I am needing some perspective on this current dilemma I am in. I am a good employee. I show up everyday and on time. I have gone above and beyond the call of duty numerous times. I don't require a lot of direction and I don't need someone to keep me motivated to complete any job. I am extremely good at my job in fact. I am one of the best of 3 guys in the shop or field company wide. Okay enough stroking of the ego. I have worked with this company for 3 years and about to start a 4th. Like I said before. I have gone above and beyond the call of duty numerous times for this company. With that being said. It hasn't always been puppies and rainbows. The company has on a few occasions has done things that pissed me off. Some of those things were misunderstandings and some were just flat out arrogance from the boss. And some were people trying to dump their responsibilities on me. I have let a lot of things slide because I generally like the people I work with and I don't want to be hot-headed and quit. Just because I can't put my ego aside and look at it from another perspective. Plus I have a family that depends on me too bring home the bacon. With that being said. Almost a year ago I needed the company to go above and beyond for me. And they took the stance of we don't have to and if I don't like it I don't have to work there. That pissed me off for several reasons. I don't think that the company owes me anything and I understand that. But I really wasn't asking for anything unreasonable. What had happened was my daughter came down with covid and I had to stay home for two weeks without pay. I asked to continue working. Because I am one of the lucky ones that covid doesn't effect. And also because I work in the field. I don't have to come in the shop and I don't deal with anyone personally. I show up, diagnose and order parts. No contact with anyone, but through phone and email. I was told no. I reminded him that when any office personnel get covid. They get to work from home. I then asked for any kind of clerical work that I can do. The answer was still no. I resisted and was told if I didn't like it that I didn't have to work there. That really pissed me off. Even more so because I have pulled their ass out of the fire many of times. And here I am in a jam and I was told tough luck. So fast forward to now. There is a machine in the shop right now that has been there for over 90 days. All of the parts have finally come in and management wants it finished before the end of the month. It is a big job that I didn't tear down and now I am being asked to complete the job. The guy who's job it is went on vacation and was supposed to return today, but now has "covid " . The machine is three bays away from mind and my box is to big to just move it across the shop. Plus I just don't want to take on such a large project that I didn't tear down. And because I don't want to do it because going above and beyond in this company doesn't net you ****. My attitude as of late is I was a good employee. You could've asked me to go above and beyond and I would've done without thinking twice. But since they showed me how much I mean to them. My attitude is simply this. I will only do what is my job. I will still show up every day and on time. And my work will still be top shelf. But anything beyond that you are **** out of luck. You didn't care when I was in a bind and treated me as a expendable employee and not a professional. So employee I am so employee is what you get. Am I out of line? Should I die on this hill and draw the line in the sand? Should I just walk away and get another job? I really don't want to quit. I hate changing jobs and I will lose a good chunk of change because I'm not fully vested with the company. When that happens I will be debt free and I will make a career change. But that is 1.5 years away? Please refrain from any politics. I just need some perspective from employers and employees.
I would explain the problem of you having not done the tear down and the problem of all the walking back and forth to your box. Then tell them you will be happy to do what they ask, just be aware that it will likely take a little longer than usual. Then do the job. Don't bust your ***, but don't go out of your way to hurry either. You can come off as still looking out for them.
Sounds like you get a lot of self satisfaction out of this job. It is more than just a job isn't it I worked with a guy who had some what the same predicament and his answer was "Why should I let an ******* like that drive me out of a job I love." I would say don"t do anything life changing over something trivial that you will have to live with for a long time. This too will pass. Just my 2 cant worth. d.d.
Take a nice, long, well deserved vacation, at least (3) weeks long, during the busiest season. And don't take your work phone.
This is more or less about boundaries. I really don't think that their wants should impact me in a negative way. The main issue is that they don't give a **** about me and my problems, so why should I give a **** about their problems? There are two bays with two mechanics on either side of this project. Why can't one of those guys be bothered to take on the project? It really is a big imposition to ask me walk back and forth to my box and then to put away my tools every evening. In my eyes it is highly inefficient for me to do it.
At this point I don't really care about the self satisfaction. I get enough of that by completing my own jobs and from helping the younger guys learn.
That's not a bad idea. I will give that some thought.
Maybe this spot looks nice eh ?
I could not imagine a good mechanic having a difficult time finding work. I would maybe start looking for another job tentatively or go out on your own. Nothing stupider than to disrespect a mechanic if you have fleets of equipment...
If you quit, and change jobs then moving your tool box will be much farther than the next bay. You need a rolling cart to just pile the tools in to transport to the next bay. I'd make sure they understand if something ends up not right from you doing the job it is because you didn't tear it down. And tell them its going to take much longer than normal because you have to study the books on this one. What your describing is a normal outfit to work for, in my day the boss would always sing the no money blues, I had a few projects I took apart that sat for close to a year before the money was finally available to finish it. I never liked working for someone else's business, but did pretty much all my working life. So what is the project?
It's more than the next bay. And I just spent a bunch of money buying this box moving out of the service truck. I don't want to buy a tool cart. I have been doing this for 25 years and as soon as I am out of debt. I will be going into semi retirement. That also coincides with me being fully vested. As I read you guys post. I believe that I am out of line. But you guys are from a generation before me and feel more loyal to who you work for. I use to feel that way, but after 25 years I am loyal to no one but my family and myself. I may be out of line, but I feel that I am entitled to just work on my own projects from my experience and expertise alone. No one has gone behind me. And let's not forget the cavalier attitude that the company has already taken towards our relationship working together. I don't feel that I owe this company anything more than a job well done and that is a job I started. Like I said before. I have gone above and beyond for them before and it has netted me nothing. I would like some perspective on why I should do it from an employers standpoint. Especially after making it clear to me that it doesn't matter if I work there or not.
