Hey guys, The last two times I went to start my 580K it was tough. Turning the ignition would just slowly turn the motor over. I assumed the battery was shot, put a charger on it overnight and it only got to 60%. I bought a new battery and installed it. Yes, my polarity is correct. Yes my cables are good. Same thing happens when I go to start it, only now the lug below the starter glows red, the starter gets super hot and starts smoking. What's the deal? Please don't say the starter is shot!!!
New problem. It the time it took me to post that, I went back to it and now the starter doesn't engage at all. I hear the click of I'm the guessing the solenoid when I turn the ignition, but the starter doesn't budge. Help!!
4 weak points on EVERY 580 I'v had my hands on>> 1 inj. pump 2 battery 3 cables 4 starter..
What lug is "glowing?" You likely have a ground fault. How do you know your cables are good? Did you perform voltage drop test? Does your starter have a dedicated ground cable/strap or is it grounded through the case? Either way, clean your grounds . Start at battery, move to frame, engine block, starter etc. When you're done, spray paint to prevent future corrosion. The fact that you stated a lug was glowing indicates you had serious amperage crawling through poor connections which may have shortened the life of your starter.
This one. I tapped on the relays and starter and now it's turning over, but still really hot
Slow down and don't wreck more. How long are you cranking for this to happen? The obvious answer is the starter is burned up, and if it wasn't the cause of the problem, it's burned up by now. Something big is wrong for this to happen. The glowing means to me that the battery is probably fine, but it wouldn't hurt to test the cranking voltage at the battery, and resting voltage. Then the cranking voltage at the starter. That will tell you where to look next. First thing I'd check is how hard the engine is to turn over by hand. It should turn a small fraction of a turn back and forth easily. It will get tight as one cylinder builds compression, but wait a few seconds and it will turn another small fraction the same direction. If you can't turn it by grabbing the fan and belt, something is wrong.
Ok, so you have a high torque reduction starter. You have 2 choices. Completely remove starter, Emery cloth the face of the starter and block. Wire brush the screws and place tooth washers under the bolt heads. This bites into both the bolt and starter to promote ground. Remove and polish hot feed to solenoid and alternator feed cable. Last thing is a personal preference thing. I like to add a 10 or 12 ga wire to the mounting screw of the starter from the chassis. This is a supplemental ground. You don't want it too big, you could have a ground fault electrical fire that way. Those starters are pretty reliable and don't require the amperage of the old direct drives. Let us know how it shakes out. Just saw Delmers reply. A little lag there.
Thanks guys, I didn't bring a voltmeter to the shop with me, I'll have to start buzzing it out next weekend. Thanks for the tips!
Hey guys, just wanted to let you know, the starter got put on the back burner do to fuel pump stuff. I pulled the starter and cleaned everything from the battery forward. The ring terminals were shot on the hot side of the circuit. So all new terminals. The grounds had so much grease and gunk caked on them I'm shocked the starter knew the key was on at all lol. The wires tested ok so I left them for the moment. They will all get replaced eventually. Cleaning up the grounds made a huge difference in the starters performance which was to be expected. Got the fuel issues resolved so now I'm not having to sit on the starter so long. Everything is great now, no more glowing!!
When are we doing the torque convertor?
????
Yeah, sounds like its worth while cleaning all the connections hot and ground and maybe replacing that cable end on the glowing terminal, it might be okay though but possibly damaged. Die grinder with a wire wheel works great, or those scotch disks, Starter might have some issue, a lot of amps are going to heat, have a starter shop give it a bench test.
I did replace the ends. I was ready to take it for a rebuild, but so far everything is working as it should. I think it was two issues: 1. I was dealing with fuel issues which made me sit on the starter longer than I knew was good, but did it anyway cause I'm human and a man and just give me a bigger hammer lol. 2. Every connection between the battery and starter was crap.
Good deal then! Had a friend bring an RV slow starting, seems not charging, charged batteries and found 14 bad connections, couple hours of cleaning every terminal and connection to the starter and alternator, seems it was a bad alternator to begin with but now all the connections are pristine!
Wow! 14!!! That's crazy!
Every junction was corroded and all but one ground connection was dodgy. Prev owner replaced a few sets of batts. The alt must have been broken for years, the two hour drive from home to camp and back wasnt enough to use up the power before it was plugged into shore power again
I think what vetech was getting to, the starter was searching for ground, its gonna find it where it can. Prolonged 'crank' with poor ground/cable/lug has resulted in all kinds of crazy stuff. Welded u-joints come to mind. Had a power steering hose light up and start a truck on fire. I've also seen welded pilot bearings. Electricity is wild ****.
Just joined the forum and was browsing through some posts: I've had an intermittent starting issue for a while, figured it was a ground somewhere. I'd keep checking all the grounds associated with the starter and could find anything loose. Thanks, I bet this fixes my problem.
WElcome to HEF, KenO !
Welcome KenO! Clean everything between the battery and starter, replace terminal ends. If that doesn't help the starter may need to be rebuilt.
Now yer learning
Lol, I knew it before I've just been so stressed on this repair I was forgetting the basics!
Thanks guy's, lots a great info out here! Well that didn't work, LOL Looks like I'm starting at the battery and working my way back, Thanks Ed1. Don't think it's the starter, if it doesn't start with the key I jump it at the starter and it fires up every time. Couldn't think of a better way to spend Fathers Day, working on my 580B!
Lol, I'm glad yesterday was my last day in the shop! Tuesday I'm hauling her to my land and start the mission to dig 50,000,000 stumps!! Happy Father's Day KenO
Well, hows about you start a new thread with pics so we can play with your machine next. Maybe we'll remember something we forgot, maybe we'll come up with something new. Never know till you try. Come on lets have fun with your machine.
I'll get some pics up tomorrow, Man I hate to be the new guy!!!! It's definitely a project (but aren't they all). I'm guessing it's the key switch on the starter issue, I'm up in the mountains in AZ and have all kinds of critters that love eating wires. Probably just put a push button start on it and be done with it. I do have an issue with what sounds like something binding, my first thought was the brakes, it grabs and then lets go intermittently in either direction. I haven't used it in awhile so I was changing fluids and filters and moved to power wash it and heard this going on!?!? The brakes have never really worked since I got 10 yrs ago but it does seem like there's a lot less play in brake pedals then before. Thoughts on this one? Oops, I'll start a thread tomorrow with the binding issue.
When I rebuilt my 64 Ford 2000 I did away with the key. Off/on switch and push button. Simple, never regretted getting rid of the key and the neutral safety also.
Yep I agree that will be the way to go. Good luck with your stumps, that'll be fun tearing stuff up!
Lol, I wish! It'll be everything but fun!