Looking at replacing a leaky final on a PC 75uu. Pricing on Alibaba hard to ignore.. Anyone familiar with the industry? The us suppliers selling the Chinese aftermarket ones? Is there a reason to fear Alibaba? I see some us sites offer lifetime warranty. Kinda tempting? Price from China looking pretty good.. Any opinions? Thanks!
Why not rebuild it. When done correctly it'll save you about 60% of a new one and 100% of worry.
The big ring bearing from komatsu is more than cost of whole chinese unit for 1. I'm sure the 'kit', if one exists would cost much more.. also, not really looking for a $2k puzzle box to play with. Am not a very good machinist.. I'm quite sure I could easily overlook a fit that's not right and drastically lower life span of my 'rebuild'. Local hydro specialist about twice price of aftermarket. Used unit about 1.5x aftermarket. Is an odd sorta problem. Am curious if the us aftermarket units are same as direct from China aftermarket?
Just remember, "good" and "cheap" don't belong in the same sentence.
In my experience the cheap Chinese products are more expensive in the long run.. YMMV.
They probably use that worldwide. Try one. A lot of that stuff is getting better all the time, only a few build it and sold under lots of names and venues. Something else to consider is,,,,,,,,, not every piece especially on a well used machine needs to be "rebuilt " it needs to be fixed and often unless its blown up a guess till u take it apart. I used to toss a gob at it, replace everything in sight. Today, fix. Rarely actually buy or order a part till I need to and often manage to work days and even weeks without visiting the store. We repair a voltage reg, carb, bearing g in alt, solenoid, clean a spark plug, put inj pump together from spare parts in last week or 2
Have a link to the Alibaba part? You're at a port but you're still looking at expenses to get it off the ship and to you. There a a bunch of middle men at the port who all get a cut of the deal so you need to know what that will cost before you decide. Or by air, not cheap but quick. DHL seems to be the preferred shipper by most of the Chinese I've dealt with. Joe H
I've had several experiences with Alibaba and Komatsu parts. I've had NO regrets. It chaps my ass to have to pay $400+ for a starter solenoid from Komatsu direct that should not run over $100 or $625+ for an alternator. I'm always trying to find a cheaper way out and Alibaba or Aliexpress usually sells original Komatsu equipment at unbelievable prices. 1) My PC200-6 monitor had become "sunburned" or something like it. You could not read anything on the display any more. Komatsu had a recall on this but I was never notified of it even though the machine was purchased from a Komatsu dealer as a new demo with 200 hours on the clock. When I had the display issue get too bad to read and inquire about the cost of a replacement, they then told me of the recall that was over with and they refused to do anything about it, even thought I took the complaint up the ladder. If I recall correctly, the replacement was about $2,500 for that monitor. I was rather pissed with Komatsu at that time. Then, though some avid searching, I found an original Komatsu display screen (new type - no burning) on Alibaba for $55 shipped to my address. All I had to do was unsolder 88 pins and then solder in the new 88 pin display screen. It was a Komatsu original in Komatsu packaging. For $25, I purchased a de-soldering gun to go along with my soldering station. For under $100 I replaced the screen in the monitor and gave Komatsu a 1 finger salute. That monitor is still working fine today, at least ten years later. 2) I had a pressure sensor go out on my swing circuit. I think it's the pilot pressure sensor if I remember right. There is a stack of 8 or 10 of these little sensors on a hydraulic tree behind the cab next to the main hydraulic valve bank. Komatsu quoted me $125 for 1 sensor. Alibaba had 5 of the same Komatsu number for $120 shipped. I swapped the bad one out with an extra from the accessory circuit to get me by for a while. Another 1 finger salute to Komatsu's overpricing and I have several extra sensors in stock. I've not had any problems with what was shipped and the Alibaba stuff was in original Komatsu packaging with security labels and all. 100% genuine product. I've since purchased other Komatsu components from Alibaba or Aliexpress - starter solenoids, LS select valve and some other stuff. Original quality items at significant savings. Yep, I do like Alibaba and Aliexpress. I may hate to give money direct to the Chinese but the savings is worth it. If the cost savings justify it, it is probably worth a try. Chances are it might be OEM hardware anyways.
