Hey everyone I have been bumping around the site for a while now and at one time found a thread about a pump rebuild someone did and I cant find it again. So does anyone know where I can get a kit to do a rebuild on this particular pump? The reason I think I need a rebuild is becsuse of the return line over preasure problem where it will run at idle for a few and then cut out on me crack the return line and fuel is under lots of preasure. Any way not sure if important or not but model says 3 or 8 is first # then 103478 made by roosa master
I will offer this link to a thread, but I do NOT know if this is the kind of pump you have. You can read to see if this is any help. If this is the thread you were thinking of it may not be applicable to yours.
No that was not it. Hoping Oldman or GWS will happen along soon they prob know right where it is Thanks though bowen
Ahh, I have a Case 585c (forklift version ofthe 580c).Itsa roosamaster pump. I believe what they call the "governor ring" is breaking up in mine, causeing the return check valve to get plugged, it was idling rough, got to the point where it wouldnt run since the return complete plugged. Google search "jdemaris" Hes a retired deere mechanic, used to "reseal" these pumps in an hour or 2 and change the governor ring. My local shop will sell me the parts for $50. I even got a spare similar roosamaster off a old genset for practice. Any questions just ask.
Yep thats the one did a search found him on yesterday tractor gonna try and contact. I am not afraid to try anything myself long as I have a book or step by step lol. Anyway perhaps I will just order individual parts through colman and go piece by piece. THanks brother for the lead. just ordered 14 replacement cyl kits and all filters on the machine so lots to do and learn. The members here have already been so much help Im so glad The old Man went before me sos I have a brain to pick
A question for you since you did the build already did you repair everything in it or just parts? Thank man
Actually havent touched it, been procrastinating too much. Its about 32 degrees and raining. LOL Also look up "sm 2045" itsa deere service manual on those pumps and injectors. The local guy quoted me like $500 for the rebuild, hell I paid $800 for the whole thing..plus I lke to do things myself.
I picked up a seal kit off ebay from a Grady Erwin. Real nice guy to work with. I took a photo of the label plate on the pump and he sent me the kit. I think it was around 30.00. It was kit #24371. The injection pump is not hard to rebuild if you take the time to make a holding fixture to bolt it to and put in a bench vise. I used an old piece of plate and drilled a hole in it. A few things to take note of when taking it apart are: 1) which side the pressure advance piston is on. 2) watch how the centrifugal weights come out. 3) careful how you disconnect the governor and spring (leave it connected at the front end) 4) get the EID replacement flex coupling if you can find it. Easier to put in and supposedly you will not have to fix the flex ring every few years. 5) last and most important, fill the gap between the two small pistons with oil when you put them back in. First time around on mine I forgot that step and it would not pump. Had to take it apart all over. Filled the gap with oil and the engine fired right up. You will also need to replace the driven shaft cup and o-ring seals. I made a tool to put the cup seals in but I think you can buy one. There's a lot of parts in the pump but they all come out and go back in pretty easily. If you get stuck on a part or forget which way it goes back in, post a picture on here and we can help you figure it out.
Here's some pics of the plate to hold the pump. Makes it a whole lot easier to work on and a pic of the governor back together.
The pump guy is located someplace over in the Carolinas I think. I'm surprised he's not in on this thread. Take it off and ship it to him. Hats off to anyone who can do a rebuild these pumps, I would not try it myself. Special tools etc. and they can bench test the unit at some shops. Some of them offer to check the injectors also. I am going to replace some washers and a gasket on mine to stop 3 leaks myself, but no removal and disassembly.
They are really easy to re build if you take note of how the parts come apart. I took lots of photos of the parts step by step as I took them off. The only special tool I needed was the socket for the advance cam screw that sits in the bottom of the pump and the tool I made to install the drive shaft seals. I know folks talk about bench testing and settings and such but if the pump was working and just got clogged up with the flex ring coming apart it will go back together and should work fine. Mine did and the engine is running smooth from idle to full rpms. To me, the tedious part was getting the pump back onto the drive shaft without rolling the cup seals. If you go slow and don't force it, it will go right back on. The photo shows what happens when the flex ring breaks down and plugs everything up and the advance cam screw.
Sounds like you boys got things under control. BUT, if you decide you dont want to tackle it, let me know.
SWEET!!! GWS cant thank you enough I think I can do this. Rather try and fail then fail to try. Will order parts tonight.
