I know we can't go into detail but I was hoping for some general thoughts/guidance. Can be vague answers just wanting a ballpark to see if we are way off. My father and I are disagreeing about what to bid a particular job. Any ballpark answer would be helpful. Estimating about 9 hours to do it all. About 4.5 hours with 11k lb mini and about 4.5 hours with 11k lb skid steer. Job description below please. Thanks in advance! This is kind of a 3 part job. We have to repair a leaking frost free hydrant at the fitting underground right at the base of the hydrant. I will haul in the mini and dug it out, repair the leak and cover it back up. Also will use the mini to locate a fiber optic cable where a new culvert will be put in. The fiber guys will come and do their thing then we will put in the culvert (customer will pay for) and use on site rock to set in place as part of an existing driveway. The rock is like 3+ inches which will have to be dug from an old existing arm of the drive and it is hard packed for sure. We will have to shave down the dirt bank a little leading into the ditch for the culvert with the skid steer. (Approximately a 20'x30' spot which will go from about a 0% grade to a 30% slope down to the road and back up a bit per state department guidelines for so the snow plows don't clip the culvert when they go by.) We have no material expense just labor expenses on this job running the machines. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Not my area of expertise but a few thoughts. Underground plumbing problems are seldom as easy as thought. Make sure that part is T & M. You mention state guidelines, any inspection required? Are you really planning to dig up a live fiber line with a mini ex without daylighting it first?
Hey Terex Herder thanks for your response! I really appreciate it! On the fiber line are you talking about bringing in a hydro vac system first? Around here nobody offers a service like that or has access to a rental. We always have to blind dig it. They come out and mark the line on the surface but never tell how far down it is. From there we always start digging real slow and do a lot of shovel work until we get to the fiber line then from there we get most of the material out with the mini until we get close and then switch back to a shovel. Then once we have it exposed then another company comes in and cuts and wires it (as in this case we're putting it in conduit under the driveway with connections on each side.) Then after they do their part we can proceed with the driveway.
I've never heard of finding a fiber line with a mini, that scares the hell out of me considering how pricey they are! But if you have to, as long as you exposing the area by hand first as you go you'll be fine, I would be figuring half a day with the mini and a laborer just to find the fiber line, i've only done it with gas lines but it takes quite awhile. But there is no way for 2 things like that I would be bidding 9 hours at a machine rate, I would be bidding WAY more. The hydrant fix could take 2 or 3 times as long as you expect it too. Just a ballpark without knowing how bad the job actually is, I would be bidding like $5k + any material or unforeseen. IMO there is no way 4.5 hours with the mini is enough, I bet you will be double that. Also got to figure there likely isn't many guys who would want to repair a hydrant, and big companies would either charge a fortune or not be interested in a small job.
Sounds like more than 9 hrs to me with 2 guys your going to put in at least 8 hrs a piece by the time you haul in and haul our plus if your waiting for another contractor that's another mob and day
How big is the hydrant ? Fire hose size or garden hose sized ? How deep is the frost line ? One doesn't just cover up a hydrant. You have to provide a drain field for it. Depth of dig is important for working room. One foot deep is arm's length. Any more and you'll need to get into the hole to work the fittings. More digging and back fill. Hydrant repair is a days work alone, if it goes well.
There is no way to accurately give any pricing advice with the description of this job without seeing the site and understanding the local rules and regulations. It's like asking how much does a car cost? Ballpark from left field - figure $10-15K. The least amount I'll send a crew of 3 and a mini out for a day for work like this is $3K per day. You have 3-5 days in all this at the best case scenario. CYA is my best advice.
Another Miller from Missouri, you wouldn't happen to be related to DMiller on here would you
I could see doing a frost free yard hydrant in a day mob, demob, with just the mini too. The other stuff is more complicated, and sounds a bit messy. Glad we don't have to mess with blind digs anymore.
