these are some of my picks that i got from our job. Check out my rock and pipe cart i built this spring it works great ! let me know what u think
more picks to come after this
brush cutting the rite of way !
Nice. Where is this at?
May be just me,but over here in uk i'd rather of had that spoil heap in the first pic a bit further away from the trench lip with those guys working below?
Yeah i was thinking that in the USA that whole situation would not be allowed. would require extensive shoring or the walls to be benched out at 1:1.
no way first picture no way would i be down there looking up at that machine
personally, with NO one in the excavation...i would NEVER drive parallel to an excavation like that. you might want to ask to have those pics removed...i don't say this to be a smart ass...i think i would take those pics down.
Lets get the story behind them. I think any photo can be used as a learning tool. I have never worked in the country where these were taken, so i don't know anything about them.
i know what i see in the pic...an excavation of what appears to me...approx 10' -12' deep, men in the excavation with a 50k lb. excavator sitting parallel to the excavation about 2' away from the edge. he can do whatever he wants! i just made the comment that "i" personally...would never drive an excavator parallel to an excavation that close...workers or not in the excavation.
I don't know what the rules are in Alberta but they won't allow that with men in the trench here. The trenches are a bit too steep for men to be in them, and having an excavator sitting 2 ft from the edge of the very steep slope looks risky to me.
the bucket is designed at a 1-1 slope and if it gets wet we step them 2nd of all OH&S was out an was very impressed with the safety on the site. The spoil pile toe only has to be 1m away from top of slope and the strait wall on the bottom of the ditch cannot exceed 0.5M high before being cut back. The hoe and the kart have a better weight distribution than running our 744 with a spoon that close to the trench. The clay is almost a shale and i have never had a problem being that close in ideal conditions, however when it gets wet i mounted a camera on the stick to move the hoe back away from the cut and still allow the oporator to rock the pipe. The photos were taken on my black berry so it may make the first one look bad although it doesnt look clean on the spill side. The second picture looks alot cleaner and safer tho
The booming metropolis of Vulcan alberta !
maybe with the shadows there are some optical illusions.
Dirt looks pretty hard, shiny in places. Was that pretty hard digging? muzy
When i looked at the picks i could see All of your concerns but Those guys are literaly my family and i would never ever cut a ditch that i would never go into and work all day. The digging is tough but this is the first job we had with our 450D and it is a great machine and the dirt doesnt seem to slow it down i would say out of 10 it would be a 7 10 being hard sand stone. Were averaging 400M a day back filled and compacted, every 150m installing a strait through manhole, only when we are 4m deep or less. Is it me or are these some excelent numbers for a 15 man crew, based on 11.5hrs a day
You sure that ditch is 1:1? like 45degrees? a 10 food deep ditch would have to be 20 feet wide at the top. (3meter deep would be 6 meeters wide). Cause each side would have to be 1:1. that ditch looks 2:1 like its 10 feet deep and 10 feet wide. (5 feet on each side)
OSHA calls for 1 1/2 to 1. http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10776 (I looked it up, cause 1:1 didn't sound right...) BTW, I have to respect anybody that posts pics of their job, because I'd bet we could all find some violation in any job pic posted by anybody. :notworthy
Depending on the soil classification. Class A soil - .75:1 max slope Class B soil - 1:1 max slope Class C soil - 1.5:1 max slope http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10932 A minimum of two soil tests are required to determine the class - 1 manual and 1 visual. Any excavation over 20' deep requires an Engineers design. http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10931 From the description of the soil in the pictures, the soil is probably a Class B which would allow 1:1 sloping. I am currently taking an online 30 hour OSHA course.
Your OSHA regulations don't stand in Canada. Those regulations are looked after at the Provincial level (kinda like a State level). I think that Blackberry camera doesn't do the mainline operator any justice on how his work really is. For those interested here's a pdf file about excavating and tunnelling for the Province of Alberta by they're OHS organization. http://employment.alberta.ca/documents/WHS/WHS-LEG_ohsc_2009.pdf Just go to part 32 so you can see before ranting about the regulations in the State's and the U.K. And maybe if "Deeretime" has a proper digital camera he wouldn't mind taking some proper photographs I'd like to see more pictures and what you guys are doing for backfill.
