hi all: thank you in advance for your advice. I wanted to see if I am even capable of pulling this off. A totally below grade basement style shop. If I can even afford it. 60 x 100 with 16 ft ceiling height for automotive lift It’s in Arizona. Don’t think water will be an issue on the digging below grade, roof structure is another story to finish as well, the house is separate if I end up buying it. So this is a stand alone shop keeping things much cooler for the hot az climate was my thought process as well as the burning sun , on the vehicles / large rv storage/ work space . Any thoughts. And costs. For eqq rental type needed ect...
Extreme loads on the sides of the walls, roof load with soil cover, and not much to gain that couldn't be done much simpler in other ways. Now if you have a D8 that was owned by a little old lady and only driven to church on Sunday, and you want it protected from nuclear blast, then underground would be the way to go, 12-16' tunnels though, not 60' clear span.
Maybe some sort of truss style roof with no roof load (dirt), but instead a slightly raised garden that can support it’s shallow dirt for growing food
whole idea is the keeping out of the extreme az sun while also protecting all vehicles in an earth climate controlled environment
It's going to cost you way more to build underground versus above. Build above ground and insulate real good.
I think there are much easier ways to do it as well. It would probably require extensive engineering for one thing.
I thought it might be cost prohibitive, but thinking that not buying a pole building, I could put the money underground , as a strong slab is still needed either way, just didn’t know all the other variables, 20-30 k for a pole building is a big chunk
Can always go wood vs concrete walls but termites might get to those in time vs concrete
The advantage of a pole building is that it doesn't need a slab or foundation. You can put a slab in later if you choose.
I wonder if a pole building can be buried A slab is a major part of my shop so that’s why I was thinking below grade
I wish I could. But az is a whole different animal , insulate is great for cold climate , no amount of insulation helps in a scorching hot desert 116 deg is beyond extreme
what's your night time temp? Typically mass is very valuable in climates like that, mass inside of insulation will be MUCH cheaper than underground. I don't think you have any idea what it's going to cost to engineer a 100' x16' high wall against earth pressure. you're still going to need a door, and that's going to need to be insulated and sealed, or all your cool air will flow right out underneath it. you have the same problem as cold climate, just different.
105 deg in summer at 1 am , I could go smaller but wanted more room for a 42 ft rv plus 10 cars apx , insulation works great I’m sure if I wanted a 600 / month electric bill. But don’t, so was hoping the below grade would eliminate cooling , evap cooling needs zero insulation. But I can’t chance a 30k well if I run my well dry. Az is a very tough place to live
If you think 20-30k is expensive, you better just wash your hands of it right now. I think you would be better off putting money into insulation and possibly some earth tubes to help keep the temps down.
Thx might be good to try, just read some on it, similar to geothermal
The average low for Phoenix is 75 in June and Sept, and 80-81 for July and Aug. You're not talking about huge temperature differences for 6 months like cold climates. There's a reason you probably don't have a lot of frozen food warehouses in Phoenix, but I bet the AC bills are not as bad as parts of FL and TX, at least they wouldn't be with any effort to reduce them. This isn't anything new, just look into underground houses, and scale up from there. Let us know what you estimate for numbers, I'd guess you'd have a hard time doing it on under a million.
Wow def not 1 million in my bank. But. I can bet any amount of money to anyone. It is Not 75 in phoenix in June - sept. I lived here for 20 years. Try 100 degrees at. Midnight. 100% guaranteed
28 degrees possible in the winter. 119 possible in the summers
Water spickets outside have frozen and burst, to frying an egg on the summer sidewalks
As the weather people out here say it. We are having a cooling trend down to 109. From 112
Lived in florida. The kilowatt charge there was 6 cent a kilowatt. Here it’s more then double
You can argue with the national weather service, I've never been closer than the four corners. Those are average lows for the month. That's where the mass helps. It's a rough world, do it your way if you want.
These are daily observations from 2017 July. They are temp humidity dew pt and wind . 10:51 PM 95 F 63 F 34 % NW 3 mph 0 mph 28.71 in 0.0 in Cloudy 11:51 PM 95 F 64 F 36 % NNW 3 mph 0 mph 28.70 in 0.0 in Mostly Cloudy
can back you up there I have seen 107 at 4am in that burg.
So regardless we are looking at trying to use a below ground structure to solve a problem, I'd propose building it above ground and filling all around it before I would dig a hole and add all the ground pressure. Wood isn't much of an option with a 16' height being required. I would look at poured walls for the rot resistance and the increased strength.
20 to 30k is a lot? Your underground idea will probably cost 100k plus.
And that's just for the bearing walls
Insulation works for heat as well as cold. Remember a commercial for a thermos... "How does it know?" Do you need it cool all the time or just when you're working in it? A Porta-cool or 2 might be an option to consider.
Your Idea is definitely cost prohibitive while a fully insulated turn key building will run you a 100 grand an average basement on a house starts out at 25 grand here and that is only 10 foot deep you will easily have 100 grand into the footings and retaing walls that doesnt include excavating or the cost of a slab for the floor If you dont cover it with at least 2 feet of dirt 3 would be better you will still have to have a coller on it to get below 95 degrees inside to much cubic footage you lose the advantage of being below ground Putting in geo air tubes would be a big plus but that works just as well on a normal steel building and it would take a lot of them to make a dent in a building that size It's not uncommon to see the temps here hit 115 in early june I have seen a week or more where it didn't get under 105 at night period i have seen 120 in the shade it just gets hot you learn to deal with it the joke goes most places you bury water lines deep for frost here you bury them deep to keep the water from getting hot Your best bet is a steel building that's spray foamed a friend of mine built a 40 by 40 12 foot tall he put 5 inches if spray foam on every wall and ceiling sheeted it over and all his exterior sheets had the expensive heat rejection paint his electric bill to cool that place in the summer to the high 70s is about 200 hundred bucks
In Australia a lot of sheds and commercial buildings are concrete tilt up structures which go up quickly and could easily be engineered to resist the pressure from the earth against the walls. Assuming you have these structures in your state get a quote from a company that builds them. If you have a concrete plant nearby and decent sized cranes your cost might not be too high. There are opal mining towns in the hot Australian desert where most people live underground to avoid the heat. Works very well.
Concrete walls and roof built into hill or covered with dirt. One open side on shady side of building for doors. Must be engineered. My cost estimate 200000.00+.
Sounds like a deal to me BLS We have done buildings in the city going down 25-30 feet to install a parking garage under an existing building and they cost *way!!!!* more than that just for the walls yes.... I know a mass excavation project would save money over working from the top down... but I still know what the walls cost on a building that size to hold back the dirt forces.