Generally speaking (and there are truly all kinds of exceptions to this): I think in a corporate/ dealership structure, the manager of a location will tend to treat employee's differently than in any personally owned/ partnership construction/ equipment company. The manager of the dealership gets judged by his higher ups solely based on his particular stores numbers. Employees are a number within his overall numbers. A private company that's hiring you to fix their stuff- generally knows the equipment needs fixed, and they need you to do it. The further you get into generations of ownership in a private company, the more "corporate" a company will become. Of course the more "corporate" it is- the bigger the overall numbers ($$$) will be in the company, and hence the more they can pay you and the better benefits you can usually expect to have. But it becomes all less personal. So you have the general choice- stay small for less $$ and more personal, or go for the big bucks and benefits, and be just a number. Of course I know guys with their own small company that treat all their employees like dirt, and there are also large companies that go out of their way to treat their employees fairly.
And now that I've said all that- If you worked for me: Not wanting to roll your toolbox two bays over, to work on a different piece of equipment- comes across as petty and prima donna ish to me, that box has wheels on it (and I know you can roll it to a different employeer too )- roll it over two bays- and get to work- you're getting paid by the hour and it needs fixed. They didn't tell you a limit of time to put it back together, and I don't think your working flat rate. You get paid to turn wrenches, and these are the bolts that need put in today. It ain't all fun and that's why they pay you to do it. And I would have paid for you to be off for the two weeks to take care of your daughter during covid. Or put you on unemployment or gave you a bonus of extra vacation/ however I could have made it work out in the books. Good people are hard to find and it has to be a two way street. Sorry its not working out where you are at- I don't know that I would stay a year and a half somewhere I didn't like just to be vested. There's too many other people looking for help- find somewhere you feel better working at, life's too short, and you spend far to much of it working to be miserable. Too many companies hold $$ hostage - gotta stay with me those 5 years or you're losing this $$$ that you've supposedly earned. That's B. S. If I've earned it- I can't lose it.
Crane operator I agree with you about it being petty not wanting to move my box. And if the circumstances were different I wouldn't have any issue taken on a project like this and moving my box. I do enjoy the challenge. But there are some facts that I can't get past. 1) they have already made it clear to me that my experience and expertise isn't appreciated, 2) there are two able bodied mechanics on either side of this job, 3) although my box has wheels. It is big and not easy to move from one end of the shop to the other. As far as the vestment money goes it wouldn't bother me too lose it if it came down to it. I really don't want to lose it but it wouldn't hurt me if I did. I like the people that I work with and I don't want to take another job. Because the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know. I am generally biding my time until I can go on to the next chapter in my life. Whether I stay here or go work somewhere else. I am done turning wrenches in a year in a half.
Is there some other reason(s) you don't want to work on this machine? They might want you to work on it because you will do a better/the best job repairing it. Kind of like showing you they do in fact appreciate you/your experience but won't come right out and say it. A compliment in disguise. If you're paid by the hour and potentially have to walk back and forth to your toolbox it's on their dime not yours. They must have a cart you can put a bunch of tools on to roll over to the job. Not letting you work while someone in your immediate household has covid could just be a policy they have that would apply to everyone. It's not the same as working from home. How do you know covid won't affect you? I know a couple people that thought it was blown out of proportion... until they got it.
The main reason I don't want to do it because I didn't tear it down. You don't know where bolts are and a lot of time is spent looking for pieces. During assembly you will invariably have to undo a bunch of work because you didn't see that this part should have went on first before all the rest. And had you been the one who tore it down you would know that. It's not putting on a turbo that someone else removed. A third of this truck is disassembled. You are probably right about the compliment without saying. But it is just more than the covid thing there are other things they have done that I don't want to get into. Those things weigh heavily in me not caring about their problem. As far as covid goes. I had it twice and didn't have any symptoms. The first time I had it I wouldn't have ever known had my wife didn't get so sick. The second time was from my daughter and we both didn't have symptoms. She was tested when we went to the doctor for a unrelated reason. That being said. If I was an employer and I made a covid policy that required you to isolate. I would pay you. There were things that they could've done to let me work from home. But they chose the take it or leave it approach rather than value me as a employee. This last three years with their attitude of I'm expendable. Has made me lose heart for the job I used to love so much. That is why I will be making a career change in a year in a half. I will probably still will bend wrenches, but not for a living and certainly not for a employer.
I hated to have to to go and finish someone else’s job for the same reasons you list. A year and a half will pass in the blink of any eye. Keep your head down, do your best and the the time will fly. Don’t forget you have vacation. Cam
It is frustrating to go behind someone that has torn the machine down and your stuck having to put it back together. We have all hade to do that. They should not allowed him to work on that job if he wasn't going to be able to get it done before he left for vacation. (Imo) As far as not feeling appreciated or them knowing your worth as a dependable and knowledgeable mechanic, there's a reason toolboxes have wheels and rollbacks beds tilt! LoL. With the complete shortage of general workers and specifically, dependable good mechanics with huge investments in tools all employers should realize that and let you know that you are appreciated and needed. Everyone like being told there appreciated. He'll I even tell the check out lady at all fast food restaurants....that I appreciate lunch. And I do! Equipment dealers and small shops are hurting for people. I say that not for you to tell them that but I would start looking for something better and probably will pay more, then you can maybe semi retire in8 months to a year. Just my 2 cents. Good luck on whatever you do, please keep us updated. I also know that having a family to provide for weighs heavy on these kind of decisions.
All jobs get that worn out feeling, especially doing nothing but major ones. Following behind someone is an aggravation, but is totally normal when working in for profit shops. Your issue is the loss of income when your daughter had covid and its eating away at you mentally. The problem at for profit shops doing the pandemic and even now is that in most cases, government was also looking over their shoulder and setting rules for when people had to quarantine. Most shops around here let you use sick leave for a certain amount of time. Others just said stay home without pay when someone in the household caught the bug. I know it sucks but I don't see any way around the issue. I've been let go when economies went south and been screwed out of pension accruals. I've quit other jobs when I felt slighted too many times or had to deal with jerk hole management. I generally just kept going until I saw a spot that was convenient for me to leave. When you find the right time, write a nice resignation letter and let your employers know that you terminated them as employers. That will feel good up until the time that it dawns on you that they didn't care in the first place.
