I have tossed around the idea of having a fuel tank on my property to refuel my equipment.After talking with local authorities I've found out that I cannot have a fuel tank raised on a stand,like the ones commonly found on farms,but instead could have an above ground,double walled tank,or a single walled tank housed within a spill containment.Either would have to be set on a concrete pad with guard posts surrounding it.(there were also the distances too surrounding area structures that needed to be considered,and legal blah,blah,blah...) Assuming I'd be able to meet all legal responsibilities for a system,I would like to know from others that have these types of tanks if they are a cost effective alternative to fueling at a station.I am thinking about a 2000gal. above ground single wall tank,in a concrete spill containment,with a fuel pump unit attached.I use approx. 1500gal. diesel/month. Do you see enough savings in purchasing the fuel in bulk to pay for the tank and maintenance?If so,over how long?What is the minimum amount of fuel purchased to get a measurable discount on fuel price over area stations?(would 1500-2000gal be enough?)Have you had any unforeseen problems with your system,that should be considered before purchasing.(water contamination,fuel algae growth,stagnation,etc.) Thank you for any input.
You have a couple options buy a decomissioned fuel truck (cheapest) or buy a double walled fuel tank on a set of skids. We go by imperial gallons here a 2000 gallon tank which the loggers use costs about 7300 dollars Canadian to fill thats marked fuel mind you. Regular road tax fuel 8100 dollars Canadian to fill up. The contractors around here run 500-1500 imperial gallon tanks as they will go through that amount of fuel without it going bad. Around here you can get away with 500 imperial gallons (600 US gallons) in a single wall tank anything more than that you either need a double wall or a concrete tank farm. There are a few guys out there still using 1000 imperial gallon single wall tanks (grandfathered). Your biggest worry is if the single wall tank ever ruptured you will have a enviromental mess on your hands. If you do get a tank you want to have it so it will gravity feed you don't want to deal with pumps. The only way you are going to save buying in bulk is buying marked fuel and running it in your truck. Buying road taxable fuel you really don't save big buying in bulk its more for the convenience more than anything else. You can fill up the truck anytime you want. The problem you guys in the US have is the DOT gets on a power trip thinking they are GOD and will nail you heavy for running marked fuel. Around here the DOT doesn't check fuel they know better the construction industry provides the gov't alot of tax money that pays the DOTs wages. Anyhow your looking at a good chunk of money to buy a tank plus the price of fuel. Price out the price of a enviromental fuel tank then check out the price of fuel you will pay for buying it 1000 imperial gallons at a time.
As tempting as it is,I can't afford to run the dyed fuel.The fines are just too high.I have a 100gal transfer tank in the back of my pick-up I use to fuel the skid-steer.I fill that with dyed fuel.Last winter I fueled my dump truck with it while I was using it to plow snow.I had to run ALOT of un-dyed fuel through it after before I couldn't see anymore red in the tank.I've had my tanks checked twice in 14 years,so it's not often,but it does happen. The systems I've looked at have all been the type with the fuel tank set inside of a concrete holding tank that has slightly more capacity than the fuel tank itself.They also have had a cover(roof) to prevent the holding tank from filling with rain/snow.I've noticed quite a few of these systems around,and they look fairly simple.I haven't a clue what they go for though $. Paying for the tank filling wouldn't be an issue,I currently pay my fuel bill monthly anyway.I WOULD want enough of a discount on the fuel to pay for the tank in a reasonable amount of time.Perhaps 3-4 years?If not,and it was only for convenience,I'd continue fueling on the road.
It ought to be easy enough to calculate your savings vs. expenses, you've posted your variables here. All you need to do is assign values to them In my area there's currently a $.50 difference between on and off road fuel, and the only way off road fuel is available is by having your own storage tank. To be fair to yourself and this question, you must account for your time savings as well. That's the main reason I have a tank, 500 gallons. I was wasting far too much time at the gas stations, they are very difficult to maneuver with a truck and trailer, plus the other customers would get very impatient with me. My combination would take the space of 3 pump islands, so I'd need to wait for 3 islands to clear, then deal with the angry stares and horn honking of those who were upset that I had blocked a pump they could use. I replaced a gas powered mower with a diesel, and fuel both that and my machine here at the yard. I figure I'm saving at least an hour each time I do that, that's an hour I put towards the work day. So, to answer this question fairly, you should factor your time savings times your hourly rate as additional income and a positive input to your equation.
