Can any one enlighten me about these scrapers. WE had TS 360 and were told that we should get twin powered Ts562 We didnt But have allways wondered how they went, The Ts 360 was a good reliable machine was about 1959 t wasn't the quickest machine but every day you new you would get a full days work out of it,We allso had a few cat asrapers and if you got a days work out of them withourt someting going wrong you thought it had been a good day, They newer DW21s and newer than the Allis chalmers
Allis Chalmers did make a big twin was roughly in the same class as the 657 TS32, was called a TS 562 I do remember having some sales brochures on it some where but from memory it was around 870hp all up and about 40cu yds capacity. They also made twin engine pusher which was basicaly a 562 with the bowl removed the two tractor units hooked together back to back with a pusher pad on the front it was called 555. Cheers RDG.
I am interested in finding out about the ts 562 as one of local shire engineers was in the states on a scholarship and he was on a projecct where there were about ten of them working {so he said} and he reckoned he had never set eyes on a machine that could dig dirt likethem , they had a slight shovel nose cutting edge so they could really dig he was all for us buying them, he reckon they were 50yarders heaped so i,ll remain curious Thankyou RDG
Western Contracting had two new AC 562s on a job at Questa, NM. in '65. They were fast and hauled alot of dirt. No push-pull.
Hi lpnt65 Don't know whether this may help but found this photo of the AC 562. http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/allis-chalmers-562-motor-scraper-brochure# Cheers Gordon
Thankyou for youre info I appreciate your interest Regards Les
Sounds like quite a machine. Can anyone enlighten me on why they didn't become popular?
Found a bit more info on the 562, first produced in 1962 and ending in 1966 with about 130 produced, the 562 C was the last and was rated @ 44yds heaped. The book mentions one California contractor who had 24 562s of which 7 were tandem bowl units. There was also a prototype single engine version called the 560 but it is not known if any were produced. The 555 double ended tractor was beset by brake and final drive problems and only 4 or 5 were ever built. There is a couple of books on Allis Chalmers one which I have called Allis Chalmers Construction machinery & Industrial equipment by Norm Swinford has a lot of pics and info on all their machines. Cheers RDG.
Before their time and didn't have Cat or Euclid on them all of the ts 360 /ts260 and 469 were good reliable machines A company in New Zealand used earlier models ts300 aqs rear dumps in a coal mine also had fleet of Ts 360scrapers
That would probably be Downer Construction, they were part of the C P D group, Cable Price Downer, Cable Price were the Allis Chalmers agents in NZ back then and Downer used to run lots of Allis gear, big fans of HD 21s & Cat scoops and AC scrapers. Cheers RDG.
the contractor that built the earth fill for Barkley Dam here in west kentucky bought 5 new 562s, I ran one of them on the nite shift. They were very fast and had plenty of power, and moved a lot of dirt. They would run 35 to 40 miles per hr loaded. I often wandered what would happen if you blew a front tire. I found out one nite running full speed on a one mile haulroad. It sounded like a bomb had gone off, the right side droped down like the wheel had fallen off but the tractor went straight ahead, I carried my pan low when traveling on the haulroad, when it went down the pan hit the ground and stopped me, I didn't even hit the brakes. What suprised me most was the control I had of the machine under those conditions.
I believe Altfillish Const in L.A. California had a large fleet of these machines. Bill Signs (of Signs & Pinnick ) told me he worked on a freeway job job in San Diego Ca about 1965 building I-5 from Genesse ave to Sorrento Valley. They were great dirt movers, easy to load, but thier biggest downfall was the engines were turned up so much to make extra horsepower, he reported to me that sometimes they would only get about 500 hours out of a engine. They also had a 555 pusher, but it was a mechanics dream.
Had acouple of guys in Iowa that had 260's and 360's. Alot of engine problems.