To me as long as it's something that's part of your job, they aren't out of line asking for you to do it assuming you are paid hourly and they don't complain about how long it takes. I don't know if it's a customers equipment or their own companies, but assuming it's a customers they obviously want it back together and don't care who does it. I mean I wouldn't work overtime or lose time off to do it, but I don't see it as unreasonable at all. If you have concerns about the walking back and forth ask them for a solution like a cart to move tools or moving your toolbox. If you don't want to move it yourself tell them and get them to find a solution. Sure it might be frustrating putting in back together, but it's not like asking a mechanic to dig a hole out in the yard or something. As far as the covid thing, if it's a reasonable size company it was likely just a company thing and they didn't want any risk or liability. Sure they could or should have offered maybe a few days paid or something, but if they have been good to you other then that i'd say it's pretty minor. I see the other side most of the time as my brother has around 15 employees, and it's why I will never have any employees, it's basically babysitting grown ass adults who mostly act like children. You have to put up with so much BS because it's so hard to find employees who aren't useless and actually show up. To be candid, if I had an employee say they didn't want to do a job because someone else started it and no other reason, I would tell them where the door is, zero hesitation. Not trying to rag on you or anything for it, but it's not a good reason. If you have concerns about your ability to put it back together properly that's different, but not wanting to do it because it will be frustrating and take awhile isn't a good reason to not do it. I don't see it as going above and beyond or anything, I see it as just doing your job. Sure they could have asked a different mechanic, maybe they asked you because they felt you were the best qualified to do it right? Not saying I would be any better, it's why I will never work for anyone ever again because I don't do well with people telling me what to do.
I do a lot of jobs that I don't like. I have one in my bay now that I just hate working on. Like I said before if circumstances were different although I would grumble about it ( to myself) ,but otherwise I would do it without hesitation. I do realize that I am out of line and being a baby about it. And I can't truly convey why I just don't want to do it for them without writing a book. I would think that if anyone here would feel the same if they had to put up with some of the things I have. My main problem is that the can do attitude and sacrifice is expected and not appreciated. It should be a two way street. I scratch your back you scratch mine.Although this my job and it is what they pay me to do. They don't care about my problem so why should I care about theirs?I will more than likely do the job, but not without protest. I personally don't care if it will take 5 times as long for me to do it than the guy who originally tore it down. My attitude towards that is it takes as long as it takes. And if you don't like this speed you sure aren't going to like the next. As far as being shown the door because they don't like what I have to say and my protest against doing it. I really don't care. I was looking for a job when I found this one and I will have another one before my box is loaded.
Sounds like the very definition of "burnout" d.d.
BW 55.. I too was in your spot. A happy and enthusiastic employee that was appreciated. Then the management changed. I was pushed into a slot I didn't like. So I became the employee they treated me as. Clock in, clock out. Not a thought beyond. I waited for my opportune moment and left. Do the job they want. Your moment will come. (1 1/2 year) Enjoy it then. I did, and 14 years later I'm still grinning.
I'm with the " keep your head down and do the 1.5 years" and get vested. Your complaints are valid, you have enough reason to bail but you also have plenty of reason to stick this out. If it helps at all keep venting here.
Its not easy but and i would have a hard time doing it but do the job and when you are in a better mood figure out what to do. I worked in a shop for 4 years were one guy would take some thing apart and another would put it back together agin. After awhile it seemed normal.
Also, from the beginning of this thread, it sounds like the machine has been sitting around for a while, and even the guy who took it apart may have trouble remembering how it goes together. But their customer wants it now, so they want to keep them happy. Also, it's hard imagining a good wrench having a hard time finding work, but the economy is turning. Might be a good time to stay put and keep your head down for a little while.
After much consideration and prayer. I have decided that I will move my box, and get the job done. We spoke this morning and I made it perfectly clear that I am doing this under protest. And I made it clear about my feelings for the company in general. I made no promises on when it would be finished. My answer to that question is when I tell you it's finished then you will know. This has likely put a target on my back, but at this point I don't care. And yes D.D. I am burnt out. I lost my passion to bend wrenches a year ago.
I've been there. At about the 27 year mark it began to feel like I was not appreciated. Company being bought out didn't help. The new company was so hard to deal with that we unionised. Part of the sweetener to get us to join was the offer to vest us into the union pension plan for all our previous years of service. I had about 28 by then but we had guys with over 40. It was a bit of a no brainer. I stayed another 5 years and retired with 33 years of pensionable service. It's not a lot each month but I've been getting it for 21 years now so has added up. Hang in there if you only have 1 1/2 yrs to get through. Time flies. Good luck. d.d.
No such thing as a compliment in disguise from a a company that doesn't have your back. Unfortunately companies have gotten too used to loyal or desperate employees in bad economies and act like they're doing a favor giving you a paycheck, dealing with it right now. Boss keeps saying the field mechanics don't have this or that, I ask them if they want to pay me like the field mechanics and magically I don't hear from that manager for the rest of the day. \ I hear you and almost every mechanic I've talked to dealer or private is tired of the corporate BS. The rules only favor the company and there's no give, so now there's no take from me. Manager doesn't do his job? Written down when he tries to throw me under the bus with his boss and now the manager looks like a dumb***. Not much more a worker can do other than trying to find green pastures but I'm not sure there's much out there.
People who do not run successful businesses always know better than those who do.
Crane operator is and confirmed that it isn't that big of a leap so let's be constructive. If that's not how you meant it then I apologize I'm just salty about crap businesses.
If you are trying to get a rise out of me then take a walk. I have read your post about looking for the employee that can do it all, but you don't want to pay for it. You are the problem that is a stain on business today. People like you measure success with money and possessions. I measure my success with a well taken care of family, integrity, and doing what pleases my lord and savior Jesus Christ. It is working for arrogant slave drivers like you that has me burnt out from working for anyone.