When you get the seal kit it will have more seals in it than you will need. The kit usually covers more than one model. Make sure the pressure piston has the little metal ring on it in a groove around the middle of the piston. Mine was missing it when I took it apart but the pump was still working. In the kit is a small square sided O-ring that is different from all the rest of the O rings. That little square sided O ring goes under the metal ring on the pressure piston. Took me a while to figure out how it worked. If the metal ring is missing you can get one at about any diesel pump place. They will know what part you are referring to.
OK finally got a chance to break open the pump and start the rebuild. It was def the gov ring that was clogging up the system there was less than 1/8 of an inch of ring left on two of the studs the rest was gone GWS a few questions, which two pistons were you referring to and what kind of oil did you use? I was lucky enough to get the Bristol bolt out without breaking it but with as much force as it took to get out how do I ensure enough torque is used when putting in back in? and last but not least where did you get the roller space settings thanks again
The pistons are referred to in the manual as "plungers". They are inside the rotor that is in the center of the pump body. You only need to put a small amount of any type of oil (I used motor oil) so they are held apart a tiny bit to let the fuel get between them when you put the injection pump back together. Why it makes a difference for the first start up I don't know but it was the reason mine would not make pressure the first go around on the overhaul. Make sure to put the plungers back into the same hole they come out of. Drop one in and then put a few drops of oil in the hole, then drop the other plunger in. Then slide in the shoes and rollers. Tricky part is holding all this together while you put the leaf spring in place to lock them down. These two plungers work against each other to develop the high pressure for the injectors. As for the roller space settings, when I took mine apart the leaf spring screw was set all the way down as far as it would go. I backed that off just a little to cut down on the amount of fuel going to the injectors. Hasn't seemed to make a difference in the engine as far as I can tell. Might show up in a stall test though. If you don't have the Stanadyne manual, I can send you a copy in PDF.
Yes sir I would love a copy thank you once again for all of your help!!! Ok the entire pump apart on the stand now and just got to the point of putting the leaf spring on so I am glad you told me that before I went any further I will extract the rollers and put some oil in there.
I sent you a PM on the manual.
I've been hoping to get brave enough to rebuild mine, sounds like maybe I can make it throug h it... It started running rough a couple months ago, I hope its this not something in the block. Thanks!
Not sure if rough running could be caused by the injection pump. Mine would run fine and then just shut down. Let it sit for a few minutes and it would start back up and then shut down. I'm no expert on these pumps but the way they are designed, if they get fuel they will pump. If there is anything broken in them they usually don't work at all. Even if the flex ring is dissolved into small pieces, as long as the rivets aren't sheared off they will still work until the junk plugged up the pressure side. Before I tore into the pump, I would look for something blocking the fuel or water in the fuel or maybe the injectors getting plugged up. It could still be the pump but I would try to eliminate everything else before I tore into it.
roosa master stanadyne JDB debris inside Hi GWS, I have the same fuel injection pump JDB roosa master. I found the same debris inside. From where these debris could come! Could you tell me what part or parts are making the problem! Just a little fuel is coming out from the injectors because The fuel path is clogged with debris. This stanadyne pump is on john deere engine 4219 df that drive a sullair compressor 185 cfm. Any thouhts please! Thanks
If it looks like dark sand grains it will be from the flex ring. The pump can usually be rebuilt with a 30.00 (US) kit that can be purchased from several places on the internet. It does take some work to tear apart the pump but it really is not that hard to do if you take some photos as you go and make note of how the parts came out so they can be put back in the same way. I would go for the newer flex ring that is a solid unit and you won't have to worry about it doing the same thing a few years down the road. Cost a little more but it is worth it and easier to replace. The flex ring is a bit of a pain to get installed on the rivets. Check everything closely and replace or fix anything that shows wear or damage. Be sure to thoroughly clean the pump body passages and parts of all the junk from the flex ring. Blow compressed air through every hole you can find to make sure it is clear. Be sure to rotate the engine so the timing marks line up on the injection pump BEFORE you take the pump off and then don't move the engine while the pump is off. Then you don't have to worry about timing the pump when you put it back on. Line up the timing marks in the pump timing window, slide the pump on and then rotate the pump left or right if needed to line the marks up and you are ready to go.
I put a few seals on the throttle shaft a year ago to fix a leak, all was fine till I ran it out of fuel one day. I thought I had everything bled good but couldn't explain the rough running that started so had hoped that would be the problem. Have an occasional leak from the bottom of the pump but it's pretty rare. Sorry to lead your thread away.
