I recently purchased a 74 Ford L9000 Tri-axle Dump Truck. So Far the truck was $3500 and the tow was $700 so I have $4200 as the truck sits. The problem is the detroit 8v71 motor is dripping out the oil breather tube at about a half quart per hour. The was just at an idle as the truck smokes to much to drive onthe street with a load. Anyone know what I should look for onthe motor? I guess I am going to take the valve covers off and see if some return ports are all gummed up. I know these detroits like a lil but this on seems excessive. The truck had been sitting for a year and before it was parked the owner told me he had a exhaust manifold bolt snap off and the smoke started after the guy repair that. He drilled and tapped the head. I am just looking to do some local hauling around town with this so i am not trying to spend alot of money and thoughts would be appreciated.
Here are some pics
Is the smoke white ? Does it have a sweet smell ? Things that it would indicate cooling leaking by in the head. Is there any blowby I am not a deisel mechanic but just going by past experiance with them.
I think its burning antifreeze very little smoke at idle looks like just a cold motor then when you step on it the smoke just bellows out and doesnt really look like normal white smoke. The anti freeze was also dripping out the radiator overflow for some reason too. The previous owner said he had a exhaust manifold bolt drilled out and the guy went to far maybe into the water jacket? Anyone know a way i can test this.
does the smoke go away after it is up to temp? As far as the oil is concerned , Just keep adding to it. Never new a detroit not to leak.
Ya dripping is common issue with Jimmy's. I think it gets worse when it's idled for extented periods(as you see).
Is a half a quart over an hour of idling bad? And it leaked out the same amount of antifreeze from the overflow tank.The truck hasnt been driven on the road in over a year. The previous owner had a problem with the exhaust manifold stud and parked it. The truck has been started twice in the last year and only let to idle. I have to go get a set of batteries and get her running and all warmed up.
Engine Test Put a radiator pressure tester on the cap of the radiator, and start the engine. Check the pressure. It should not be over 13 to 15 LBS. If it is, there are remedys that involve head removal. There is a gasket called a figure 8 gasker that seals the water jacket and oil galley from the block deck to the head. These are prone to failure, and since the engine sat for a year, they may be the problem, and oil and water are ran next to each other through these gaskets. Also you might want to have the head magnafluxed at a rebuild center to check the condition of the head! Either way the head has got to come off, and if you don't know haow to set the rack, take it in and let the pro's do it! Also Check the air box vent to see if there is oil/coolant leaking into the air box! Don't forget that 8v71 is a 2 stroke, and is naturally asperated with the blower! Having a 2 stroke Detroit will make your local Detroit Diesel store very happy! You'll be seeing them once a year with a major problem! Sorry I don't have good news other that be glad that you don't have the 3208 Cat yellow boat anchor!
I believe the air box is where it is all coming from. Its coming from two flexible tubes on either side of the motor on the back side. On one side some white smoke that looks like coolant which isnt that bad and the other side is dripping oil like crazy. Which i am guessing the leaking air box is causing the exhaust to smoke to. I am guessing that i am burning this fluid as it mixes with the air. Which would explain the smoke i am having. So the question what causes a leaking airbox
Sounds like most of the oil MAY be coming into the blower through the seals at the ends of the blower housing. That is a common problem, and an easy fix. Check out the water more though
The water I think may be because the exhaust manifold stud was drilled out to far but I would think that would just drip into the exhaust not into the air box. How would I test to see if it is the blower seals that are leaking?
I don't think a lot of new mechanics know or want to work on old two cycle Detroit's now a days. I'd get on ebay and get yourself a 8v71 service manual. You'll need it if your going to keep that Detroit.
Pull the air intake from the blwer and look inside. If there is oil inside, chances are thats where it came from
Don't be too unkind in remarks about 8V-71 jimmys. They were a fine motor in their day. Could be blower seals but excessive idling can also shine the bores. They are easy to work on and used to be fairly cheap to repair. (In Australia anyway!!) First step would be check blower seals, then pull the heads, look for gasket leakage then test heads and inspect bores. If bores are shot, drop the sump and start a rebuild from bottom-up. Good luck.......C ya........Ray
Those two tubes hanging down are the air box drains, and are there to drip oil. I believe at idle the engine does'nt develop enough vacuum and will leak oil into the airbox, or so that is how it was explained to me. Detroit Deisel makes a kit that catches the oil, and then you can drain it out. Basically a cylinder that the tubes drain into, and a petcock to drain the oil. It is very pricy for what it is. If you go to Yahoo, there is a group for detroit deisel enthusiasts that can tell you anything you can need to know about them.
Ray No dissing the DD's here, I have had about 40 or 50 of them. They were fine in their day, but most are too long in the tooth to be very reliable anymore in hard daily use. Even with quality rebuilds, metal fatigue strains them. Still a good engine, but its days are numbered now with the emmissions regs, especially here in CA. I just took a 6-71 out of my 6X6 water truck for a M-11 Cummins for that reason.
How Hard would it be to swap in a Big Cam Cummins?I think I may be able to get one rebuilt for $1,000. Does the Tranny Match Up? I know I would a new exhaust system but that shouldnt be to hard.
The motor is a 400 Big Cam Cummins it is a 1986 block that has a fresh rebuild and the guy has all the receipts. I am thinking its way easier to just swap in a new motor for 1,000 then to try and fix the detroit. I just dont want to spin my wheels. Where would i get motor mounts? The tranny hopefully will bolt up cause I have a new tranny and clutch. Then other then that its just fuel line, air line and wire up starter.
Engine Swap Look for a junker somewhere that has the big cam 400! I'm sure there are salvage yards around that will have all the parts you'll need! Trans should be universal unlike the automotive industry. Frame mounts might be the same also. The thing is going to be the radator plumbing. The in and out for the rad in the right place so you don't have a plumbers nightmare just getting the hoses to mate! Am I glad their 1997 LTL9000 was ordered with a 3406E Cat @ 475 HP! Last of the classy looking LTL long hood!
Try to make a bid on all the parts you need for the change! Say you need mounts, and rad. Price them new and offer them 30% of their retail value. Have them throw in the exhaust, and also check the passenger side steering cylinder! The end caps are prone to blow off when in a tight turn! Add parts that you know you won't need, and just leave them there! I'm talking a $50.00 value!
If it was me I'd be looking at the Cummins swap. You'll have more power, the 8V71 is 318 hp vs. 400 for the Cummins, and the Cummins will be quieter and burn less fuel. In the long run it will cost less even if you have to spend a few bucks more to convert. The Cummins is also more reliable that the Detroit.
Ok I just talked to the guy with the cummins engine. He said the motor was installed in a truck for 5,000 mi which was over 4 months. The oil pan is cracked I guess which shouldnt be a big deal. The motor has been sitting outside under a tarp for over a year. He also has the raditor for it. Do you think the motor would still be good after sitting a year? What would go bad after sitting? He is asking $1400 but i think around $700 is more reasonable. I suppose as long as the motor runs it will be better the the detroit I have now. It smokes so bad I cant even drive it. Where would I find motor mounts at? I am running out of money so I am looking to do this as economical as possible.
