I have a 1970 cat 941 track loader S/N 80H2365 and have a ? about the bevel gear/steering clutch housing. OK my question are (1) are the steering clutches wet or dry? (2) i am draining the bevel gear/steering clutch housing, how many drain plugs does it have? i have removed the big center plug and three 1/2 drain plugs. I see a bolt/ plug one on each side under wear the steering clutches would be. Are these drain plugs or something else? I mean like a anchor for the brake bands etc? don't want to take them out if i have to. (3) looks like somebody had 80w/90 gear oil in it last time. how much damage has been done. I think my brakes are shot because i found lots of what looks like brake materiel in the oil. also my loader got to wear it if you tried to stop it with the center brake peddle, the loader didn't want to stop that great. so i think the brake lining are shot or gone. now though the track loader pulls/turns fine under full power pushing a load so i think the steering clutches are fine for now. but want to get your guys thought on that. i will tear into the steering clutches etc next spring and see all whats worn out. thanks Bobby
Yair . . . mopar65 . I am not familiar with your machine but various makes of steering clutch tractors had a bolt with locknut to jack the brake band up from the bottom of the housing. Cheers.
I think they are wet clutches. Take out the plugs under the steering clutches to be sure. Any dry clutch usually has a bolt with a lock nut sticking out of the bottom of the case. This is to support the brake band. You should put back in 30 TDTO or TO4 the same oil you use in the trans. Later Bob
I think they are wet clutches for a pedal steer, and dry for a lever steer machine
thanks for the info guys. mine does have peddle steer. for now i am going to put in cat specified TO-2 oil. then run it to operating temp then drain the TO-2 oil and put the TDTO TO4 oil. mine looks like a bolt with a sealing washer. i did get oil out of the 1/2 inch pipe plug holes. if its not raining tomorrow i will take a pic of the bolt i am talking about. anybody care to guess about my brake band question? thanks for all the help guys.
Standard brakes on 80H2365 would be dry and have the brake band support bolt underneath the tractor. Pedal steer option came with wet brakes and no support bolt under the brake band. If you have the support bolt could be the pedal steer option was added later. Need to sort that out as brake linings are different between the two.
Never have done it but some of the old dry clutch machines were changed over to wet don't remember all there was to it but I think you had to do some welding and seal work , not sure what all was involved but that's what you might have but if that's dry clutches and brakes you don't want oil in there. If they are dry you can still get oil in there if the seals are leaking from the bevel gear compartment.
thanks for all the help guys. well that sucks if my loader has been converted and i got almost a gallon of oil each out of the 1/2 drain plug holes on each side. the weird thing is the bevel gear oil level never drooped off the full mark on the stick. i mean looks like if the bevel housing seals were leaking i would be loosing fluid out of the bevel gear housing and into the steering clutch housing? if so wouldn't my bevel gear oil level be dropping? so did the lever steer have the hydraulic assist? here is a pic of what i am talking about.
I believe that when it came from the factory a wet machine only had 1oil level check for all the compartments as they all ran together not sure after one had been modified from dry to wet and yes the bevel gear oil should have went down but you got me thinking now and I wonder if the slave cylinders that release the clutches couldn't also be leaking into the compartment if it has them.
wouldnt know about the slave cylinders until i take it apart.mine has a real long dip stick to check the oil in the bevel gear housing.i have never been into the bevel gear housing so it looks like i have a lot to learn.lol but thanks for the help. Bobby
When I get in the shop in the morning Ill look the ser # up and see what I can find
bevel gear comp. on dry steer holds 4.5 gal. bevel and steer comp. on wet steer holds 18 gal. Someone in the past might have put gear oil in the bevel comp. because the 30 wt wouldnt stay in there. On dry steer compartments you can drain and then add solvent into the seperate comp. on each side thru the square plates on the back. Add solvent up past the bottem of the brake bands in the comp. then drive forward and back for 5 min. then drain and do over this time using the brakes for 5 min. keep doing this untill it starts getting clean and the brakes start working. this is for dry steer that brakes are not working because of oil contamination
If you have the full peddle steer attachment option it will include boosted steering clutches, tall fairly straight dip stick tube mounted high on the deck along side the fill pipe. Also will have the oil pump mounted to the front of the transmission and a separate filter.
yes that is just like how mine is set up. so sounds like i am so posed to have the dry steering clutches/brakes. i took a pic of the bolts i was talking about. here it is. thanks for the help everyone. thanks Bobby
here is another pic
well mine must have the wet bevel/steering housing because i just put in 4.5 gallons and the oil is not even showing on the stick. also as far as i can tell i 0only have one stick to check the oil level with. damn got to get more oil lol
No, the peddle steer option (complete) would be wet brakes and steering clutches. The dry type brake band support bolt would be removed and the hole plugged.
ok i am starting to get confused.lol so which one do i have going by the pictures i posted? thanks Bobby
Can't tell for sure as dry brakes would have the support bolt and the wet brakes do not.