I would just put it in unless you got bad neighbors that will report you.
From what I have heard on other boards the DOT and your gov't really is finatical on giving people fines for running marked fuel. I doubt the DOT could do anything to the excavation contractors around here as every contractor runs marked fuel in their trucks. It would be pretty hard to fine one contractor when the 30-40 other contractors run it. Fuel expenses is a big thing the average excavation contractor with 2 gravel trucks and 2 excavators spends 5 to 10 grand in fuel per month thats marked fuel if they ran road tax fuel in the trucks is would be significantly more. On a average day a contractor will burn 100 imperal gallons of fuel just in couple excavators for a days worth of work thats 400 dollars worth of fuel. The local logging contractor his fuel bill is 20 grand a month he has about 20 machines operating. As for how much fuel you want to buy at one time is enough to run the truck for a month you start buying more that that then you run the risk of contaminated fuel from condensation. With the contractors around here with 500-1000 imperial gallon tanks they have the fuel supplier come and fill up or top up the tank every week or 2 weeks. If the fuel truck is in the area they will stop by and fill up the contractors tank. You do know the fuel coming out of the truck is unmarked and the dye is added afterwards into the customers tank. The driver of the truck has to keep track of how much marked fuel was delivered and how much unmarked fuel was delivered. Heres a link to a tank builder www.tidytanks.com/about.html
So, if they started with big fines for one or two or three, how long before the others would get worried enough to start using the taxed stuff?
I'm sure a few guys around here run red fuel, but I know I wouldn't. I've been stopped twice in three years and my fuel tanks were checked both times. I also buy my fuel via the consolidated fuel network (CFN) so there's a record of my fuel purchases. All an officer would have to do is go after my fuel and business records and I'd be sunk if I ran red fuel in my dump truck. I've often wondered if the guys running off road in their road vehicles bid projects lower because of their lower operating cost? It'd definitely make it tough for the guys playing by the rules.
Nope those DOT guys will find themselves at the bottom of a deep hole if they start trying to enforce the marked fuel law. Like I said the gov't starts messing around with trying to collect fuel tax which is pizz all compared to the income tax they collect from the contractors every year they will have a big revolt. The price of our road fuel for a imperial gallon in Canadian funds is 4.90 a gallon. The construction industry is booming right now its making the B.C. gov't billions in tax money. Your DOT is put the fear into you guys so bad I imagine you guys loose money than make money. From what I have been told from long haul truck drivers I know tell me your guys DOT in the US is a bunch of idiots on a EGO trip. What the DOT is the most concerned about here is brakes they will fine you if the brakes are way out of adjustment or if there are some major defects in your truck. Right now the gov't cut back on the DOT they cost more than they are worth a DOT inspector makes 30-40 dollars per hour they don't do anything. How much tax money does your gov't really make off of unmarked diesel fuel ? With our fuel there is a road tax, and a 14% sales tax. For every litre of fuel we buy it has a 8.2 cent road tax attached. If I bought 100 litres (27 US gal) of fuel at $1.08 per litre the gov't gets $ 8.20 cents in road tax then $ 15.25 in sales tax. So marked fuel is around 90 cents per litre the same 100 litres of fuel is 90.00 the gov't gets $ 12.60 in sales tax. When a contractor buys 1000 imperial gallons of diesel the gov't makes 567.00 dollars in sales tax if it was road taxed fuel they would have got another 369 dollars in road tax. That 369 dollars doesn't even pay for the wages of a DOT inspector for a couple days work.
Actually, it's not the Depeartment of Transportation that cares about the fuel taxes here, it's the Department of Revenue. and if I'm not mistaken, the fine can be as high as $25,000. That'll pay the salaries of a few revenue agents for a couple of days...