Well truck engines are taken out and left sitting for years like at seigals and ralphs which i think ar no longer in bussiness 2 places where I think you could find used mounts. might try camerota . as far as how good the engine will be probably fine but Just speculating where ever it stoped and if it was left to high moister with no lubrication for a long time that rust might build up.But if that was the case in all the engined out then no one would buy them.
That engine is a steal at that price. A used running Cummins goes for $6000 and more. The pan is an expensive item, but if it isn't cracked too bad it should be able to be welded for much less than the cost of a replacement. I'd be a little concerned on what caused the crack. I wouldn't be too concerned about it's having sat for a while. As long as it wasn't out in open weather it should be fine. I had a dump truck with an old Cummins in it that I used just casually, and after it had been sitting unused over 2 years, I dragged it with my machine and had it running within 50 feet.
some thing else to consider V8 dd is short cummins cat 60 series dd are long. fords with dd have no or small dog house cumm/cat/60ser. need big dog house, you have to redrill frame for motor mounts, change driveshafts [shorter] it can be done but it's not easy or cheap i have done many over the years, motor swaps glider builds ect. ect. SLOPPY air box drains could also be broken rings scored liners[metal chips from drilling] DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST before you start wasting money good luck. ONE more thing if you didn't know DETROIT DIESEL is the most effecent way to turn fuel into noise!!!
Oh So that means new tranny mounts too huh. If it was just drilling the frame for two motor mounts no big deal but i dont want to re-engineer the truck. Maybe I should just rebuild the motor I have and juice it up a lil bit.
if your looking for more power 8v71 dosen't do real good getting "turned up" it really shortens motor life. you might check on 8v92 dd its only about1.5" or 3.5"longer don't remember exactly but you might be able to just move front motor mount ahead ?? not sure I haven't done one in 10 or 15 years. you will have to measure and check it out. Radiator should clear I think it's easier to move front mount than rear mounts . 8v92 Ithink goes up to 450/465hp
I hear the top opening on a can of worms!! LOL It will be more work, but you will be happier in the long run putting the cummins in at that price. Even with the troubles mentioned. Resale value when you ever outgrow the old girl will definatley be better. I am much happier now with Late model M-11 I transplanted for my old DD
LOL I dont want a can of worms. I was looking to get it going good for the cheapest amount of money. So I guess I am going to see whats wrong with my motor. One side spews oil and the other side has steam from anitfreeze burning. I am going to see if the blower is leaking. The antifreeze I belive is from a stud leaking from when it was drill out the oil I am still unsure of. I need to get some batteries for it so I can move it across the yard. It currently has 4 1000 CCA batterys. Is this overkill? Can 2 1000 CCA start it? Maybe next year after I make some money next winter plowing with it for the state I can go for the 8v92T with about 500 hp. I should get about $125 Per hour with them. Hopefully It will snow alot. Any Ideas on a plow frame? Saw a guy selling one of a Mack but dont know how much modication would be neccesary to fit it to the ford.
if you plug in block heater overnite 2batts should start it . I don't think drilling exh. stud will give you that water problem unless head was off and one of the water seals is leaking [ there are about 8 under each head] but usually water seals or injector tube seals leak water into oil. could be a cracked head around valve seats into cyl.
The oil looks black as can be so its not getting into the oil it. It must be getting into either the airbox or the exhaust and burning off. I am talking to another guy now on a used 8v71 I am going to see if i can get him down to $400. He is asking a $1,000. I think it might be easier to swap my motor out for a slightly better shape one then to try to fix the heads and such. How hard of a job is it to just swap 8v71's? Do I have to take the tranny and Clutch out? Radiator?
not too bad to do, if i remember FORD rear motor mounts are on trans bellhousing, so trans can stay in place, you will have to pull nose & radiator out , not to bad except for rust up here in the salt belt, clutch will come out with motor, it would be wise to put a reman clutch in at this time unless other one is pretty new, the few hundred you will spend will be worth it. and you won't have to pull it apart again unless funds won't permit it
Is this something a unskilled mechanic can do? All I have done before is brakes Hoses etc. How much do you think a shop would charge $1500?
Engine swap The very first thing I would do is put some batteries to her and get the cooling system pressure checked with a pressure leak devise! The most cost effective test at this time and you can go to Autozone and get the pressure tester from loan-a-tool. Put the tester on her and install the batteries. Check the pressure. Crank her up and check the pressure again. If there is NO significant decrease not running and increase running, then the cooling system is OK! This test can make up your mind at to keep the engine rebuild or replace. DD do this thing where they leak oil into the air box and there is a name for it. It's called "surging and purging" When the piston drops below the air port in the cyl., it drags oil into the air box. That is why DD smoke so bad after coming off an extended idle. I would not but another 2 stroke DD in the truck because I never felt the 2 stroke was a good highway design. If it's in a crane, excavator, air compressor, or generator where it is ran at full throttle that is OK. DD power band is from 1900 to 2150 RPM. While driving down the road, once you drop to 1900 you also drop a gear. Once you get her back up to 2150, you add a gear! $1400 for the Cummins is a great price! You can argue the oil pan and maybe get the kit for $1000. Depends on how bad the man wants to get rid of it! As far as having to reman the truck for the Cummins, I highly doubt it. Those Fords were designed for any engine and trans combination! You still need to go look at one that is complete. Take pictures of yours with you to match frame position! Take a tape measure and a pad and write down som measurements. Again this is just time, as you haven't bought anything yet! This will tell you how much fabrication will ahve to be done. No one will do the investigating for you, and it's all acdemic until the first bolt is removed. You'll need a extra HHEEAAAVVYY duty engine lift to get the DD out and the Cummins in! If you do replace the clutch use a ceramic disk! They last 3 times longer than the fiber/metalic ones. Remember if you want something done right, call in the pros and bust the pig. You'll need major $$$$ for their time!
There are no trucks to take pics of because the Big Cam 4 didnt come out till 10 yrs after the truck did. My buddy has a 67 peterbilt with the big cam in it. It dones look like the tranny has been moved back at all. I will see what he has for motor mounts. He bought the truck like that already done. I think he has it tweaked up to about 550 hp.
Go see Paul at the Foot's. I get along well with him.........some don't He has always treated me good. But it doesn't hurt to ask. He might have all the stuff in his yard to put it all together. He is located in Norfolk MA. 508-384-2415
He's still around have not seen any of his ads. I know that he knows every peice of equipment /plow what ever on his lot. but what every he has isn't cheap as I was told by some one looking for 10-12' one way plow
Oh yeah, what you have is junk and what he has is gold. He has always been that way. But all in all he is a pretty good guy. From what I have heard and please don't quote me is that he has had a lot of trouble with the towns the past couple of years. But he is still around and goes under "Call & Wait" in Norfolk. Not much left in Wrentham. I have found that if you don't jerk him around, get straight to the point he will try to help out. Plows? He has always been high. He had some really good 11 footers early this year.
Well I I had the truck running today and the motor seems to runaway a bit when you step on the accelarator. I am thinking of fixing the detroit till I can make some money with it and do the Cummins Swap. Anyone know how to rebuild the blower? Im pretty sure its the blower cause its buring alot of oil, spitting it out the slobber tubes and it runs away a bit which means oil is being pumped into the cylinders. I am going to do the radiator test tomorrow the weather was cooperative to working outside today. What should the pressure readings be on the radiator running and not running?