Hey thanks for your response suladas! I greatly appreciate it! Just curious as to how you go about finding a fiber line? And I didn't think about it before but yes it will be a yard hydrant and there is a tee on the bottom running to a dead leaking line so we are just digging at the hydrant replacing the tee with an elbow and leaving the secondary line in the ground.
Hey Hosspuller thanks for your response!!! Yeah I should have said it is a yard hydrant and we can fix it ourselves. There is a tee with a secondary line separate from the supply line and its leaking so were just digging at the hydrant and replacing with an elbow and leaving that secondary line in the ground.
Nope I'm actually the only one in Missouri from our family!
Hey JLarson thanks for the response! Can you elaborate on not having to mess with blind digs anymore? What is your method or is your utility locating people providing some additional service or guidance? Thanks!
Thankfully never found a fibre line yet! But when i've had to run lines past gas lines I will dig down say 18" with the hoe (gas lines are 36" here) then have a guy on a shovel digging across the trench 6" at a time, then clear with hoe down to that height that way hoe will never touch the line, that is assuming you have access to dig along the line. But if there's any chance of using a hydrovac, I would do that instead in a heartbeat, it's fast and way safer.
I do know that being in Missouri we right out of the gate cannot charge what coastal states can get for rates. Also we are not by any large city so there goes being able to charge a higher amount as well. This hydrant dig is super straight forward and shouldn't take any more than a couple hours because the leak is super far away on a secondary line coming off a tee at the hydrant which we will be doing away with and replacing with an elbow and we are doing the work ourselves on the hydrant. So factoring that in I initially said around $1100 for everything and my old man had a meltdown. He thinks I need to charge more like $600. (just labor because customer is paying for material and we are using on site rock). We're going to need both machines which we own but if we had to rent both for 1 day each we would be looking at $500 a piece plus delivery charge and environmental fees and this and that fee.... So if we had to rent both for a day each it would probably be around $1,650 for everything once all charges and delivery was figured in so I thought $1100 was a dang good deal and I feel like its not enough but at the $600 the old man said I feel like I might as well stay home? I know I cannot get the prices some of you guys can just because of location and I know you need to see the job to get a good idea but still because of the large difference I really feel like I am cheating myself. I really appreciate the feedback everyone!!!
Oh I gotcha now! That makes perfect sense! And yeah I wish we could use a hydrovac but probably the closest one is 100+ miles away. Thanks suladas! I really appreciate your input!!!
We either have stuff daylighted or occasionally we do it ourselves with a rental unit if needed, if we're on the hook or someone working with/for us is on the hook or a line we want to know where it is, not where the bluestake flunky says it is. I don't see how you make money at 1100 or worse at 600 a day. Once you figure costs of fuel, maintenance, mob and demob time your labor on the job and the rest of your overhead in.
Can relate to MoDOT inspection once completed as had the two drive entries here inspected after installed for use approval even as were in use. My own was mostly grade work no culvert on House drive but had specifics in the MoDOT permit as to rock type and size for the Barn lot drive. Don't cut costs to the bone as losing money is not a point to working for a living, the property owner would have to pay market pricing or do as is if expense is beyond their capability. Company I work for had a frost free 'Leak', they are a excavation company so dug it up themselves, was not the FF but a spot in a coupled line some fifteen feet away that followed the line accessing grade around the FF hydrant. Inspect carefully before closing the hole.
OH GOD I HOPE NOT!!! LOL
Pricing is a real problem. I am in Mo . I needed a tree cut down had to have a bucket truck. I got it done for $350.00 witch i thought was dirty cheap but i also had a bid of $1500.00. I have had some people want me to haul gravel i dont want to get in to that kind of work with my truck but i have done a little. I had a guy ask me why not i told him if i was full time i would know what to charge and if i had a breakdown or tire problem i could spread the cost out over several jobs. Dont ever do a job cheap price cutting hurts every one. If you want to do this work find out what others are charging. Make a money or stay home.