I was not trying to get a rise out of you. I feel for you. You seem to be having a tough time. My 1st post, number 2 in this thread, was an honest piece of advice and didn't appear to be harmful or hurtful. I was making a general point. People, not you or just you, seem to always know how others should do things. I offer a wage for a job. People are free to accept it or not. My problem is with the government interfering with that. When money is taken from people who do work and given to those who don't, it acts as a huge disincentive to be productive for many people. I do not feel you fall into this category. As for you comment about me not wanting to pay for the employee who can do it all: I could pay for that. If I did pay for that, I would have to raise all my rents, substantially. If I did that, I would end up with a bunch of people telling me how I was doing it all wrong. You know, people who have never done what I am doing before. How does calling me a stain on business and an arrogant slave driver jibe with your whole lord and savior thing?
There's nothing in the Bible that is against telling people like it is.
paraphrase: Let him with no sin cast the first stone
If you are ever in the DFW area let me know. And we can eat a steak while I will take you to task on what the Bible says. I call businessmen like you a stain for one simple reason. You need someone who can do it all, but don't want to pay for it. You can afford to, but you fear losing money more than you fear displeasing God ( if you even believe). If you were to believe. Then you wouldn't have to raise the rent on your tenants for paying someone what his worth is. God expects us to do what is right and to not fear. He blessed you with the money you have. If you were to pay people their worth and do right by your tenants. By providing them with a quality handyman and not raise their rent. Then God would bless you with more. He would provide you with tenants who will take care of your rental property. But you fear losing money and thus you get the what you have. Sorry tenants and sorry repairs. Yes it is easy for me to say what I would do if I were a business owner when I'm not. But I don't make that statement flippantly. I say because I don't fear losing money so long as I do what is right in the eyes of my Lord. And while I'm here beating my Bible at you and others here too see. It is what that Bible says is the reason I decided to put my ego aside and do the job that was asked of me.
This thread took a turn. I'm not into religion at all so I will not go there. Rentals are a nightmare though, I found even the best renters don't take care of stuff good at all. I got rid of all 3 of my rentals and doubt I will ever be a landlord again. I do think there's good and bad employees as there are good and bad employers. The mindset of some people thinking that the employer is always getting rich and can pay more, etc is not true in many cases. There is SO many cases of companies getting big and closing up because bad employees didn't make them any money, obviously sometimes it's mismanagement or other things, but many times the employees have a lot to do with it. They don't take care of equipment so it breaks more and loses value much quicker and because the company grew in size they are more on their own and just don't work. Sure there is the flipside of the cheap employer who will pay as little as possible and skimp on everything to make more profit, I would generalize the bigger the company the more likely that's the case. Or there's people who don't understand the time it takes to run a company or how much overhead there is. They have no idea about things like insurance, what maintenance cost, financing equipment, etc. They can see a job "oh we did this job in one day for $5k, material is only $2k, wages $1k they made $2k" and don't understand it's not even close. There is so many more expenses to factor in. I find anytime I see another excavation company I know instantly if it's an hourly employee or a owner operator or small company owner. You can always tell by how fast they are working, and most of the time the way the machines getting run. I'm subbing more and more from another company because they can't find decent help. I charge them a TON but it's still cheaper then their own guys because they are slow, break ****, and do a bad job. These guys I bet make under $30/hr and rent their equipment. I won't touch a job for them that i'm not making at least $200/hr with my equipment, even if it's my mini hoe, most times I make a lot more then that. They should be able to make a fortune doing the jobs, but bad employees make it so they aren't.
There are those employers that drive a new pickup every year, have a big RV in the driveway, garage full of toys to fit in a custom trailer, wine and dine every other month in Vegas, divorced two or three times, bankrupted at least once and always try to screw their employees out of every paying minute. I’ve seen that type whine about a free service job on a new machine.
It took several years to learn this but the bosses job first is to make every cent out of having you there he can. Making friends with his employees is not his second job it may not even be on the list of things to do to help feed his family or to help feed yours. A good worker is someone that gos to work for a paycheck at the end of the week. Go to work keep your head down dont try to be a hero do your job always be on the look out to get screwed around thats why they pay you and always have enough money saved up if it gets to ruff so you can make it till you find a new place to get screwed around.
Pray that when you get close to being "fully vested" that your employer doesn't screw you out of your full pension and anything else you earned. Your attitude at work could trigger it. My son-in-law was recently screwed over with a huge reduction in both his pension and company provided health insurance. He was 2 months from retirement when it happened to him.
I have made peace with the current situation and with my feelings towards the company. You guys have told me exactly what I needed to hear. Even if I didn't like what I was hearing. I will do the best job I can and keep my head down and make them money. Thanks for letting me vent. This forum reminds me of that table of farmers and good ol boy's early in the morning talking shop at the local store. I come hear to listen and learn and to help when I can. I will update my progress with this project.
There are times when the employer may be suffering but they don't want to let on that they are. They may or may not take it out on the employee's. Just because someone is in business, even if it is a large business, doesn't mean they aren't struggling financially. When covid shut downs forced my sister to lay off most of her staff didn't mean she was saving a bunch of money. She told the landlord she couldn't pay one month's rent because she had to pay about $30,000 into unemployment for the laid off workers. She was a long term tenant and the landlord let her skip a month. Sometimes you have to consider how much money an employer has to make just to break even. There are many things that people who haven't owned a business don't think about. If you have a pension, the employer cares somewhat about you as they have to pay into that pension on top of paying your wage and benefits. Some employers are greedy too. When a Honda M/C dealer here sold out after 49 years I was shocked that long term employee's had no pension what-so-ever. The parts manager was the 2nd employee ever hired and was there since the 2nd year in business. The business was sold because it was really hurting but it sure wasn't hurting in the 80's. It was only in the last couple of years. A lot of the reason is the owners were still trying to run the business the same as it always had and not adapting with the times. You can't keep relying on the next generation of a family to keep buying from you. With competition you're not going to be able to get full sticker price, especially with the cost of bikes now. Their service dept. used to be known as the best in the city but it went so far downhill they were having to send mechanics home early on Friday afternoon because there was no work for them. It was pretty unbelievable how a former Honda sales award dealer went so far down the drain. They got decent money for the dealership and owned the building which recently sold so they came out way ahead but the long term employee's were treated like they were expendable. I lost a lot of respect for the owners when I heard the parts manager got absolutely nothing in terms of a pension or even a bonus when they sold out. He was by far the best Honda parts man in the province if not in the country. He was the go to guy for sourcing parts for old bikes that were obsolete and kept a lot of older parts knowing they could be valuable for collectors.