As for the blower...that all depends on the wear overall. Bearings and seals are easy, but if the case is worn(likely) and the rotors damaged(likely) then it could get expensive. Tearing them down is no big deal(done it-got a 6-71 on my hot rod), but putting them together properly is the catch(if you get new parts). You could possibly just knock the ends off, and put new seals in it, but if the bearings are loose then the seals won't last. If you change bearings, then things could get touchy. The rotors are timed and clearances are very critical. Better off just getting a reman unit.
Or a Cummins.....:wink2
We run theese high strung engines in a couple of our old link belts...he crane is a hoss and that is for sure...we had one in an old cab over GMC as well..I am not a big fan of the engine at all.Dont get me wrong they are screamers..........they just are not real economical anymore. If it were me and I ended up with this unit. I would probably try to find one in a truck running at a salvage yard or find a company selling a truck with a blown up tranny or something with this engine in it and and try to get it cheap as hell. My thoughts only though.
Just for clarity I checked with a mechanic friend of mine who I'd trust to rebuild anything I have! The Cummins is a fit for the frame no problem there, but a better idea from Ford was to make a cab floor and doghouse configured for the DD! It will involve more than just changing mounts! Major surgery will have to be done the floor pan at the fire wall to get a Cummins, Cat, or 4 stroke DD to fit in there! Then there’s getting her sealed back up to keep out the heat of the engine, and the cold of the Spring/Fall! He also stated that this engine is NOT a perfect fit. There are stresses that make one bank wear faster than the other! You won't get the mileage from a rebuild that you should! There will always be problems with leaks, and stresses on the engine itself! The man likes DD as he has 2- 4L53's and 1- 6v53 mounted in 2 craned and an air compressor! Depending on the problem the rebuild can start at $3000 and go up from there! He stated that you probably have stress cracks in the head and/or block, or you have a head gasket (a single ring that sits on top the liner) that has failed, or a liner is starting to move! If you choose to fix this truck, it’s going to take $$$$! What you have is a rolling parts truck! A good trans and diff's, a good steer axle, Dump bed and controls, a PTO, a hyd reservoir, some decent tires, a lift axle (also called a pusher or tag) Fuel tanks misc lights! You have about $8K in usable parts! If you want longevity, I'd look for another truck NOT Ford. There are more problems with Ford L series I haven't mentioned. The passenger side hyd steering cylinder has a tendency to blow the end cap off for NO reason other than it’s just pressed on! Once this fails, you'll not turn her! Also you probably have 38K Eaton’s under the bed. I know a 1979 L9K that went through 3 sets in 5 years from overloading the truck! So there is some professional advice from a mechanic that works on these trucks daily! Know why the L Ford is so cheap? Ford made millions of them from the late 60's with gas 361's to 97 when that ran out of hoods for them!
Well I think I am going to go the in-frame route. Put new batteries in her today just to find out the starter is frozen. Waste of 350 dollars but atleast I have new batteries. Just priced up kits from some online places and found a inframe kit for $1200. Would I need anything else besides this kit? I know I will need some fluids but just making sure nothing else major I dont want to start something and run out of money half way through. Labor I am guessing around $2000. The starter I guess I will take it to the truck electric place and have them replace the windings. The only thing I am worried about is maybe a cracked cylinder head. Is this repairable or do I need a new head? I really want a cummins but Ill have to wait for my next truck.
You should ring around for a Re-manufactured starter. The price will be set & should have warranty. Cracked heads can be repaired. Plenty of businesses make a living from that in Australia. Make sure they give a warranty on the work, if that is the problem............C ya........Ray
I did't bring this up cause i didn't want to bash FORDS but what i have seen working on them over the years is they incorporate too much automotive engineering in thier trucks and it dosn't hold up in const. in my humble opinion one of the best dump trucks is a MACK that is all mack. there are others also but Bulldogs are best
Well turns out I have the more expensive heads in my motor. I have the crosshead style which adds $500 to the cost. So as it stands the inframe kit is $1856 which includes a blower rebuild kit as well.
We get our starters rebuilt for a fraction of the price of a new one.
Mack VS all others! You are RIGHT when talking about the R model. Nothing in the world can touch an R with a Mack 350 HP. The only problem with Mack is that it's all MACK! The Enginge is Mack The Trans is Mack, the diff's are Mack, and Mack COMMANDS the Mack price on it's parts! Since the CL Mack they seemingly went to the standard Fuller Trans and Rocks for diff's! I drove a 1968 steel fender butterfly hood with the 258 inline 6, and a Twin Stick hi/lo. Like the DD I hated coming to a small mound on the highway! The amazing thing was the cold start instruction were still on the visor. Get this "Put accelator on floor and crank engine until start. Once engine is running hold accelator on floor until engine smothes out. " Also Mack doesn't red line until 2800 RPM The main drawback on the R was they are built for a size 40 regular! I'm a size 60 driver! It's like putting 10 pounds of manure in a sandwich bag! (ha haha ha) Sterling, KW, Pete's, Freight Liners, IH, and the LTL Fords have more room in the cab, which makes them more apealing to the drivers, as well as the availability of the big HP engines! Drivers love the big power!
you pry need an overhaul
Well I did some work on the truck and ruled out the exhaust manifold bolt the previous owner said was the problem. I got a new starter and batterys in it and starts up just fine now. The problem is I am still getting alot of Blue smoke and the airbox drains are still dripping excessive oil. The smoke is very little at an idle and when revved up produces a heavy thick blue smoke. The truck has a smooth idle which kinda rules out a piston with a hole in it. I should go into the mosquito control bussiness with the truck haha. This saturday I am going to investigate the blower seals. Anything Else I should look for? I put a gauge on the raditor and it doesnt seem I am getting any pressure from the cylinders. Oil Is running out at a rate of 1/2 Gallon an hour between the dripping the motor burning it.
I don't know much about Detroits, but a compression test might be in order. I'm afraid that it might be wishful thinking to think that the oil leak is coming from the blower, but again, it could be and that would be a cheap fix. I don't know. I do know that rebuilding an engine, or even the components, is more than buying an overhaul kit and putting the parts in. There is bound to be some machine work (milling the heads, grinding/plating the crank, cam, valves, seats, cam followers, flywheel, etc, etc.). Ones that I've done have needed more than just parts anyway. I dunno. I can see myself in you too, trying to do it on the cheap, but I have found that I just end up fixing and fixing on whatever piece of equipment it is, and could have been just as far ahead by spending more at the very beginning. I realize that you already own the truck and just need to make it go, but don't sink good money after bad. Paul
Yea I know I am just trying to avoid all the expenses at once. I have narrowed it down to either the blower seals or a piston with a hole in it
Just to throw this out there: It might really be worth it to work that engine hard for a couple of hours and see what happens with the smoke. You don't have much to lose. The Detroits were great for blubbering, wet stacking, and smoking if allowed to just sit there and idle for extended periods. They need a load on the pistons to seal up very well. It sounds ridiculous today, but there used to be dozens of 8V71s around town and a gallon of oil a day was not considered any particular reason to overhaul one.
