Hi all - first post. I'm landowner who wants to move up from a CUT/backhoe to a bigger machine, and contemplating buying an older Case machine. I would say I'm a competent overall auto mechanic/not too scared of fixing stuff, but not familiar with these big guys. That said, I am nervous about sinking tons of money into a machine, so I'm weighing my options and trying to properly consider the risks versus the glory and fun of such a project. But ultimately I need to move a lot of dirt. I've read a lot of threads here and elsewhere, related to the "which old TLB to buy", and I am mostly sure I have it down to a Case 580 C through E (tho maybe CAT 416). That said, I'm not sure if I need 4wd, but of course I want it, but I appreciate it is another thing to break/spend big bucks on. So my question is, in order to minimize risk (and perhaps open up new buying opportunities) - is it possible and/or straight forward to disable and isolate the 4wd system it and fully operate the machine as a 2wd (i.e. operate for an extended period digging, not just limp back for repairs)? I'm thinking like you might do for a truck - remove axle/drive shafts to isolate the diff. Maybe in this case removing drive shafts/planetary unit? Could I do it laying in the dirt in the woods while getting attacked by mosquitoes? I looked an exploded 4wd diagram, and it seems possible, but then again, everything is easy when looking at a shop diagrams. Thanks for any insight. Don Edit: also, same question for the Cat 416. These are the second contenders in my consideration.
I would say it's straight forward and possible to disable most front axle issues. If you're looking at older backhoes like that, I would look for what's in good condition and priced right locally, Case, Cat, Deere, Ford/NH, JCB. All make good backhoes and the condition, price, closeness of the one you find matters more than brand. Then there's the whole discussion of 4wd vs 2wd, a lot of older ones are 2wd, and you will get a lot more machine in 2wd for the same price. The loader is much less useful in soft or slippery conditions without 4wd, the backhoe works just as good.
Delmer pretty much nailed it. I will add this though, MOST of the problems with backhoes that you read about really have nothing to do with the 4wd system. I’m not saying you can’t have issues with the 4wd, but all in all they are few and far between imho. My feeling would be that if your CUT has 4wd, you’ll miss not having it in a full size machine. I don’t think it’s a deal breaker if you find a good 2wd machine, they are very capable. What are you planning on doing with the machine, what’s your property like, and what are your soils like?
If you’re planning on moving a lot of dirt you need 4 wheel drive. Had a 2 wheel drive and during almost half a year it was useless.
If the reason for disabling it is because of mechanical issues there is possibility it could be damaged further that it would need to be replaced. Maybe if the driveshaft, axels and ring-gear were be removed it could be used that way. I would never consider not repairing one for my own use.
Thanks all, great info to think about here. I appreciate the responses. I was focusing on the Case because there seem to be a lot of them and the consensus seems to be that they are relatively straight forward to work on with good parts prices/availability. There is a dealer 30 miles S of me, so presumably I could get parts (although it seems like everyone has representation within about 30 miles, except maybe NH). But these are mostly 2wd from what I am seeing in my price-range (sub-20k). But 4wd is one of those things...when you need it, you need it. Regarding the problems - that is good to hear. It's not very scientific, but in thinking about it, my reading of descriptions/problems with machines, those with problems haven't been attributed to 4wd. Usually things like "won't move" and "clicking in the rear end". Regarding what I want to do - I'm in New Hampshire, The Granite State, and I'm sitting on beautiful sandy gravel mixed with washing-machine sized boulders (with the occasional truck sized one thrown in). Pretty rolly terrain I would like to level. My primary objective is to clear (pull stumps) and level - moving hills to fill in low spots with the high ones. I do have a BH and 4wd on my CUT (BX24), and I am sure without it this machine would be very frustrating (or mostly useless, as below). My work plan was to use the hoe to cut down the high spots and break it up, then scoop them up and move to the new location. Maybe directly scoop from the openings, but I suppose 4wd would be necessary for this. Hmmm....that is what I was looking to do. Certainly mud-season would be a challenge, and from Dec through March things are likely frozen anyway...but waiting until June might be frustrating. Well, overall I think I'm swayed toward the 4wd. Unfortunately this makes the pool of contenders much smaller. But the reassurance that they could be disabled if necessary and perhaps many more months of usage is going to be worth the premium I think. Again, thanks for the input! Don
I had one without 4 wheel drive. I'll never have another. Four since have been 4 & I rarely go a day without using 4. For loader work 4 is a valuable option. Beware Case 580 K is USA built. 580 E & G are made in Europe & I consider them lesser machines. Other letters I'm less familiar with. I've had two Case 580K, A 580 Super N & John Deere 410 & 410C. I'm terribly disappointed with Deere & parts support, but delighted with Case.
If you're working off flat solid ground, even with snow, then you won't miss 4wd that much. Using the loader in soft ground becomes impossible with 2wd, because the wheels sink and there's not enough weight to pull them out. You can get unstuck with the bucket and backhoe, but you don't get anything moved climbing out of every hole with the backhoe.
Do you think this is a local issue - i.e. your Deere support/supplier is just no good, or something broader? I have also heard that Deere is more expensive for comparable parts (from my reading of these types of boards). The Deere 4x4s are a machine which I see fairly often (more Deere 4x4 than Case). Been here, with 4x4 on the CUT. Often evokes colorful language.
For anyone that doesn't know ; You do not have to go to a Case Construction Equipment dealer for parts. Any CNH Farm Equipment dealer has access to the the parts books and can get the parts.
And likewise, if you bring a part number to a JD farm dealer, they will sell you the parts if they have them. They will not look up industrial equipment, and some parts could be industrial only, and they can't get those.
Deere dealers have been closed. The system they call Nortrax is interested in supporting new machines. A fellow I work for sometimes bought 2.1 million in new machines in one purchase. He brags about how well they support his new still under warranty machines. I believe they no longer care about old machines or their owners.
I find an identical part can often be had from an agricultural dealer, but it is my problem to identify the part number. Mechanic I know was frustrated about a governor part he believed would work from another machine. When John Deere offered no help, he found a different machine that had the needed part. He was then able to order as a replacement for the unrelated machine. Also Conequip has been a great resource especially for Case equipment.
Seems like the parts-supply is a bit confusing...but I think I'm fortunate to have a bunch Case, JCB and Deere industrial within 30 minutes. But searching online for dears is a bit unclear. Anyway, this was a helpful thread - thanks for all the input. Between this discussion, and walking through the newly fallen snow on my property I'm now committed to finding a 4wd. I have a lot of "logging" work I could do, and this can be a good time to tackle that and a 4wd would surely make it much easier and quicker. Thanks again all.
Tire chains are essential in snow & frozen ground, make a two wheel drive go where 4 wouldn't, & keep you alive if working on a hillside. Two wheel drive or four you NEED chains.