New to the site. I am getting ready to be in the market for an older small track loader around the size of a John Deere 450 in the next year. I know there are several different manufacturers other than John Deere that made track loaders around this size. I don't have a concrete budget set in stone but would like to stay under 15K if possible. Age doesn't bother me near as much as condition so an older non computerized loader probably meets my needs more. I am looking for something that is fairly easy to work on and decent parts availability. Parts don't have to be sitting on the shelf but I want to stay away from loaders that most of the parts are obsolete. I know Case, Allis, cat, and International made dozers and track loaders in this size but don't know which model or brand to stay away from and which ones to seek out. This loader will be used for light land clearing around the farm, moving dirt, as well as building a 3/4 acre pond. Most of the trees are around 4 to 8 inches in diameter. It will be stored out of the weather inside a barn. I plan to keep this piece of equipment for many years. I know many will think I should have this work contracted out or rent equipment but that wouldn't fit my need since I work full time and would do most of my work in the evenings and on weekends spread out over a long period of time. I've already given much thought to skid loaders, backhoes, excavators, dozers, etc over the last year and decided that a track loader meets my needs better overall. Any current owners out there willing to give some insight on their opinions in which track loader they would choose if in the market? Thanks in advance.
Welcome to the forum Link. Re the track loaders, I cannot speak for the other makes, but I bought an old Cat 941 a year ago & almost any part required for it is still available that I have needed. I believe the model year on the 941 to be 1972. Allis is long gone, but perhaps some of the others with Allis equipment could weigh in as to whether used pars are still available for them.
Welcome.... I have just succumbed to yellow fever my self having bought a John Deere 450C track loader with back hoe attachment. If you look, you can find one in your budget but it will take some time. The back hoe attachment is a beast, the machine is far more nimble and maneuverable without it, but so much more useful with it. It easily detaches with about 20 minutes work. There were far more JDs with a back hoe than Cats. If you can find one with a 4 in 1 bucket it will be even more versatile but that will drive the price up. Parts should be no problem for a JD 350 or 450. The "C" model has wet steering clutches which is a plus. You might want to visit here: http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/index.php for more info about the machine. Good luck with your hunt. Even if the economics of owning v/s hiring out the work out is a wash having the machine and doing it your self can give you great satisfaction. I know my face hurts from smiling when I climb off the machine. Rick
Welcome to the forum. The machine is just a part of the cost of owning tracked type machinery. Before you buy, pick some hypothetical serious parts that you might need later on. A starter, a radiator, steering clutch parts, an alternator, an engine head, sprockets, track chains, front idler or lower rollers. See if you can find aftermarket parts and what the cost is. Some brands as you will find out will not be be available in aftermarket but only through a dealer. The dealer parts prices are going to startle you, whatever the brand. I own two vintage Cats, both 1978 models. Caterpillar carries and stocks more parts than any other brand when you get into the older market. Cat also has what they call Cat Classic parts, which is actually an aftermarket ans sold at about half price of Cat brand parts. Off Road Equipment in the Knoxville Tn. area sells Cat brand parts and aftermarket parts for Caterpillar at ridiculously low prices. I really like Deer equipment, Case made some good loaders too. I just can't afford to own them because of their parts prices. Older Cat loaders are available and all parts are available for them at reasonable prices. Loaders are becoming hard to find, good older loaders are even harder to find. Buy one in reasonably good shape and fix it up to suit your needs. I paid 10,000 for my 951-C. it is a power shift model. I did a complete engine overhaul, replaced the gages, replaced the track chains, shoes, bolts and nuts, replaced the sprocket rims, painted it, changed all filters and fluids and untold numbers of odd parts and adjustments. Now it is a worthy machine. If you can't find a good one, then build your own from what it is that is available to you. I am happy with my loader and dozier. I paid 15,000 for the D4-E dozier I changed fluids and filters and rebuilt both track adjuster cylinders and the tilt cylinder. Other than the aforementioned work it needed nothing. The old gal has a fine old engine and sits on a fairly new SALT tracked undercarriage. It is a direct drive tractor and a pleasure to operate. You can check the thread out, Cat 951-C in my sights. I also have a thread on the D4-E over in the dozier thread. You can check out Boone's thread out here on the loader forum. my first track loader, or many more. Repair advice is more available for Caterpillar machinery on this forum than other brands just because of the sheer number of people who own the vintage Cats. Not trying to say that you can't get plenty of good advice on other brands from this forum too. Good luck with the hunt!