Those don't look like band support bolts to me Bobby. Have a look in the square hole in the fourth pic from the manual. If you have dry clutches there will be lots of rust on top of everything. If it's oily not rust'y you have wet clutches. Later Bob
Those farthest outboard cap screws, the left one you can see the sealing washer in picture #1 is where the support bolts would go. So it looks like your good to go with wet system.
ok thanks for the help every one. well got 5 gallons in the bevel gear case and its not showing up on the dip stick. so looks like more oil for me.lol you guys did say wet clutches take 18 gallons right? also i allmost took one of the bolts out, but scared if i did and mine had dry brakes that they would of came apart on me.lol not ready to tear in to the bevel housing yet.lol
Have your brake adjustment screws ran out of adjustment?
sorry not sure i understand your ? Hatchequip. i ran out of time today to mess with it more. also i dont have a book on the 941 yet, trying to get the guy i bought the loader off of eather sell me the book or let me barrow it. i adjusted the brakes right after i bought it, but that been a few years. So what is the how to on adjusting them? thanks Bobby
coming in from the back on top is a cover on each side that you remove to adjust the brakes was just wandering if the adjusters had bottomed out on you. have seen where people have thought that they adjusted the linkage rods coming from the pedals to adjust brakes but that isn't it
no the last time i adjusted the brakes i took the plates off on the back of the bevel housing. but i need to see about adjusting my steering/brake peddles.seems like my the peddle,s go down quite always before the loader will make a turn. guess i need to check my peddle free travel right? but i do that after i adjust the brakes?
nope you adjusted in the correct place turn those adjusters until you get about half pedal you don't want the brakes adjusted up any more than that or after you start running the machine it will start locking the brakes down. the first part of pedal travel is the steering clutches releasing and then the brakes start coming on the further you mash down. that's why people mess up when they think the adjustments on the linkage rods, they start getting the brakes coming on before the clutches release. agood way to check that this is adjusted right get on a steep place where it will roll in neutral and put it in gear and mash down just enough that you release the clutches but before the brakes come on and it should roll by backwards by itself with it in forward gear
well sounds like i might off adjusted the brakes wrong. by that i mean the last time i adjusted the brakes was over a year ago, well i think i tightened the bolt all the way down and then backed them off 1.5 turns. does that sound right? I know under power i have to really push down hard on the center peddle to get the loader to stop. but if i push down on both the outer peddles the track loader will stop easy. even on a steep hill.or are you so posed to power down before you use the center peddle? also hatch can you give me the instructions on how to adjust the steering brakes and clutches?
center pedal is for braking at low idle or neutral because it does not release the clutches which are still engaged and because you have it reved up the torque is trying its best to pull thru the brakes. Im not good on posting service manual pics on here they are hard to read and I don't know how to send it off my cat sis but others are and Im sure someone will but if you or any one else haven't messed with those rods just adjust the adjusters for about half a pedal like I was talking about earlier and put it on a hill to check
turn the adjusters in back that are on each side one for left and one for right they take 9/16 to adjust as you turn it each flat of the hex you will fill a slight detent normally it doesn't take much turning and if you can have some one in the seat applying and letting off the pedals while your adjusting you will fill the adjusters moving slightly forward and backward and they can tell you when you get close to half pedal
I do not have anybody to help me today so i tried to do some measuring on my own, but did not do any adjusting. well first let me say i don't but know if this is the right way to measure for free travel, but here goes. with me siting in the seat and using a tape measure, from the end of the steering pedal to the forward wall. pushing down on the steering peddle till it stops moving i got around 4.5 inches. n ow just pushing on the peddle until i fill resistance i am only getting around 3/4 to one inch of movement. so does any of this sound right or am i doing it wrong?
You want the pedal to go down a little past or close to half way to the floor when you push it down it sounds like your to tight try the hill and see if it roll in gear when you mash them down far enough to release the clutches but not down far enough to start the brakes coming on the measurements on these old machines are fine for getting you in the ball park but with all the wear on every thing from years of use you have to fine tune it by feel to get it right. so just back them off a little and put it on a slope that it will roll on.