That sucks!!!
BW you will like this story. My job before this one I worked for a Ag company. They got a new GM that was a micro manager and full of himself. When I went to work there they had 7 DOT red tags the year before, their yearly expenditure on the trucks/trailers was $700,000, by the time I left I had managed to lower it to $340.000 which included money for new/used trucks in the budget. Anyway he and I didn't get along too well, imagine that. He set a policy that before any drivers were hired I had to road test them. This driver showed up at the shop and said he had already been hired but need a road test after the fact. The new manager hired him as a favor to a relative. I called the GM, he was setting in Safeco stadium watching a Mariners game. I asked you hired him {Yup he said} I said you set a policy you have no business hiring a driver before road test. He blew up, hung up. I was at the shop the next morning and he comes flying up jumps out {Your FIRED you will never work in this town AGAIN}. I asked it if I could use the forklift to set my tools in the back of my truck. Yes But Make It Quick. I forked them up drove out the gate down the street 2/3's of a block and set them down in Tate's shop, Gayle was grinning. I drove back parked the lift [he was steaming mad]. Have my check mailed to me with vacation pay that's included. You see I was asked to go to work by Tate two years ago you can't stop a guy like me, have a nice f@cking day pi$$ants like you are dime a dozen. In two years he drove the company broke it sold to CHS. I was told by no less than three different people that don't even know each other he was last seen wearing a orange apron working the aisles at Home Depot. F@ucking Big Shot he was.
Truck Shop; A perfect example of what goes around comes around. I have lived by that belief all my adult life.
I’m jealous. You get to follow 1 guy on this one job. I get to follow HNC & TNH and fix their screw ups that they have done for the last 2 years. Want to trade?
But you like it.
LOL.....yer sweet talk ain't working on me
The only thing sweet about me is my feet!
Oh I don’t know. I think it’s kind of sweet the way you two flirt!
Yeah well that hat he has on in his avatar, that's a little over the top.
Hat ????
Yeah that great big white Dallas thing.
Looks like the roof of a railway car....
Got to have imagination.
All of the crying and whining I did amounted to more stress and energy than I put in last Friday. When I started this job. I was pulled off today and the guy who started will complete it. My box is now back in my bay where it belongs. Not sure why they changed their minds, but it could have something to do with some safety concerns that I raised. I didn't raise these concerns out of spite. I brought them to light because I am very addiment about doing work safely. I am a firm believer getting what is needed to do a job safely and not doing sketchy **** because we don't have what it takes to be safe. I don't fault the guy who started this project for the sketchy **** that I found. It was the best that could be done with what we had. My point about bringing this to the attention of the powers that be. Was that if we keep doing sketchy work and not bring it to attention. Then no one will know that sketchy work is being done until a accident happens. Friday I had to mount a 2500 lb transmission on to a 4500 lb precariously supported engine. After getting the transmission mounted I noticed that if I let the hoist loose I was about to lose the whole thing. I carefully removed the transmission and then got my boss and showed him the problem. His comment to me was the company will not spend a bunch of money for a job that we do not perform very often. I told him that it is cheaper than the lawsuit if things go wrong. So I didn't get the feeling that anything was going to come of it. So I took pictures and wrote a email voicing my concerns. And I sent it to my boss, his boss, and his bosses boss. So now they are on noticed. I did however managed to get the transmission mounted and the engine better secured. It took the shop crane and a service truck crane to do it. Thanks all of you for your advice (even you ianjoub). This nightmare is now the original dreamers problem.
Total sketch.
Safety should not have to be a concern on a modern American worksite. No repair is worth losing a life or limb over.
Safety is a cultural thing. We all have done things that shouldn't have been done for the sake of getting the job finished. I work for a dealership and we should have everything we need to do the work safely. As I am phasing out of the industry I don't want the ones coming behind me learning bad habits. Safety will not happen if you don't make it happen. The manufacturers are ever building things that make you buy more specialized equipment to do the job. There are stands that are built by the manufacturer that fit this engine. We are not allowed to fabricate our own equipment because of safety concerns and they don't like to pay us to fabricate. So we either have to buy the manufacturer made stands or sub out for someone else to fabricate the stands. Both cost money and take a lot of time. So we get forced doing sketchy ****. Because they don't want to pay us to fabricate, don't want spend money for the right equipment, or lose time and money paying someone else to build it. As long as I am still bending wrenches I will not stand for it. I will use their rules and government rules and force them to do what is right.
Reminds me of our dyno at the Terex dealer back in the 80's. It was cut-off railroad ties to set the engine on and a 30 gallon former grease bucket was the radiator. Fuel was supplied through a old oil container. Good times man!
As I recall the dyno at the Komatsu dealer I worked at used jack stands and a cable type come-a-long on engines that had up to 1,000 horsepower.
This cracks me up, Some scrap angle iron drilled for multiple mounts. Takes maybe a half hour to construct, and that's including a smoke brake a cafe mocha and a crap.
Of course, this was all back in the day when safety was an afterthought.
Safety-what about safety?
I'm sure that is safe. So long as everything goes perfect.
A time when men got things done! Even if they overloaded their tools a bit! Lol
We used old tires under the engines and wooden blocks for support. It worked!
I have a hard enough time keeping a starter motor still for testing, hate to see a 14 liter engine start dancing around.
