Hi guys, I am pretty new to trucks, my first truck is a 1980 Louisville LNT8000 tipper. Today I put my first full load in it and it really struggled up some steep hills. I have a 13spd RR and this was happening in both low range and deep reduction. I'd say the load was about 10 cubes. maybe more It sounded like a loud vibrating growling noise punctuated but high pitched noises. I'm not really sure where it was coming from but I could kind of feel it through the floor. Could it be overloading the gearbox? My gearbox has trouble changing from high range to low range, but I can't afford to fix it right now so I just don't change down unless i'm almost standing still. I pulled and changed to low before going up this hill. There is no way it would go up in high with that load on it. Later this afternoon I took about 6 cubes up a much larger hill in high range and there didn't seem to be any strange noise or problems. My truck did get up to 93 centigrade on the way up the hill on a 29 degree day so I'm bit worried about where it will get to on a 40 degree day but thats another story. Have I just overloaded it because of my inexperience? Or is there some other problem with my gearbox? Cheers, nick
When you say 6 wheel, do you mean a single axle truck? If so, 8 tonnes is about all any single is meant to haul, although ten tonnes is usually manageable. I can think of anything short of coal that would weight less than a tonne a cube, most dirt is 1.5 tonnes a cube or more,so I'd venture to say you were overloaded by a fair margin.
I think you'll have to get a mechanic to ride with you to diagnose that noise. It doesn't seem likely that we will be able to help over the Internet. 93C = 199F which is barely even starting to climb I would say. The book used to say that your 3208 max temp is 210F (99C) but then they revised it upward to 220F (104C). To be conservative I would still consider the redline to be 99C but I would not have a problem with actually running it right at 99C, either. Just keep an eye on it and if it starts to climb past that point, then decrease the amount of throttle to get you over the hill. Then go digging for problems. If it never reaches that point then you haven't spent any money chasing a nonexistent problem. The higher the radiator temperature goes the faster it rejects heat to the outside air, so it is self regulating to some extent. I would suspect your fan clutch (the finned thingy in the center of the fan) if there is an overheating problem, assuming the cooling system is clean and full.
There are actually 10 wheels, is got a double axle at the back. It is licensed for about 14 tonnes. the dirt I was hauling was a sand/clay mix, mostly dry but some of it was a bit damp. So could be overloaded eh? Thanks Birken, Sorry about the description but it doesn't sound good. I'll try to get someone who knows to ride with me. I don't think it is overheating, its just the highest its been since I got my new temp gauge. Cheers
In Australia, the American system of referring to the number of individual wheels isn't used. A "6-wheeler" in U.S. terminology is a two-axle, single drive axle truck - in Australia, a "6-wheeler" is a three axle, dual or tandem drive axle truck. We call a four axle (twin steer, tandem drive) an "8-wheeler". We make no distinction between dual and single wheels - a wheel is a wheel, single or dual. Nick , 10 cu metres is a full load for a tandem drive LNT8000, and that little Cat V8 will be working hard on hills, particularly if she's well worn. If you say you have noises coming from under the floor, you need to examine the driveshafts closely for wear in the slip-yoke splines, universal joints, any centre bearing mountings - or even damage to the tailshafts. You need to examine the yokes on the gearbox and the diffs to see if they are tight. Often the nuts on the yokes come loose. The temperature sounds a little high for this time of year, but the guage may be faulty too. Check the engine water outlet/thermostat area with an infra-red heat gun to see if you get the same reading as the temperature guage.
Yair . . . And theres not many "eighteen wheelers" running in Australia . . . two axle trailers are pretty much a rarity in my parts. Cheers.
Thanks Oz Dozer I will check it out and report back
Nick, don't forget to check out your transmission and engine mountings for torn rubber in the mountings, or loose bolts where they're attached to the engine and transmission. Also, check that all the flywheel housing bolts are tight. It's not the first time flywheel housing bolts have come loose, and created a lot of grief.
I know this is obvious but are you downshifting while your going up the hills? To me it sounds like you are lugging the motor down to the point where she is gonna rumble and rattle a bit and the high pitch screeming is the turbo spooled up the entire time going up the hill, it's saying "Let go!!!".... LOL!!!!
Oh ok, your probably not overloaded if its a 3 axle truck! Oz has some good points, and Soodude is thinking the same as me before I thought it was a single axle. 3208s aren't luggers and when overly lugged most engines will rattle and strain and make strange noises. Maybe try keeping the revs up a bit and see what it does.
Ben, I don't think lugging the 3208 right down would produce a - "loud vibrating growling noise, punctuated by high pitched noises". I think Nick could have some serious driveline issues to address. The 3208 doesn't like pulling the revs down too far, they just die when the revs drop to below about 1600-1700RPM. You have to keep the revs up on them to get anywhere.