Did you ever think about passing on the job entirely? The job sounds fairly complicated and if you and your old man can’t come to terms, maybe that’s a sign you don’t need to do it. What you don’t want to happen is to put yourself in a position where you aren’t going to make any money. If it were me I would ask myself this question… Is it worth 600 bucks to haul two machines back-and-forth? Probably not. As one of the guys said above you’ll have more time hauling the machines back and forth than what you are charging for. And that’s before you even start any work! Ive worked around fiber before. If you even knick that line you are done. To me, this is a multiple thousand dollar job and at least 2 days.
You didn't say how busy the fiber line is, but a $50,000 bill for repair isn't uncommon. You would be billed for all the revenue the line didn't generate, and it's up to them how fast they repair the line.
I would never assume the gas or any other line is 36 inches deep. Never! I've seen gas as shallow as 1 foot before. And if you're going down 18 inches to start finding the fiber and you hit it, you're paying for the repair. Either hand Shovel, or use a probing rod. It's a lot easier to dig a hole next to the marked utility and dig sideways to find the utility.
Gas line to our house was not down 36” like my line to the other building had to be. Gas utility had it down less than 12”. I have repaired lots of underground electrical that was marked wrong. Ground settles, gets regraded, landscaped. I would not use a digging machine to find fibre if you are on the hook for a repair. The risk needs to be reflected in your price.
I don't live in a coastal state or a large metro. I wouldn't even think moving 2 pieces of equipment and 9 tractors hours of work for 1100 dollars much less 600. 9 tractor hours plus hand repair and locating lines is at least 2 days work without knowing really anything about the job. I'm in business to make money and there are people out there willing to pay good money to have their problems solved. Equipment is expensive, insurance is expensive, everything is expensive. Get paid for your work; to say nothing of the risk of working near the fiber.
Hey Old Doug thanks for your response! I totally agree with you and I have been working on finding some competitive price points but it's been rough and people around here are as tight as they come!
Hey Camshawn thanks for your response and I agree the risk of the fiber portion needs to be reflected in the price and now I am going to go back and build more in for it. Much appreciated!
Hey savman thanks for your response! Yes everything in this field is very expensive especially repairs!!! LOL I am not exactly new to the industry but I am new to figuring pricing as I now own my own business. I am starting to see that my pricing is usually a lot less that if someone would go to the rental store and rent the equipment... and then they would still have to do the work on top of that! I appreciate your input!!!
Was just told a story today of a fiber line getting hit at 8" below grade. Knocked out half the town. Utility location company didnt even show it on there site plans.
I've seen some real shallow ones out here when they plow them in.
Maybe I shouldn't reply to this one, but then I got to thinking, the op was asking for peoples thoughts so here goes. I'd have to agree to a certain extent with savman and could take it a whole lot farther still by stating if your a business owner who plans on being in business for any length of time, you'd better hurry up and rethink this whole situation and figure in the liability side of this venture. I'd have to disagree with CM on his pricing, he didn't say anything about a liability waiver if anything gets hit, all those costs get added on top of the bid price to toss the liability back onto the property owner, if your needing help writing that up, your insurance company would have a form for the owner to sign so you don't have to hire a lawyer to write one up for you. I think what most are trying to tell you is, walk away, better yet run away and then start pricing your labor, equipment and everything else much higher so you can stay in business.
A main gas line, ya it might only be 30" but I know it's not going to be 18", and if it is not my problem, no liability for hitting it if it's off by that much. Gas lines to houses are a totally different beast. No idea on fibre and I wasn't speculating on it, any time i've dug around fibre it's always under the sidewalk. Also gas lines are totally different then fibre, i've found lines where they shouldn't be with a hoe and never damaged them, plastic gas lines are really tough and provided you're using a smooth bucket and ground isn't frozen, a good hoe operator should never damage one.
That is exactly why you get a first call, provided you aren't digging within 2m of any marks you're not on the hook for hitting it.