I was thinking of doing that but then I got scared after hearing runaway detroit stories. It leaks/burns more like a gallon an hour which is excessive
Well,..... if it does, that will help you decide what to do! :laugh Paul
Here's a trick I used on 71series gemmies years ago. Remove the air filters. Run the motor and chuck a small handfull of Bon-ami (an abrasive dry powdered household cleaning agent) into the intake. It will act like a hone and reduce any bore glazing, and blows staight out the exhaust. Gemmies were made to work hard and extended idling will shine the cylinder bores and make them slobber and smoke. Best of luck....C ya........Ray
8v71 Well I have read all the quotes and decided to add mine. Listen or not, you will say one day "I wish I had listened" I have owned and operated about 50, 6 & 8V71's mostly in the marine application, where they are run at full throttle all the time. They have problems, if they ever run hot they will crack the head, or heads (about $12-1500 each) plus mechanic(this sounds like your problem, plus engine wear)They are easy to rebuild, if you know the engine, if not- forget it. Rebuilding the blower, forget it, I wouldnt even attempt it and I used to be a Detroit mechanic, without the right tools and know how, bad idea to attempt it. The running away, is probrably a sticking injector, (about $100 exchange, plus mechanic)as stated, if it runs away you will know what to do then. I have been there and done that, not good. Dont even think about setting the rack yourself, you need injectors tools and feeler gauges, to start the process, then the correct combination to set the injectors, to the governor, I hope the engine has a emergency shutdown that works (usually a manual pull cable in the cab) if it ever runs away, it can pick up the oil and burn that and throw a rod, or worst. did I say not good. These engines are still used in marine construction today, they are a good engine, but I dont like them in dump trucks. We try to use Cummins (400 is good) and Cat's. I bought a old Ford L9000 a few years ago to fix as an extra truck, after I got involved in it, I realized that was a bad idea, so I sold it and lost money. I had rather lose a little money, than a bunch. I could write a lot more, but I will leave you with this, dont mess with this engine, take it out and throw it away, you always find things wrong as you start looking. There are alot of good running 8V71 engines, the cheapest way, is too find a good one and change it out. pull your valve cover and see what the number is on the injectors might be N55 N70, N90 or any others, see what color the tag is where the number is. This all makes a difference in HP, make sure the newer engine has this same thing or more (contact Detroit about what the more could be, numbers, color???) Pull the cover off the blower for the newer engine, look at the blower lobes, are they scored, real-real oily, any signs of them touching each other, this is signs of a bad blower. Get them to start the newer engine, good idea to have a oil pressure guage installed (min of 10-15 psi idle warm) they all smoke when cold, but should stop when warm, should idle smooth. I really dont recommend any other change outs, you will be sorry, it will cost a bunch of money to install another kind of engine. Find a good 8V71, change it out (find a good tree limb)and work with it, until you can afford to buy something else and do this quick, you will learn all the guys at the repair shop, by first name. They may name their first child in your honor. Good running engine $1200-$1500, I may know someone that has one, but he is in NC. Good luck and this info comes from the school of hard knocks:Banghead
Well I found a detroit diesel specialist today that works in the machine shop at a local heavy truck parts store. He has all the tools and access to a machine shop if neccesary. He is only going to charge me $40 an hour to work on it. He rebuilds blowers and heads at the store for a living. I am just trying to get some more info from people on here. He comes out saturday to take a look and run some tests and I was just wondering if there was anything else I should look for he seems to think it blower seals or a hole in a piston by talking to him. The thing that is throwing me off is if it was a hole in a piston oil would only come out of one airbox drain and not both equally. I dont know if a blower seal can dump that much oil into the airbox.
8v71 More hard knock info, dont let the mechanic talk you into rebuilding the engine, UNLESS he will give you a flat total price, which he is crazy to do, unless he tears the engine down, then you got about 20-25 hrs for tear down and he tells you OK you need a crank, rear seal, engine has to come out about and rebuild $6-8,000.00 You can get a bunch of money in troubleshooting, watch out
I have looked at used motors and most ones that run and have been tested not to smoke are around $2500 and then another $1000 to put it in. So for $3500 I have a motor I dont know the history of. Here is the website I saw the motor on http://www.adelmans.com/atruckparts.html Then click view the flyer at the bottom for the prices. I figured I can do an inframe around $3000 with parts and the mechanic at $40 an hour. The inframe kit is only $1700. The mechanic said he could do the in frame in 3 saturdays. Him been the local machinest I am hoping he can just bring the heads to work with him and put them on the mill to re level them cause I am sure they are slightly warped. I am just hoping to avoid an inframe right now and just fix what ever is wrong with it for now to patch it back together. Like maybe I could get away with rebuilding the blower and maybe a head and it will stop smoking enough to use it for a lil bit. I dont mind adding extra oil everyday but I am sure I will get red flagged if I have a smoke screen behind me. So you have me a lil scared right now so I think I am going to have him just spend like 4 hours on it and run a compression test, inspect air box and piston rings, inspect blower, etc and find out as much info as I can to make the decsion to fix for go to plan B.
smokin I didnt mean to scare you, but just to let you know what you are getting into. I have been there and done that, the work is slow everywhere now, so unless you have a contract, good backer or banker, Bee Ware of what you do. You are trying to get started into the business, with as little as you can, I understand that, then work your way up. Get the guy to check out the engine, go that far. If it smokes white smoke, more than likely its a cracked head and it takes a new/rebuilt head, its not a valve grinding job. If the valve dropped, it probrably messed the piston up. I have had this happen and replaced the head, dropped the pan and replaced this one piston and linner, but I knew what the condition of the rest of the engine was. I will send you a PM with a friend of mine in NC, that deals with these engines, he is a good guy and he might can help with parts or info. If you take the truck apart and dont have the money to fix it, then if you need/have to sell it, most of the time its only worth salvage, because it wont run and not many people want/need part from a 74 Ford Sorry to be so negative, just telling it like it is most of the time. Check your PM
xcavate: Having been where you are now; may I share an experience with you? Had a similuare problem with equipment that needed a repair that I just didn't have the money for right then. So I put a patch on hoping it would hold until the money started coming in. The plan was July 4th weekend would make the proper repair. Well the season started slow, lots of rain that year, come July 4th just enough to pay the bills. Patch was causing more expense, just maintaining the patch! Finally in August had the money to make repairs! Going over the books at the end of the season, the patch and the cost of maintaining the patch cost more than the proper repair, just not at one time. Then there was the lost revenue due to this equipment being down to repair the patch! I have been in the situation where you have to choose for example brakes or tires. Both are necessities! Both are needed for safe operation! I don't know the answer; You need tires to roll the truck; and brakes to stop the truck; have to have hyd oil in the res; and hoses to direct the oil! There is no easy answer here! The patch could let go at the worst moment; Murhpy's Law = What ever can go wrong WILL GO wrong! even things you thought you already addressed! What ever you decide to do; good luck BTW: This engine might have been idled a lot for the sale! Guys coming by to hear the engine and such! The engine should have an emergency shut down that is cable operated. This could be ran to the cab, or the standard shut down like the old R model Mack. Turning off the key only shut down the electrical system! There is a pull knob that kills the engine! If your truck is set up with a mechanical shut down, the chance of a run away is slim, because you shut down the engine mechanically! If this is the case, take it out and haul maybe 10 tons of material to a sight or stockpile! This will tell you where you stand! You do need to run the engine to get it to operating temp, and ideling just won't do that! I don't care what the temp gauge says! Again this is the best test for the money youcan perform! Good Luck, and chalk this up to a lesson learned!