Unusual for TS360 to have engine problems.Some of the 360s that i know of had 99.8% availability over 4years. no other problems in other areas either, On the TS 562 Scrapers i've found an older type Allis Chalmers product book with all info on their line up of machines in cluding Ts562 scraper. thankyou to everyone who has responded to my request
HI i know that this is getting a bit long in tooth bUt in regard to the Allis engines giving problems, were they like the Fiat allis loaders, built at that time , Some motors were unserviceable at 400 hours it was traced back to company that made engines for allis I understand that the metals used in Cylinder liners and the piston rings were incompatable , on the loaders Fiat came to party and replac ed all engines on pro rata basis So i wonder did the same Harvey manufacturing make the Ts 562 engine parts that would settle the question of short life of engine
I worked around the Allis-Chalmers 562's a lot back in 1963, Burt Altfillish/Fulton had a big spread of Allis-Challmers 562 and I think two 555 pushers, and J A Thompson had a big spread of 562,s I worked for Sully-Miller in Mission Viejo California back in 1963 and they rented from Thompson there Allis-Chalmers 562's with the twin can and they moved a lot of dirt on our Sully-Miller projects. I was also lucky enough to run a Allis-Chalmers 555 back in 1963 0n another project, and it took quit a long time to get used to backing up, you had to turn the sterring wheel to the left to make the 555 turn turn right, it was hard to get your brain to work in the wrong direction for the reverse turning, thank god I never ran into a coming scraper coming in next to you. The 555 had the power and the wait, with all the led in the tires it was a good pusher. I have a photo of the Altfillisch spread pushing one of the first Cat 657 scrapers with a D9G and a Allis-Chalmers 555 pushing together and the photo was taken by Shephard tractor and all you see is the 555 dozer and the front radiator pushing on the rear of the D9G.
lpnt65 i was involved wiith Both model scrapers on a 4year project the availabilty was 98% nothing else came close to these machin nes none of them were new at start of project. A few later model TS 360 that came in had few problems with the Con Torque but other than that they also had no engine problems One of them was absolutely abused by the Steerer ( thats All you could call him)he wasnt an operator should have been fired but it never had engine problem
You can get a model of it... not cheap! http://www.constructionscalemodels.com/productdetail.aspx?recid= 7019
http://www.constructionscalemodels.com/productdetail.aspx?recid= 7019 You can get a model of it, but it's not cheap!
Good Morrning lpnt65 yes I worked around the Allis-Chalmers 562's a lot back in the 1960's. Your local shire engineer worked with one of two Contractors J.A.Thompson or Burt Altfillish Construction, Burt had thirty? Allia-Chalmers 562's and two Allis-Chalmers 555's. J.A.Thompson had a lot of Allis-Chalmers 562's and quite a few twin scraper 562's. The Allis-Chalmers 562's and Euclid TS32's would run 40 mph loaded on flat ground where Cat's 657 would only run 32 mph, The 562's would literally run circles around the cat 657's. And yes the 562's and the TS32's were faster loaders, faster than the 657's. the cuttings edges were drop center bits, and every contractor then and today that is all they use on the big scrapers, very expensive$. I think the Allis-Chalmers 562's heaped from the factorf were 54 yds. The reason I think that Allis-Chalmers quit making equiptment is Caterpillar came out with 600 series scrapers shortly after the 562's came out and Caterpillar actually ran Euclid and Allis-Chalmers out of business. I know I hardly ever seen any green or Allis-Chalmers equiptment after Cat cane out with all there new equiptment after 1962. I hope this answers some of your questions Mike Nebergall.
hi there guys I aquired a 562c a couple of years ago, I haven't got to run it much because we need to re do some of the air hoses and hyd. hoses, it purrs around the yard and the air over electric over hydrulic controls are years ahead of their time. this machine is one of the last made and we don't know of many more around anymore. I can post some pics in the next couple of weeks if anyone would like.
sorry I mean electric over air, not air over electric, thought I better correct myself
G'day fiatallisguy Would love to see pics when you get around to it. These machines are so rare it is good know at least one is being preserved. Best of luck Cheers Gordon
Good morning fiatallisguy, I had the pleasure of working around the 562's and the twin scraper 562's a lot back back in the early 1960's. My thoughts were the 562 loaded faster than the original 1962 model 657 and they sure would run faster the 657 it would run 32 mph where the 562 ran about 45 mph. Do you still work your 562? are you a greading contractor and yes by all means post us some photos please. Mike Nebergall
hi there We are a grading contractor. We do dubdivison work for the city here and also oil well lease building and roads. We don't run the 562, we haven't got to load it with dirt since we got it do to an air pressure problem that we haven't had time to fix yet. we have run it around our yard just to see how it works, ect. We have had a few people contact us, worried we would part it out or scrap it, no need to worry about that as long as I am around. We are hoping this winter we will get time to fix it and maybe play with it on the weekends, but I don't think we'll ever put it into full production mode again. We currently run Fiat allis 262-b's. We also have a couple smaller allis scrapers we hope to get a chance to play with. we have a ts 160 and a 360. the 160 has a stuck engine but we have another one ready to drop in. it is in pretty nice original shape. the 360 came to us quite beat up so I don't know when we will get to fixing it. we also have a HD 21 that we like to play with as well. It runs really nice but need undercarrige. we had the 562 parked beside the 160 and I thinks the 160 would almost fit in the bucket. I wish I would have got a picture, one day they will be side by side again and I snap one. we also have an old ts 200 but it is apart on the hill. My grandfather bought it back when they were still making them for parts for another one they had. We have enough pieces that we could make a go of it but I think we'll do the other one first. the grill and hood are still there so thats the most important as far as I am concered.