Talk about tax grab the maximum fine for running marked fuel here is 2000 dollars but you have to be a repeat offender. The first fine is 200 dollars if its your first time being caught. Like I said the DOT rarely checks fuel tanks for a 200 dollar fine its not worth the paper work it doesn't affect safety which is what the DOT is for not making the gov't money. When we have trucks here grossing 140,000lbs the DOT is there to make sure companies that run shoddy equipment is pulled off the road.
personally, i feel we should be paying the tax to build, maintain the roads that we use, abuse. roads could be built significantly lighter were it not for the truck traffic. a suburban gets 12 mpg....a tandem dump 5...we all know a loaded tandem dump weighing 50,000 + pounds requires a considerabley better road bed than the 6,000 lb. suburban..it'd be my guess that truck does more than the 2.5 times abuse than the suburban if you want to compare it on a mpg basis. face it, businesses don't pay tax anyway, end users do, any tax to us is nothing more than a cost of doing business, and will be passed on to our customers in the form of our rates, fees.
Dayexco,I have to agree with you on the idea of "running by the rules".I can think of examples where a segment of business is so wrought with rule breaking that eventually the rates fall to reflect that way of doing business as the "new" standard.I can see it in everything from logging,to cattle hauling,to grain hauling.The idea of running overweight as a necessary risk in doing business.I know that doesn't describe everyone doing those jobs,but I know it does many,and it makes it harder on the ones trying to fly right. I started this thread with the notions of buying a tank and filling it with taxed fuel.I hope I didn't give the impression that I'm looking to sneak dyed fuel into my road trucks.I like to save money wherever I can,and although it "is" tempting,it is not my objective. I use to have a run to Aberdeen SD(your state)a few years ago,and I can remember at the time the state had finally decide enough is enough with the trucks running overweight.They raised the fines by an enormous amount,and shortly after a truck was caught,I believe hauling a piece of heavy equipment on a lowboy,overweight by around 40,000lbs.I think the fine was $45,000.00. The driver appealed it,and I think it went all the way to the SD Supreme Court.The fine was upheld.That driver may have had to go out of business because of it. I don't want to be the "example" if they're clamping down on fuel taxes!
With all those rules and regulations you guys might aswell close up shop you can't do this you can't do that. I'am surprised your gov't hasn't made a regulation you can't fart at work between 8am to 5pm. The fuel tax on our fuel maybe goes 10% of it to our roads the rest goes into the politicians pockets. Our roads see trucks grossing 100,000-140,000lbs with B trains,lowbeds and logging trucks then you have dump trucks running at 58,000lbs. I think its about time you guys stand up for your rights and tell your gov't to stop making idiotic rules. Those fines you get for running marked fuel is tottally unnecessary its just a money grab so your guys buddy Bush can play war monger. Sorry companys shouldn't be penalized that much money for stupid things you guys talk about freedom in the US I don't see it. You guys have hours of service restrictions, you can't gross anymore than 80,000lbs etc.
it would be interesting to see the actual percentage of fuel/road tax that went into the actual construction, upkeep of our roads...i am confident though that more than 10% of it is going back into the roads. i would rather doubt that 90% of the fuel tax is going into politicians pockets. apparently the roads in canada are designed to carry heavier loads than they are here. there is a reason for load limits, to extend the life of the road. it's not fair to the taxpayers that a few contractors overload their trucks, beat up the roads, PLUS not pay any tax, leaving that bill to those who do haul legal loads, pay the tax.
Our roads here are pavement and they are built on solid B.C. ie rock. The trucks that gross 140,000lbs do stress the road but what can you do Super B trains are needed. A set of B trains spec'ed light enough is able to carry 45 ton of material. You have to remember there are more gasoline powered automobiles traveling on the highways that the gov't is collecting road tax off of. The fuel tax is just a big cash cow for the gov't Canadian or US it goes towards other things for you guys in the US it prolly goes towards miliary for Canadian it goes to buy the politicians stuff they want. If the fuel taxes actually did go towards fixing our roads the roads wouldn't be full of potholes and we wouldn't have roads that are too small to handle the traffic on them.
