ok same 503L galion grader , the front spindle basically has one bolt that holds the outer bear and washer (thus the wheel) onto the spindle . this bolt keeps back out maybe a hour of use or a week of use then wheel falls off as I drive I have tried wire tie the bolt but snapped the aircraft wire yesterday after about 100 feet , I put it back together again (3rd time that day) just to try to get out of road and back home it went a few more feet and the grade 8 bolt snapped this time . am I missing some type of part that holds that wheel on and putting to much pressure on that bolt ? anyone have the parts drawing for the front left spindle to see if I am missing a something seems there should be more then one bolt holding that tilt wheel
Could you post a picture and make clear to us exactly what you need help with?
only picture I have is one of the another time it popped off few weeks ago , right now machine is out road side I have to wait until I get the excavator by there to tow it home to work on. I have the wheel litterial strapped to machine just to keep dust out of bearings, when ever I can get it home if none has the schematics of the front spindle I will try to get some close up pictures to post for you
A better pic. would help but can you see how the other front wheel is attached? Thinking it came loose and that's why it broke. Would Loctite be a solution?
actual it keep coming loose and falling off several times , I think I said I did try wire tie like the other side but it broke the wire and backed out , then next time it snapped the grade 8 bolt instead of backing out . Also it will still be several days before I can recover the grader and get it back here to get pictures, however if someone has pictures of the spindle I can point out what part it is No loctite will not resolve the issue for some reason there is to much force on the left side spindle and wheel just have not figured out why yet
Could the wheel turning be causing the bolt/nut to loosen? There's something different on the left wheel of your grader. Really need to see what you're dealing with. I think the other side might tell you what's wrong.
Could the wheel turning be causing the bolt/nut to loosen? it shouldn't the bolt in spindle has a plate that holds the inside of the outer cone bearing in There's something different on the left wheel of your grader . only thing I can think of is the other wheel has the Hyd tilt cylinder push against it where the left side just follows the tilt of right wheel Really need to see what you're dealing with. again if I had a drawing or picture I show you but I don't I think the other side might tell you what's wrong. well I have cracked open the other side appears the same with exception of aircraft wire ties to cover plate bolts , I tried that on the left side and it clipped the wire . I can't see anything else looks like it missing However i didn't completely disassemble the working side .....I currently have a dead excavator waiting for a high pressure pump sitting in the road about a mile form the grader with a wheel that keeps coming off and a bobcat that doesn't want to start so I have enough projects without taking any extra apart is way I figure it lol
When you get a chance take some pics. and we can see what's going on.
ok just update , I just rescued the grader and carried it back home yesterday. I did call a parts yard they don't have any ideas , but did have the wheel part break down drawing , only part I see that I am missing is the roll pin that hold the washers together so don't think that is my issue , so I am still looking for suggestions anyway we are having little bit of weather here so not able to open it up yet and get pictures , hopefully in a few more days I can get some pictures of it opened up
If that roll pin is there, would it be up against a flat on the bolt head and act as a lock?
actual that is a good point it could be if there is a pin hole in the outer plate to prevent bolt form backing out. BUT wire tieing still should have held if the pin did and still think something pushing out to shear bolt off
Wire tying won't hold against a heavy turning effort like a roll pin would.
On the left side of the machine forward motion is trying to unscrew the bolt holding the wheel bearing retainer plate in place. Compare that with the right side where the same rotational motion is tending to tighten the retaining bolt. Could that be part of the problem.? Also I see adjustment shims #44. What is the adjustment procedure for those tapered bearings.? Have you got the correct quantity of shims in the assembly.? Could the bearings be damaged in some way that is adding to the stress on the bolt.?
Here's the bearing adjustment from my 503L service manual. I agree its time to remove bearings, clean and inspect everything...spindle and inside of hub too....also, verify bearing numbers to see if they are even correct....could be some previous 'repair' history rearing its head? Perhaps the bolt is bottoming out before compressing shims against bearings? Inviting a cocked, binding hub?
Is there a slot in the spindle and nubs(which may be worn or sheared off) on the inside of the washers?
well I have no way to verify the bearing numbers The do seem to fit when I clean off they appear in god shape not to much play no flat spots no grit , I do only have two shims and the compression washer but when cleaned up all seems fit well ...... now I am keeping in mind that all the linkage ball joints are almost as loose as my exwife I may have been over torquing the retaining bolt as I used a impact last time
ok I did find the roll pin also sheared off flat with spindle so didn't see it before , however IF that roll pin lock the retaining bolt form turning I need a hex head of 1" diameter with bolt shaft 1/2-13 by 1.5" long and can't find them , even the grader savage yard in ks said they don't have any left . DOES ANYONE HAVE A SOURCE FOR A HIGH STRENGTH BOLT THIS SIZE? I am including some pictures of it opened up for those who asked keep in mind it been raining and blowing dirt in there for the last week or so and needs to be cleaned and repacked agian
ok only lets me add four pictures at time here is the rest
I would say that’s almost guaranteed seeing as you’re supposed to tighten it with a torque wrench. Cat will sell one. I’ll look up a Part Number. Are you certain about the 1.5” length.? It seems awfully short considering that it has to go through the retainer plate first. How deep is the threaded hole in the end of the spindle.? Question: Is the outside bearing a taper roller or a ball bearing.? From the parts drawing it appears to be one piece where the inside bearing is clearly 2 pieces.
