I am about to come into possession of AC. model D grader, and I am wondering if anyone could help with the location of the ID tag. Also it is a manual rotate turn table, and I was wondering if this is because of the date of manufacture, or if the hydraulic rotate was an option? Also the front axle does not have the tilting wheels, is that an option also? Does anyone know of a parts yard for parts? Thank you for a response.
Is that Eureka Canada...if so burrrrr.....I think it depends on how old the grader is. I have only seen one Allis Chambers grader, and I think it has circle rotation. I ran older graders with manual Moldboard tilt, and no wheel lean. I guess parts would depend on your location. Anything I could say about that grader would be a guess. There should be info somewhere on line. Good luck.
Thank you for you response. It is Eureka, California. I won't know how old it is until I find the ID. plate, and get a serial no. I am thinking 50s model, because it has an overhead valve engine.
The plate on ours is on the outside of the operators station floorboard on the side of the channel. It is an old round tube manual rotation and moldboard tilt with non tilting front.
I believe the Model D has either the WD or the WD45 engine dependent on year built. You see them around the upper mid west every once in a while. Seems to me the DNR had one here many years ago. For parts try Thill Tractor in Eau Claire, Wi. They have a hundred or so parts machines and are a wealth of knowledge.
This one is also a round tube model. Manual rotate, and no tilt front axle. 4cylinder gas engine.
Here's mine:
As previously mentioned, the brass tag should be on the channel frame on the right side where you step up onto the operators station. I as well as several others have a list of dates of manufacture with respect to the serial number and can tell you the year if you can find the serial number. They first used the WD farm tractor engine then switched to the WD45 tractor engine when that tractor came out and then to the D17 tractor engine. The diesel version also used the diesel tractor engine. After the mid 60's they built a heavier square frame and were generally built with all the features that were option on the older models and drifted away from using the gas farm tractor engine. They were produced with a variety of options that included the power circle and leaning front wheels amongst several other options. It appears as if yours is the basic model. There were a lot produced and many are still being used but unfortunately many got scraped because the owners did not realise that there would be a good market for spare parts.
Here is a photo of one that was at a dealer by the mother in laws last fall. This one was owned by a snowmobile club and was originally a DNR machine. Hard to see in this photo but this machine has a ripper directly under the front of the cab. A year or so ago this equipment trader had the twin to this one in his yard except that it had a JD diesel stuck in it that someone took the time to make look like a factory job. I have been looking for pictures of that one but have not found them yet or maybe I did not take any.
That one looks like just the basic model with the optional ripper, i.e., solid front axle and manual circle. Someone has added power steering, an after market cab and a step to help get into the cab. The cab looks nothing like the cab on my D grader which is the same as the one shown in my parts book.
Goes to show that if you are spending the taxpayers money, the amount spent is not a concern.
The D grader may be small but if you often have to wrestle one of them in tight quarters you would give anything for power steering. It was one of the first things that I adapted to mine.
Power steering is especially needed if no leaning wheels. I have quickly learned the value of leaning the wheels in the turn on Ole Gal. When I lean the wheels the steering wheel almost turns itself. With no lean of the wheels, I need to stand up to tug the steering wheel around!
Ole Gal, I agree that leaning wheels help and my D grader has leaning wheels, but doing private driveway work I often had very little space to turn around and little room to take advantage of leaning the wheels while spinning the steering wheel about 10 times to get a full turn. I would often drop the mouldboard and lift the front wheels up but that slowed down progress. Now with my power steering I can turn it lock to lock with one finger even when stopped. I put on an old belt driven power steering pump from a car and adapted power steering components from a scrapped sp combine to make my system. It cost me about $200 plus my time.
The one that I am getting looks very much like this one. The man that has it said that he used it last about 2 years ago. It also has the scarafier mid mounted under the floorboard, behind the blade. I hope to be able to find a powered circle in order to make it a bit easier to angle the blade. Do you have any suggestions for a power steering unit that can be easily grafted to this machine?