That's a really nice theory, but when an explosion happens when someone marked it wrong and there is a large crater and perhaps your dead, I'd doubt very much if the locate company is going to be blamed for miss marking that gas main, since where the crater is, the hole can be about 50 feet across or more. Like what happened in Iowa a couple decades ago when everyone involved was killed and the crater blew a hole in the field over a few hundred feet across and almost 50 feet deep. I think on that one the contractor was still to blame when it all came down in the end, even though he was dead along with all his crew, same for the NRCS people and also the gas pipeline crew there doing to marking and onsite along with all the equipment, pickups and everything else nearby that was consumed in the fireball and 100 foot tall fire plume till they finally got the gas shut off and then when things cooled down they removed what was left of the remains that were not consumed by the fire or what they could find of them anyhow spread across a few hundred acres of farmland. The other side of the whole not to blame issue is this, how much is it going to cost in court to prove your not liable, because more than likely your going to have to hire an attorney and go to court to get out of not paying a huge sum of money when things really go south. I think the whole "when your close to the locate mark you should hand dig" is the phrase that will get you in court, and the last I was told, neither the locate company or the utility company care if it takes you a week or more hand digging every day to find their line so you don't hit it. A smooth bucket doesn't mean much in my area, since the plow crew will lift up as they put in the line to clear obstacles like rocks, buried tree stumps and junk and the list is endless. I'm also not sure about your state, but mine its illegal to hook your locating equipment onto anyone's utilities so you can locate out "their" lines. That's private utilities and anyone uses or tampers with their boxes, peds or lines to hook onto without written permission, your breaking the law before you even start to dig. So I'm not sure where anyone thinks they can just hook their stuff up to locate these lines themselves and do it legally, because you can't where I live, now does everyone do it, the answer is yes, if caught doing it, not sure, I don't know of anyone who has been caught in the act before. There is one more issue nobody every talks about, all the dead and abandoned lines still in the ground, seems phone companies are the worst, every time they have a line go dead or bad, they just plow in a new line and leave the old one in the ground, so there are many areas I dig in, where there is only one "live" line, but up to a dozen lines marked, you can decide which one is the live line, but since they have such crappy maps, the locate company marks them all, now go start hand digging to avoid them all is the jest of it in my area, not to mention all the times they have been hit and repaired, many of the older repair guys will coil a loop of wire so when the hole settles the loop can take the stretch out of the line and not break it, so if your digging with a smooth bucket and you hook the loop by following the line with the bucket, you still hit the line that was marked and you can again pay for the repair. Now lets discuss fiber, there is supposed to be a tracer or marker strip buried shallower above the line, but when that line tears as its being put in and there is a stretch a few feet to several hundred feet long there is no tracer installed, nobody goes back and puts that in, now you have an non traced portion of fiber in the ground you can figure out where it is, same principles apply about lifting the plow up and going over obstacles and also where they bore under things like creeks, gas mains, roads and everything else, there can be gaps in their tracer marks in those locations as well and we've found loops buried at those junctions in fiber too to allow for stretch, which they claim is never done............yea about that claim. Not sure anyone has had this next issue happen, but when something is hit, and everyone shows up, the marking crew will again hook up their locating equipment and start to remark everything, so you need to take photo's before, during and after something your digging near to prove the marks were off in the first place and you need someone onsite of your crew to make sure nothing is remarked after the fact when it was marked wrong the first time. Many of the locating companies are given orders as standard procedure to go remark the lines and do it right the second time around so they don't have to pay the bill, after all it pretty hard to prove in court when the line was marked correctly, I've even been told by them, they were instructed to mark the line, then knock dirt over their "new" marks to make it look like the second set of lines where there first, after all, when your digging, you literally cover up the marks left the first time around. With fiber anything goes for costs, the courts have not yet caught up with the technology to be able to put a hard cost for repairs on those YET. Older wires they have, legally in my state