running good and no smoke but at idle and beginning of the day oil will be perfect. After running hard for 4-5 hours it’ll be off the stick or almost. Re up the oil to the line for warm and idle and it’ll last the rest of the day. Looked under the belly and noticed some dripping. Gonna drop the pan soon. Also noticed this on the right side when doing a walk around. Also when I was under her I’m seeing dark mud spot under both drives..seals? Any clues on where to start looking for the oil consumption before I can drop the belly pan?
Well IMO an external engine oil leak may well be easier to sort out than an internal one, so I'd be dropping the belly guards, get everything cleaned out and see what you can find. CAUTION: A belly guard full of packed material is going to be HEAVY. Be careful when removing. The dark stains on the final look like leaking Duo-Cone seals. Deep joy ...........
Just curious, is this something new, the engine oil part, or has it been doing this for weeks or months? Never was "lucky" enough to deal with those Duo-Cone seals on a track machine, just wheel loaders and smaller haul trucks. But I'm thinking as Nige says "Deep Joy" is not a good thing!
If I remember right those belly pans are two or three piece pans so that will help. As far as the finals leaking, I've had them leak from sitting long periods of time. Before I dug into the finals (the deep joy Nige speaks of) I'd check levels and monitor. Personally I can tolerate a little leakage in a final verses a reseal. Monitor is imperative if you chose this route.
That’s the advice I was hoping for. I just noticed it so I’ll start checking and see how fast of a leak I’m getting. I’ll report back about the belly pan or where I can find that leak from the engine. I was hoping there was some blocked vent or something simple but it never is, is it. Thanks guys.
Thinking a bit more about the leaks from the finals, it may simply be the Duo-Cone seals bedding in again after the machine was stopped for so long before you bought it. Well worth draining the oil and refilling with new (correct type & viscosity) oil to make sure the levels are good for now, and monitor the situation as you use the machine. Here is the original thread relating to this same machine ......... HeavyEquipmentForums
"Deep Joy"....... - Professor Stanley Unwin, take a bow......... http://www.stanleyunwin.com/unwinese.htm
Looks like the oil on the final drive is running down from up top side where you took the picture. Are you loosing engine oil or trans oil
Not a bad idea. I can recall a couple time we had a 769C that would develop a wheel seal leak over the winter from sitting. Then as they were in to big a rush to start production in the spring to let me fix the leak they put truck to work as is, a few days running and the wetness dried up.
I’m losing engine oil. All other fluids are right where they should be after 25+ hrs work. The finals have the same dark spots on the inside of the tracks, both sides. I’m gonna donloke suggested and too fluid off, and monitor ever hour or so to measure loss. My biggest concern is the engine oil lose. It supposedly had a rebuild xx number of hours ago....it starts and runs like it did though. Fires right up, no smoke other than normal diesel spool up, and doesn’t miss a beat. It’s been working and in a field and obviously brand new to me so I haven’t had time to really get to know it. Belly pan off here soon but gonna take some of the cowl off and see if I can spot something. Looks dry inside when I check the oil though.
How much blow by? If it’s burning that much you should be able to smell it.
Very little from what I can tell, I’m just used to checking it with the oil cap on a diesel truck, any different checking it on this?
That or the crankcase breather tube. Pull the pan(s) and see if you have a leak.
Yours will have a Draft Pipe on it, with the oil cap off may not visualize a quantity of blowby as will also be passing thru to the pans. Would also check the Turbo discharge piping Internally next chance you get, also from sitting the Turbo seals may be weeping/puking more when initially started and cold.
Does your dipstick have markings on only one side or both..? If it has MIN/MAX markings on both one side will say "ENGINE STOPPED - OIL COLD" and the other side something like "ENGINE AT LOW IDLE WITH WARM OIL".
Like Nige says need to be sure you are checking oil level the proper way on an engine, forget if you posted the S/N but here's a generic 955 Maintenance manual out take: (3)Engine Crankcase 1. Measure oil level with machine on level ground and transmission safety set. Before starting, oil level must be in SAFE STARTING RANGE on ENGINE STOPPED side of dipstick. 2. With engine running and oil warm, maintain oil level between the ADD and FULL marks on the ENGINE RUNNING side of dipstick.
I would look at the turbo pull the he cross over pipe from the turbo to the head and see if it is oily
Yes it has the dual sided stick and I’ve been checking it the way the manual says. I wish I had a better place to pull this belly pan off. It’s in a field and not to easy to get jacks under. I’m gonna mess with it next week and see what I find. I really appreciate the feedback!
Good on that, not trying to point fingers just want to be sure things are being done right. Have seen too many self inflicted problems over the years to not try to be 110% sure the basics are being done right!
My brother was actually reading it wrong till I pointed it out. But then at the end of the day it turned out it was still consuming oil. We’ll get it stripped down a bit and take a peek on Tuesday or Wed. I’m praying it’s something small or small enough to finish this basement dig, so another 15 hrs of run time.