8v71 Just another thought, you said you were going to do a compression check, I hope you meant water. If you meant engine compression, you realize you have to pull the valve cover, rack, valve bridge, then injectors, install a compression device (it has to be one for this engine) then re-install all this stuff and re-set the governor and rack. More work and problems, a good 71 mechanic can pull the inspection ports and look at the rings and liners. look at the local truck papers and find out what good dump bodies are selling for. In our area a good body will bring around $2500 plus. checkout the other parts on the truck rears, tires, tranny, etc. You might can get your money back, by parting out the truck. Check your local big truck salvage dealer, he might want the truck for parts. just some more of my past experiences
Let me start by saying this. I bought the truck orginally to plow next winter with. I have a few friends that plow for the state and I would get 130 an hour for the truck with an 11 foot plow. On average there are about 50 hours of plowing a year for the state. So I bought the truck thinking Id make my money back in a year and if it dies who cares. Then my boss at work asked to use it as a dump truck and would pay for my tax tags title and insurance fees to use it occisonally as we dont have any dumps. So I am not looking for a daily driver most of the time the truck will be on a site moving material. Ill take some more pics tomorrow for you guys. I can tolerate the oil usage if I could just get the smoke and the air box drains to stop dripping. I started it again today and the truck is using about a gallon in 15 mins or running. Of the gallon that was missing only about 4 oz came out the airbox drains. I moved it in the yard. The jake brake doesnt seem to be working could that be the problem too? The inside of the exhaust manifold are covered in oil. How can this oil get into the exhaust without burning. Could the smoke just be from the oil in the pipe and not from the combustion chamber? The rest of the truck is is great shape. The dump piston is newly rebuilt. The truck has all new air lines in it(held 60psi overnight). The dump body and tailgate are in great shape and must not be orginal to the truck. The dump has always had plywood as a liner on it. The pto clutch and tranny are new with 30,000 miles on them. Need 2 steer tires and 1 rear tire rest at 50% Needs tag axle tires but not a neccesity right away. Truck hasnt ran in a year. I have only had it idling and moved around yard not really worked it. Previous owner said he parked it when a friend drilled an exhaust manifold bolt out and the motor started to smoke. When I got up there to buy it he said it wasnt leaking oil when he parked it.
4 ounces out of the drains is too much but you can't consider oil draining from the tubes as a leak. They always drip a little and have to. This is why they came up with the catch can system as drips on the ground are now illegal. Bent or plugged air box drains was the classic way for a Detroit to run away as oil built up in the air box and then got sucked into the ports.
Jake brakes require oil pressure to work, if the oil level is low there's not enough to reach the solenoids.
xcavate While idling after cold start, DD do what is called surge and purge; this is where they rid themselfs of oil and condensation built up in the air box! Since your cooling system does NOT leak down from a pressure test, and the pressure doesn't rise while the engine is running; the fig 8 gaskets and head gaskets should be OK. Also I don't feel that you have a sleve creeping on you! That engine will NOT reach operating temp at an IDLE!!! This will cause seeps and leaks where there in NONE! You got to get her on the road with a light load! Ask the boss if he needs some gravel at a local job sight! Some night when you can run her down the road get her up to 55, and take her back home and see how bad she's smoking then! You'll know once you get to 6th or 7th gear where you stand! Your gonna have to RUN that engine; and putting around the yard just aint gonna get it!
I would love to take it out and put a load on it the problem being I cant drive it anywhere with all the smoke. I can smoke out a whole city block no problem in a few min. At an Idle the smoke isnt bad at all but as soon as I hit the gas it starts pouring out. Thinking the smoke might be fuel its blueish white. More blue at an idle and more white at full rev. The oil in the exhaust I am told is most likley unburnt diesel. Any thoughts on this?
Thats why rino suggested "some night"
My 871 in my bus conversion does the biggggggg smoke thing when I rev it up after idling . It does clear up after a short run under load and I do not use any antifreeze.Oh and it does leak like a bugger.I have it down to a couple of quarts a day after chasing leaks for a few years. I have also been told that if I cranked up the governor that it would clean up alittle.It is currently set to max out at 59.8 MPH. I only leave it at this speed because it has an air throttle and to try and hold a legal speed is a nightmare so with this I acn just hold it to the floor.
I am just nervous to drive it I dont want a runaway. I keep a fire extingusher handy just in case. What do I do if it runs away while I am driving it? I am thinking It might just need the hell ran out of it and I might have a stuck fuel injector which is causing the oil in the exhaust.
Other people have mentioned the emergency engine shut down. This is completely separate from the normal engine shut down. There should be a big flapper door that snaps closed and blocks all air to the engine when the cable is pulled. Then it has to be manually reset under the hood. Make sure that stuff works and is not all rusted up. They are usually really stiff from never being used as it's not supposed to be used except when there's a problem.
runaway Detroit 8V71 Do you have a emergency shutdown cable? Its usually a red handle manual knob, in the cab, I would strongly advise you to make sure it works. This shuts the air off to the engine, its almost the only way to slow down a runaway detroit (I have been there and done that on 2 ocassions, it aint pretty when this happens) If this happens, you usually dont have much time to do much, these engines will suck the oil out of the base and burn it, when they runaway. Cutting the fuel off, does very little good. If you dont have a manual shutdown lever, look on top of the blower, is there a device that has a lever, this is the shutdown control, make sure it works. sometimes they might have a electric solenoid attached. Now, if you dont have this shutoff, get some heavy towel, or blanket that you can put over/around the air filter/inlet. Make sure you know excatly where all this is, if it happens, it happens quick and you need to know what to do. This is another reason, to have a mechanic that knows how to troubleshoot these engines. Normally, when you have a sticking injector, you can find it, by removing the valve covers, pulling the rack pin (dont drop it, or the cotter pin, it could drop in the head oil drains) then working the rack and make sure it springs back to its position, if it doesnt, sometimes, just a tap on the sticking injector will free it up, you need to check both sides. Some other things, if the flyweights in the governor are sticking, this requires someone that knows these engines. Either one of these, will cause a run away, but its usually an injector. Let us all know when you get the mechanic to checkout the engine, we are all wondering what he says. When you start the engine (you dont have to press the accelarator, it starts at full rack and then slows down) cold, doesnt it idle back down, or does it idle high? Another thing to check, is the throttle linkage, you can take it off at the governor lever (dont take the lever off) and then work the linkage, the ball joints get rusty, if they set up, this has nothing to do with smoking, just the possible runaway question. So let us know, we are all setting on the edge of our seats, waiting for a answer.
