Been reading here quite some time and getting ready to retire. I want to get a JD 450 or similar size dozer for woodlot maintenance, log road building and the building of 2 homes on my property. Will not be using it for income or if so very little since I would be paying for transport. I would like to stay in the $15-20k range. My son and I are very mechanically able to keep a machine running. What are ball parks figures for undercarriage rebuilds ? Hopefully I am wording this next question properly but would it be better to spend less on a machine and just go through it all or buy a machine that is in the 75% range ? I see machines in the $8.5k price range and up. So am I better off spending less knowing I may have to put up to $10k into it but then have a machine that will last ? Like I said this will be a woodlot/home building machine and something to play with in retirement around my property. I also plan on buying a backhoe. And if I buy a machine should I go out and buy a hot water pressure washer from a place like Northern tool to keep up the machine ? Thanks for any input, Ed.
I had a 450 C for probably close to 20 years. They are great machines for what you probably want it for. The undercarriage is not in my opinion what should concern you. It is the H-L-R transmission. Steering clutches. and engine. Get someone who knows 450's to check it out first. The undercarriage you can see what needs work.
where abouts upstate are you located?? also the earlier 450s were known for lose bolts around the tranny and frame cracks in the same area...
Yup, check the cross bar on the front of the machine for welds or missing bolts. Make sure both tracks spin and that both brakes work. I think the C or D models and newer are wet clutches but the older machines are dry clutched. I have a straight 550 and it does allright. Parts are still available is the good part!
You're not Nige running a fleet of less than 5 year old D9's 24/7 and rebuilding every 20,000 hours. For $20k, get one with enough undercarriage to last your son's lifetime. Get one with worn out undercarriage, and most likely the whole thing is similarly worn out. I'm guessing that most smaller machines like this never get a new undercarriage, or a rebuilt engine. You could, but they're so cheap used that it won't be worth the repair. They don't get enough hours per year generally. If somebody needed to do that much work, they'd have bought a bigger dozer.
I would suggest that you consider a track loader with a clam shell bucket for more versitility. You give up the angle blade for the ability to move material over distance. In a similar situation I had both machines available and got more results from the clam shell on the front.
To bad I am not closer. I got a 931 Cat with 4n1 bucket and a hoe on it that would probably be a good fit for you. Using it to dig stumps at the daughters home now while we are carving out her yard. Better than decent shape overall but the bucket is worn, not the pins but the cutting edge, teeth, and back of the flip pan mating edges. The engine is a Cat remanufactured (3204) and has under 1,000 hours, the tracks are real good, quick tach backhoe that's tight. Power shift works correctly. My wife says its her machine though. She claims when it showed up in the yard one day, she seen it first and claimed it.
Is it difficult to do clutches on one of these dozers ?
I wonder if I made friends with a Deere mechanic if I could get the straight scoop on a machine and paid him for his time to go look at one for me.
It's not real difficult.... if you're good with wrenches and don't mind some hard work you do have to rip quite a bit of the machine apart to get to em' though...
I did a quick check on Machinery Trader at pricing and 450C machines have an average asking price around $15,500 and average auction at around $9,000. The 450D machines' average asking price is around $17,500 while average auction sales is a little more than $19,500. Keep in mind that the range you are looking at buying has machines that are more that thirty years old. Anything and everything is likely to be worn out or go wrong. Don't lock into just one brand. The size you are looking at includes Cat D3, Dresser TD7 or TD8 and Komatsu D31. To get a better feel for pricing I would suggest you review Machinery Trader for all makes of machines in your price range. The link is below; https://www.machinerytrader.com
In another thread someone stated that the early 450C had dry and the later 450C had wet clutches. Maybe someone here knows how to differentiate between them. By cross bar you must be referring to the heavy crossmember about midway connecting both track frames. I think up to 450C they were cast. I think 450E has the fabricated steel bar which is more forgiving. Don't know about 450D. Always hunt for welds on the cast crossbar. They never seem to hold. Milkie, Don't overlook the Small Case 450 dozers and some of the International/Dresser dozers like TD8E were pretty decent.
As far as I know all the 450C's are wet clutch... some of the last 450B's were produced wet. Unfortunately for me my 450B is not a later model....
Oh, BTW the 450E was one of the worst for problems with the tranny.