The "ENGINE STOPPED" side of the stick is no more than a method of ensuring the engine has sufficient oil in it to be safe to start. The more reliable method of determining the correct oil level is to use the other side of the stick with the oil at operating temperature and the engine idling. An incorrectly-read dipstick could lead to an engine being over-filled with oil that might result in external leaks, which is what I think KSH was driving at above .......
Put wood blocking up close to the belly pan before unbolting it. Then start the loader and drive away from the pan, then the clean out is fairly easy.
Well just got off the phone with him and he never checked the oil while running. He read the stick side that said warm but he did it with engine off and said it would be low or off the stick. Then he would add oil. I called him an idiot again. With it not running could that be why it was off the stick? Seems logical since that’s literally what the stick says to do ♂️. If it was overfilled would it just puke out the vent? That’s good advice with the wood blocking. How hard is it lining back up to get the bolts in?
If the belly guards are full of material (as they usually are) the hard part is removing them without getting crushed - which is a real danger believe me. Once they have been off and cleaned to get them back up again is a much easier task, so you don't necessarily have to get things lined up perfectly in order to get the guards back up again.
I use chains and come-alongs over top of the tracks to lower belly pans on dozer machines. install chains, snug them up, remove bolts(or nuts) and lower them out. then move machine away. when lifting them back up, some wiggling and prying will be necessary to lift them evenly into place and line up the holes. jacks can topple and I feel that the come-alongs are safer. chain type come-alongs are best but good quality cable types will work. you don't want to be under a belly pan or close to it if it falls inadvertantly
Come-longs definitely ! Guide bolts, 2 or 4 long ones with the heads cut off make lining it up a lot easier.
I use an old floor jack with a home made table to spread the load out(Less tippy), the guide bolt/stud/dowel maneuver I use a LOT.
That’s great advice! Guide bolts and chains sounds like my plan of action. Has anyone seen the difference commonly seen on a dipstick running at idle vs hot engine and off?
Nothing like 1st hand info.......... so I walked into the workshop and took photos of a dipstick from one of our engines. As you can see there is a difference of approximately 2" between the two "FULL" marks. So if somebody filled to the full mark on the "ENGINE RUNNING" side of the stick while the engine was stopped the oil level would be about 2" too high. The distance between the two FULL lines on your dipstick will be different I am certain. However the principle remains the same.
Nige, thanks for taking the time with the photos. I’m sure he overfilled it and that’s where the puking oil has come from. Now I gotta find out if it cause any damage or just corrected itself. How big of a difference could be on the dipstick between running at idle and not running but a hot engine? Not enough to have no oil on the stick but if the engine had been running it show middle or at full?
On that particular dipstick in my photos above - 2" On your 955 dipstick - Dunno - whatever the measurement is between the FULL marks one one side of the stick and the other. Will the overfilling have done any damage..? I would not think so.
One thought or two might be if the belly pan is chuck full the vent pipe might be restricted enough to where the oil is not draining back to pan fast enough while running. Next if oil level is too high the crank could whip it up enough to cause it to foam and that is not good for bearings. I recall being told there were some Cummins engine that would take out a bearing fast if run a couple inches high on oil. Not sure if that was the 903 or the 555. So I am thinking first order is to get off the belly pans and clean out things good and see if or what is leaking. Strongly suggest anti-seeze on belly pan bolts, make getting them of the next time much nicer job. Also make it a standard part of maintenance to wash them out regularly, depending on work conditions might not need removing every time but at the least once a year drop and clean very good so hoses and such can be inspected. It will not only help the machine run cooler but when repairs are needed down there it will be much easier and faster work.
90nuthins could not take high oil levels
No one mentioned the high fire hazard of running oil soaked debris in the belly pans. That's just asking for trouble.
A good point. Especially as the new owner has never had the belly pans down since he bought the machine. Who knows what other flammable material might be in there from year ago..?
I had considered then my aging mind got distracted again Pans on my crawler were packed tight Would have been a spectacular fire
I picture it being like a peat bog fire or underground coal fire.
Peat bog fire huh? Ha, I’ll have that pan dropped and cleaned and we’ll track this down. As I’m looking at doing a filter and fluid service at the same time I’m crawling around it, where is everyone getting their fluids for Hydrualics, Eng Oil, Trans, and Final drives? I looked up the past recommendations on weights for each but not sure the best place to get the fluids that are CAT comparable. Thanks as usual!
I had no say in the source of fluids at the quarry, that was a corporate thing from down in Texas, last I knew they were still using ExxonMobil.
