Just bought a 580E with the 4 cylinder cummins, should get it Saturday. When I was looking it over I noticed that once you hit 1200 rpm it is like it drops a cylinder and starts running rough. It starts good and runs smoothe up to 1200 rpm. The miss don't come gradual, it is instant. It seems like it runs a little better around 1800 rpm but not much. I know it could be a number of things, but does any one thing stand out that might cause this? Thanks Jackie
Welcome Jackie S! That is an unusual problem you have there. Does sound like injectors......I would confirm which cyl is missing, by loosening injector lines while it is missing. Check tappets for unusual clearances, I have seen cam lobes worn away on early CDC engines. IF valves are OK - Pull the injectors & have them tested & give it a compression test while they are out. Good luck!
I would change fuel filters and check for restrictions in the fuel inlet and return lines do the easy and cheapest first.
Just want to throw something else in to consider, I have seen the engine mounts completely shot up front allowing the engine to move all over to the point of the muffler hitting the hole in the hood. If the motor is moving badly it may cause a feedback into the throttle linkage making the engine sound like its skipping. do the things suggested by the others but keep this in the back of your mind. Mel
Well, I didn't get it Saturday, the guy said his trailer brakes went out and needed repaired before he delivered it. I appreciate everyones help.
My engine mounts were mush and I have all three off. I need to know if I can pry the engine up in the front high enough to get the new mount in WITHOUT removing the hydraulic pump/frame mount etc . Mine is the 580 Super E and the drawing shows this mount to go in from the top, while the 2 rear mounts sit up from the bottom..
Prying the engine is a little difficult if you are by yourself. Use a bottle jack on the sump bolts to do the lifting. The front should raise enough without removing the pump, if not, well it's only two more bolts - leave the hoses attatched. You will need to lift the rear as well for the back mounts. Coat them with some rubber grease - it will help them slide into place & the weight of the engine will insert them into the housings / chassis.
Engine Mount 580SE "Rubber Grease"? I don't have any. How about vasoline? It looks like 2 bolts for the pump, but the bigger problem is the 4 bolts that hold the support frame on. These 4 bolts are easy to remove, but I read where I need to use a dial indicator and a special tool to get the spline realigned properly. Also I don't see how I could do this without removing the hoses and make real mess. Maybe I can find a place underneath to jack the engine front up 2 1/2". I have a floor jack. Are you calling the sump the part between the oil pan and the shuttle? Thanks for your help.
Rubber grease is a special lube used that will not affect the condition of rubber - (used in brake master cyl assembly). Vasolene is petroleum based & will start to deteriorate your new mounts. Oil & grease kill rubber. No need to remove the 4 bolts for the pump mount & if you did they are doweled. You would only have to dial gauge the bracket if there was a problem with the dowels. If you just needed another 1/2" or so to get the front mount in, & the hyd pump was touching the bottom of the radiator, by removing the 2 mounting bolts & withdrawing the pump, just a little, the pump would hang on the hoses & give the extra clearance req to do the job. - Pretty sure it can be done without touching the pump, I just haven't fitted E mounts for a while........ The sump IS the oil pan - I always use a bottle jack on the heads of the bolts, as jacking on the pan WILL dent it!
I am still looking for the rubber grease locally. So far all I found is "radiator hose" grease in the very small packets at Autozone. I do find this online several places, and I SURE need some. O-Rings and brake caliper pins. I have probably been buying this same stuff in brake pad kits, but never knew it as "rubber grease." Per this photo I canot see how removing the hydraulic pump will help me. The front engine mount sits under the frame mount with the 4 bolts. I do see bushings shown where the 4 bolts attach to the engine. This weekend (if the mounts from Coleman arrive) I will try to jack the engine up high enough to get the front mount in. I have the radiator and oil cooler off so I do not have to worry about the fan shroud/fan issue. I am just nervous about what else might need to be disconnected before jacking up on the engine. Thanks again for you help.
I have never heard of rubber grease myself. But silicone rubber lubricant is readily available about everywhere. That would include auto parts stores, hydraulic hose shops and hardware stores.