Not real familiar with Cats. What Cat loader if any would be comparable to say the size of a Deere 450? I would really like to stay around that size if possible. I sort of figured Cat would be more expensive. Good to hear that parts for even the old Cat loaders are still available and cheaper than other brands. Are they any harder to work on than say Deere, Allis, IH, or Case when it comes to say steering, brake, clutch adjustments or repairs?
Several Caterpillar loaders fall near the size you are seeking. The 931 and the later 943 come to mind. The above information concerning parts and service info availability for Cat machines is correct. The sheer number of Cat machines in the field offers better new and used parts, in addition to the quality aftermarket parts. Service information and skilled technicians abound in the Cat world. I use a 1988 model 943 that has many, many unknown hours. I do my own repairs and maintenance, and I took the time and money to buy a set of service and parts manuals. I have used Case and JD machines, and both are capable, economical machines. There is simply a very small population of them in service. Good Luck, and Regards, Clark
Are there any versions or year models of the 931 and 943 that seem to be better than others as far as problems and working on? Possible to find a decent older unit in the 15K price range?
If you cannot or wish not to do own repairs stick with a name brand that is still sold IE Deere/Cat/Case, parts acquisitions for the others can be troublesome, servicing shops another issue. I do my own work and own a Allis, tough row to weed through. Deere 450 series are decent little tracks, lots around lots of used inventory for replacement parts and not too severe on new stuff. 450A was dry clutch, B was wet clutch(Steering), C was a defined improvement. Going a tad bigger to a 555G gets you a completely better breed of machine and some better longevity.
BTW, forgot, Welcome to HE Forum! lots of good advice and plenty of old hand knowledge in here.
The 450B's had dry steering clutches, the C's were wet and later ones had a solid mount front cross bar.
Cat transmissions generally hold up a little better. 931B's with the foot pedals coming down from the dash are better than the older models with the pedals coming up from the floor. Keep in mind they can all be money pits. With the price of track loaders, you should be able to find something decent for $15,000. It would be well worth it to pay an experienced mechanic to check it out for you.
I knew the B's were dry clutch don't know why I wrote otherwise, oh well. Still good little machines but would seriously look to 555G series if can spend a little more $$. Or step up to Cat or look to Case series
I might look at a Cat 955 loader ? Nice size machine for all around work & knockin trees between day job and evening / weekend fun . http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...ders/manufacturer/caterpillar/model-group/955
Not sure how far you want to travel but former work mate has a JD 350C with loader and (quick tach I think) hoe that he no longer needs. He called me this weekend and asked if I knew anyone looking for one. I have not seen it for years but could go take a look and pictures if you are interested. Its located in rural Willow River, MN, a bit of a drive for you. He used it last weekend to load some fuel tanks, first time he has started it for 6 months or so. You could probably get it for $7,500. I would be interested myself but already have a 931 with 4n1 bucket and hoe.
Welcome to the forum. I bought a 1978 JD 450C about 20 years ago to do the same work you described. I bought a machine in excellent condition for around $12k. Mine does have the wet clutches, lever steer and does have the turbocharger for a little extra power. I have or have had repaired the steering clutches, pulled engine to replace trans seal, rebuilt engine at same time because cylinder liners were leaking and have replaced the entire undercarriage. I let parts wear a long time before I replace them. I am not the only operator. I have several employees who operate it also. It is an ongoing project but with good technique these little machines can knock out some good sized trees.
That would be a good bit further than I would want to travel but thanks for the offer of getting pictures.
Looks so far that either a JD 450C or Cat 931B would both fit my needs. I would really like to stay around that size. The 450C is a wet clutch but not sure of the 931B. What I found out online is that the 931B was a dry clutch but some have reported having wet clutches. Is there a big advantage to having wet clutches over Dry clutches? Anyone know roughly what year they went from floor pedals tp pedals coming from the dash on the 931B?