anyhow, they can only charge a certain fee to repair those, but with fiber, I'd guess it could be hundreds of thousands of dollars if they want to, and with that much money at stake, you'll bet your a** there will lawyers show up in court to attempt to collect it. So with no cap in the potential liability involving fiber and the op only charging a few hundred to maybe a few thousand dollars, to me the risk is too high, couple that with if there is an incident and something gets hit, you'll have a claim to deal with and possible much higher insurance rates or worse yet, being cancelled completely and then what? it goes on your record and nobody will insure the new guy in business insurance.................so your done before you even hardly start?? And this is a good idea to who?? And many are arguing about how its safe to dig with a smooth bucket near fiber or anything else and how good of a job a good operator needs to be with his machines, I'm thinking many are missing the whole point to this discussion completely. But maybe we should talk about the only one with any commons sense in the whole equation, the customer, who's wanting things in writing, a bid to do the job, so if something does go south, his butt is covered completely and he's in the clear of it all, and has a cap on his out of pocket costs and everything is in writing and signed and dated, my vote is for him, the only one with enough brains to cover his own a**, he's the guy who's got it figured out in the first place and should be a very successful business owner if he's not already, maybe someone should be taking notes on how it should be done and he seems to be the only one with it all figured out, so I'll have to vote in favor of him being the smart one, he can even get it done so much cheaper than renting the machines and doing the work himself and save all the liability to boot, he's even got it figured out if he cries somewhat about not having any money someone will feel sorry for him and coming running to his aid.........for virtually nothing. I take that back maybe he's running for congress and now he's just practicing his campaign speech on for size. Maybe the op should contact his banker and insurance company and run this whole deal by them first, and see what he's told, if neither will tell him anything, I'd first start by looking for another banker and insurance company and go from there.
In this area, anyway, the fellows marking the lines are like the company mechanics in vetech63's thread, near worthless. The marking company has one full time guy year around for about 10 counties. When spring rolls around, they hire another 3-6 people, mostly new hires. Then when things slow up in the fall, they lay them off. Almost no continuity. I had one this spring where the locate guy couldn't find a 12" steel main gas line with risers at every property line. I knew where the line was so I wasn't to worried. When the company man came out to witness within 50' of their line he was livid. After a few phone calls from the gas company boss, the marker company sent out a better hand to assist the original marker guy and provide training. By that time I was done.
Like I said to the original OP - "It's like asking how much does a car cost?" I was pricing a Toyota and Randy your pricing a Mercedes..
Years ago now, I was supposed to dig around a local liquids pipeline and the idiot they sent out couldn't find their line, after about a half hour of finding nothing, he wanted me to sign his paperwork so he could go to another job. I hadn't dug a thing yet and he planned on leaving without even locating the line, let alone tell me how deep it was in the ground, let alone supervise me as dug directly over the line?? nothing?? just leave with his paperwork signed was the jest of it. Long story short, once the paperwork is signed, the contractor isn't supposed to go into the corridor of the pipeline again without a company rep on site, and if I do, I take full responsibility for anything I damage and basically am breaking the law by digging in the corridor unattended..............and I was to sign this before I'd dug anything?? ***, and a whole lot more came to mind in about two seconds flat. I couldn't believe it, here is a well known company and this is their idea of how to do things and this is the idiot they sent out to do the locates. I about came unglued over this incident and when I pressed the company after I'd refused to sign the paperwork, I was told to shut up and sign it and I quote, I should be just fine on my own? Too bad for them I knew enough about the law to demand action be taken and in no certain terms about now would work just fine for me. It did get located out and AFTER I was done the paperwork got signed but, I should be just fine on my own was even a good idea to tell the contractor, what moron dreamed up that response.
I don't trust 811 any farther then I can throw them. Saw one guy roll up, get out of the SUV with a can of orange and paint 2 lines and was gone in under 3 min on one of our jobs the other day. Dude missed 6 other coax lines for the ISP lol.
Don't know the laws in AZ but here in AL take pics of the locate marks/flags and have a valid time wise locate and you're in the clear - dig away.
