I have Cat 980M with a C13, roughly 10k hours on it, in frame rebuild done roughly 2000hrs ago The oil pan seal keeps blowing out right at the same spot just near the starter motor We have removed the oil pan and resealed it 4 times now, (new gasket and correct glue as per sis every time) Checked for cracks on the pan, We have checked the blow-by with correct tooling, it is all within spec. No other oil leaks around the engine, Crankcase filter has been changed every time when the pan gasket was changed No codes, Anything else I could be checking?
What contact cement are you using?
Permatex Right stuff gasket maker
Have you checked the blow out area on the pan for flatness?
Second that. Also please post a Serial Number so that I can look up the oil pan installation procedure which will specify the recommended sealant to use. Also please can you confirm that you are using an OEM oil pan gasket/seal and the Part Number.
Does Cat still sell that old green contact cement. I can’t remember the part number but that stuff was fantastic.
MK220432 Yes checked for flatness,
No they don't, more's the pity. However anyone foolish enough to use Cat Green on both sides of a gasket would be roundly cursed by the person who had to remove it the next time..!
Some silicones will kick out a gasket as fast as can be. Need to be very carefull near joints of gasket for how much is applied, as too much will kick it out like a ball bearing. I worked a lot on Komatsu engine blocks and I use to put little dots of High Temperature Red with the tube on the gasket and then joined them with my finger and let dry. It always looked like a skinny raised bead down the center of the gasket. They resisted kicking out this way, but if just put it on skinny and wide, it liked to kick it out. The green Cat glue was great. Hard to get off though especially on aluminum. Simon C
Its all one gasket, no joins It's the thick rubber style with the locating holes and the rubber inserts for the bolt holes
Well according to the instructions I see the "sealant" (and I use that word advisedly) called for is Cat 4C-9614 silicone sealant. Cat don't market sealants, etc, any more so it crosses to Loctite SuperFlex 596 High Temp RTV Silicone Adhesive - Red. Note the word "adhesive" in the title. How that squares with the Permatex product you are using I'm afraid I have no idea. This.............
I think that the Permatex Right Stuff may be part or all of the problem. I realize that there are joints from front cover to the block as well as the joints at the back end, but the silicone would have to be probably very minimal to prevent kick out. Have worked on same style gasket on some cummins engines and still finickity. Keep us posted. Simon C
Superflex 596 Red is all that I use for these applications. Just as Nige's post above stated. It has worked best for me as being partly tacky and the block surface wiped with Brakleen seconds before putting together. Simon C
You know i think the nearest Loctite equivalent to that might just be Loctite 598 Black High Performance RTV Silicone Gasket Maker. Maybe as Simon already alluded the issue here is the difference between a "gasket maker" and an "adhesive".?
Worked 6 months ago on an Isuzu 4 cylinder generator that had to have head gasket done. That Loctite 598 Black was what I had to use between the Head and the rocker housing as it does not have a gasket. I was a bit nervous about it, but it worked and is bone dry after quite some time. Wiped perfectly clean with brakleen first before bolting up. Simon C
Thank you for the info I will double check all the work orders to make sure we have used the correct stuff Will post back with an answer
Have you replaced the rubber isolator spacers on the pan bolts. If you don’t it won’t put the proper crush on the rubber gasket. You only need sealant where the front and rear housing join to the block.
Not familiar with this engine but when I read "thick rubber gasket" and "silicone sealant/adhesive" I have to wonder if the problem is too thick a coat of the silicone acting like a lubricant. Forget what it was on but seem to recall a rubber/cork gasket popping out as the fasteners were tightened on some assembly years ago. Also have to wonder about the shop temperature, could it be too cold for sealant to set fast enough? Also just had a flash back to a time one of the guys in the shop used NAPA High-Tack spray gasket adhesive to install rubber valve cover gaskets on a Mack engine. As soon as engine got up to temperature the gaskets slid out from under the covers. Removed the covers and cleaned them and gaskets with carb cleaner and then used that nasty green Cat cement on one side to put them back on. Never leaked after that.
Yes all new isolators Yes only Sealant was used front and rear
I always hated when I ran into engines that had been assembled with that Green. I've had to chisel and beat parts apart and spend hours trying to remove it from parts. Even the best razor blade scrapers were no match for long. It sucks when you run into it on a teardown...........but its priceless on an assembly.
I'm stumped at this point. Maybe have a couple of shots before the next assembly.........and pray!
I’m still trying to visualize how that thick rubber gasket with an internal stiffener rib could blow out. Is the gasket actually pushed completely out or just leaking. Is it the gasket or is it the rubber block plug behind the starter that’s leaking. There should be 3 of the plugs in the block at the possible dipstick locations. They always leak with age. Just like some mechanics I know.
From what I can see, No oil is coming from the starter motor, The rubber gasket isn't pushed out Looks like it's just leaking
If that is the case then it would seem to point the finger at the sealant. Question: When it appears does the leak always coincide with a location where the sealant was used (where front and rear housings meet the block) or is it somewhere else entirely.? Are you dealing with one leak or multiple ones.?
Same spot Everytime Only one leak Im going to pull the oil pan again to double and triple check everything
In the area where the sealant was applied or somewhere else.?
Make sure you don't have a crack in the pan there. It may open up a bit when you torque the bolts down
I'm not talking about starter rubber plugs I mean block plugs.
Good point Mobiltech. I’ve seen guys chase leaks when all along it was those plugs.
Pull oil pan again The correct loctite 598 was used in the last assembly with new seal installed as per sis. From what I can see is that the gasket for the rear main seal is leaking,
Sorry but the correct sealant/adhesive is Cat 4C9614 or Loctite 596, not 598. 598 is a gasket maker designed for use in applications where no gasket is used. However from your desription of the leak the point may be moot.
I'm with you on using the correct adhesive But the leak is the same spot Everytime, If the incorrect adhesive was used it would have leaked in all the spots where it was used.
"Right Stuff" is the real problem. Had the same issue on a Mack 300 with rocker box covers. Pushed the gaskets out before it left the shop. "Right Stuff" is to be used Without a gasket. Myself, anymore, I just use anaerobic sealant, just a thin smear on each side. Like this. Never a comeback.
Removed pan again and used loctite 596 Installed as per sis Still leaks in the same spot, found the gasket that holds the rear main seal for the rear of the engine. Thanks everyone for the help