Something like this is simple/cheap and works well.
We used to make stuff like that but someone would question the safety. Management found it easier to buy something either of the shelf or custom designed and made by an outside shop. The guys could not complain. All the fun, creative work was gone over several yrs. Cam
As though they are engineers and know better than the persons using it. Worried about liability day and night. Which is really strange for the fact they would trust someone to repair equipment but a engine stand would be classified as out of bounds. Micro managing at it's best.
I must have been way out if line to build this.
The boss of bosses came by yesterday to thank me for pointing out the danger and said that they are looking into getting the proper stands. I asked him to pay for mine or another guy's welding certification. So that we could fabricate stuff like this. He said that he would look into it.
Careful there. Certified welding is just part of the equation. Certified design is the other.
There's a point of liability and a point of reason. I put my job on the line by certifying some product lifting hooks made at the plant. They were tested at multiple weight of the design load. We tagged each hook as required. OSHA doesn't say who certifies, just that it be certified by someone.
...and what will you say standing in front of a judge when there is an accident ? It might be OSHA on the other side, or it might be the injured party or their next of kin.
Just look at the stuff that loggers, dirt contractors, farmers, and specialty trucking outfits make "shop built", somehow they get away with it.
If it doesn't break, nobody will be standing in front of a judge.
Small company, limited assets. They keep them small for that reason.
Been down the road of "Time to do some Sketchy ****, Do Da Do Da" and NOT been caught LUCKILY, have had enough injuries over the years as SMALL warnings was TOO CLOSE to Death Experiences so backed the Sketchy crap WAY Back. As to the OP, Have had those weeks where the employer stepped across a mark I had made in my OWN sand lot, made some really BAD choices doing so yet most were for the better. Worked at Dealers, Private Fleets, Quarries and independent garages even on my own, all were MY choices, worked for really BAD employers when times were tough easier to leave that when openings arose that made life better. Union Electric Utility(Became AMEREN) was a BIG Risk position, Full Time NO Benefits TEMPORARY Mechanic position that worked out due to Mid Manager taking a liking to my SKILLS Level and My Work ETHICS Level, that also netted my entry into a Power Station Operator position as had History they could look at where did NOT disappoint for 21 years. Have to roll with punches and keep up capabilities or will end up as HNC and TNH in ANY job.
I already checked on certifying a project I was doing some years ago. The cost for testing was 50 times what the item was worth. So when in doubt overbuild by 50%.
The same just like that "certified" rig purchased from xxx My engineering design (plus 50% like TS) opinion backed by the proof testing as documented. That's why my job was on the line. Was at a big company, deep pockets, crappy lawyers ... A bit Off Topic ... I noticed our company lawyers were always risk adverse. But any other lawyer was a fightin' devil.
You guys should see how stupid {N} stamping anything cost!!! 3" Stainless Steel Globe Valve Assembly, Weld In Schedule 80, for regular plant as Coal Burner was $380 in 2010 dollars, at the Nuke for that {N} Stamp and reams of paper stating was Good For Nuclear was close to $3000. Same for Piping and anything associated to the Nuclear side. 120v Indicator lamp bulbs for switches, $50 EACH!!
If you design something you can sometimes get an engineer to approve it. Just don't try to get it done after the fact like one of my old bosses did. I don't know how you get a welding certification unless you are a registered apprentice or a journeyman welder (at least here in Alberta). Mechanics and others weld stuff all the time but usually not when they want to have it approved/certified for OSHA standards. It might require a qualified welder to weld something like a large engine stand or lifting device. Maybe a 3rd party welding inspector could check and approve the welding if done by someone who isn't technically a welder?
There are times when someone has done something really stupid and abused or overloaded a device and been injured. Then they try and sue for their own stupidity. Sometimes they win! Heard a story about a kid who got his long hair caught in a lathe at school after being told to wear a cap or keep it contained, etc. numerous times. He/his parents tried to sue the school claiming the school and the teacher were negligent. What came out in court was that this same kid had a similar type accident (not sure if involved his hair) in shop class a couple years earlier in Jr. High School and tried to sue that school. After that came out his case was basically dismissed as they showed that he was intentionally disobeying safety protocols that the teacher had instructed and enforced. The teacher cannot keep an eye on 1 student every single second and ignore the rest of the students. It's hard to believe that a kid and/or his parents would try to get injured in order to sue a school but that's how it appeared in court. I knew a guy who accidently sanded his finger on a belt sander not paying attention but getting your hair caught in a lathe by not keeping it contained makes me quiver! If the parents were behind this, they should be in jail. Knew another guy who got burned in grade 5 or 6. I'm not sure if he sued or was given a settlement. The teacher obviously wasn't the sharpest pencil in the drawer. He warned all the students to stay back but this kid went closer to see what was going to happen. The teacher wanted to show what happens when an oil tanker spills and there is a fire. He made a live demonstration using a plastic kiddy pool and lit the lighter fluid or what ever he used on fire. Somehow the kids shirt caught on fire and the teacher got him down on the ground and was smothering him with a fire blanket. He received burns on his neck and around his shoulder area. The teacher had burns on his hands. I wasn't in this class but my big questions are what was the teacher thinking and how the he77 did the school approve him lighting a fire in a kiddy pool indoors? Thinking about it now that teacher should have been fined and given the boot for reckless endangerment. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a settlement paid. The student was partly to blame for his injuries but who lights a fire in a kiddy pool in an open classroom with a carpeted floor no less?