I like the old style graders like Allis Chalmers very much. Here a video from one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k69PUfHdy8o
Good luck on finding parts for a power circle. As for power steering, a lot of different systems have been tried. The first factory options used a power assist unit on the steering shaft mounted just above where the shaft went through the frame. Later versions of the D grader such as the M65 and FA65's went fully hydraulic. I have seen both options adapted to older machines. One grader they removed the original steering gear and replaced it with a steering gear with integral power assist from a Ford pick-up truck. Some have adapted fully hydraulic systems. I debated which way to go as scraped sp combines can be found with either system. I elected to go power assist and still retain the mechanical linkage to the front axle. My system uses a control valve on the drag link between the steering box and the tie rod to control a hydraulic cylinder mounted between the front axle and tie rod which means there is very little stress on the old steering box. This is so effective that when I am greasing the front axle and the engine is running and I want shift the wheels for better access to a grease nipple I can simply reach over and turn the steering shaft with one hand. Some have tapped into the grader's hydraulic system and some have used separate power steering pumps. I was told that using an independent pump works best.
DonBC, Thanks for the info on the power steering as I was going to ask also. Could you post a picture of your adaptation? Mine will be different of course because I have a Galion, but I may get some ideas from what your looks like. I am glad you mentioned less stress on the steering box as I had some concerns about the extra power applied by power steering. Why didn't you use the power steering linkage from the car as well as the pump? I guess it was not adaptable to your grader?
Most cars and trucks have all the power steering components within the steering box such as the control valve and power assist with just a supply and return line between the pump and the steering box. There is no linkage. I have seen the system that I used on an old Dodge school bus, a Case farm tractor and on the Cockshut/White combine where I got my parts. A hydraulic type would use your steering wheel mounted on a rotary valve with a supply and return line from the pump to the valve and from the valve to a hydraulic cylinder to turn the front axle. All the mechanical components would be removed. I have never posted any pictures on this site yet so I will give it a try. If I am successful the pictures will show the control valve on the drag link and the small hydraulic cylinder between the front axle and the tie rod and the pump. Sorry, no luck in posting pictures. I will keep trying.
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Both my Model 212 and Model 11 antique Cat graders have the aftermarket Rovanko(?) power steering unit on them. They mount into the steering shaft and as you turn the wheel the valve opens to assist in turning. The only plumbing is two hoses running from the pump to the steering box. They are a quite common add to the older graders and work great.
I elected not to put power assist ahead of the steering box as I knew how much effort it took to steer manually. I was afraid that the amount of force generated by the power assist on the shaft could shorten the life of the steering box. Parts for some of these old machines are hard to come by.
These old add on units use a belt drive power steering pump that looks just like the ones on the 1960s Ford pickups. Only difference I can see is the top cover is different with a hose out of it to a remote 2 gallon tank so it has more capacity. Overall a assist unit running on a fairly low pressure. It will not turn the wheels easily setting still but a great boost and makes them much easier to operate.
I can't see the pics, can you upload again?
Sorry about the pictures. They did not load right and I haven't figured out why. If I click on each attachment on #20 the pictures do open but I don't know why they just don't show up on #20.
Yes the upload system is a bit difficult here, but I have try something out, click on "Manage Attachments", the ones which you have upload you can move from "folder" with your mouse down in the Attachments.
Just take a page from Cat's book, and put joystick steering in her. Get rid of the steering gear, and engineer a piston on the front end somewhere lol. It would be doable if a person had the time, and didn't care about keeping a machine stock
Ok. Here it is. I took pictures of the engine on both sides in hoping someone may be able to identify the mode engine it is. There is also the ID. tag on the frame. It says (D 1925) Hopefully someone will be able to tell me what model year it is.