Hi fiatallisguy, I am wondering if the fiat-allis machines are fairly popular in Canada, because here in po-dunk Kansas, I would say that I've only seen a few at best! My experience is mainly on CAT, so I'm just wondering how "bullet-proof" these things really are.
finally got a pic of our 562 today
Nice machine...what is the tire size on that beast? How many yds heaped? Look's like a runner!
new user name for lpnt65 have had computer problem Name now lesp90
In looking though the various threads here devoted to the 562, it looks like the early ones had cable lift aprons and your (FA Guy) is all hydraulic... it that right? Just curious... I hope you don't think we're gonna let you off the hook with just one pic, do ya? LOL! Alan
yes this one is all hydrulic, I am not sure on when they made the switch. I will try to get some more pictures in the spring, right now it is sitting in a snow bank. hopefully we will get to use it sometime this year and I can post a picture or maybe a video if I get the chance.
Snow... that's the white stuff, right? We don't have any here... and I'm not missing it. Please don't send any soon! Take care and stay warm! Alan
Good morning Fiatallisguy wheres the rest of the photos? I'm getting ancious to see them. Mike Nebergall
I want to run it probably more than you want to see pictures of it. However it hasn't hauled a load of dirt since it came to us. we have to fix an air valve and we haven't put the rear driveshaft in yet. (they roaded it to us with no brakes or rear engine, it is a 2 hour drive in a car @ 60 miles an hour). anyway the pic I posted is the only one I have right now, but believe me, if it so much as moves I will be snapping pics and posting them. we want to play with it, but we are so busy right now, we don't have the time to fix it ( dosent help it is out in the snow and isn't at our shop). I will get some more up someday, hopefully sooner than later.
I was enjoying my spare time this evening and the photo of your 562C really made my day. It made it so worth-while to get a successful search. I thought they had all but vanished. Probably the most well styled beautiful big scraper ever made. I travelled to California about 2005 to search for one and I did, with the help of a small contractor in Sacramento, locate a 562C converted to a water tanker . This machine was scrapped but the AC 25000 was sold to a machine enthusiast. Altfillisch Fulton used them at Wind Gap in the mid sixties I think, where a pumping station was built to pump water from Northern California, along the California Aqueduct, then over the Tehachapi Mountains to Los Angeles. The amazing thing was that after 40 years after that job finished I was able to take photos showing the same mountains as in an article about the Altfillisch 562's in an Allis Chalmers Reporter magazine featuring that job. That was a great day but it was very quiet without the scrapers! I love that 562 of yours and I hope to hear back from you. Good Luck Brian
Found this today... http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-J2yvbg8X9lc/TWsqNfTwMeI/AAAAAAAAGUA/2VXHLAJWahk/s1600/1952+001.jpg
That is pretty cool!