Never had a 450E I put many hours on a 455D (loader version of 450D) with a 4 n 1 bucket being interchanged with a tree shear. It was a great machine that was used hard in a logging setting. The only issue I had was with the suction line coming apart under the machine. It has a stupid 3"long piece of hose connecting 2 one inch steel suction lines. Had to drop the skid plate in a swamp to get to it. Changed it to a one piece hydraulic line and the machine never failed again.
I ran Caterpillar, IH, Case and Komatsu's in the 450 Deere size. The John Deere 450H LGP was my favorite small dozer. It was fast, easy to operate and, for me the perfect dozer for finish grading.
Did you buy a machine ? I am in similar situation - need one for 50-100 hours / year for a few years Looking at Cat D3B, TD7/8E Or Komatsu D31 or D37 Anybody have thoughts on what is best one for limited use - Would like to keep it around $10k
Welcome to HEF Chris, Those are all decent machines for small jobs and limited use IMHO. Unless you are extremely lucky, you will only find junk with that budget.
No I have not bought anything yet. I know a Cat mechanic that would go with me to look @ machines when I find something.
As you can see in the pic to the left I have a D31 Komatsu and it is a nice little dozer for fooling around on the farm, it would fit your budget, but not that many around. One of the key items to consider when buying an old/older dozer is if parts are still available to fix problems. Being a good mechanic doesn't matter at all if there are no parts available to fix the problem. If you can find a Cat that you afford, buy that, parts will never be an issue
Does Deere inventory parts for older track tractors?
Yes this is true. My property is fairly flat so no need for a canopy. My ideal machine would be a Cat D3 or JD 450 with a 75-80% undercarriage clutches in great shape,steamcleaned & repainted, nice seat and a winch on the back. Also maybe no more than 3500 hrs and a $17k max price tag. Am I wishful thinking ???????
You want a ROPS canopy unless you're looking at 50 year old machine. 3500 hours on an original undercarriage would likely be ready for replacement. If was already replaced I think what you described is a premium used machine that would be over 20K.
A couple of local farmers have JD & Case machines that are older but seem to be in great shape. Just under lean-to type sheds. Well I guess $20k is in the range if my kids re going to get a machine that will last. Like I said basically property maintenance WHEN we want to do it here and there. Not waiting for somebody to show up for a bunch of nickel and dime jobs. Plus I figure with driveway work, yard leveling,septic backfilling,foundation backfilling log road maintenance in one or two years alone I figure we would be spending about $10k easily on having somebody do it.
You might want to figure 4-5 grand in maintenance costs per year with all the work you're listing.... there is a reason older machines are cheaper than new ones to buy outright and it's not just because of the shiny new paint.
I doubt there is 4-5K in maintenance per year unless the machine is pushed hard and parts are breaking.
Well... parts break wear out without being pushed hard... one minute the machine works and the next it doesn't it's just how things are. I work on lots of different machines, some parts like tracks are easy to see wear and gauge how much is left... gears and clutch packs inside of housings are a different story however same with engines... Just saying it's best to be prepared for the worst and hopefully you won't experience it.
I hear you on stuff breaking when you least expect it. My outdoor wood boiler has been trouble free for basically 24 yrs. Well zone valves are getting hung up, calcium built up in the heat exchanger, tempering valve not working,outdoor piping leaking a little,etc,etc. Hot water heater started leaking so I replaced it after 19 yrs and found all these other little problems. Fixing them all to the tune of about $1800.00. So little things add up on everything. LOL
You mention in your original post that you want to get a backhoe too. I was in the same situation 6-7 years ago. I bought a backhoe with the idea of using it for a year or so and then selling it. It is so handing to have around, I still have it. I also have the use of a friends JD450G. While it has it's place to be sure. There's not much I can't do with the backhoe instead. You talked about getting both. If it was me, I'd get a backhoe first and see if it didn't fit the bill for all your projects. It might be slower for some things, but hey, your retired.
You mention logging/ wood heat. If you’re working trees, you need a ROPS...it’s not just for roll-over. It’ll keep limbs off your head! I chose my track loader for a little clearing, when my little New Holland wheel tractor would have worked (it only has roll at type ROPS), because there were a couple snags nearby and my luck would be bumping one and winding up wearing it as a hat!
A bigger danger than something falling on the ROPS is a tree branch or a sapling getting wedged in a track pad and then it can kill you when it comes around quicker than you can say oh sh##.
Yep, I've been wacked a few times just on wheeled machines from this sort of thing once got knocked right outta the seat!!!
The backhoe is definitely first on the list unless some sort of super deal comes along but I doubt that. Yes looking at all the little nickel & dime jobs I could do with a 'hoe.