It would be a 1952 model with the G226 cu. in. gas engine that was used in the very popular WD45 farm tractors. The list shows that there were 1199 made that year. Lots of suppliers for the engine parts. Because of the alternator it has most likely been switched to 12V. If you are ever trying to chase engine parts go the the forum on allischalmers.com They have several after market parts suppliers for these engine advertising there and a wealth of support from members. It has drop centre wheel rims which may have been more common than the flat centre rims that are more common on later models. The back tires look to have even wear. There is no differential and all four drive wheels are locked together so the tires should be all the same to prevent scrubbing. I understand that magnetos are fine but distributors are available as well if you need to change.
I thought about a distributor, but only if it could be electronic ignition. The mag looks to be in very good condition, but I don't know much about them. I took the cover of so I could file the points, and it looks like the rotor is driven by a gear, and there are no timing marks to line it up to. Is no. 1 cylinder at the front of the engine, or the rear of the engine on this machine? Are the distributors after market, or are they AC. ?
On my D grader, which basically has the same engine but the newer D17 tractor engine, there is a hole in the bell housing on the left hand side of the engine when you are facing to the front of the grader. You can find a timing mark on the flywheel. #1 is the front of the engine(rear of the grader). The later WD45's had a distributor and coil so used or new distributors can be found and Pertronix electronic kits are available. I put a kit in my grader. The actual distributor is Delco but you need the whole base. On a closer look at your engine it appears that it may have a large plate that bolts across the side of the engine where the push rods are. It could be that the throttle rod makes it look as if there is a plate there. I can't be sure. If so it is an early model of this engine and I believe 201 cu. in. that was used on the WD tractor. Again, parts are readily available. They are good engines.
If you go to the forum of allischalmers.com and go to the Farm Equipment section and look for a recent posting called "Allis WD NFE (Was Dads)" you will see good pictures of the WD engine and that it had been converted to a distributor. You can also see the plate on the side of the engine that I was mentioning that would confirm a WD engine.
I tried to find the post you are talking about, but was unable to. This engine does have the side cover for the push rods, and tappets on the mag. side of the engine. Engine was stuck from sitting, but was able to get it freed up pretty easily. We have a very good antique tractor mechanic in our area, so we are talking with him about the distributor for this engine. Also the machine has one broken wheel drive chain, but came with a brand new one to install. I really appreciate every bodies feed back.
Check in your chain box with a magnet. My grader came the same way and the chain had come apart at the connector because someone had dropped a socket into the chain box and it eventually jambed between the bottom of the box and the driven sprocket and popped the chain apart. After I cleaned out the chain box I tried running it with the old chain but it was stretched to the point where it would jump now and then. Both chains were stretched or worn from the metal chips and filings off the two driven sprockets that I replaced both chains on that side. I assume that you were able to log onto allischalmers.com and if so you could try a do a search on WD tractors.
Got it running today. Chased down a miss on #2 cylinder to a stuck valve. Got that freed up, and it runs great. Just have to get the gas tank cleaned out really good. The fuel is still contaminated, and plugging up the screen on the sediment bowl. After that it should just about be operational.
I do not know how bad your tank is, but it may be easier and cheaper to have it cleaned at a radiator shop or other place where they can put it in an acid bath. I went through the soak, shake, rattle, and roll far a week in an attempt to clean the gas tank on my old galion and I still get a layer of rust in the fuel bowl with each tank of gas. I think someone must have used a protective coating, but did not bother to properly clean the tank first. Soaking and nuts and bolts would not get it all off. I guess if it can not be knocked off, it is there to stay.