Neat brousher Alan. It's a shame Allas-Chalmers, and Euclid arn't still in the scraper business, giving Caterpillar fits, can you e-mail those serial numbers on the DW20 with the front end lifts, I screwed up and deleated them. Did you get the pictures I sent you. Oah, Good-morning. Mike Nebergall
Mike, will do. Trying to scan these and some other pictures and still learning how to do it. darn computer seems like it won't recognize something it has stored on itself.. figure that one out! Damn things... Alan
It does seem kind of odd that all the great names of the past have dwindled down to one big scraper manufacturer, and a few that make small ones..when you consider how many makes of off road articulated trucks there are now. Don't get me started on rubber tired tractor pulled scrapers.. whole different ball game. I'm betting Cat makes sure that it's best improvements patents stay up to date. And if you don't have a cushion ride of some sort, you ain't never gonna keep up with Big Yellow these days. Terex still has (?) the TS14.. but I think they sell about 2 a year. None around here, that's for sure. IH/Komatsu both tried, Komatsu gave up, and IH quit putting R&D into theirs.. those 430 series my former employers had didn't last long. The late 70's Fiat-Allis scrapers looked a lot more modern than their Cat counterparts, but I never actually saw any of them and I don't know how well they held up. Seem like all the rest still in business are satisfied with 12-15 yard paddlewheel types. Hoes and trucks may have taken a bite out of the scraper market, but it still seems wierd that there is only one large scraper maker now. I used to pour over old Engineering and Mining Journals at our local library, dated from the 50's to the 70's... things sure were more interesting when the field was more even! Alan
Goodmorning alan627b, I ran a brand new TS14 in 1963, that was a pleasure, the little scraper would out climb the 657's and they were new at the time. I never got to work around the TS32's, or the TS24, but it seemed that the contractors back then were more lack at repairing and the Allas-Chalmers and the Euclid's got a bum rap because everybody, I'm talking about the operators always said they were junk. There was a Contractor that had 10 or 12 TS32's and when he'd get down to three or four of the scrapers left running, he run down and refinance and rebuild all the green scrapers, there was scrapers parked all over the job with no engines or transmisions, stering rams, and then all of a sudden there would be a fleet of Euclid mechanics, and you know what all the scrapers would be up and running in less than a weeks time. It was the same with the 562's, according to everyone Euclid, and Allis-Chalmers were junk and the contractors and the operators they were to blame for fall of Allis-Chalmers, and Euclid down fall. I think Altfillisch was the contractor that killed Allis-Chalmers 562's. Mike Nebergall
If you are looking at the picture that fiatallisguy posted and the pictures posted from years ago, you will note that the front and rear ends have a squared off front vs. the older rounded design that AC used back in the early 60's. On that particular scraper AC put out a campaign to update it (I am not absolutely sure of this), but I did work at the servicing dealership for that particular machine and I am sure that this was the reason behind the different sheet metal, likely something with the cooling system was the underlying reason. The contractor that owned that unit was based in Saskatchewan, Canada and built many a mile of road. Interesting that some of those highways are well over 50 years old and where the 562 worked they are in better shape than highways built in the past 10 years. I asked him about this one day and he insists that because of the weight of the 562 the roadbed was hyper-compacted before the sheepsfoots got to it. That contractor when I started at the dealership in 1971 had a main fleet of 2 HD21P, one with a straight dozer and ripper, one with a pushin-cushion and push block, HD20, HD16DP, three TS460B, TS562C and a couple of TS260, a TS24 and TS14B plus a Koehring 405 Skooper and smaller auxillary equipment. I remember seeing the 562 for the first time, I was looking out a small window in parts and this monster came by, seemed to take forever, once in the shop I just had to climb all over it. Oh those where the days. If you have more pics please post them as I believe that it may be on only one left in one piece. Oh and as for roading the unit, it was roaded all over Saskatchewan for every job, too big at that time to haul, must have been a sight to have all those on the road at one time.
Hi, I have an old 260, manual trans with 844 engine. the engine has a spun bearing on the con rod. Any advice on replacement engine would be helpful. Thanks Terry
Hello , here is the front page of that 562 : If you need more info , tell me . Have a nice day , johan7
The 562 is now in Kansas, left here a couple of days ago for a museum of some sort. ( I don’t know many of the details) but they plan on restoring it and possibly demonstrating it at some point. Got some pics before it left next to the 160 and hd21
Where in Kanas? I would love to go see it. We travel that way now and then.
Great Pictures, shows just how big that 562 really is, shows how much dirt that a 33yd struck and 44 heaped scraper could move. Looks to me that the HD21-P was purchased from Western Tractor in Saskatoon about 1984-1986 by Hedgehaven Farms out of Kitscoty, Alberta, it should be Serial Number 14364, not sure of this but the canopy looks to be one that we sold. BTW the second owner of the Saskatchewan company that owned and operated the 562 for years, regrettably passed this summer.
The 562 is featured in this month’s Construction Equipment magazine in the back.
There is a guy on FB Allis Chalmers page that has just got hold of a 562 as he had some pics of it, might be the same machine. Rick Vosika is his name, has a huge collection of Allis gear from 41 down.
Just had a look at FB of the 562 there and its the same scraper has the same emblem on the draft arm. She has gone to a good home lots of cousins there all the same colour.
It would be great to it working with a 41 up its bum