I know you know what you are talking about, but around here even when it gets down into the 60s or less, any truck I drive will be running right at the fan set point when pulling a big hill even at high speed. Low speed makes it run even hotter. We're talking about 220+ on modern trucks just a minute or two into the pull.
Birken, we're talking about a 1980 Louisville with a 3208. This is a far cry from a modern truck engine. Yes, since the introduction of strict emission controls from the late 1980's, operating temperatures of engines have been steadily increased. The standard operating temperature of the 3208's of 1980 was 180 degrees F (82 deg C). They could run to 210-215 deg F (99-101 deg C) on a hot day, but that was undesirable for long periods. Current emission-control engines run very hot - and can do so, because they have been engineered to run far hotter than the older engines. They have gaskets and seals designed for high temperatures, and improved ring strength to resist ring collapse caused by heat. The older engines don't like excessive operating temperatures - seals and gaskets start leaking and rings collapse with extended overheating, creating excessive oil consumption and ring blow-by problems.
Agreed mostly with what you have said, but as far as I can see on the lame temperature gauges, most engines even up to today still have their thermostats set at 180. But what I was saying is that on a pull or most any operation other than downhill, the thermostat(s) remains wide open and the temperature is regulated either by the size of radiator and heat rejection rate to the air, or failing that, by the fan setpoint. This Louisville has a thermostatic fan clutch. (Saw on another thread). I have never driven anything with a thermostatic clutch and a temperature gauge that had numbers on it, so I don't now how close they regulate. But it sounds like he is pulling heavy loads slow on a warm day so it's all about the fan clutch at this point. If it was an air clutch it would be on about 50% of the time. One problem is his exhaust is so loud that he can't hear if the fan is coming on and off or not.
I'm sticking with Ben on this. The two key things in Nick's post was "His first FULL load" and "his inexperience". I don't think he's keeping the revs up to where they should be. Some guys when they start off are absolutely afraid of downshifting while going uphill, too many what ifs that run through there head. "What if a miss a shift", "What if I have to stop, How will I get started", so they try to eliminate the what if by keeping the same gear and praying the motor has enough to pull him up the grade. The 3208 doesn't just die either, it lugs right down just like a L10 cummins motor. Don't be affraid Nick, downshift that mother and put the pedal to the kitchen!!!!
Hmmnh, over here we don't really use the term 'wheeler' when referring to a axle combination on a truck, usually it's single axle (one set of drive wheels), bogie drive (two drive axles but may include a lazy axle), tri drive (three drive axles), this terminology is also used for trailers. Most common set up is bogie drive prime mover with tri axle trailer. So Nick has a bogie drive tipper in our language. Far as the original question goes, those sort of noises could be related to a failing bearing, although usually high pitched means the bearing is dry and rumbling means the bearing is starting to disintegrate.
Ok looks like I missed a lot on here. I am downshifting...but I can only get down to the lowest gear in high range because of my gearbox problems. Having said that on the second load I did stop near the bottom of the hill and tried going up in low range but the problem sounded the same. The third load I approached from a different direction and avoided the hill altogether, no problem. The fourth load I used the same route as the third but looped back and went up the last 50m of hill in deep reduction. The noise was still happening on the fourth load. After that I stuck to the route without hills but this isn't really a solution to my problem. I live in hilly terrain and need to be able to go up hills. I haven't found any issues with the yokes or driveshaft. I did however find four snapped engine mounting bolts. I jacked the motor up to check and they look to be snapped off inside. I found one loose engine mount bolt on the other side. I've run a chain under the motor between the chassis rails to "catch it" if it falls. Could this be my problem? how would I go about fixing this without taking the whole thing apart? Again my inexperience is an issue here. It doedn't look to me like I can get a drill in there to get to those holes....
Uh-oh, that's nasty - and I'd say those broken bolts are at least part of your problems. The engine is possibly moving around in the engine bay under heavy load, and rotating parts such as the fan are coming into contact with areas close to the fan, such as the fan shroud (if one is fitted). What you need to do is unbolt the engine mountings, and carefully jack up the engine, using a floor jack for stability, with some pieces of timber to protect the crankcase from damage. Once you have the engine lifted 50-75mm, you should be able to remove the mounting brackets so you can access the broken bolts. A right-angle air drill, is a real handy tool to have in this case - but not everyone has one, of course. With a right-angle drill, you can then drill the broken bolts and insert a screw extractor to remove them. If you think this repair is beyond you, I can put you onto a good old Italian truck mechanic who can do the repair for you. His workshop is just off Tonkin Hwy in Bayswater, so I'm not sure if that's too far away for you.
Ooooh nasty, I would not be worried about the motor falling, you're problem might be the motor twisting, especially if those bolts are missing on the torque side, which is the passenger side. Far as fixing goes, not sure without looking at the situation.