I cut my teeth on a round frame D model with no leaning wheels or power steering. It had a manual circle consisting of a 'drop bolt' pin onto a hole in the circle. Occasionally it wouldn't locate properly and under load would spin and lose windrow under the cab. The steering wheel was an all steel spoke affair and with just a steering box lookout if your front wheel caught the edge of a rock as the would spin and nearly take your hands off! It had a scarifier under the open cab which as you applied pressure would lift the tandem drives of the ground rendering the poor thing useless. On the technical side, I believe it had an italian 6-cyl BUDA deisel engine. and the drive main sprocket could be specified as 11 or 13 tooth depending on whether you wanted a 'creeper' for finishing against edges or a 'shoulder' grader. I dont remember the age but I was born in '56 and I am guessing it was around the same age. However bad it was, and it was bad, we got by and writing about the old girl today has me missing it a little bit. Good luck with the project. Cheers Wayne
We ended up putting a bunch of bbs in the tank, and shaking it up goo with a little diesel. Cleaned it up pretty good. The gas isn't red in the sediment bowl any more. Found that most of the wheels aren't in very good shape, but my tire guy says he has a distributor in Wa. That can make about anything. So we will see what he gives me for a price.
Tony's Tractors in Oregon has new deep drop rims for the D grader. He is one of the Allis suppliers advertising on allischalmers.com . Were your rims ruined by calcium to add weight. My grader had three tires that were still loaded when I got it, two back and one front. I put new tires on the back because the old ones were not matched and did not bother with having them loaded. I felt that I would rather have some wheel slippage rather than possibly breaking something in the old drive train by having to much traction with the tires loaded. The front tire began to leak which ruined the rim. My rims are the flat style and the tire dealer had a used truck rim that worked.
I found a secret from an old boy that used to jockey equipment that grew up with this vintage. If you can find a 20" rim off an old Gleaner combine steer axle, you can cut the center out and it is the same rim! We had one unsalvageable rim and the same old man that had the advice also had a set of rims. I cut out the centers and it fit perfect!
Thank you for that. We are going to need at least 3 wheels it looks like. They rusted out due to them being tube type tires, and sitting in the weather, water could get in through the tire bead, and just sit down in the rim. It's quite humid here most of the year, and things tend to rust. When we load tires here we almost always only use water, and or graphite mixed with water. Doesn't freeze much here, and hardly ever snow. Tires shouldn't be a problem to find. My tire guy is on the search right now. Should know something by tomorrow.
I used relatively inexpensive truck tires made in China. This is not a heavily loaded high speed vehicle so cheap tires would be no problem. They had three different tread styles available.
Don are these tires available to you locally or online? I am needing two 1300x24.
I just went to a local tire chain. I don't know if Fountain Tire is just a Canadian chain or in the US as well. Make sure all your drive tires are identical as they are all locked together all the time so if the tires are not all the same diameter there will be some tire scrubbing.
Thanks, Not to worry about tire scrubbing. Ole Gal is 4 wheel, only 2 driving wheels. I have had some traction problems with the grader tires on the grader now , so I am wondering if truck tires will provide the traction I need.
Sorry, I was thinking about the D grader.
Went to Tony's Tractors on the way home from Portland. He had 2 wheels on the shelf that I was able to get. Heck of a nice guy too, and full of stories.
Looks like I'm buying at least 2 more wheels, and maybe 3. Took them to the tire shop, and when they dismounted the old tires, they just disintegrated right there. They had been filled with calcium chloride, and had leaked out a little, and it just ate the wheels right up.
Whats the size difference between a "d" and an Allis "45" ?
I happened across a machine that was listed as an Allis "45" grader, but after talking to the owner and doing some research I'm thinking he has his machines confused. From what I can tell a 45 was a 120 hp machine and the way the gentleman described it, its sounds like a D. Hoping to get over and look at it when the weather breaks.
Yes, the 45 is a much larger and heavier machine and I believe that they all used a Detroit diesel engine.
Boy, I have nothing but great things to say about Tonys Tractors. Not only is Tony a great, down to earth guy, he is able to help in many ways. I ended up having to buy a intake/exhaust manifold, and not only did he have one, but can still get them, and they are made in the USA. My little grader is running great, changed it from the Mag. over to a distributor, and put a Pertronix electronic ignition kit, and coil on it. Starts at just a bump of the starter, without even needing the choke. No smoke, or odd sputtering at all. Now I will have to dismantle the transaxle, because my dad checked the oil in it, and all he got was 3 gallons of water out of it. So I'm sure it's going to at least need new bearings. Does anyone know of a place to find transaxle gears, and shafts for these if needed?