The fact this topic has strayed, I will add to it. About 16 years ago I investigated and designed a removeable kingpin. The 2" trailer kingpin had the same spec's by SAE going back to the 30's. Basically 4140 IIRC. I don't remember all the info I received from the three testing labs that I contacted but it had to be tested with X amount of cycles at very high psi load and loaded for straight pull IIRC. All three testing labs had a very close cost for testing in the area of $60,000. IIRC. I declined. The funny part is SAE changed the specs one year later. Now for my jeep story. Below is photos of a CJ3B I built back in the mid 80's after my other got wrecked. I bought a new steel body, 44 front, 8 3/4 Chrysler rear, rear springs out boarded, big shaft top loader 4 spd, overdrive, rack and pinion steering, dual master with overhead pedals, 271 hp 289, 16 gal tank. And I built the frame. I went to license it and have it inspected-inspector wouldn't inspect it because I built the frame and would only inspect if it was certified. After many months of hoop jumping, and me bugging DOL the state finally relented and a different inspector passed it no problem. About 3 months later I received a letter from DOL telling me to cease and desist with all vehicle manufacture.
I never listened to DOL very well.
Good thing too!!
I like when the thread takes a life of its own. You guys helped me with keeping my head on straight and that bit of drama is over. Here's the update on the project. Project is moving along nicely and is about 80% complete. There is just one glitch in the management's plan to get it out before the end of the month. The drive shaft from the transmission to the transfer box was ordered 90 days ago. It is still back ordered to Switzerland with no E.T.A. No one in our parts department has followed up on this back order and lean on the manufacturer to get it here. So it doesn't look like it will make it out at the end of the month as they hoped. I know where we could have one made locally, but I doubt that they will go for it since it's not from the manufacturer.
A friend of mine built his own heavy duty suspension for a purpose built 4x4. It was immensely stronger than the stock 3/4 ton suspension. He fell asleep driving and hit the ditch. No injuries and bad on him. Somehow a certain cop convinced the DMV that the truck wasn't road worthy because it didn't have the original suspension. The suspension had nothing to do with hitting the ditch. The truck wasn't badly damaged other than some body damage but because of the cop was deemed salvage. My friend repaired the truck and had the suspension and alignment all checked out by a commercial outfit. Everything was to spec. but because he modified the suspension he couldn't register the truck. He changed some of the cab and got a new serial number but somehow, this cop who had it out for him, recognized the truck and told the DMV not to let it be registered. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the truck. It was stronger and more heavy duty than the stock truck. He ended up selling it to a guy that wanted a heavy duty off road 4x4. I think he did get it registered for a short time when he moved to a different city but was worried he could have his registration expire at any time. He drove it to work one day. It was a nice truck but needed a step ladder to get in. Even funnier was it had a baby seat in it. He was a short guy and I wondered how he got his kid in it.
The cop should have been asked for his engineering and welding certificates. That's how I beat the WSP inspector and DOL.
You see when it comes to situations like mine above I worked it this way. I asked DMV-does any of the WSP vehicle inspectors have training or degrees in welding or design. The final answer was no. Then I asked-How is it a WSP inspector will pass a home built trailer and not my vehicle the only difference is it has a power unit and the trailer doesn't. It meets all federal vehicle safety standards. The final answer-You have a point.
He couldn't understand why the cop was so out to get him. The cop used to drive by his residence making sure the truck never moved! I saw the truck and knew the builder, he did it right and didn't cut corners just to make things work.
Unfortunately there is a few like that. Recently my dad was driving one of my brothers work trucks and got pulled over and ticketed, cop said truck wasn't allowed to be modified and given $1100 in tickets for being deleted even though it's legal here. Cop still refused to accept written proof from CVIP shop saying deleted truck is ok and threatened to try and pull registration on the truck, even though they don't have that power, and said he would be checking up at address to make sure truck is parked. Said would get a new CVIP on truck (it's under 11700kg so not required) but he said it's not good enough. So forced to fight tickets because a cop doesn't know the law. Truck still driving everyday and haven't had an issue since. I have no patience for that crap, once it's clear a cop is going to be like that and doesn't know the law I have no problem telling them where to go and how to get there, as long as you are confident the vehicle you are in is legal there really isn't much they can do. Even if they try to hassle you every time they see the vehicle there is plenty ways around that, and the cop will be in a ton of trouble if they write the exact same vehicle tickets over and over and they are all BS and thrown out. Having said that, maybe it's partly luck but it seems like only certain people get pulled over, regardless of the vehicle. Doesn't matter if it's his truck or in other peoples my dad gets pulled over ALL the time at least 3-4 times a year and ticketed for multiple things usually like unsecure load, lights out, etc, as do some others. I can't even remember the last time I was pulled over. Never been pulled over for violations like that though, it's only been like speeding or whatnot.
the “oh this machine has sat for three months waiting on decisions and parts but now that we finally have the go ahead I want you to kill yourself to get it back together by some arbitrary date after which it will sit on the pickup line for two to three weeks” crap REALLY pisses me off.
That sounds awfully similar to the excavation/demolition job that gets delayed 3-4 times because it's not ready then it's I need this done yesterday with no notice. I did one of those this week actually.
The problem is fighting it takes a lot of time and $$$$. Even if you win, the cop can still hassle you and pull you over for what ever reason he can make up. Worked with a woman who was pulled over by a Peace Officer. Can't remember what for but the wanna be cop kept harassing her. She was pretty good looking and getting tired of it. The cop would phone her at home and 1 time came to the business to talk to her. He wanted her to come outside and talk to him privately. She wasn't comfortable with that and asked one of the salesman to go out and ask the wanna be cop to come inside and he would be a silent fly on the wall. She was just sick of it and, in looking what to do, happened to come in contact with a lawyer who was familiar with this Peace Officer. The lawyer said he's very familiar with this PO and would love to take him down. Apparently the PO was let go from RCMP and was a little bitter over it. Also he had several similar harassment complaints from (good looking) woman. There seemed to be a pattern with this PO. The lawyer told her not to worry and he wouldn't charge her to take this idiot down! I'd say most cops here are generally pretty good but there's still some with a big ego trip that like to abuse their authority.
Where's the heavy equipment? It would be a much cooler shot if there was a dozer, or backhoe or excavator or a truck in the shot. I think Ansel Adams made that suggestion to his students years ago.
It's a peacefull spot for a good long 3 week vacation, I suggested it so the OP could get away from all the work worries.
