. If you run your engine under heavy load for an extended period you will eventually sieze a piston. Have run detroits myself for 36 years, dad started running them in the 40's. Just recently purchased a 220 Fmc tracked skidder that had the same symptoms. As dad said years ago she needs a jimmy tune-up (cylinder kits), my first inframe out in the woods took 8 hours, and I had never seen the insides of a 53 series. In the 70's when the 92 series came out brother was shop forman the detroit dealer in town, they recommended 15/40w. I saw literally dozens of those motors that died horrible deaths, I also saw later the memo to make sure your customers switched to straight 40w oil and to not tell them that this was the cause of their engine problems. The 53's and 71's tolerated the sulfated ash in the multi weight oil longer (possibly because of the lower power and demand on the engine as most 92's were truck applications). Even with straight 40w we had numerous slipper bearing (wristpin) failures. Also keep in mind that the recommended oil change interval is only 100 hours. And no just because you add oil regularly does not mean that you don't have to change oil. And done right detroits don't leak, the Cat motors I've had leaked far worse than any 2 stroke I ever owned.
sorry but im new here .what engine is this??
Another thing to check is the rocker arm bushings. If they are worn the valve clearance will be incorrect. Remove the valve cover and place a screwdriver tip between the rocker and the pushrod base then pry back and forth. If there is movement the rocker bushings are worn out and need replacing.
Lube for these things is an interesting subject. The world has moved on so far from the CF2 spec. It can be hard to find, because it doesn’t sell, so it sits in the warehouse and expires. Today, IMO, Delo 100 40wt is probably the best bet for coming closest to meeting the old specs. From memory, Delo 100 has a higher TBN and lower sulfated ash content than Rotella T1 or Delvac 1240. The Delvac 1240 is popular with the 8v-92 bus crowd. There is a small blender in NY called Miles Lubricants LLC that produces MILES MONOGRADE HEAVY DUTY XHD DIESEL ENGINE OIL in 30wt and 40wt with a CF2 API rating. Popular with the marine crowd.
Lots of good advice so far. Looks like HEF has some old school Jimmy guys. These things are fairly easy to diagnose because you can pretty much see everything. Someone briefly mentioned looking at the rings. I recommend pulling the air box covers and rotating the engine so you can see the rings through the exhaust ports in the liner. Take a small screwdriver and poke the piston rings. They should have some bounce to them. If not, they are stuck. Most likely with carbon. Now, look to see if there are any broken rings or missing rings. And, look to see if there is any cross hatch left of the liner walls. This can often tell you more than a compression test will. Plus, much faster. Nobody has the right tooling, anyways. Plus, you need to do a tune-up once you are done. Just observing the air box drain(s) can tell you a lot about the liners, rings and pistons. I bet She is slobbering like crazy. You have been running 15w-40, so She probably needs a in-frame like the other guys have mentioned. It’s fairly straightforward. Easy Peazy.
Like me, did you read this whole post before realizing its 10 years old? Now I wonder how he made out. It would really be nice if posters would let the post and the people that helped know how it ended. Its good for future reference that way also.
Lol. No. It’s fun anyways. The old timer probably gave up on it. Yeah, a follow-up would be nice.