Water probably came in from a cracked rubber boot on the shift leaver. I picked up a rubber boot for a CV joint for a front wheel drive car to use as a shifter boot. Bearings numbers can possibly be cross referenced to something from a bearing supply house. I don't know who made the transaxles and parts machines are hard to find. Because of the large adaptor plate used to adapt the engine to the bell housing it almost seems as if this transaxle was made for some other piece of equipment and adapted for use in the D grader. I have heard rumours that it is a Clarke transaxle and I also have heard rumours that the crown and pinion are a Ford truck crown and pinion. Non of this has ever been confirmed to my knowledge. Good luck. I also like dealing with Tony.
I figured it was from the shifter boot also. This machine sat for at least 4 years outside, with just a cover over the engine, and water still got in it too. The air cleaner was also full of water. I will just have to see how it goes with thold girl. Only gonna get used 2 or three times a year anyway. But it will be kept inside from now on.
Please be carefull about excess idling of that old girl ,those transmissions don't oil the upper shafts if they are'nt moving. Galion 503g and most 503A transmission parts will interchange ,the Galion transmission case has a sae 4 engine mounting thats about the only difference. I do know that 503 trans. will bolt onto a AC D frame and use AC final drives.
repowerguy, I did see a small Galion grader several years ago and I thought at the time that the transaxle looked just like the one on my D grader. It is possible that Clarke or some other company actually made the transaxle for use by Allis Chalmers and Galion. I also thought that it might have been used for a front end loader with the front end of the pinion shaft where the brake drum on the grader is mounted as a drive shaft for the front axle.
I have'nt seen these trans. in another app. other than in AC D and 503 Galion graders,but it may very well exist. I have a good bit of experience with Galions where I worked at before. We had two we put JD engines in and one with a 4-236T perkins, that one did'nt lack for power. These trans. will stand up to the upgrades,the axles can be the weak link. Keep a good boot on the shifter and change the final chains when they start slapping!
Finally managed to make it out to check out the old Allis I'd located this winter. S/N is in the 4000's, has the tilt front end, hydraulic circle rotation and aftermarket power assist steering. Needs some odds and ends but shouldn't take a lot of work to get it usable
Nice machine. Hope you never have problems with those split rim wheels. I have been told they are next to impossible to find. Also what kind of power steering is used, and do you have some good pictures?
If I remember correctly the rims are 7in. wide 20in. two piece wheels. Once upon a time school buses ran the same rim width. While they are expensive, STC makes 8.25 x20 grader tires, they make a huge difference in the graders performance. The tires don't clog with dirt when used at grader speeds.
I thought that I had posted a comment on the rims but I must have got sidetracked. Anyway, they are a flat rim with split ring. They were/are made by Goodyear and Firestone. They were very common on trucks and, as mentioned, school buses. I had to replace one on my D grader and the tire shop had a used one in stock. It was a little wider but it was off the front so that was no problem.
Sorry DonBC you did post about using truck rims, my mistake! Going back through the posts, OldIronHabit posted about a JD repower, was that a 503 Galion by chance? I did a couple at a former employer.
AC model D Motor Grader, Carb>>>> HI, Wow I did a google search for my motor grader and you mentioned early on that you had issues with water in oil and difficult starting. I have the same problem and I wish to know more about the Carburetor WD 45? How is the water getting into the oil? and how does the carb resolve the issue? Thanks and man you did a great job on the restoring project, I might have to give mine the same kinda of love..
I believe that the post about water in the oil was water in the transaxle. If you have water in the engine oil, from posts in the farm tractor section of allischalmers.com, there can be two or three sources for water in the oil of these engines, either rusted out casting (frost) plugs in the head under the valve cover, leaking 'O' rings at the bottom of the sleeves or a leaking head gasket.