Its worth noting that the negatives dont actually include any experience, they basically one line clichés.
We are seeing plenty of problems with starters and alternators from China. I have a customer that is on the third starter for a PC120-5. It was one third the cost with a 30 day warranty and no core. The first two went out in about 35 days. Now they have the cost of the factory starter in the machine. At least they made it past 35 days. Last week I had another customer with alternator issues on a PC200-5. New aftermarket wouldn't charge unless you excited it. Come to find out the units on this machine from the factory were self exciting. I could have set this one up but the owner said no. He felt that his operation was made enough money that he didn't have change the factory wiring to have to use cheap parts. As far as a final drive goes, I think I would be considering what you use the machine for and how many hours a year you intent to use it. It all that is wrong is the seal, you can probably replace the bearing and seal economically. Labor is the biggest expense for that. If there are any gear problems, it isn't worth fixing at all. Generally, if it isn't locked up the gears are OK.
I guess my question would be why you are considering a bearing or a replacement FD when from reading your OP the only symptom you have right now is a leaky seal. Likely the leaking seal is all that's wrong with it. HeavyEquipmentForums
You're typically dealing with sales agencies, and your contact will have basically Zero actual knowledge, but can get answers if you ask the right questions. Ocean freight is cheap but going up rapidly as there's still a shortage of containers on the China end, and limited ship sailings. I always figure $500-$600 for fees and clearance once it's landed, though that can go up if the container gets selected for intensive exam or X-ray randomly by customs. If you don't have a continuous import bond (I do) then that has to be factored in, your customs broker (you will need one) will tell you if that's possible and what it will cost for a one time bond. Now, keep in mind whatever the price is, a final drive almost certainly will qualify for a 25% import tariff and probably some normal duty as well, so multiply the price by 1.3 and you should be close, plus freight and all the money you will pay to your broker to cover myriad fees and filings. And then if there's a warranty issue, they will most likely make good on it, but at what time frame? Sometimes it's better if you can get the same item in the states for a bit more, at least you're dealing with somebody on this side of the pond that may be able to respond better and quicker if there's an issue. YMMV
Yep, It's the big seal that's leaking. It's because of the motor though. The motor is pushing hydro oil into gear housing. Surely what took out seal? I've taken these drives apart in past and am not really considering that as an option. The parts from komatsu are so expensive.. doesn't make sense to even try. I have a feeling all the 'cheap' finals listed around the net are originating from same Chinese manufacturer? Wonder where a hydash final comes from? Japan? The shipping quote was more than final. But still under us supplier cost by large amount. Too shop, not closest port. I've never bought off Alibaba before. Sounds like can be good tool if ok with Chinese parts. Thanks for everyones thoughts!
Hydash / Nabtesco / Teijin Seiki all pretty much the same animal, offices all over but I believe Thailand? Good quality over the years.
Now I’m even more confused. If the motor is the problem does it have to come with a FD and you can’t buy it separately.? Looking at it simplistically if you fix the motor the FD seal leak ought to go away in its own.
A lot of these smaller drives are unitized Nige, the motor is built integrally with the mounting flange/spindle of the gearbox. But yes, in many cases just replacing the shaft seal will solve the problem, sometimes they just get tired.
Im with Nige............Ide be looking at a reseal job. Whatever you do, DONT buy a Chinese copy final drive!!!!
. Yes, Noticed. @Nige - not a hydro expert at all, but I have hard time believing that a shaft seal will fix the leaky motor.. it's got 4k hours of use over many decades. I'm Willing to put it into the worn out file. Then the ring seal/ bearing is 880 from komatsu. Plus whatever other problems I find.. Im not trying to decide if I need or want to rebuild it. I was curious if anyone knew how many sources for aftermarket finals there were .. are all the cheap finals from China? If not how to tell quality vs others. Appreciate the feedback!
mclean, the seal you are considering changing could be good but it won't handle the pressure from inside the hub. I suggest you check the motor thoroughly as to the reason the shaft seal is damaged. A worn rotating group, scratches on the lens plate or worn swash plate in the motor causes the casedrain pressure to increase, then blowing the shaft seal and that may be the root of the problem. Look for Hi Dash/ Nabtesco dealer , they should have parts on the shelf. It not a big job to do yourself but the work place must be clean.