I do intend to have an experienced person to check it over real good and drive it around once it gets up to temperature just to make sure everything operates as it should. Things that I know to look for so far are undercarriage wear, any steering and braking issues, Engine blow by, major fluid leaks, and strong hydraulics.
If left sitting for extended periods, dry steering clutches can rust/seize their friction discs to the steels and not release. I have a 450B that the previous owner was negligent or stupid regarding maintenance. It's been a good sized machine for me but needing a little TLC. DB
350B Case Trackloader, so far, so good (within reason) Small / old seekers... I would advise to a 450 Case or JD with 4:1 and rippers My 350B Case is fine, but with wet BRAKE steering, is limited on maneuverability (Must be moving to steer... tough when in a tight spot). The 450 Case has clutch steering which POWERS the turn and can do from stationary position. I do love my 350B with 4:1 and Rippers. It is very handy on acreage / building homes / logging on steep terrain , (light / partial BIG trees). 3 spd with Hydrostat / shuttle is very nice. It is nice that I can tug it around on my 20#k backhoe trailer behind a 1T 4x4. (450 would be too heavy for Mtns and a 1T, but I could use my Mack or KW (additional trouble and cost)). Paid $7000 20 yrs ago, and have just put $7000 in it for 100% Hydraulic rebuild and new undercarriage parts. As with all tracked machines, it could gobble another $8k in a heartbeat. I consider it to be $25/ hr in parts / repairs. but... it eats very little fuel! (unlike my 9000# tracked skidsteer). There are some interesting things you can do with 4:1, and trackloaders can be fitted with Gib Poles for setting trusses / extended lifting. Great for pulling posts and moving trees. I mounted a 'clip-on' 5' Brush Hog to front, and added Hyd motor that I drive off Clam circuit. I can clear about 5 Acres of brush / day. (good progress for a small machine). Now to take off the belly pan and find a leak... Likely a very small crack in fuel tank... CAUTION: Backhoe attachments are HEAVY and can be troublesome. Not uncommon to find stress crack in rear frame. LOOK carefully.
Stealth, you are 100% correct about the fuel tank cracks. I just had to drani and weld a crack in the transfer tank in the back of my F 250. Crack caused by expansion and contraction every morning and again every evening as the sun and temp goes down. Flexing of the metal over time will produce the cracks. I am also on board with the leaks under the belly pan too, but that is also a good place to find good used tools too.
My one comment about the JD 450B with the 4 in 1 bucket...those buckets were supplied by Droit and CASE now supplies the Droit parts. I have been UNABLE to get parts for the Droit bucket since the local case parts counter will ONLY take Droit part numbers and not the Droit part numbers supplied by JD in their online parts manual. So, I have been making my own pins, rebuilding the cutting edges, having the hydraulics locally serviced and such. It is time intensive to make your own edge out of plate, grouser bar and hard face. Howard
I'm fairly certain all 931B's had the pedals down from the dash. Wet clutches as well as the 3F/3R transmission were options on the 931B. Nothing wrong with the 3F/1R transmission though. Later "Improved" 931B's had slightly higher lift height. A lot of owners prefer dry clutches over the wet. As far as parts support I think Cat would be the best. I have a 4 in 1 bucket and in clearing brush, I don't like it. All the lines are just waiting to get bent and ripped and twisted from falling and broken branches. It doesn't take much to ruin them. A 4 in 1 doesn't load as easily either. For some things they are great though.
Welcome aboard, you can find parts for almost any brand, how much time and effort are you willing to spent? Cat parts can be had (just cough up the money) very easily. I shopped around for a small track loader for a while, really liked the Case 855, but was worried about parts. Found a nice Cat 933 that worked and never looked back. Best advice I received was to test a bunch, take a trusted mechanic with me and pick out a few parts that may fail and try to find them.
4/1 or MP bucket has its place but tend to be bulky, heavy and drops the capacity of the bucket by as much as 1/3. I have a huge weight 4/1 bucket that is way too heavy where I am rebuilding a GP or General Purpose bucket to exchange on the machine. Will keep the old MP but will probably not use it again.