I've got a 1980 JD 410 backhoe that has completly died on me. The engine runs perfectly with only 100hrs on it since a top end rebuild but the tractor will not move at all in any gear and the hydraulics have completly quit as well. No loader, hoe or stabilizers. I've got no way to pressure test it so we cracked a few lines and got no pressure anywhere. I've pulled the rad to get to the pump and the hyd. cooler was empty and the pump had very little fluid in it. i've had lot opinions form local mechanics but none were willing to do the work on it. I'm personally leaning towards the tourque converter as it seems there is no fluid leaving the tranny but i'm not sure. Anyone have any ideas?
Have you checked the hydraulic reservoir, I know you probly have and if its full "enough" does it have a shut off valve that may be closed? A lack of fluid could/would cause your symtoms. One more question does your trans and your hydraulics share the same reservoir? If not then you have two seperate problems.
I beleive hydraulic system is driven off front of engine with driveline thru transmission. I agree with wrenchbender 2 seperate problems.
thanks for the replys guys, this tractor is a bit of a different breed. the trans. holds all your fluid. (which i've checked and changed) It's a 4 speed manual with 2 ranges and a hydraulic shuttle in a nut shell it seems like there's no fluid leaving the tranny
have you checked the coupler on the pump? they are known for stripping and tearing up the couplings. also if it is like my 401c skiploader it has an internal pump that supplies the power steering and the hydraulic pump with fluid from the sump. does the power steering work? my guess would be you are not getting any oil to suction side of pump.you mention torque convertor but I think with your trans and gear arrangement what you actually have is what is known as a wet clutch. does it have a separate clutch pedal? it sounds like my 401c and some of the older jd hoes i have run. does it have a dipstick behind your right heel to check the hytran level? Bill
When I pulled the pump I checked the coupler over it looks good. As far as the power steering goes, when we towed it into my shop I don't remember it being super hard to steer but it was 3 months or so ago so I'm not totally sure. I'm thinking it may be the internal pump, but my service manual is sorta vauge on where it is. It's got a clutch with a flip up lock that allows you to push the pedal all the way to the floor for cold starting. (the owners manual says this completely disengages the motor from the trans) I'm pretty sure the previous owner drove the machine with the lock up! it does have a dipstick rite behind your heel. can you elaborate on the wet clutch? I've heard of them but I'm not quite sure how they work
I can only relay what I was told when I bought it back in the late 80's. I was told it uses internal hydraulic pressure for full lockup on the clutch. I have never had to split it apart so cant really say what the innards are like. does your pump have a t-handle on it to relieve hydraulic pressure? mine is located toward the left front of pump. It can be cranked in to bypass pressure for easier starting,but you wont have any hydraulic function when it is turned in. Bill
on the lower right sid eof the tranny there is a check valve that controls the flow of oil to the front pump, we had a 410 abou tthe same vintage that stopped all hyd functions, but it moved , it turned out that after a long time ( 8 yrs ) we pulled the check valve out and fooled with it, but it back in and we got hyd. back, it is on the lower riight side of the tranny/hyd. case under a hex head plug if I remember right. I`m not sure about why you have no tranny but that could be maybe the savanger pump in the tranny also ????
My front pump does have a starting aid on it like you say but it is an electric solonoid, going back to my owner's manual it says this disengages the pump during cranking for cold starting. I wasn't really looking at it tho because I'd think that the tractor would still move if this valve was sticking also it died on me while using it not starting. terratrac300: I'll be going to my shop shortly and i'll check on that Thanks for the help so far guys, i'll update you when i get back.
The transmission pump supplies charge pressure to the hydraulic pump. If the transmission filter bypass valve sticks open it will not supply oil to the hydraulic pump. If the bypass valve is good check the trans pump pressure.
as best as I can tell the transmission filter bypass valve is above the trans filter that sits vertical, seems to be the only hex head plug i can find other than the two drains. Does that sound rite?
Just an update: I spent a few hours last evening putting my front pump, rad and air cleaner back in the tractor. I ran it for a bit to bleed the air from the cooling system. Today i'll pull out what I think is the tranny filter bypass valve and check it out. We also got the hoe lifted and chained up so we can move it outta the shop if i can't fix it myself. The local On-track or Nor-track (I dunno which they go by now) is the only shop that will look at it. so i may have to float it there if my attempts all fail.
just remembered that I had an issue with the hose from the cooler collapsing and starving the pump years ago. I don't think this would keep you from having drive to the wheels. Bill
I double checked the cooler hoses and everythings good there, I still haven't got too the tranny filter bypass valve. i've been swamped most evenings Plowing.