From the section I read, you are right on. Quoted from link above: "450(1) Before a worker begins working in an excavation that is more than 1.5 metres deep and closer to the wall or bank than the depth of the excavation, an employer must ensure that the worker is protected from cave‐ins or sliding or rolling materials by (a) cutting back the walls of the excavation to reduce the height of the remaining vertical walls, if any, to no more than 1.5 metres for “hard and compact soil” and “likely to crack or crumble soil”, (b) installing temporary protective structures, or (c) using a combination of the methods in clauses (a) and (b). 450(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if a trench is constructed in solid rock throughout the entire trench. Cutting back walls 451 If the walls of an excavation are cut back, an employer must ensure that (a) if the soil is classified as “hard and compact soil”, the walls are sloped to within 1.5 metres of the bottom of the excavation at an angle of not less than 30 degrees measured from the vertical, (b) if the soil is classified as “likely to crack or crumble soil” the walls are sloped to within 1.5 metres of the bottom of the excavation at an angle of not less than 45 degrees measured from the vertical, and (c) if the soil is classified as “soft, sandy or loose soil” the walls are sloped from the bottom of the excavation at an angle of not less than 45 degrees measured from the vertical. Loose materials 452 An employer must ensure that loose materials are scaled and trimmed from the sides of an excavation if workers may be on or near the sides. Spoil piles 453 An employer must ensure that a spoil pile is piled so that (a) the leading edge of the pile is at least 1 metre away from the edge of the excavation, (b) the slope of a spoil pile adjacent to the excavation is at an angle of not more than 45 degrees from the horizontal, and (c) loose materials are scaled and trimmed from the spoil pile." end quote Looks like the 30* from vertical is fine in that soil, per the local rules. By the way, I think it looks fine, for stable soil. If it had any sign of weakness, it would be a different story. 400 Meters per day sounds like you are moving right along. Ive been on crews doing 1,000 to 1,500 ft in similar conditions, and with similar sized crews. Best daily record was something like 2,200 ft laying 36" or maybe 42" RCP at 15 to 18 ft deep, as I recall. Not many days with conditions that allow that though. 1,000 ft is a good benchmark. Anything more is bonus time.
Yeah I just get a little fed up when somebody posts something for they're region as if it's the be all that ends all solution or regulation things vary from country to country people.
ah I just went to calgary monday. If I knew I would of came back thru Vulcan and take a look. Hey does that 160 have a hoepac on it? If so what size?
does v-ing out the ditch realy make things go faster then useing ditch boxes? We only V out if the trench is short and shalow. Not worth the osha fine anyother way.
Deeretime your post is a good reminder that things aren't the same everywhere for better or worst. It is a great way for all of us to learn better ways to do things, thanks for your pics. I haven't ever been around a v ditching bucket, does the dirt stick in the bucket with higher moisture levels? Do the banks cave in very often, what is the usual width of the bucket used for utilities at the bottom?
It gives them more room to work in than a cage or other kinds of shoring, plus there is no repositioning of an awkward cage so yeah it is much faster.
with big machines it is way faster to V the ditch if i was digging with a 200 a box would be faster not to mention its wide open and draging a box is a pain aswell as working in them, i always hit my head or skin my knees. I got more picks of some wetter stuff that we cut back alot more. As I had mentiond before OH&S has checked out a couple of our sites over the years and their ruels are based on osha. The only thing the inspector wanted us to do was cut more escape stairs into the dich or make us carry a ladder. I have found that trenching is common sense and u should always be aware of your material and what it will withstand.
The 160 has a wbm 200 series hitch and a NPK c8 plate tamper. Its ok but because of the big hitch and the long stick the machine is alot less ballanced when it gets out there.
Yeah, I probably shouldn't have been so lazy, and typed out the words, " As a basis for comparison , OSHA says..." I feel so bad for having annoyed you. Yeah, I definitely shouldn't have been so lazy as to grab the first reg that seemed to apply and quoting it, without thinking it through further. I took that course too (although it was crammed into a whole lot less than 30 hours.) I should've known better. ointhead CM, the next Indian spammer is mine to ban. :ban I need to do something power-trippy to rebuild my shattered self esteem... :Banghead
more picks
picks
Yeahh, me too. We've been getting some from Vietnam as well, if you would like more information just PM me... Deeretime, keep up the good work. Your pipe and gravel buggy looks like a neat contraption.:thumbsup
Is that a sheepsfoot on the ripper frame? Never seen a tilt bucket use for backfilling pipe, but underground work is not my purview.
DT, you didn't waste any time putting that 450 right to work. Its funny that after all this time the old deere hoes look funny with all that yeller!!
Yeah that is a great looking rig.