Should a guy pull the injectors and have someone test them first off?
There are others on here that can offer way more knowledge about troubleshooting the fuel system than I can. What little I have encountered with rough running diesels are air getting in the fuel line, rust from the fuel tank or a plugged up air filter. I did help a neighbor with his 480C that turned out to be in one of the injectors not spraying right. You should start a thread and see what other folks have experienced and what they found. They can help you walk it through the troubleshooting.
Well I have been working hard at the job that currently keeps my many projects going! Anyway, In my opinion anyone who has the time, patience and hates to pay someone for something that you can figure out for your slelf then read all the treads on this topic and get the manual GWS has or I will provide it for you. Once this is done go for it
Shrmndlit, could I get a copy of your manual, I bought a copy off ebay a couple years ago, its a poor photocopy though, maybe the one you have has better info? Thanks-
Just sent you a PM. I also bought the one from ebay which was trash compaired to the on Old Man sent me.
Thanks! Pm'd you.
roosa master stanadyne JDB model Hi GWS! I have taken the JDB fuel pump off but without its shaft. I need a puller tool to extract it. I have 2 questions for you GWS. -A- you mentioned in the last email a solid flex ring. is it just one or several of them that have to checked and replaced if damaged!!!!. -B- I did not pay attention when I removed the pump from its place. Now I think I have a problem with timing when installation comes. How to time both engine and pump from scratch !!!! Thanks!
Hopefully the shaft stayed on the engine. You will need to replace the two cup seals and I think an o-ring seal on the shaft when you put the pump back on the shaft. I made a tool to install the cup seals as the shaft has a few ring groves that make getting the seals on without damaging them tricky. You can usually pick up the little plastic tool at diesel shops. The flex ring replacement is called an EID. (Elastomer Insert Drive) and can be also gotten from a diesel repair shop. Usually around 30.00 to 40.00 dollars US. They can be found on a number of internet places. The repair kit with the normal flex ring runs about 30.00 or less. Since you have to take the pump apart to fix the flex ring, might as well replace all the seals at this time. There should be a small plate on the right side, back rear of the engine (bell housing) that covers a small hole. It only has one bolt holding it down. Rotate the engine until you see a timing mark appear (Don't use the starter for this). This will put the engine at TDC for timing the pump. Then slide the pump on the shaft and line up the timing marks in the pump window. The pump can rotate in the bolt holes as they are slotted so the marks on the pump will line up. Line those marks up on the pump before you slide it on the shaft. If you don't find a mark on the flywheel through the small hole then you are going to have to remove the valve cover and the number one fuel injection nozzle to set the engine at TDC. There are several things you will need to check inside the pump so be sure to look everything over closely.
Can anyone describe the amount of diesel being pushed back to the tank? I have a JD 4219 that will run then stall then die, I replaced the Injection pump,filters ,lift pump but no change. The return line at the tank kinda just spits fuel while running and I don't know if there should be a steady stream I never looked when it was running good so I have no idea how much fuel should be returning. Thanks
The amount of fuel that returns to the tank varies with engines, injection pumps, rpm and probably some other factors as well. I am not a diesel mechanic and only know how things work after I have had to repair them. As for the engine problem, looks like you have replaced the items usually associated with the symptom you are having. I would start looking for something in the tank plugging the fuel line. Does the fuel system have a solenoid that shuts off the fuel? Or you could be sucking air somewhere in the fuel lines. I had that problem on a tractor and it drove me nuts till I found the leak at the fuel filter. Engine would run for a few seconds then start running bad and shut down. Would start right back up but with the same results every time.
By Chance is someone on tnat can tell a newby how to PM someone? Thanks!!
By chance is there someone on that can tell this newby how to PM someone...need to get a copy of the manual for the pump on this thread. Thanks!!!
Newb here but that pump looks just like the one on my JD400, Mine had the same coffee grounds inside too. I made a "tool" for the shaft seals out of a plastic baggie.Its thin enough to slide in the seal and carefully pull the plastic out. I have one of the roosamaster seal tool thingys and use the baggie trick instead.
Shrmndit, From reading this thread it seems you have a manual I need for the ip on the ole 580b as mine looks typical with the debris etc. however I am brand new to this thus am limited both by the system and forom knowledge and don'r seem to be able to pm you...? So am hopeing to somehow get ahold of you and get you to send the pdf which I would appreciate very much! Thanks !! Shooterp314
GWS, Could I get you to send me a copy of the manual please? Not sure how to pm you but you should get an email from me reply to this...I hope and think that I have figured that much out about the forum so far!? Or if need be I can post my email address on here.... I appreciate your time!!