Well the mechanic Bailed on me today. He is going to come out thursday now. I drove the truck up and down the street a few times and here are some things I noticed. In the 20 mins the truck was running it lost a gallon of oil. There was a decent size puddle under the airbox drains but not more then 10 oz. 1. At an idle the engine smoke pure blue smoke. Not much smoke at an idle 2. When revved up its spew a white/grey smoke. 3. Motor wasnt firing correctly seem to have a studder. I did find that the throttle linkage to be sticking causing it to hold high rpms. I will have to lube the ball joints up so it moves easier. Truck doesnt runaway at all now with using my hand on the linkage at the governor. I am starting to fear the worst a piston with a hole in it.
Well I got the bad news today. Its not the blower or injectors. I have a piston with a hole in it. Anyone know where to get a in-frame kit or cylinder kits?
8v71 smok N I know you know this, but You will need some more info. what size linner is in the engine, it maybe/could be different sizes. The ONLY way to find this out, is to pull it. You will need a connecting rod and bearing, need to know what size bearing. You will possibily need a shim kit for the linner, you wont know, until you put the new one in the hole. They dont cost that much, less than $20, so if you dont need it, youre not out much This is an idea and I have done this before with good sucess. IF everything else is OK, just replace the piston/rings, rod, and bearing. Make sure the rack in the injectors, moves freely when you hold it on the side, the injector rack should fall to the other direction, turn it over and it should go the other way, without binding. If it binds, it could be a problem. A summary of what I am saying is, if everything else is OK, just replace the bad items piston,rings, linner,rod and bearing. I would pull the cap off some of the mains and check the bearings. If you dont have the money to go all the way, this does work sometimes for a while. If you have a diesel injector center (they rebuild/test most injectors) in your area, I would spend the money to have the 4 injectors tested. In some cases, the tips burn off of the injectors, causing the piston to fail, they can also check the rack, I mentioned before. This is good money spent. You didnt say how you found out about the piston, did someone pull the inspection ports? did he check all ports, good idea to check all of them, while you are apart. If the head looks bad at all, have it pressure checked, for cracks, if thats the same head that had the bad bolt, I would have it checked anyway. If the pressure check is OK and the valves look good, I dont think I would do a head job, if you are trying to save money. Here are some numbers for after market parts. I wouldnt spend the extra money for OEM parts, they are not that much better. When you are shopping, ask for after market parts, if not they will try to sell you OEM. AIS engine 1-800-442-2522 RCS diesel 413-589-9976 Try Google, and see what they say Record any items you find, for future info. what size injectors, size of linners, record any linner that has shims and keep the shims with the hole it goes in (tag them). bearing sizes, if you look at them. Record the injector tool, that is used to set the injectors, if your mechanic doesnt have one, ask the shop that you get the parts from to send you the correct one, there are several to pick from, have your serail number and injector tag color and number available for them. The usual things, change the fuel and oil filters. If there are signs of rust on the bottom side of the water pump, change it. Last but not less, One day I would tear the engine down, to do the repairs you want, now you have the numbers to order parts. Set up a day for cleaning and taking things to the shop (head?, injectors, etc) then a day for install. A piston and all parts, can be replaced, in one long day, if everything is ready. I started off, not to be too long, but my fingers got carried away again Good Luck and keep us posted
We took off the exhaust manifolds and airbox drains. I figure while I have the motor apart I should just change everything I can. There is one piston that looks to have a hole in it and the rest of the liners arent in that great of shape. The frame rails make it kinda tough to look in these at the right angle. The mechanic had mentioned it would be alot easier if i didnt reinstall the jake brake. There is tons of room and I am going to try to some of the work myself. I will disassemble the air cleaner,exhaust manifolds and some other misc things that are in the way. I will also drain the oil and antifreeze so when the mechanic shows up he can just start taking parts off. I will probably take the oil pan off myself while I am under there draining it. I will most likely also remove the valve covers and and electrical wires. So after I do all the above I am hoping the mechanic can come take off blower, governor, heads and pistons liners in about 6-8 hours. He will take the heads to work with him and check them out for me and mill them if needed. Once motor is apart he will measure for liners so I know which ones I take. There is a diesel shop right near my house that does injector testing although I dont know how much it cost but cant be that much maybe $100 for all of them. Most of the variables are fixed with an inframe. The only forseeable problem is having to rebuild the blower which we inspected today and isnt leaking oil or maybe a cylinder head having a hairline crack. A cylinder head core is around 500. So here is my budget. Parts $1550 for inframe kit Labor $900 approx 20 hours of mechanic not inclding my time Misc $300 Oil/Antifreeze/Antisieze/Oil Filter/Fuel Filter/Injector Testing(Already installed new air filter) Total $2650 Is this realistic? Does the starter and waterpump stay on for an inframe? I am guessing I should reinstall the jake brake or is it alot of work?
8v71 smok N Most of the time, the starter stays on, as before look for rust aound the bottom of the water pump, no reason to take it off, unless its leaking. Most of the time the blower stays on, unless there are signs of trouble. Its a good idea to do as much as you can, bad idea if mechanic is not real familiar, with where everthing goes back. Be real careful with the fuel hoses that go to the heads, they will cross thread easy, use a large adjustable wrench to remove them from the head, using a wrench, will crush the sides. One of the numbers I sent you, I saw a rebuild kit for $900, not sure what it includes
Well I called the places that you reccomended and Ais wanted 1500 for there kit with free shipping and Rcs diesel was 1450 plus tax 5%. I have been scanning ebay and craigslist to find people selling kits. I have never done an inframe before so I really appreciate all the help from people on the board. Unforuntatly its easter weekend so I wont be working on the truck this weekend but next saturday I plan on starting this project. I am guesing the first step is to remove the fluids, air cleaner assembly, valve covers,oil pan and exhaust manifolds. I have the 8v71 shop manual but it lacks good step by step directions. What would be the next few steps after I do the above? Take the heads off I am guessing? What is the proper way to take the heads off? Does the govenor stay on? Whats the proper way to get the piston and liners out? As soon as I have the motor apart I am going to have the mechanic come over and take the measurements for all the parts. ITs big that the blower stays on that will save a few hours. The more and more I think about this project the easier its seaming. Thanks for all your help so far.
Taken her apart I have to say again, the person that puts the engine back together, needs to know this engine, or he should be the one to take it apart. Im not familiar with the Jake brakes on your engine, so Im not going to offer any help, on that. Ive never done this in a Ford, but it should be the same on most of them. Chock the wheels and disconnect the batteries. The following suggestions are not excatly for your application, so just think ahead. Remove all the parts, that you need to to get to the engine parts (air cleaner, etc. cut the fuel off both tanks, drain the oil first, then the water (its keeps the ground dry, so you can get under the truck) Im assumming you are doing this outside. If you send me a PM, I will send you my email address and you can send me yours and I will write up a list and email it too you. It will be kinda long and probrably long and boring to others on this forum
Hey Willis B: Never under any circumstances feel that by using this fourm to help someone "will be kinda long and probrably long and boring to"! I for 1 want to see this man get that truck back on the road! I get long winded trying to add my experiences! Thanx for thinking of others; but we are all wanting the same results that you are shooting for; helping another board member with a problem! I'm sure the rest of the board feels the same way! Good luck to the both of you and I'll say a prayer for all! God knows that DD's need all the prayers they can get! (LOL)
engine work Well, thanks for that info. I have emailed the 3 pages, maybe he can post them. I really didnt think that everyone would want to read step by step instructions, on how to take a head off, etc, especially on a outdated engine. If everyone wants all that info, I will be glad to share it.