If I burned a couple thousand gallons a fuel a month, I'd probably set up a tank and pump on site. The ease of use would make it worth it as long as didn't cost more money in the long run. You could essentially set up a fuel and lube island so everything is handy and ready to go when you pull through. Heres a couple of tank companies and they have ready to go tank and pump setups. Tanks direct , Highland tank and Booth enterprises . Btw, I didn't get the impression you wanted to run off road fuel on the road. I also believe in playing by the rules and just pass the cost of business to the customer.
When you do set up a fuel tank in your yard you want it to look like there is nothing there. It keeps the fuel theives out of your yard it also keeps the enviromental inspector out of your yard. Once you spark the interest of the enviromental inspectors they start searching your property for oil spills and other no no's. If they find something they will make you dig up all the contaminated soil and the rest of the ground around the area has to be tested. Trust me you don't want the enviroment guys around you will be looking at a big bill for site clean up.
We have an opportunity to do that every 4 years.
We are the same here in Canada but trucking companies etc stand up to the gov't to prevent them from making completely stupid rules. Those fines you guys can face for running marked fuel is really stupid You gov't takes income tax off of you guys more jobs you can do more income tax they make. The cost for you guys to operate is eating into your profits plus it makes the customer pay alot more. If there wasn't industries there would be no economy who in the h*ll pays for the politicians wages the people do. The gov't is just being frigging greedy trying to squeeze every last cent out of the money you are trying to make. What are you guys paying for marked fuel compared to regular fuel ?
In my area there is a $.50/gallon difference between off road and highway diesel.
i agree that there are many more cars on the highways, but....as i stated earlier, the amount of damage they do to the road grade is minimal if any compared to what a legally loaded or overweight truck does. that's why i think it only fair that we pay for the use/abuse that we do to that surface, and pass that cost onto our customers. they are the ones benefitting from it. i really don't understand the thought that it's an additional tax on us, it's a cost of business that we must pass on to our customers. and i truly feel it unfair that there are those who are using our highway system without paying ANY road tax. yes, maybe the sales tax, but not the road tax. i can't understand why somebody would expect to use the road, and not pay the tax to build or maintain it.
Have any of you looked into a used fuel truck. seperate tanks, pump, movable from site to site, come is any size. only thing aditional you may need is a tanker indorcement on your CDL. Just seems to be a natural to me.
we run 2-200 sized excavators and 1-3 yd loader per pipe crew. one excavator to dig, one to compact. each crew has a 500 gal. round fuel tank, with an enclosed "skid" for it, and we move it from job to job on either gooseneck of lowboy, or on our skid steer trailer. we'll wait til fuel tank is about empty, and our fuel supplier will come fill the machines and the tank at the same time. here in south dakota, if the tank of 500 gals or less is setting on a trailer, it is considered "mobile"....meaning we don't have to have the spill containment apparatus around it...so, in off season when tanks are back at shop, we have several old car trailers we bought cheap at auction sales for 3-$400.....and let them sit on them while they're at the shop
The same law applies here but our tanks are 500 imperial gallons you don't need a double wall tank or a containment system. Most 500 gallon tanks the contractors have are on skids or some kind of stand. A 500 gallon tank is expensive enough to fill up :eek2
A few other things to consider. Convenience, time, cost of labor (depending how you are filling up currently). Additionally, especially in the north you will be able to save on fuel costs due the higher cost of #1 fuel by treating your own fuel.
Wish it worked out that way here. It is supposed to be like that. But never really is. Like today filled my transfer tank at 1 place for 2.499 but up street 200 yards on road fuel is 2.539. Where I like to get my off road it is 2.359. But for the little savings it wasn't worth the trip today.
Just a FYI i hav a 500 gal tank in my yard for my trucks and equipment that gets filled twice a week. I inquired about getting a larger tank and my fuel supplier told me that if i have anything larger than a 500 gal tank there is a lot more hoops to jump through w/ local and fed gov everytime it gets filled. Don;t know how much truth there is to it but thought id pass it along Brian