I thought the same thing to but that is with retainer plate and just short of bottom out think last time mite have bottomed with impact ........ I admit was frustrated considering that was 3-4 time that day I put it on yes both inner and outtter are two part cone bearings and race
did you happen to find a cat part number that the bolt has that 1" head?
Seems to me the roll pin will stop the washers from turning. Which will stop the bolt from loosening. You don't need a special bolt just another washer without a hole to keep the pin in place.
that is possible , I think the pin should stop the washers form turning and the cover plate I am thinking will hold the pin in place, however, at this point if there is a bolt out there with the right size head that pin can also hold bolt form backing off I would really like to just get it and be done with it so I can use the grader with out worrying about it anymore.
You could pull the cover off the other side to confirm the bolt head and pin size.
With bearing wear you might need additional shims to attain the correct preload for rolling torque....at 50 ft/lbs on the bolt. Just to help git'er done, heres a link to spring scale https://www.amazon.com/SNAIL-TRAIL-Aluminum-Hanging-Luggage/dp/B0B9B5WGJT/ref=sr_1_13?crid=174F30192D0FQ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.1Q4-IJXw8EpZSfqUwfTKjgl-isw1SdFgejFwm1SZhxHszq2uBxBbseY78U6u52MZS3YsRpTXnOplrgmBBzgzX4P9jfDlNHmhrBX7A6O158EGnVV6b_U2UbuxSPA2UNKNwIvaCVlM6X9XkbixDpZ1Ou20zvvPhbzt4EeOOJ8QNZyR2_1co7j_URQ0UCFrHuahKimN61B-iG8xHN48CfM4fQscygcHMZ2GpeY-wVHZKmk.b3qKU-A8eExVnfGxjoFHXxhVo4rFXptiB_6I-Cbrwus&dib_tag=se&keywords=spring%2Bscales%2Bpounds&qid=1712288655&sprefix=Spring%2Bscale%2Caps%2C429&sr=8-13&th=1 and you can get shim stock at napa and make additional shims
I think I mentioned this before but mite have been in another thread. I did peak into the right side however it has four wire ties to the plate bolts so I did not remove all the way and disassemble. I am firm believe in "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and I have enough problems right now with the left side wheel to last me away lol I am just trying to get it usable again as we have a very long easement road as only access and really need this grader running to get proper grade and drainage one day well get rock but not in budget for right now I have physical measured the pin to center of bolt to get the bolt head size of 1" , MacmasterCarr has a B7 bolt with a 7/8" head that mite be close enough to work but if other guy can find a cat part number for one with the 1" head I just going to try to find one of those
Sorry, no. I thought I had seen some non-standard bolts listed but I can't find them now. A photo of the intact RH side without disassembling might help. I can't get my head around the "it has four wire ties to the plate bolts" when the bearing retainer plate only has one bolt. Or are you referring to the bolts for the outer cover plate being lock-wired.? Dunno about anyone else but I can't see any reason at all to lock-wire the cover bolts because all they do is keep the grease in. An off the wall suggestion FWIW. You say you only have 2 shims in there at the moment. I imagine they are only quite thin, 20-30 thousandths maybe.? Cut a disc of 1/16" plate with the same OD as the shims and drill a hole in the centre for the bolt. Install that with the shims, cover plate and using just a regular 1/2" bolt tighten it using no more than a power handle. Then grab hold of the top & bottom of the front tyre and feel for play in the bearings. If you can feel movement then the bearings are too loose, but you have proved the point that previously the bearings were too tight, not enough shims in other words.
Ok thanks anyway for looking for the bolt . yes the four wire ties go to the four bolts on the cover plate so if cover come off so do wires, at this point I image at some point someone has been in that RH wheel at some point, but to me its working and I really don't want to mess with that side for that reason. yes the shims are thin, I haven't mic them but I image they are more like 10 thousand each , I could try some extra shims , either see if napa has some or make some like you suggested . I have previous done basically what you have said several of the times I hand tightened it before and I honestly expected to feel some slop but really bearings feel tight they spin but can't notice any freeplay . when i bought it the guy said he just put new chains on rear an some other stuff i thinking he replaced this bearing but don't know for sure
That's probably as good an indication as any that there are not enough shims in the assembly. If you go down this route I would also suggest that when you are attempting to set the bearings remove the wheel/tyre assembly first. It will make it easier to "feel" for the bearing adjustment without having to fight against the weight of the wheel. Also when you go to reassemble post some photos showing the condition of the bearing rollers and of the bearing cups where the rollers run. Do this after you have cleaned off all the existing grease.
I'd take a different approach. You have 1 side you can't keep the wheel on and 1 side without that problem. You don't want to disturb the good side because it has 4 tie wires. Removing the 4 tie wires, that may not even be needed, seems like something pretty simple that could reveal what the problem is. Shouldn't be hard to replace the tie wires. Pics. of both sides might help.