Anyone who is bored by it doesn't need to read it, but I'll bet there's a bunch of motorheads here that would be interested to see how it goes. Feel free to post!!
I will be trying to get some pics as I do this for you peoople on the board. I dont know how many I can get dont want to get my new camera all oily but I will get some. I just realized today my socket set doesnt have 12 pt sockets in it. Anyone know where to get a good set of sockets? I will need a pretty decent set with swivel joints and some extensions.
tools For the most part, I dont see you needing any 12 pt sockets. I buy most of my general tools from people that sells aftermarket, I think most of mine are MIT or MTI, they are cheaper and when the guys lose them, I dont get as mad. We have a local guy that comes around every few weeks, get with your mechanic buddy and see if a tool truck comes to where is works. Im not talking about SnapOn. I also buy from the local tractor/farm places. If you have a Napa auto parts, some of them has cheaper tools. Do you have flea markets, great source for cheaper tools, they usually carry the off brands. If you dont have any of these, just go to Sears and get what you need, or a rental place, or call the relatives. I guess all the guys want you to post the instructions I sent you, Im not sure how to do it
Not a problem I can post the instructions. The valve covers are held on by a 12 pnt socket kinda looks like a spline. Also when I had the starter changed the guy had to use a 12 pnt socket for those bolts as well. Chock the wheels and disconnect the batteries, shutoff fuel. Save the hardware with each part. 1.Drain the oil, then the water, there might be water drains on the side of the block, drain them also 2.Remove all accessories that are in the way (air cleaner and piping, etc) 3.Pull the blower cover off and check the blower lobes for damage and heavy oil. “DO NOT DROP ANYTHING IN THE BLOWER AND KEEP IT COVERED ALL THE TIME” 4.Remove the valve covers, I think you now can remove the Jake brakes, as I stated I’m not sure about the Jakes, if the governor rod is in the way, go to step 5 and take the rod out 5.Remove the throttle linkage from the top of the governor, take off the top of the governor, usually 7/16 socket, 4 bolts a.Look inside and you will see where the linkage rod that goes to the head is located, remove the keeper pin from each end, *don’t drop them*, put them in a safe place, they seem to get lost. b.If the Jake has been removed, Now remove the other end of the control rod, from the rack on the head. *Careful, don’t drop the pin or keeper* c.Remove the rod, pay attention to what side they go on, I think they are the same, or shaped where you cant make a mistake 6.Using a 7/16 ¼ dr socket, take the 2 bolts out of each end of the rack, pay attention, to what position the spring load tension is. Do both sides 7.Un- hook the exhaust manifold, sometimes you can just take out the bolts and let it hang 8.Remove the bolts from the blower to the head 9.Remove fuel lines, any water piping, etc from the head, use a little thought when doing this, it’s been a few years since I done this and I may not remember every little detail. 10.Remove the fuel jumper lines 8 on each side, they are all the same, unless someone bent them, ½ wrench or crowfoot 11.Remove the valve bridges, ¾ - ½ drive socket and pull handle a.This is pretty easy, just keep it all together b.Do the other side c.Pull out the push rods, they are all the same 12.Remove the injectors, for now mark their location a.Use a ½”-3/8” drive, socket and extension, this bolt has a special washer on it, don’t lose it and don’t turn it the wrong way during installation. b.Remove the crab, the special bracket that holds the injector c.Now the bad problem, you need a small heel bar, to go under the bottom corner and break it out. I have tried several different tools to do this, but this is the only one that works, all the time. There is a notch on one side/bottom of each injector, to put his and pry it out. This are not hard to find tools, Harbor Freight has them (if you have a local store) AgriSupply, Tractor Supply. They are used for a lot of things and come in different sizes. I can email a picture, if you don’t know what it is. d.You can pull the head, with the injectors still in, but don’t put the head down on something solid, it will mess the tips up. e.Marking the location of the injectors, are necessary if you find a bad piston, you can look at the injector for signs of a bad injector 13.Ok just a little summary, we have taken all the items from outside the head and out of the inside of the head 14.Take the head bolts out, I think it was ¾ or 7/8” ½ drive pull handle and a cheater bar. They are all the same. If everything is disconnected/removed the head come right off. Do both sides, the same. Look at the bottom side, checking for pieces missing from the sides of the valves. Look at the bottom of the valves, does it look like they have been hitting the pistons, shining or damaged metal 15.OK now the heads are off, do you see anything wrong with any of the O-ring gaskets and the figure 8 gasket 16.Drop the pan, sometimes you have to remove the oil suction strainer, make sure that if it has any shims, to keep them together 17.Get a ¾ drive socket and ratchet that will fit the front pulley bolt. You really need a helper now. Look down in the cylinders and you will see holes in the liners (with the piston all the way down) a.Remove the connecting rod bolts (2) on that cylinder, if you need to turn the engine to get the socket on the bolts, that OK I think its ¾”-1/2” drive b.With the cap off and the piston below the holes, put something like a 3/8 X 2” bolt (2) and put in the liner holes, just stick the bolts in the liner a little way. Rotate the engine, until the piston is against the bolts, putting a little pressure, turn the engine (in the same direction) and the liner will pop out, just pull it all out, mark it for location. Did it have shims under the liner? c.Do this 8 times, check the connecting rod bearings and the crank journals, for damage. d.I would pull at least one of the main bearing and check it, if it’s OK make sure it gets torqued to the correct values. 18.Now hopefully, everything is out and hopefully no busted knuckles a.Take the heads and get pressure checked b.Sometimes you can get the liner size off the liner, if not, it can be milked, for OD size c.Have the injectors tested d.Clean all parts I start the project next weekend so if anyone has any comments or suggestions I would appreicaite it. Thank you to Willis for taking the time to type these instructions for me.
8v71 smok N See I told you, I would forget something, you are right, valve covers 12pt and the inside starter bolt should be 12pt, the other two are 6 pt, unless someone changed them Good luck
in frame kits One of my trucks has a jake brake, we live in the flatlands, we never use it. Find out what the pros and cons are in your area with the Jake, in my opinion, if you dont need it, why have it. more numbers for kits, some of them maybe the same 888-256-7872 800-467-5545 800-828-6943 877-282-4170
here are some #s for parts national fleet supply 800 428 8629 and #1 performance 800 453 8250 and engine distribators 800 220 2700 /// you need a special tool to install wrist pin plugs & vacume test them. DD has a very strong bearing setup they don't go bad often but if it's apart change them.important to check liner dia. & protrusion look for cracks in counter bore, Don't Stick bolt in too far in intake ports you could chip block. before you can call for parts you need to know if you have trunk or crosshead pistons . cracks between valves in heads?
A Jake on a 2 stroke Detroit is not real effective, we have one on our Engine at the fire dept. and it doesn't do a whole lot for slowing the truck compared to a 4 stroke diesel.