Guess I’m meaning locally. I’ve got a Wahyne CAT near by but was hoping Tractor Supply or NAPA would have the fluids. I know hydrualics can be touchy with different types.
after you clean the debris out of the belly pans, you may be surprised at what you may find mixed in with the dirt. items such as bolts, hose clamps, wrenches, sockets etc. it can be like an archeological find lol
Whomever you buy fluids from use Name Brand, Good Quality and definite Spec qualified lubricants. Cat still offers oil sample kits can have determinations of levels of contaminants, issues coming up, wear items failing etc.
You don't have to buy Cat fluids but try to buy as good quality as you can afford. Same goes for filters. Good quality oil & filters are the cheapest insurance policy you will ever buy for a machine. Often the Cat Parts Dept has offers on fluids & filters. You don't know unless you ask. Fluids from NAPA & Tractor Supply are one step above buying from "Joe Blow's Gas & Groceries" IMO.
So if it’s not a CAT dealer, and I asked you to go grab some hydraulic fluid and transmission oil, where is your truck going?
I go to a Lubricants/Fuel distributor locally that I can buy bulk quantities. Warrenton Oil CO, they can get most any name brand for me at a slight mark up, I still have to fetch at their warehouse but not far.
Anyone from the Louisville area?
Seems like it would be easy to just open the phone book if they still have them down there and look under oils. Just a quick Google finds this outfit: http://www.apollooil.com/store/main.aspx?p=categoryBody&c=COOF Not sure what others think of Castrol or Shell but we used Castrol in the equipment at the quarry for several years and can't recall any lubrication related problems with any of the equipment.
Not used much Castrol but never had issues when did use it. I still like Shell and Chevron products, been told Rotella is changed and Delo is now quite different, did NOT need to hear reformulating.
Half way through getting the belly plate off. Bone dry under the engine plates. Can anyone tell me what size the final drive fill hole nuts are? I’ve got nothing that big, must be about two inches. Here is a pic. Any idea what I could use in lieu of a drive that big.
One more thing on checking the oil. Make sure the engine is warm when checking it running. I like to do it at operating temp. One of my guys would start it up and check the running right away. Well the oil is cold and all of it doesn't run down to the pan like a warm engine. I had some machines a gallon overfilled because of this. Also like Nige says don't fill it right to the top of the engine stopped marks either. Those just show there's enough oil to run it. We did an oil change once and filled to the top mark that engine was 2 gallons over.
What can I say other than if you are going to play with big boy toys you need to get big boy tools! As for the size, don't you have a ruler or tape measure some place?
Fair enough, I deserved that one. Got the pan off and it was a mess. Ran it and the only thing I could see drip a bit was the plug/nut here.
Plug appears loose, gasket not seated as CAN see it. Should be to the flywheel area so not so much issue. Would certainly pull the intake piping off turbo to engine and see if oil tracked, a turbo can deliver quite a bit and not be enough to cause running issues.
Agreed. However worth putting right while you are in there. Also a good clean with some degreaser to remove all the oil residue. Maybe now is the time to set the oil level correct (simply somewhere between the ADD and FULL marks) on the Engine Idling side of the stick with the engine actually running and oil at normal operating temperature. Run the engine with the belly guards off (maybe even some light work on good ground) and see where the oil you saw before is actually coming from...? Based on what the OP has spoken regarding the way his brother was checking the oil level in the past I would be hopeful that the engine was simply overfilled and so has been puking the extra out from various orifices. Good points made by other BTW regarding most engines having a "sweet spot" on the dip stick. Fill the oil above that and the engine will just puke out the extra until the oil level gets back to where it wants to be.
Agree on leaving the pans off and working to be sure about there being any leaks. Much easier to see and fix now while it's open and hopefully clean up in there!
Can anyone point me in the right direction for what that plug and gasket is called? I looked on SIS and I’m not seeing it for the flywheel.
This one you mean..? #29 is the gasket - Part Number 0L-1124. Interesting thing is that #27 P/N 3B-4626 is listed as a "cotter pin". Is this plug supposed to be some sort of breather to allow crap to drain out of the flywheel housing..? Have a closer look. Is there a hole in the middle of the plug..?
In the middle is what looks Like or I thought was a 3/4” drive insert for tightening it. I’ll have to get under again but it looks like a 2” plug screwed into the housing with a square hole in the middle.
Look carefully in the bottom of the square hole, or try poking it with a welding rod. Is there a round hole maybe around 3/16" diameter in the centre..? Come to think of it we never got the S/N of this machine. I could be looking at the wrong S/N range of 85J........
Hate to be a bit bitchy on that subject but...... two separate threads about one machine one going to 44 messages and one (this one) now hitting 60 messages and still no serial number! Like they say garbage in garbage out. Only getting half the information make it frustrating to try and give an accurate answer to a question. It's Like I often had to tell one boss "Just because the driver is staring at a dogs butt does not mean it's the same as the one over there!" And I don't care if the numbers and letters on the hood match if the numbers on that little tag on the frame are not right you are just asking to get bit at some point!