Years ago when I worked construction, we were changing out some under ground vaults for the city. It was their stuff and their locate. Gary the operator snagged some wires-he stopped then cop cars come flying up from every direction and surrounded the bank one block down. One pulled up got out with gun drawn and told us to get back a robbery in progress. Gary tapped him on the shoulder and pointed to the teeth on the bucket, cop turned back looking down the street towards the bank after a short minute he holstered his gun because the light finally came on.
Same but still the whole idea should be to try and avoid outages best as possible. The ISP's field super and I figured out where everything else was with only a little more work.
You also need to note if anyone got back to you to clear you to do the work. I've had it a few times where they contacted me via computer email to let me know, they were there, had started but had technical issues with their equipment and were working on the problem and I wasn't cleared to dig just yet and the problem was being addressed. The only issue with this is, I checked the email in the morning and there wasn't anything yet, I left the house and headed to the job site and when I got there, their time was up and I started to dig, nobody called me so I didn't know about the technical issues involved. Long story short, we didn't hit anything and if we would have, not exactly sure what would have happened per say, but after some checking I found out technically they were there and had started, but not finished at the exact minute their time was up, they did in fact notify me of an issue that prevented their finishing and I was indeed informed I wasn't cleared to dig quite yet. So after that ordeal, I've always made sure everyone involved got back to me, in some way shape or form, if nothing is marked or not all the utilities are marked, I call in a no response ticket and tell the call center who wasn't responded yet via phone, not email, you can request a response anyhow you want and its up to the response center to get a verification of some sort as to why they never responded. After about two response calls the attorney general for your state is notified and that office can handle the issue. Just went through all this a couple days ago, six utilities were in the dig site, five were marked, the sixth told me over the phone, the proper permits were not filled out so they refused to do the locate [*** is that about] so after I got my attorney involved he too was told the same thing, apparently there was a misunderstanding about something in my write up on the ticket, that if I did the work, a permit was required and none was on file, again *** it was for a site survey for demoing a house, not the actual demo and a locate can't be refused for any reason by anyone. So after two no response tickets, I'm thinking someone got a royal a** chewing and 5 hours after the locate time was up, I got the phone call stating nothing of their stuff was in the dig site, it was on the other side of the sidewalk two feet away. The guy doing the locate asked what was up and I explained it to him, and he said, you know nothing is in the dig site, why the fuss. The answer was simple, the twit that gave the BS excuse ticked me off and the law clearly states how things are to get done and I now have a known complaint against that person with a track record of having problems, after a certain number of documented complaints and violations, action will get taken against the entity or persons within that entity causing the problem, so if your questioned, just tell whoever the truth, the twit threw the ticket away and it was never given to you to go do the locate................................. A few years ago, many companies were giving the excuse of putting you on an extended locate list..... [***] is that, so after some checking I found out it was indeed nothing but an excuse that doesn't fly legally. They'd call or email you and tell you you've been put on an extended locate list and your not yet cleared to dig, they'd state they now have another x number of days to do the locate. Yes they did contact you, no your not cleared to dig, but legally they can't just give themselves x number of added days to get the locate done. If you agree to it over the phone, they indeed get the x number of days added to their time frame and it is then legal, if you say no, we're digging at the exact minute your times up, their screwed and they have to have it done. Some were pretty cleaver on how they worded it, one went as far as needing someone of my crew on site to explain where their stuff was, so we made an appointment the next working day, which was on a Monday and the locate was supposed to be done by Friday morning, turns out nobody showed up, but they got their three added days to do the locate anyhow because I agreed to wait till Monday when it worked into my schedule to meet them. Others would ask if my equipment and crew was onsite and what time I expected to be there, after I'd tell them they'd then state fine, you said your not there and so then your agreeing we have until that time to get the locate done, giving them the extra time to do it with you agreeing to it being recorded. I think a lot of complaints were made over those ordeals and I've not had anyone try that in the last few years.