Ahh you beat me to by 5 minutes. You make it sound so easy, a touch of the drill, whack in an extractor and jobs done. I would think those bolts are high tensile, might even be 10.9's, so you'd need a fair bit of pressure on that drill.
They are missing on the driver side so hopefully thats a good thing. OzDozer, thanks for the info. I think I could probably do it but I would be slow and stressed that I might mess it up. I live in the hills near Mundaring so Bayswater is actually pretty close. Perhaps I will go and see him and get a quote. Please send me his details if you can. do any of you guys own skidsteers? I posted a problem in the skidsteer forum the same day as I posted this problem but haven't had any replies. You guys are so helpfull perhaps you could take a look for me HeavyEquipmentForums Thanks again! nick
Hendrik - Yep, a right pr*ck of a job, the one you draw the short straw for. However, I've pulled out hundreds and hundreds of similar busted bolts in earthmoving equipment for years, with usually 99% success rate. Yes, they would be HT bolts, at least Grade 5 imperial (10.9 ISO), or possibly even Grade 8 imperial, which is 12.9 grade ISO. You use good quality cobalt drills and have plenty on hand. The other technique, which works if the bolts are flush or protruding slightly, is to weld a nut on them and screw them out. A 150-170 amp MIG with a small diameter wire, or a handyman arc welder with 2.5mm (12 ga) rods are necessary tools, then.
Nick, the blokes name is Joe Versace (Ver-saaa-chee), and his address is Unit 11, 26 Wotton St, Bayswater, alongside the GreenDog Truck depot. Here's his full contact details; http://www.yellowpages.com.au/wa/ba...-mechanical-contractors-12996243-listing.html He doesn't rush to answer the phone, so keep trying until he does. He doesn't do as much truck repair as he used to, he reckons it's too hard on him, so he prefers cars nowadays. However, he'll still take on some truck repairs. Don't be put off by the scrappy-looking old shed, or the junk lying around the adjoining units, Joe is one of the nicest blokes you could meet, real old-school - and what he doesn't know about trucks, you couldn't write on a grain of rice. He's 67 or 68, and doesn't work full time any more - he retired, then came back to work. There's not many men with his abilities left. If he can't do the job, he'll put you onto someone who can.
He sounds awesome, thanks mate, very much appreciated.
a real nice way also Oz is get left handed drills, most of the time they'll catch and twist them out for ya....
Did you sort it out mate?
Not yet, I'm booked in to see Joe next Tuesday so I'll have more to say then. Cheers
Ok I'm back with an update. Joe wasn't really into it because he's has a bad back and that it totally understandable. He recommended someone else who recommended someone else who gave me a quote upwards of 3000 to do it properly. He wanted to take the gearbox out and the bell housing and it was sounding very expensive. he said it could be up around 30hrs labour @ $100/hr odd. In the end a friend of mine who works at a truck body builder arranged with his boss so we could use his workshop on the weekend. We released all 3 engine mounts and then lifted the drivers side of the engine with a crane so it rolled a bit and gave us easier access to the holes. turns out one bolt was still in, two were snapped off and one was missing in action. We put grade 8 high tensile bolts in with hardened spring washers instead of using loctite. In case it happens again loctite would make it hard to get them out. The one that had fallen out seemed like the thread was stripped inside but we used a longer bolt and it seemed to bite. All up it took 3 hours. It drives very differently now so I'll see what happens and keep an eye on them. Thanks for all your help guys.
Have ALOT of experience with that situation. You need locktite on those bolts! You will never keep them tight if you dont put new rubbers in the motor mounts. Fought this for years on the same truck, couldnt keep the bolts toght no matter what we tried. Had an old boy told us to put mounts in and it solved the problem. 3 years and still tight! Remember that housing is aluminum.
Damn there I was thinking I had it all sorted. So new rubbers are the key. I will try and source some new rubbers. Can you explain how to install them? its my first truck so I'm learning a lot as I go. Ho do I get the old ones off? are they glued on or do they just sit there? cheers
Using loctite is not a drama, loctite and heat are not friends.
The rubbers just sit there. Easy swap. Get all 3, both sides and the front.
Ah I didn't know that...wouldn't it come loose when the engine is hot though? how hot are we talking here Hendrik? electric heat gun or blow torch? That's the best news I've heard all day 51kw, thank you!
A quick search would indicate that temps above 150-160 C would do the trick. http://au.iloctite.com/en/red-loctite-threadlocker http://www.loctite.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/henkel_aue/hs.xsl/threadlocking-4043.htm So it may not work on applications like exhaust manifold studs but should be no dramas on engine mount bolts. It is advised to get some primer to clean the threads.