I beleive Permatex makes a product that auto shops do use on brake cylinder and caliper boots .It comes in a small toothpast size tube . It is also used for wire plugs that you would see under the hood of your car .In the cooler climates it helps stop corossion from salt . It is a must .It could as well be silicone base. If you need i will get a name and product number for you
You will not need dismount the front support, usually even with the radiator in place just removing the plastic shroud bolts to allow the fan to move up is sufficient room to install the mounts. Mel
white silicone spray grease, just the cheap stuff from autozone or wherever. I use it on window seals and stuff, they dont dry out and it been working for years for my old man
Thanks. I actually had plenty of "rubber grease" and did not know it. I have the white spray silicone plus some CRC Brake lubricant in a tube that I bought at Napa for $3.00 The 3 engine mounts are suppose to be here tomorrow UPS and I will get them in Fri or Saturday. My Oil Cooler and the radiator was leaking, but all is fixed now and ready to put everything all back together. New belt, tensioner, tach cable fitting. I can attest to fluid deteriorating rubber engine mounts. I got lots of leaks and all 3 mounts wers just mush... Next project will the the parking brake pads and a leaking shutoff under the fuel tank.
A product called "KY Jelly" is available at a chemist if you ever get stuck. Safe for rubber...LOL
Jackie does that super E have the disk brake style parking brake?
It does have a round/drum/disc looking parking brake in front of the transmission. I was looking at something else and just noticed the parking brake, didn't notice details. I will try and get a better look first chance I get. Jackie
The parking brake parts for mine were all missing .So I rounded up the majority from a wreck .As I went to install them I had noticed that the spline was striped that the disk slides on .Looks like a major job to replace that shaft .I did not mention my 580 SE is not 4x4 . I assume that shaft also is for the the front wheel drive models ??????????? Bill
To my surprise, the parking brake on my 580SE works great. Mine is 4X2 also. Sorry,I can't help you about the shaft. Jackie
The term "Parking Brake" does not seem so important, but it sure is helpful for me. I would say the cover must come off, and the splined shaft is available. But I do not know if you can replace the shaft from the front cover or not. You have to find the serial number on the transmission when looking at the parts diagram.
I did get all three in just by jacking up the engine, BUT if I ever do this again, I think I will first disconnect the drive shaft. Maybe I was an idiot and should have thought about this earlier. I already have a seal leaking where the drive shaft goes into the transaxle. But after jacking the engine up I think I can see that this further stressed this seal. I am thinking it would be a good idea to just drop the drive shaft before jacking the engine up 2" to get the engine mounts in.
Back to my original question. I talked to a guy today and he told me it sounded like a bent crank or worn out/bent pump shaft. He said the 3.9 cummins was known for bent crank shafts, said he had replaced 8-9 of them. After talking to him, I ran it some and really tried to see if I could determine which it might be, if it had to be one of these problems. I would say somewhere in the pump. Is the 3.9 cummins know to have crank problems? Thanks Jackie
I've been working on Case 4-390's since they first appeared - near 30yrs - never seen or heard of crankshaft problems. Camshaft problems - yes, lobes disappear if tappets have never been done & oil changes are far & few between. You haven't said if you had checked fuel filters & engine mounts?
You haven't said if you had checked fuel filters & engine mounts? No I haven't. Filters look pretty new. The guy I bought it from said oil change and all filters had roughly 50 hours on them. Hopefully I will get to check some of those things tomorrow.
I was there when the first CDC's came out and still am there and have never seen a bent crank, and we have sold hundreds of machines with that engine, or a bent pump shaft for that matter. Pay a good Case service department to give you a professional opinoin. Mel
I want to know if the engine mounts are mush.. mine sure was and the thing sure runs quieter now with new rubbers. I had a fuel tank leaking and hydraulic fluid leaks which all kills rubber. But before I never noticed any particular RPM where the engine ran rough so you might have some other issue.
I haven't done anymore with it. The engine doesn't seem to move around when running. A mechanic is suppose to come by and look at it when he gets time.
Finally got around to checking the motor mounts today. What a shocker. The back two are completely shot and the front one is in pretty bad shape. With the engine running at 1200 rpm and using a bar to move the engine up and down, the bad vibration goes away. I would have never believed bad mounts would make an engine act and sound like this one was. Thanks to everyone that helped me out on this.
Always good to hear that a problem is resolved Jackie S! - All that engine mount talk on here wasn't a waste after all
The same info applies to the K's and super K's as well, Just did a SK a few weeks ago that the customer was sure had a bad balance problem, Just mounts, Glad to be of help as everyone on here is. Mel
This is what mine looked like, beside some new ones. The front one was the worst. My old ones had some fat looking foam pcs that I never did understand. I think the rear ones are easier to replace with the front one out, letting the engine jack up easier. The engine front has to jacked up a long way to get this one in. The muffler with hit the hood if you don't have it removed. You can see where I put 2 jacks on each side. You can also see that rubber grease that alrman invented. I bet you need to replace all 3. Case # D133316 $ 23.75 Ea
Thanks for the pics and info. I already got 3 new ones to put in it, but I had to give 26.75 ea at the dealer.