I do kind of agree with mclean on this. I suspect but, don't know for sure, that the Hydash final he is talking about is a walking pin type final drive and not a double or triple reduction geared unit. I've had those apart but never rebuilt one. Just the parts prices are usually more than a new unit, and that is if you can get all those little pins back in place. Sometimes, particularly on these small machines, you are far better off paying the money for a component and going back to work than trying to cobble the broken unit back together. When you get done at least you might have some parts to consider for the other unit when it fails.
John, I suspect it's not a planetary hub problem but a hydraulic motor problem and the fact it's blowing the motor shaft seal is a very good indicator. The planetary gearbox may not have suffered any damage what so ever. There's no point in fixing what ain't broke and not fixing what is.
The thing i've found about repairs like this is if you aren't totally sure, find the right shop who knows their stuff and they will point you in the right direction. I would bet if you found the right guy and told him exactly what was happening, he could tell you very likely what the best solution is, rebuild, aftermarket, chinese aftermarket depending on your timeline and usage. I don't know about the final, but in cases like starters, alternators, etc I always go to a specialty electrical place here who rebuilds them, cheaper then OEM and it's all they do, so they know their stuff. Have you searched for all local places who source aftermarket? Tried asking dealer who would sell aftermarket? Maybe a better option exists. The whole chinese is garbage thing is just so off base. When I was looking at new mini ex tracks last year you see how places are like "not chinese" and when I started looking into it, no one makes a track in north america. There is not many different places they are made. I went with a off brand and they've held up great and at a much cheaper price. Alibaba's prices just seem so dang cheap. I've been super curious but never needed the right part where it made sense to try them out. Like why doesn't a local place just order their stuff deal with importing it and they could make a fortune if the stuff is half decent because they would order volume.
I cant really see a downside to taking it apart?
How many of these have you rebuilt?
Just a side note. Where are these coming from? Possibly a place headquartered in your corner of the country? Asking for a friend.
The downside is the machine doesn't have a final anymore.. I've taken these apart before and am in no hurry to get back in there. Like 80 little pins all lined up on these rolly plates that walk the pins around as they shuffle back n forth in sequence. Not just planetary setup. I have no doubt the final itself is ok. The motor is the root of issue. It's been leaking for a couple months. Machine is used off and on. But is now at point where it needs to have final over a dish to catch oil incase sits for a while.. bought 2 alibaba finals yesterday. My hunch is our u s suppliers are just Alibaba resellers. Markup seems about right. Will update when (if they show up?) I've got em on. Keep eye on eBay for PC 75 finals if want to have some fun with a roley pin final.. maybe I'll put a note on the ad that says was told should be easy fix? . I also agree that in some cases China is an excellent source for things. Still some major issues to watch for too. Thanks again for everyones input. Sounds like nobody really sure how many sources for aftermarket finals there are. Maybe just China and the oems? This was my assumption.
Its certainly not an item everyone needs which makes it more likely that there are fewer builders.
PM sent.
If its broke or going to be broke it won't have a final anyway. That's why I say no downside.
Conclusion.. still not sure. bought 2x pc75 finals from Alibaba. They we're hard to ignore priced at $600 each with 'free shipping'. The free shipping was a misprint. Cost an additional 800 to ship from china to Tacoma. The port fees cost another 1300 to release from customs. The finals fit well, and look nice. The finals were not exact replicas of the hy dash units it came with. I'm not even sure they have the rolley pins in them? I think may just be planetary setup. They are 2 speed units. They also used sae bps vs metric. So now I have a bunch of adapters to fit the hoses.. another 250. As long as they last another 3,000 hours will be well worth it. No reason to expect they won't. Will update if one blows up. Moral of story. The price on Alibaba is about a 1/3 what actual costs will be, once you've got it and it's spinning again. The people in china were very responsive and not hard to get in contact with at all. Had some bank transfer issues at first which kinda left me un protected for a couple days. They didn't take advantage. Once I got units in and tried to figure out best way to bypass 2 speed port they again were happy to help, even send free parts if needed. They suggested to jump from drain to speed port rather than plugging. Offered to send fittings and hoses if needed. Better than some local customer service.. The big test remains... Will they last? Hope so!