Yes that is my custom built sheeps foot rig that goes on the ripper. its a prototype to see what kind of compaction i can get by just statick rolling the first lift around the pipe when it gets cut out , instead of plate tamping it then rolling it with a roller. All that is required for compaction is 95% and with 3 passes with the 655 and my roller we are achiveing that, so i jst saved running 2 machines. This winter i plan to build a vibrating one that will get me up to 98%. for the jobs that require higher compaction.
Thanks guys, i have never realy seen one any where esle before so i had an idea of what was needed and i think that i will finnish and paint the "flinstone wagon" this winter. Is there any thing on the market simmilar to this other than the felco conveyor?
I have seen a lot of home made bedding boxes, but yours is the first with a pipe carier built in. Here is a link to the best built one I have seen on the market. Complete with steel wheels for easier dragging. http://steelunlimited.com/suimfg/custom.html A lot of pipeliners around here use them. Either manufactured ones or home made units. I like the compactor idea. Way to innovate.
Mine has steel wheels and a pintle hich that attaches to the u/c There 16" steel pipe thats why i call it the flinstone wagon cause thats what the wheels look like! Thanks for the link
I couldn't see the wheels on yours. Must have been the angle of the picture or something. I also didn't realize it was hitched up to the hoe. I was wondering how you drug it, as it looked a little light for the usual method of grabbing the top spreader bar and dragging it like a shoring box. How are they stabbing the pipe? Barring it in, or do you have a tool for that?
I guess they are using the 350 to push the pipe together?
nope we just use bars it has been going realy easily, Ipex had some troubles with their gaskets on the first couple lifts of pipe but they changed them out for us
Funny you should mention the Ipex gaskets, we had a couple bad lifts as well and had to dig up 1000 ft of pipe!
love the sheeps foot. let use know how the vib model works. got a 555 that would be great for that.
Yea ipex reps flew in over nite with a bunch of new gaskets and personaly changed them out in their suits and ties, but its hard to find them all because the pipe is all bundled togeather and u may only find 2 in a bundle or none at all. We had 2 leaks so far from gaskets and ipex made up for it by giving out alot of hats,shirts and jackets so we wernt so upset anymore.
Deeretime, asking others on this forum "what they think" of your pictures is a loaded question (ha ha). I think your pics are really good. I put pipe in the ground for a living & it looks like you have a good set up. Neat looking work & nice looking equipment. I like the rock tub with the pipe rack on it. Thanks for sharing the pics.
I gotta the question.....How the hell do you guys get away with that?....the sides of the trench?...and the 360 parked there?....
I think that there set up is safe. I have worked in much worse conditions than that with out a stupid box. And for your stone boat that is a great idea I now plan on doing that with ours.
Read the first part of the thread and stick to ur union job bud!
That sounds great the only thing i would change is that i would use a heavy trailer pintle hitch to attach the two of them. I'm realy glad that i used the steel pipe for rollers and i havent seen any wear in the roller system and were at 6085M along now. Good luck if u have any questions send me a pm and i will see if i can help
great pics, thanks for sharing
Now we all know the position that HEF has on Union vs Non union - NEUTRAL!! Any further comments that serve no purpose other than fanning the flames of the Union/Non Union debate will be dealt with accordingly!
i should probably had never commented on in what my opinion was an unsafe situation. in his regulating jurisdiction, apparently all that's there is a standard and accepted practice. i guess i don't care what OSHA or the canadian derivitive is....i'd still NO way run an excavator parallel to an excavation, let alone have men underneath me.
union plantman ,like me is from the uk ,and we don't have a union system like yours so that comment means nothing to us and i totaly agree with the above by CM1995 frankly if you do not want comments on your pictures don't post them you can tell me all day long how save the trench is but i still would not be that guy in the bottom of the trench looking up at that machine ,end off
its not that I don't likee criticism about my excavation I was anoyed that some people didn't. read the other posts explaining that my governing sanctions were on sitealready. as for the union coment it was inapropriate and I apologise. I wish there were more people that would post some of there excavation picks because some are very impressive.
I think the ditch may be perfectly fine... as in the back fill photo it appears the ditch is 3x the size of the dozer... as for photos.... angle...distance and height is everything... as for the U or non U.... well It really doesn't make a difference.... I've dug lots of ditch for union workers... Been asked to dig again for union workers... ran cranes... they get their check .....i get my check... that's all that really matters... well also and that everyone went home safe..
Awesome pics, and procedure. I have been many places in this forum from A-Z and thats the first V bucket I've seen. "Respectfully" I too saw reasonable concern with the placement of excavator and men below, the land in my area would not tolerate this so gracefully.