J/Bs on 8v92s work OK but on 71s your right they don't do much
mechanic & News MIA I was ready a post about 2 months ago, about a guy that couldnt get his tractor started. Everyone was giving him advise and he would go do it and come back and post the results. This went on about 2 weeks, then he went MIA and here we are, wondering about the poor old tractor LOL, Still havent heard anything. I was just wondering what happened to xcavate, hope something didnt fall on him, trying to get the engine apart LOL. if you are out there excavate, let us know whats going on. Its like a soap bopper, we need to know LOL
LOL I am still here been really busy. This is the first week of dry above freezing weather we have had in the northeast and I was trying to get a muddy job dryed out and graded. Anyway I am going to talk to my mechanic tomorrow and see if he is free on sat to help me take it apart. My freind that was going to assit me in taking it apart decided to go snow mobiling up north one last time for the year. I still havent found 12 point sockets yet to take the valve covers off. On the jake brakes on a 2stroke. Do they work at all? I mean I have read the people put them on buses and are amaze at what they do. How much noise do they make on a 2 stoke? I think I might want them just for the sound if it makes my motor even louder. I like people to hear me coming.
The Jakes on the 2 stroke will slow you somewhat, but near as much as on a 4 stroke engine. I don't think they necessarily make the engine louder, on the truck I drive it almost sounds as if a heat shield is buzzing when the Jake is at work. I almost think it's quieter when the Jake is on than when accelerating, not like the puking you hear from the 4s.
location what part of Boston are you located? I spent 2 years in the Boston area,2000-2003, but in my old line of work as Boat Captain. I was working with a dredging outfit, that was deepening the harbor. We were based at a old warehouse, on the north side of the harbor. It is where the harbor pilots are located. I stayed in an apt. not far from there in a small town that started with a W Windtrep or something like that. Great job, loved the area, but cold in the winter. I left there and went to Providence, RI for two years. I guess this is off the subject of jake brakes
if your looking for DDA engines or parts used. there is a co. near me in NJ called NIMCO/bus div. 800 526 8055 or 973 589 9265, they have engines &parts crated ready to ship, 71's 6&8 cyl &V's also 40, 50, 60series. parts I have got from them have been good
Thier web adress is www.nimcobus.com
8v71 Well, I didnt sleep all weekend, waiting for a reply about the engine dissassembly LOL:Banghead Guess I should sleep tonight, because Ive give up waiting for a post and I need sleep LOL
I went out and got a drain pan to drain the oil into today. When I got back to the truck to start working the weather had other plans. I will bring my camera tomorrow and take some before pics of the engine compartment.
if you take off press.regul.&relief valve don't mix them up or you will oil press. problems
I just cant win I am starting to get discouraged and I havent even started yet. The weather is just not cooperating with me this week. Tomorrow the weather looks better so stay tuned for pics. I wish I had a nice warm dry garage to work in instead of my buddys backyard.
8v71 smokN MIA Im still waiting for the soap bopper to continue, the writters strike is over LOL Welcome to trucking and the out door garage, there are a bunch of us that has the same size place to work in, if you know what I mean. Wx is kicking us in the butt, we have bunches of hauling (trucking) work, but its too wet, to get on the job site. Got me thinking again (thats not good) high fuel costs, high maintenance costs, low hourly truck rates, slow economy, WE MUST LOVE OUR WORK
well i'll tell you what I have done in the past when the weather didn't cooperate. I put a big blue tarp over truck and work area held up with 2x4s [a BIG tent] put in space heater, left open on one end to let air in so you don't choke &die and git-r-done
Finally Started the project Well I had a few hours today so I started the project. I have drained the oil out of the oil pan. Taken the air cleaner assembably off. Then I took the exhaust manifolds off. For some reason I cant get a socket on the front and back exhaust bolts on the drivers side. I didnt have the right size wrench with me so I had to leave on manifold on. I also go the 3/8" 12pt socket and took the valve covers off. I am going to drop the pan in the next day or two then call my mechanic in to take apart the heads. I noticed alot of carbon buildup inside the exhaust ports. All 4 cylinder I could see had alot of oil in there. There is some funky stuff on the jakes. Any ideas? Some pics.
what's on the JB? sludge or are you saying JB looks strange? DDA's JB's look different than CAT or Cummins JB... exh. ports don't look that bad i've seen worse. Some times those front exh. bolts are hard to get a socket on & sometimes only a Snap-On socket works!
There is some white milky looking stuff on the jakes. One of them has what looks like rust on it.
if it is just a little don't worry it's just condensation if it's 1/4" thick it might be a water leak into oil . when you drained oil did water come out first or was it just oil? if motor sat a long time without running you could get rust on top of JBs
I remember the oil color not being jet black when it came out it. It looked lighter then normal in color more greyish with some black streaks in it.
8v71 Checking on the process again
update Xacvate, I have just read all of the posts on your Detroit and was wondering how it is going.I posted for help on my oil leaking 8v92. My brother and I ended up doing an in chasis rebuild on her .There was a sharp learning curve involved.We learned a lot.With the help of the right book and a borrowed injector timing tool the operation was a success.A lot of people bad mouth Detroits but I for one like those old 2 strokes.Never has a quad stroke sounded as good. hope you have a good out come. :usa
Could be worse... I have a 8.2 "Fuel Pincher" in the old farm truck. Gonna drive her 'till she gives in. Then re-power with ???.
I havent done anything on the truck in the last 2 weeks. I am planning on going back to it this weekend. Freedom digger where did you get your rebuild kit from? How long did it take you to do the inframe?
Rebuild Xcavate I purchased most of my parts from the local NAPA parts store .I am lucky to have a real parts man working there not just a keyboard puncher:bash. He actually blew the dust off this thing called a book and found most of what I needed.Everything else came from Alantic Detroit.The pistons and liners in my motor were in good shape so after we pulled the liners we broke the glaze with a hone and reringed the pistons.We did vacumn check the wafers on the sides of the pistons and then turned them all upside down and filled them with diesel to check for any leaks. let me tell you a few thing that I learned thing that I didn't know that might make me look dumb ointhead.first off you have to pull the liner as you can't put the pistons back in from the top.Second you can't use a ring compressor you need an installation bucket that sets on the bottom of the liner into which you push the piston into as it goes down the taper the rings are compressed and it will slide right into the liner.We found out a couple of things the hard way here to.If the expander ring overlaps at all you will break oil rings(we broke two sets here)We lost a lot of time here trying to figure out what the heck we were doing wrong.My brother came up with an idea that worked great.before we put to oil rings over the expander we put a drop of super glue on the end of the expander an let it dry then installed the oil rings.This trick worked great .Also don't use motor oil to lube things up.Buy a bottle of STP you won't belive how slippery that stuff is.When it came time to set the overhead I had a friends father who used to work on them a lot walk us through it.With a good set of feeler gauges and the right timing tool it wasn't the rocket science that we had feared. We had about four nights after work and one weekend into the project. If I can help any more give me a shout If you need to you can drop me an e-mail and I can give you my phone number.Hope You have good luck.:usa
What did the problem turn out to be with your motor?