I PM'd you so you can just reply to that message.
PM reply It looks like I accomplished getting my email address heading your way...?
WOW I've read that you can take out the throttle shaft for 0 ring replacement while on the machine. Anyone have any knowlege of this?? Thanks, Pat
What pump do you have?
Hello everyone, its been along time since I have posted but Im back. I have been waiting for over a year for my dash and finally got the pieces back and put it together myself. So time to put the Injection pump back on and have a few concerns, I hope and prey Oldman or GWS is still around. First since I rebuilt the pump a year ago and it has been sitting on a shelf is there any concerns with it sitting. I had all of the openings plugged. Second I could have swarn I had the Hoe at TDC when I removed the pump but I lined up the lines on the pump and the key at the end of the shaft on the backhoe in not in the same orientation at the hole in the pump that receives it. I hope this is clear enough. Lastly is there any concern that I should take care of for the backhoe sitting so long before I fire her off?
IF you had the engine sitting "that long".. PULL the injectors.. squirt "some kind of lube" in the cylinders and let it sit for afew hrs..ABOUT 24.. Roll it over afew times by hand...just to make sure its NOT locked-up..NOT JUST 1 BUT 2 OR 3X.. NOW use the starter to blow the lube out. Re install the injectors and give it a try. Good luck and let us know what happens.
Sounds good Im actually installing new injectors so I will do that why I have them out. Any sugestions on getting the pump on correctly or should I just get it on and worry about timing later.
It is absolutely imperative that you have it timed correctly before you even think about trying to start the engine. Especially since you are going to roll the engine over to blow the lubricant out of the injector holes. Serious engine damage is possible if you don't.
OOPS>> Tinkerer, I didn't think of that.. I assumed the pump would be on before heading to the next step.. The Pump "supports" the gear.. It's VERY IMPORTANT to have the pump on BEFORE rotating the engine.. There is a "dot" on the end of the drive shaft.. and theres a "dot" inside the pump.. line up the 2 dots, set the pump about 1/2 way on the slots and you'll be close on timing.. just to get it started. I'm not 100% on the actual engine timing *'s but I think its 8*BTDC on the flywheel. Find the timing access cover on the bell housing.. rotate the engine till you get to 8* and stop.. remove the side cover on the inj.pump and rotate it until the 2 lines meet.. your done.
I have not moved the engine since the pump has been off so no worries there. I put the pump back on using a little SAE 30 on the cup seal and lining up the dots you spoke of PUMPGUY. Once I got it all the way on to the threaded studs it seems to be listing to the left a little bit. I don't remember it being like this when I removed it but that was a year ago. Here is a pic of were it is now and where the engine is lined up at. I ended up pulling the valve cover to find DC if I remember correctly.
Cant tell from your pic if its at 8*.. most importantly.. if your going in the correct direction.. Could be "before TDC" or "after TDC".. you'll know once it fires up.. HEAVY WHITE SMOKE, you got it wrong. Secondly, there are 2 line washers on the banjo bolt at 1:00.. not a big deal, but noticeable to the trained eye. Third> the lines are NOT LINED UP in the window.. BIG RED FLAG.. 4th>> who's the "yahoo" that rebuilt the pump!!! and didn't put a new name plate on it or a new return connector.. IF your CERTAIN {100%** you lined the dots up when you put it on and there are NO LINES to line up in the window..and you didn't move the gear..you put the weight retainer inside the pump on180* off.. I just read your old posts where you said you were going to do it yourself.. sorry for any hard feelings..lol NOT A BIG DEAL THO.. Just "almost" imposable to time accuratly. Just "give it ago" and see if it white smokes..
It would make things a lot easier if you remove the valve cover (again) and verify that you have rocker arm clearance on the intake and exhaust valves on #1 cylinder. It is likely 180° off, (one full revolution). thepumpguy is right, something isn't right with the timing.
Hey no hard feelings at all believe me where I work (Law Enforcement)if you dont have rhino thick skin you will never make it. I did rebuild the pump and the bolt on the top was only for painting as far as the the two washers go I removed them and put them back exactly as I found them. That being said if I only need one then I will remove the other. Any concers with it tilting to the left or should it be straight up and down? I will pull the valve cover and check that im at the right spot. Will let you know what I find. I know there are things that would be common knowledge for the trained eye you spoke of and I will take any comments, ideas or concerns. Im just glad I have a place to go and draw on such a vast amount of knowledge and experience, I thank you all.