I've gone through crap with mainly city utilities. Last one, locate called in on a Monday, we were near a RR track so there were like 11 million entities that had to come mark **** lol. Friday rolls around, the guys are digging over the weekend, lowboy is dropping equipment and everyone has located but the town water department. I made several emails about who's fault it was if we hit something cause they blew off their locate responsibility and calls up the gov food chain till a minion with a can of blue paint appeared like a miracle lol.
I agree the cities are the worst, but I'd still have filed a no response with one call, after about two no responses, in my area the response center turns it over to the states attorney generals office and they can deal with the idiots in the city. After enough complaints, maybe and thats a huge maybe, something might happen to the city, but in the mean time you have a track record of them not responding to any locates, so in the future if you were to hit a utility they were supposed to mark, you could argue they have a long history of not marking anything and I've had dozens of no repsonses filed to back that up. Around here the rage is now, with certain counties, instead of cleaning the rural road ditches, they slide the sides of their roads off and narrow them up, use the material they slid off and fill the ditches in instead. In the meantime, they literally cover up the phone peds, some might be only covered by a foot or two, some might be covered up completely so you can't even see where they even were. So I call in a locate for the local property along one of these roads, and I get a hold put on my locate ticket with no end date for it. The first one I had I got the call stating I'm NOT cleared to dig and my ticket has a hold put on it, had to make some calls to find out what was going on, turns out the phone peds were all covered up by the county and the locate company couldn't find them, so they in turn had to call in their own locate so they can dig to find their ped, then hire someone to do the actual digging, who in turn needs to do their own locate to do the digging, what a circle jerk, so it might take up to a couple weeks before my locate is done and I'm cleared to do my actual digging. I've had up to 20 locates at one time put on a temporary hold for weeks over these idiots, I know the locate people are upset, along with everyone else who's been delayed. Now we automatically know we need three weeks lead time if its in a rural area along a newly graded county road, talk about a paperwork nightmare keeping track of where we can and can't go to get something done. So that whole three days thing to do a locate, just toss that out the window and forget about it completely, its now weeks and legally everyone can get by with it, due to a county who's too lazy to clean its road ditches. I've told the phone companies they had better be charging the county for every hour of time wasted on this ordeal, and the last I was told it was 1700 bucks a ped if you damage one, the county should have to pay that as well, plus the cost to relocate the ped on top of the ground again, and I told one phone company rep, toss in a few grand on top of that for my aggravation, someone might as well collect something from them for that, it seems I can't.
I HATE bid work. Usually I decline bidding. I have to bid lower than some optimist. Your project is simple enough, except for the stuff already in the ground. Finding a fiber optic cable is going to involve a lot of hand work. I'd say you are WAY off in time.
Bidding translates into lowest bid usually, but not always, after all only the lowest of those that bid will end up with the work. So if everyone thinks the same and bids it at four times the price of what it would actually take to do the job, there is a huge profit margin in bid work. Most bids are usually time sensitive meaning they have a completion date and time involved. A customer of mine, who's son in law got tired of doing the whole lowest bid thing, was busy doing concrete work, site prep type work and ended up with more jobs to bid than he'd ever get done, so the first few times he bid the jobs at four times the usual bid so he didn't have to do it, but kept his company name up for future bids, turns out he got the job anyhow. So as they say, one thing leads to another and before long his standard bid was 10 times what he would normally bid the job at and he was still ending up the winning bidder. So in four years time his company grew from 40 employee's to over 400 and today, he has a full time staff of people doing only one thing, figuring out just how high he can actually bid a job and still end up doing the job, he's also figured out why he got the jobs even with higher bids verses those that bid less, and once he got that figured out, I guess you could say the sky's the limit on potential profits. As he put it, bidding is a scam and sham just waiting for a sucker to bite and take the bait and the best part is, they come to him, he doesn't even have to go looking. So that whole low ball bidding............................not everyone has that same mentality. Its not always about low price, there is a host of reasons why some do things, if you can figure out why bids are taken and why sometimes the low ball bid isn't the winning bidder, you'll have a much better handle on your own business and also profits, if your only thinking lowest price wins, your going to go broke very fast. As they say there is profit and potential in every job, if your doing the same exact same thing as everyone else the exact same way, you really offer little valve to anyone else, after all anyone can do it, if you can figure out where you excel and basically nobody else can figure that out, and customers notice and want your skills, then your not really bidding against anyone else, your bidding against yourself...............so keep that in mind as well, its all in how you view it. Low ball bidding, I'd not waste my time even looking at the job, now if it takes a certain skill set, one that few posses but I do, then I'm all over like a wet sweat. Take it for what its worth.
