Hi guys - I have been having an issue getting my '68 580CK (shuttle shift) warmed up in the cold weather. During the summer I could start up the tractor, put the outriggers down, the tranny in gear and wait about 10 minutes for the wheels to start spinning at a good speed and the old girl would be ready to drive. Now that it is colder, I have had to let the tractor high idle for 30 - 45 minutes until the wheels start spinning as they should. I had been told that this was due to having to let the transmission fluid heat up in the torque converter and shuttle. Going down that path, I found out about some silicone heating pads that I could stick to the two housings (see the link below) to heat the fluid prior to starting. http://www.hotstart.com/silicone-hot-pads/ Two questions: 1) When it takes time from start-up to moving tires, is that truly due to the fluid having to warm up 2) Has anyone ever used a heating pad like this on their transmissions to keep them warm for use in the cold winter months? Thanks in advance for the input. Chip
I have a magnetic one made down Atco's way that I use in extreme cold on my kubota and an old Satoh tractor. They help get you going a little quicker. Your issue sounds more like clogged up screen somewhere in the system than just cold fluid. Phil would be the guy to answer your question as he works on a lot of these vintage Case machines. My 580 K is a little slow in extreme cold but still moves without warmup.
Chip, What oil is in your shuttle compartment? Dash pressure gauge working? You should not have a problem in the summer with sluggishness, maybe the first 30 seconds or so, and it should not need to go up on it's outriggers, unless below freezing. Using #85-140 in the differential compartment adds to the sluggishness problem, but only in winter. Your rear wheels should start turning when up on outriggers and you should be good to go in a couple of minutes. Brakes working okay, not dragging? What does the machine work like when warm? Phil
Our company had couple of the old Case ck b series and had the exact same problem with both of them As soon as it got cold , up on the riggers and let her run for about 10 minutes .Now this was many years ago but we didn't pay much attention to the pressure gauge .I am to curious of what the problem was .Once warmed up they run up and down the road like new
Phil - to answer your questions: What oil is in your shuttle compartment? I am using NAPA All-Purpose Tractor Hydraulic Fluid (this is what the previous owner had used) which is in the entire transmission http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=FHQ85475_0006416239 Dash pressure gauge working? No, I was going to make a separate post on gages, but I need to know what the pressure gage range should be so I can replace it. In the summer, I still have to put it up on the riggers, but the tires are moving within 10 minutes or so. Brakes working okay, not dragging? Yes, I fixed them a month or so ago, with no noticeable change in the time it took to get the wheels moving Once the machine is warmed up and moving, it works great, the longer I run it for, the more reactive the transmission becomes (delays less when shifting shuttle from forward to reverse) I changed all the fluids and filters mid-summer and that didn't seem to have any effect on the performance. Thanks for the help...keep the questions coming! Chip
Chip, I don't think I've ever had a shuttle problem quite like yours. I'd like to know what your shuttle clutch pressure gauge indicates, when you get it replaced. Also curious what a converter pressure check indicates.There have been a few here that have tried ATF in the shuttle compartment, successfully dealing with the machines sluggishness. Some machines are worse than others. Oil viscosity seems to be important. There are 2 separate compartments in your machine behind the engine, and 2 separate fill plugs. Seals on the trans input shaft keep oil types separated. Underneath the machine are 3 drain plugs, excluding the engine. The 2 forward drain plugs are for the shuttle, the rear drain plug, almost at the back, is for the trans/diff. Phil
Phil - from your shuttle pickup screen cleaning post, you have me nearly convinced I need to rip apart the entire tractor and get it cleaned out. Since you mentioned oil viscosity, I have a milk shake throughout the transmission. Though I have flushed the system several times, it kept coming back. I found that the breather on the rear axle compartment was clogged and when I took off the cover, the underside was covered in condensation, so I replaced the breather and am hoping that with the next flush, it will stay clean. I have three fill ports for fluid on the transmission, one for the converter, one for the shuttle and one at the transmission/diff. I used to think (until your above post) that there was only one dipstick for the fluid level, at the transmission. Where is the other dipstick located? Also, what range gauges and where should they be hooked up to get the shuttle clutch pressure and converter pressures. This is something I should be able to easily check. Thanks for the help! Chip
Chip, Don't get in a hurry to take anything apart. He is some info, read post #8 & 10: There are only 2 fill plugs(with dipsticks) on the 580CK trans-axle. The 3rd plug you speak is on the flywheel/converter housing and only used for engine timing. Chip, your trans-axle has 2 separate oil compartments, using 2 different oil types. I'll see if I can get you a picture with both plugs shown. Phil
Phil - I am getting ready to do the fluid changes and was revisiting this thread. I can't find the old thread that talked about what hydraulic fluids to use in the two compartments. Could you tell me what you recommend? (and which goes where) Thanks, Chip
Phil - I finished changing the oil and fuel filters today. When I was done, I got under the tractor and looked over the drain plugs for the transmission. Three plugs total. one under the torque converter, one under the shuttle and one under the rear end. Fluid comes out of all 3 holes. Also, I only have one dipstick, which is located to the rear and left of the shifter, for the gear shift and rear end. Questions: 1) You said the front plug was for timing, is fluid supposed to come out of this hole when draining? 2) There is a fill hole on the right side, at the torque converter. When I look in the hole, there is a rod across the inside of the hole, any idea what this is for? And is this the correct fill port for the shuttle and torque converter? 3) What do you recommend for fluids for the torque converter/shuttle and for the gear shift/rear end? Thanks! Chip
Chip, The transmission/differential uses #80-90 EP, GL-4 rated gear oil. The fill plug/dipstick for that compartment is just behind the trans gearshift cover. The shuttle compartment uses Case TCH fluid and the fill plug/dipstick for it is just in front of the trans gearshift cover, on the shuttle cover. The trans/diff compartment takes at least 20 liters as I recall. The shuttle compartment takes about 2/3 of a 20 liter pail. The converter can't be drained on a CK model and the shuttle oil level needs to be rechecked after about 10 minutes of running, once the flywheel/converter compartment refills. Phil
Thanks Phil! That is my project for this week!
OK so first this is in the worng place but it is my first post so I am quite limited. The Brakes are almost out on my 580 b backhoe. I went through about 25 pages of backhoes yesterday and found out much. I tried search this morning but did not do it right as it gave me everything but 580 brakes. My question is do I have to drain the tranny to fix the seals for the brake and if so do I have to drain both chambers? I found a post as to where to get parts and such so now all I have to do is find some decent weather to do the job. I have the parts book but they are sketchy at least.
My trans does this very thing, but there is a screaming sound, not very loud but the cooler lines that run up the side of the cowl and duck under the hood are vibrating like crazy, feels like pump cavitation so I wonder if its sucking a seal someplace. Brakes might be a good post of its own. On the older ones the brakes are external under a big iron cover with the brake rods going inside.
pressure... I finally got the filter and fluids replaced and the gage installed. When I put the transmission in neutral, the pressure comes about to ~130-140 psi. The transmission whines in neutral as it always has. When I depress the clutch, the pressure drops to zero. When I put the shuttle in gear, the pressure slowly climbs to about 30 psi, at which time the transmission starts to whine, much like it does when it is in neutral. It never gets above 30 psi and the tractor won't push itself (i.e. it won't move) Any ideas on what to check next? I need to get this thing moving, the driveway is becoming a rutted mess. Thanks, Chip