The 1 line washer is actually, 1 on the top and 1 on the bottom, [just to be clear.] The "angle" of the pump bothers me abit..all the way to 1 side. Its NOT a HUGE problem on "start up" as long as IT STARTS.. We'll just have to fine tune it.. Tighten everything up and bleed the system all the way to the pump.. loosen the lines AT THE INJECTORS and wait for fuel to squirt out.. Tighten the lines at the injectors and hope she fires up.. NO BIGGIE.. If it doesn't fire..we'll start again.. BTW> love your attitude!! Did you change the weight retainer to the EID ?? or used the old one and put the flex ring on it?
Ok after a few days of searching I have finally found the 60 or 70 pics that chronicle from the point just before removal all the way through the rebuild. I learned taking pics helps me get things back where they belong. When I removed the pump the lines were not lined up on the pump window. Pumpguy are you talking about the post that sits in the middle of the weights? Also what are the implications if I did not have the machine at DC when pump was removed?
No Biggie.. IF YOUR 100% sure you have the dot to dot correct inside the pump, and you put the weight retainer on correctly you'll be fine. Just rotate the engine over 180* and you'll be on the correct stroke and your lines inside the pump will line up .. You DONT HAVE TO have it on TDC when you remove the pump...BUT..you end up writing a novel on the internet..lol Just line up the dots, put the pump centered in the slots, and fire it up..
Go back thru your pics and look on your pump disassembly.. Before you removed the "C" clip on the weight retainer. LOOK and you will see a line on the rotor and a line on the weight retainer.. That's how it should be reassembled for proper "timing line" positioning when reinstalling the pump to the engine. IF IT WAS PUT ON 180* OFF it will be almost impossible to time acuratley. Like I said earlier, just make sure the dots are lined up and center the pump.
The saga continues. I can get her to turn but does not wanna start. What is the minimum things I have to have hooked up to have her run. The wiring is a mess so thinking its some kind of cut out switch somewhere can I take out all of the wiring aside from starter power and ground to start it up?
If the starter will spin the engine. there isnt any cut out switchs.. The inj. pump is a MANUAL cut off.. Make sure the levers are in the RUN position.. Do you have fuel squirting out the injector lines?? they are loose arent they?? They should be, for bleeding purposes.. Just send the dam thing to me.. I'll go back thru it for?? 1 get out of jail free card..LOL
Lol that sounds like a deal! I am getting fuel then tighten lines one by one.
Is this the metal ring you are referring too?
Does anyone have a manual that they could share I am attempting to rebuild my injection pump I ordered the kit
I would love a copy of this as well I bought one from eBay guy sent empty files
Did you get a cd with the files on it or was it a digital download from a file hosting site like Mega-download ?
It was supposed to be a cd but never showed then I reached out and asked for digital download of which he did but it was empty files
Are you saying that you received a CD but it isn't showing the manual (files) on it. I had that happen and it was a fault in the cd drive, or the software that runs it. I put the CD in a different PC and the manual was showed up and I copied it to a thumb drive.
When did roosa pump on my 580C scored one of them old timing paper IH blue ribbon service GSS-1271-c, D-166 and D-188 diesel (same pump) engine manuals on the flea bay for like $18 shipped right to my house and due to the fact it was actually a book I could actually study the pictures on the bench when doing rebuild as well as on the crapper for extra credit. Original price was $1.50 on the cover, still a good deal.
Stanadyne is the name of the company that bought out RoosaMaster.. so search both names for a manual.
Just another plug for the pump guy. He turned mine around in a week and sent back looking like new with all new parts including the permanent flex ring. He gave my bulletproof easy instructions to remove and replace and even loaned me a special tool to help with reinstallation. I spent about 2 hours removing and replacing, it started immediately and runs like new Oh, and hes about 8 states away. These long threads make me wonder why anyone would go through this if there is any doubt.
I never received cd in mail post lost it possibly
Great thanks I’ll give it a shot
This is probably it. I was able to download it. https://www.tractorparts.com/PDFs/Roosa_Master_DC_Series_Fuel_Injection_Pump_Manual.pdf The timing is different for a 580C if it has a mechanical shuttle or a power shuttle.
Excellent Thank you yes it has shuttle shift