I'm more an electrician. I get calls for installation of a paddle fan, homeowners are looking for up front pricing. I tell them over the phone, $300. never hear from them again. Most projects involve a bunch of unknown pitfalls. I predict them, someone else gets the job. In my experience, the only way to be low bidder is to cut your own throat. A very few exceptions. At the beginning of Covid a family wanted 100 items a home inspector had cited. They had sold their 200 year old home, & would be moving out 2 weeks before the closing. I gave a price. The seller continued to shop for a better price. A few days before move out, he called in a panic, wanted us to start. I responded: "I thought you were shopping for a better price." I gather he couldn't find an optimist electrician.
Septic installation is a great example in the excavation industry, everyone bids the job, a home owner will get a dozen bids and takes the lowest bid almost every time. I refuse to bid them at all, period, a complete waste of time. Years pass and all of the sudden they have issues, have several people in to fix it, who don't actually fix it, they call for bids on the repairs each time. A year or two pass again and still its not fixed and working, again bids are taken on the repair, this time around anyone who's been there before is eliminated and not called. So with enough time, the home owner runs out of people to bid on this job, so when your down to about one, ME, I bid it so high, as in thousands over what it should cost, I will eventually end up with the job, having seen so many, there are only a few options left at that time to fix the problem, each costing a few hundred bucks, so in total we're dealing with maybe 600 bucks to fix it, by bidding a few grand, its usually only one issue at a couple hundred, with bid in hand I do the repair in a few hours and I'm gone, two grand in hand and I can then move onto the next one...............only having to wait it out till the homeowner gets tired of the unfixed issue. At about 1500-1800 dollars profit for a few hours time [if I drag my feet to take that long] its far more profitable than installing new septic systems and dealing with sanitarian and the paperwork and spending a day or two doing the install at a rock bottom price of making nothing. The only thing I need to ask upfront is, how many times has the system been looked at, who looked at and worked on it, and how long has this been an issue, that's all I need to know where the homeowner is in the repair stage to know when to bid and what to bid, each time before the end and final deal, I just say I'm too busy to bid this go around, if the problem persists, contact me later, or ask who recommended me, if its a bank or prior customer, they know the drill and the cost and I know its time for me to bid the repair...............and a couple grand a system, times how many systems I can fix per year, with virtually nothing invested and gain the reputation on how to solve the problem via banks and homeowners, its actually quite lucrative if your into that sort of thing, after all, everyone wants to install new, nobody wants to repair or fix something old. If anyone actually figures out what are the root causes of the septic not working, the gig might be up and others might jump on the bandwagon and take the work, which is no bid deal, there are literally hundreds of other opportunities out there for similar things involving bid jobs, now if the owners are trusting and cost conscious and willing, then the price has to be throttled back considerably, with trust comes far more work with just a phone call, with enough phone calls, those gravy money trains tend to dry up somewhat, but other work picks up to take its place, in the end it all washes out in the form of overall profit. With enough jobs and some reputation behind you, nobody questions the costs and basically nobody cares about costs, they just want their stuff to work like it should, again there's a nice profit, so the question remains, who wants to low bid anything and waste their time competing against all the other low ball bidders to see who can go broke first??