Liebherr has obviously joined the high drive club with this this new machine, obviously a D10 contender w, hydrostatic drive. Does any of you guys have any experience with the bigger Liebherrs?
Yair . . . I think there is another thread on this somewhere . . . anyone care to comment as to the advantage of a hydrostatic transmission on large machines like this? I am old school and think about whole of life production and running costs . . . ease of operation and operator comfort would be of secondary consideration. Fair enough, I realise "ease of operation" and "operator comfort" would add some what to potential production but the complexity and maintenance issues of a hydrostatic machine such as this must be considerable. I can (and have) stripped down large power-shift transmissions literally underneath a gum tree . . . I imagine a dedicated clean room would be needed to work on systems such as this. As I say, the rock and dirt remain the same but the ways we choose to move it get more complex all the time. Cheers.
The first thing that comes to mind regarding this particular machine is where is the dealership network to back it up..?
No, I will now volunteer to be the North American test driver, and test track. I'll give it a good work out, report back on its performance. I'll give it a hard workout. There won't be any value left in the tractor, so never mind coming after it. I'll give you the test as I am incredibly generous. All I ask in return is a 1000 LB bag of Deer Plot seed. I understand this is an amazing offer, just understand that Caterpillar also wants my services. Resources won't provide the needs of both manufacturers.
Question is whether operator comfort is all that better on a machine like that. For me a part of operator comfort is feeling the machine and hearing the engine rev u p or down. On a machine like that the engine would be running at a fairly constant speed, making operation - well - boring.... But this one is probably more fuel efficient than Cat
A hydrostat drive on a machine this size makes me queasy... The cost of rebuilding hydros on a 750 Deere was bad enough, about 10k a side if memory is right. But a D10 size machine? Scary to consider. Even with the newest and best technology hydrostats are still questionable to me. The cooler on that thing must be huge.
Yair . . . RZucker and others. It seems I am not alone in having doubts. Production pushing in 45C heat will put anything to the test let alone a system that converts so much energy to heat. Nige's comments are interesting. I know nothing of this marque but it seems to me that to get sales of a new concept on a large capital item such as this they would need to offer some guarantee of production by offering a condition in the contract whereby they bear the cost of hiring in an equivalent item should the machine have undue down time or failure. Same thing with backup. Until the concept is proven I would have thought it reasonable the customer insist they maintain parts and technicians on the site. Cheers.
Doesn't Liebherr build an american machine for another american manufacturer?I thought it was John Deere.It may have been a while ago but my mind is failing I guess,somebody must remember it.Ron G
Scrub, mining-wise Liebherr have been up to now in the big end of the market and their normal MO when selling their large mining shovels is that the customer holds most of his own spares, Liebherr maintain a presence (from a single service tech to a team of people depending on how many shovels the customer has) on site as technical backup and Bob's your father's brother. Liebherr mining dealers tend to be little more than a brass plate on an office wall somewhere relatively near to the customer where someone answers the phone and relays messages back and forth between the customer and Liebherr. The problem is with a dozer that it's not a $10-20 million machine like a shovel, it will not have the maintenance priority of a prime loading tool, and therefore customers won't want to have everything on site. They will want a "full service" dealership with pretty much everything held by the dealer. I don't think that exists in Liebherr's world at this time ......
Yair . . . Gotcha Nige It seems an iffy way of doing business. Thanks for reply. Cheers.
Until recently the bigger John Deere dozers were just rebadged Liebherr. I think the same goes for the track loaders. The latest big Deere dozers LOOK like they´re all Deere made, but question is weather the drive train is still Liebherr.
605K, 655K, and 755K crawler loaders are John Deere designed and made in America. Deere used to buy the 950J and 1050J from Liebherr. 1050K is a clean sheet design by Deere, nothing on it is Liebherr, also made in America
I personally welcome that machine. I'm a fan of Liebherr equipment, I agree that after sales is lacking throughout the brand and taking onboard everyone's comments it's a start, they may fall with support but can only improve and in time, join the ranks of the heavy mining equipment suppliers.
If they fail with the product support then they fail. No ifs, buts, ands, or maybes..... they might just as well pack up and go home. Unfortunately my prior experience with arrogant Germans and Frenchmen in Liebherr's mining support sector was 100% negative. Bunch of cnuts IMO. Edit: I leave you with this thought. The Sales Department makes the first sale, the Service/Parts Departments make every sale after that one......
I agree with Nige about the those people! Catitude has nothing on them. As far as the juice drive goes it is working well lately in the smaller machines and I haven't seen any normal operational issues in medium hour ranges. My belief is that if it works on large excavators where the load factors are in the 85 to 95 percent ranges that it wouldn't work in a dozer in the sixty to eighty percent range. What I would be concerned about is being in a cab on top of all that hot high pressure oil when a hose bursts and something catches it on fire. It might make a flame thrower from WWII look like a birthday candle. I've seen that on a 988B loader and at least there was a full cab between the operator and the source.
I saw the same thing on a 992B, operator went out the front window. The fire was just behind the cab and the early ROPS had only a rear exit. Hot, atomized hydraulic fluid is an excellent fire fuel, totally destroyed that machine. Warped frame, cracked the transfer case housing, the only thing that really survived was the radiator and the front half of the engine. Most everything forward of the hinge was useable as spare parts for the others.
Me, too! I have never run a hydrostatic machine of that size. A lot of smaller ones, though. I find I grade best if I run it just like an old power shift, that is use the decel pedal to control the speed of the machine.
That's funny, that is exactly what I heard from the Detroit shop after M-B took over.
I have to say that the French were by far the worst of the two though. The problem was that the company is German so they do the design but the major mining excavator factory is located in Colmar, France, hence the presence of large numbers of cheese-eating surrender monkeys in the field....
BTW. I find it strange when I read the press release description of the machine, that they don´t mention one word abut it having a high drive configuration. Or suspended roller boogies. As if that´s some hush hush issue for them...... Maybe to disguise the fact that the track roller frames look like a copy-paste from the D10. Until now suspended rollers have only been seen on Cats and Komatsus
classic ))))
Now all we need is some of those "cheese eating surrender monkeys" to liven up this post! Bloody Limeys anyway. Just kidding gentlemen!:stirthepot I am of Scottish descent, born in Canada, and living in Idaho - a target for plenty of insults that I deserve - fire away!
excellent point.
I'm sure with England having beaten them in Paris tonight to win the Grand Slam for the 2016 Six Nations Championship season any of them who might be hanging around will be keeping their heads well and truly below the parapet .....
Touché!
Yair . . . Nice one Gentlemen!! . . . and I have, on occasion, been accused of going off topic!! (BIG GRIN) Cheers.
Didn't know that Liebherr has released a tractor of this size. I wonder how he will show up not only when using the blade?
Just by the way : none of you will call this men a surrender monkey and live to boast about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Foreign_Legion