Sorry to hijack the thread somewhat, but I could not post a new topic. I am looking for opinions good or bad on th JD 310A model backhoes. I am thinking about looking at one and cannot find anything about it other than it fits my hp requirements. Mark
they were a little light in the front for heavy digging but they also did not sink as bad in swampy mud. good hydraulic power also. parts should be easy to get. good on fuel. Bill
well i was finally able to find a mechanic with some hyd. knowledge to come in and help me. After checking the main pump and a few relief valves he's come to the conclusion that it must be the clutch. His reasons were: there isn't much else that would cause the whole machine to die, and when he got looking he realised the linkage for the clutch only moves 1/8th of an inch when pressed all the way to the floor also it's the first thing to remove to get any farther into the tranny. So today's job: wash underside of machine, undo all hoses lines and wires, block it up and split it. Anyone got any tips for me?
I would put the hoe and outriggers down to stabilize the back half. lots of blocking and taper wedges to hold it without lifting it. front bucket flat on 2 @x4's resting on floor with at least 3-4 ft. of clearance in front to roll it away from back half.grease the 2x4's to help the bucket slide. 2 very meaty floor jacks or a crane to suspend front and roll apart. it should have a basic input shaft thru center of clutch. when you unbolt the pressure plate be sure to mark it's orientation as they often have some shoulder bolts in at least two holes. have at least one helper. I split a jap tractor this summer by myself but needed help to put it back together. good luck and keep us posted. Bill
hello i have a 73 jd 410 backhoe with problems to tranny as well ifound out that there's a transmission pump in the rear housing that runs with about 135 to 165 psi you can check this at the valvebank for the forward /reverse it should read same pressure in forward neutral and reverse with gear shift in neutral if there is no pressure pump is likely gone bad if this is the case you lose everything because the main pump in the front to run loader and hoe is not a self suction pump but need to be fed oil and this is what the tranny pump does hope this was help full still trying to find out what's wrong with my 410 but i still have function of loader and hoe and have trany pump pressure so likely a internal leak in hydr clutch inside hope you have luck finding the problem
Awhelan: what did you ever find out on your problem?
I did. The clutch runs on a splined shaft the bolts to the reverser housing which in turn bolts up to the tranny. Well the splines on that shaft have been completly stripped off. I'm pretty sure I got ripped off by the previous owner because the clutch itself has very little wear on the splines in the heart, there is no signs of any metal shavings anywhere, the clutch is only a few thou. off off new and the flywheel is only out .001. So i figure he didn't know how to pull this shaft from the reverser so he had them put an new clutch in it and then dumped it It also needed a throw out bearing and pinion bearing badly i'm gonna post some pics for you guys tomorrow
Awhelan, I'm glad ya found your problem and got it sorted out. I have to go check a 310 JD in the morning with the same symtoms as your 410. I'm hopeing for an easier fix than yours though.
I haven't had time to get any pics yet but I got another unrelated question for you guys. The manual says when operating the hoe have the range shift lever and gear shift lever in neutral and NOT to have the reverser lever in reverse. So do I leave the reverser lever in neutral or forward? Oh, Wrenchbender how'd the 310 go?
I think that's more of a safety issue than mechanical. I'd run with the reverser in nuetral, it's how I ran when I had mine.
Hey Awhelan, sorry for the delay in repling to your question. I did go by and check the 310 out shows the same symtoms as your 410. So unless I missed some thing I'll be pulling the engine to replace the inputshaft on this machine as you did on yours. Just waiting on the machine to make it to my shop now when that'll happen :beatsme but I'll let ya know exactlly whats wrong with it when I tear into her.
Well the 310-A arrived early on Wensday, I tore into it today and located the problem. The TOB flew apart and tore all the fingers and springs out of the pressure plate assy. So the disc was not turning with the engine and niether was the main shaft, so the lift pump was not charging the main pump. I'll try and post a few pics of it pulled apart in a day or so.
As you can see its all apart in the 1st pic, the 2nd one shows all the springs,PP levers and an exploded throw out bearing layin in the housing. The 3rd shows the Pressure Plate missing all its hard ware. Now just what caused all this to happen :beatsme But I'll be looking for a cause before putting it all back together.
Wow i'veever seen anything like that before, Mabey one of the springs or fingers let go and caused the other 2 to fail? OR I bet the throw out bearing locked up solid and just tore the fingers rite off. When I find my pics of my repair i'll post em My machine's got 10 more hrs on it now and it seems good now.
It is a mess thats for sure, I'm not a 100% sure what failed first. Although I think the TOB went through the pressure plate and caused all of this. And yeah I would really like to see the pics of your repair when ya get time to post them.
Here's a few, I'll take some of the damaged input shaft soon
Hey Awhelan, looks like we went at these animals a little different as in the plan of attack. Seams to be 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. BTW thats a nice big roomy shop ya got there.
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