I have a 931B that won't start. When I hit the starter button the smaller "pre-solenoid" clicks. But the main solenoid does nothing and makes no sound. I tried using a screwdriver to jump the contacts on the main solenoid. I get a small spark, but no noise and nothing happens. So I'm thinking the starter needs to come out. I've asked around, but mechanics are all busy and don't want to mess with it. So I'm pretty well stuck as far as I can tell. I have it in my farm shop on a concrete floor. But am not sure how to proceed from here. It looks like there's a belly pan (with a big hook on it) forward of the front axle. Do I remove that to get it out? Or do I need to remove the larger pan behind the front axle? I know you guys like serial numbers. So I attached pictures of both tags I found on the machine. Thnaks for any help you can offer.
The bolt on tow hook doesn't have to come off but the belly pan does. Belly pan has 2 bolts underneath at the back that come out first. Then are 3 bolts on each side you can reach through the tracks. These bolts have a spacer on them that fits in larger holes on the belly pan. Mine has the middle bolts broken off which isn't a big deal. The other 4 are using a nut threaded up to the bolt head for the spacer. I put a piece a piece of plywood under the machine and use a small floor jack to lower the belly pan and pull it out. The other thing is the front of the belly pan has a lip fits on top of the cross member between the track frames. You have to slide the belly pan back a couple inches for the front to drop down. Then you can lower it to pull it out. Starter comes out the bottom. You may need a stubby wrench to get the bolt close to frame out or a socket, extension and universal joint. It's a bit of a pain. I was able to use a stubby wrench and I think I had to slip another wrench on the open end of the stubby to get enough leverage. It's a 2 person job. Someone has to crawl underneath to hold it up while you take the bolts out or at least the top bolt. I'd suggest taking the easiest to access bolt out last. The starter is fairly heavy.
Dave, thanks for the response. I'm curious about what you said abut reaching the belly pan bolts through the side of the tracks. Looks to me like they all need to come out the bottom. (See attached picture) Also - It doesn't look like there's any room to slide it back. Looks to me like the belly pan is only about 1/8" from the cross member. Do you have to tilt it to get the front lip out?
Before jumping the gun have you done any testing? Do you own a digital multi meter? Could be a bad earth, resistance in wiring or isolation switch or flat battery.
Your pic. is of the hook mounting plate not the belly pan. It doesn't have to come off. If the hook had to come off you take the whole mounting assembly off not just the hook. The starter is much further back than the hook. The belly pan is on the other side of the cross member in your pic. That cross member is what it has to slide back from in order to come down.
Cliffy - Yes, I've done a lot of electrical testing. The only thing you mentioned that I have not checked is checking the ground. Dave - It looked to me like that front hook mounting plate went far enough back that I could reach over it to access the starter. So initially that's what I thought you meant. But I understand what you're saying. Haven't had time to check it out yet.
The starter is PIA!
I second that, 12 point wrench and one point move, flip wrench over, one point move, repeat a lot
Lots of pain and heartbreak.
I was able to get it with a stubby wrench. The shop that did the engine suggested getting a 12 point bolt.
Replaced my starter with the planetary gears with was lighter and also had a lot more room for the bolts
PAI - Pain - Heartbreak - You guys aren't very encouraging. (-:
The starter is easier with 2 people. The 1 bolt close to the frame is tricky. PIA pain in the ***.
Just for the hell of it I pulled the battery tray out. The ground cable was bolted into a big metal plate below and in front of the tray. I removed the bolt and cleaned the cable connector with a wire brush. Then I used a grinder to get the area around the ground bolt down to bare metal. I set the battery back in temporarily and hooked the cables back up. Nothing changed. The little solenoid clicks. The big one does not, even if I jump the terminals with a screwdriver. If I use a screwdriver to jump from the big terminal on the solenoid to the big one on the starter, I get a few sparks. (Not a lot) The starter does not make any noise. So I think dropping the belly pan is in my future. I found a starter here: New Starter Fits Caterpillar Track Loader 931 931B 931C 935B 4N0241 0280005960 17103, 17103*2, Starter, 028000-3650, 4N0241, 9X0354, 0280003650, 0280005960, 0280005961 www.rareelectrical.com Any reason to think that's not the best route to go? I assume an OEM starter from a dealer would be exorbitantly expensive.
See if the starter and/or solenoid can be fixed before throwing money away you don't need to. Don't automatically condemn it.
Nearest starter repair place I know of is an hour away. If their shop rate is $80 per hour it wouldn't take much to exceed the cost of a new starter.
Had my starter checked and guy said it look and ran fine. The only issue is he could not load test it. He used a 2x4 and forced it against the gear and it didn't slow down After reinstalling and it still would not crank the motor fast enough, I replaced with the lighter one. Still doing good today
$80/hr. is really cheap. When I took my truck for a recall to update the emissions computer there was a sign on the wall. Shop rate is $182/hr.!!! Your starter might be fine and just need a new solenoid. At least have it looked it before spending money you may not have to. Fixing your starter could be a lot less than a new starter. If it's totally shot they can probably tell pretty quick.
I got the belly pan and starter off. You guys didn't warn me about how bad the belly pan would smell. It had 2" of oil-soaked half rotten stuff in it. The starter turned out to be an OEM CAT one. So I had it sent to a rebuilder in St. Louis.
All bets are off when it comes to belly pans. Sometimes you find tools or bolts indicated someone was working on it in the past.
Figured I'd do a quick update. I took the starter to the local NAPA. They said they'd send it to a rebuilder in St. Louis. A month later I called to ask if there was any news. They had forgotten who the starter belonged to, so it as just lying in the back of the store. It cost $375 to have it rebuilt. Before I disconnected the wires I marked them with colored zip ties and took pictures. I used the pictures on my phone to make sure I got everything hooked up right. (See attached) I hit the starter button to see if it would turn over. I was surprised when the engine started up almost instantly. I've already had it out working. It's good to have it running again. Thanks to all of you who helped.
You should experience taking off a belly pan on a land fill machine