Here is where I took that pix, see the little boat dock ? Nice and quiet, they even shut the engine off for awhile so you could relax & take it all in: Keep zooming out until you recognize where you are at... https://goo.gl/maps/qMHB3ztJ7zrcx2Zj7
Puerto Montt is on my must visit list!
Yeah- they donntaa speakkaa mi a lahngage downta there. I ain't going.
True, many people speak german down there. I got along O.k. they were great people.
Less and less as time goes by, sadly.
Show me a law anywhere that says everything has to be engineered and certified or it’s not legal to use.
There isn't. The builder of what ever is going to assume the liability in any case if it reaches a court and caused a issue involving life or limb.
True .. That's the reason I abandoned, a mechanism I had patented. The market was too small vs the design liability.
^^^
Sadly there should at least have to be inspections on homemade stuff that could cause serious injury if it failed. One of the most popular (and scary) 1st. projects for people wanting to learn to weld is trailers. They figure they can just buy a welder and build a trailer without actually knowing the 1st. thing about welding. If you have to ask questions about every aspect of the project maybe you're not skilled enough yet to be building it.
Quoting Eastwood {A man has got to know his limitations}.
My lifting equipment has quite a list of rules from osha.
Lifting fixtures at the nuke underwent serious tests to prove viability as most were custom constructed onsite. ALL had a Engineering Signoff on prints used to produce them.
By your logic nothing would have ever gotten built unless some third party was there to inspect it. So who certifies that third party as inspectors on something that has never been done before?
The 4th post up..WelderDave hit it.. THATS exactly how I feel about people trying to build their inj. pump.!!! How about THIS.?? What about THAT.?? Where can I buy parts.?? What’s the spec on THAT.?? If u don’t have or can’t find the information you need.. DONT TRY IT..
That's all taken care of by the one and only {Inspector General of Things that haven't been Built before-- until Now.
Lots of things would have been built but if there were never any established standards put on things, it would be pretty scary. A lot of things are designed and built and go through extensive testing to make sure they are safe. Lots of things have required beefing up or a redesign because in actual use there were failures. That's why vehicles have recalls. I mentioned trailers because there are some really poorly built ones on the road that shouldn't be. A visual inspection by a vehicle inspection station would reveal poor welds and too light of construction. Wouldn't be hard to find someone to do that. New Miller and Lincoln trailers for welders that go on the highway have to be inspected by a 3rd party when brought into Canada before they can be registered. A large semi trailer manufacturer up here was forced into receivership because several of their largest trailers were failing. It was a result of poor engineering. Even engineered stuff can fail. Imagine if there were no inspections or certifications for lifting apparatus or cranes didn't have load charts. If something is built just for use at home or in a shop is one thing but inspections should be required on some home and shop built items that could pose a serious threat to others should they fail, like trailers. UL, CE and CSA test and certify all kinds of things. There are other agencies that certify things like ROPS structures for equipment. It costs a lot of money but it sure gives piece of mind in the event of a rollover.
It is that exact line of thinking that gets more government involved into our lives. Thus costing us more in taxes and personal freedom. Don't get me wrong I am for things being safe. And I am certain that there are enough rules and regulations already on the books that make it that way. But you are sadly mistaken if you think that we can legislate our way into a utopian society. Are there people out there building things that shouldn't? Of course there are. Does it effect me and my loved ones? I hope not and if I can notice the danger. Then I will use the many laws and regulations we have already to do something about it. We need to stop trying to make the world safer. It is about as safe as it will get. More people killing themselves from their own stupidity is what we need. It's called natural selection. It is our duty and not the duty of government to hold those accountable and to stop them from hurting others! And not themselves!
Go on the Welding Web and look at the trailer fail pics. I'm not saying everything needs to be inspected but a faulty or poorly built trailer is as bad as a semi that doesn't pass inspection. Hoping it doesn't affect you or your loved ones? Is that what the guy was thinking when a wheel came flying off a truck into his windshield and it killed him? Could an inspection have stopped that from happening... absolutely! Something like a trailer is no different.
More than 10 dead, over 250 injured in Jordan’s Aqaba gas leak | Al Arabiya English -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are the 10 or so killed and 250 more injured stoopid ? Not as much oversite and regulations going on there....
Just in one category-if there was just half the DOT enforcement officers imagine what our highways would be like. People have hard time policing themselves without the enforcement officers trucking would be like it was in the early 50's and before that. The child riding in a car seat has no control over what others do.
OMG Some of the escapees of scrap yards would be Cadillacs of that!!!!
Didn't see anything in that article that said there wasn't. And besides that... could you tell me what new law or government agency that would've prevented that. Accidents happen. Sometimes it happen because people cut corners. Sometimes it happens because just happenstance. And sometimes because no one has the balls to speak up and stop whatever it is that isn't safe. The people who just stand back and don't speak up when something is dangerous or someone is being a idiot. Because they are afraid to lose their job or their afraid of confrontation are the problem. No new law or government agencies can account for stupidity and cowerdness. Nor plain old not giving a ****. When I go to work I make sure that I and the guy next to me gets to go home to their family. I don't look the other way and think that. Gee there ought to be a law for this or someone should do something about this. I say something and I do something about it.
MORE than once I shut the crane Down during critical lifts as the Operator at work, told the boss it was not going to resume until the problem people were REMOVED from my area. Made CERTAIN numerous people heard my comment and the problem children were removed. Have to be vocal in arguing Safe Conditions.
Day to day safety on job sites isn’t driven by the .gov or OSHA even though they are enforcement mechanisms with the power to levy large fines. it’s driven by insurance companies. Our insurance carrier says “do this or we will drop your coverage in 30 days” and we do it. Plain and simple. One time another mechanic and I could not get on a major sawmill operator’s site to install the grapple on a wheel loader and PDI it. We had to wait three hours for a wavier and then go through an hour of site specific training because their insurance demanded it and our training program setup for our company didn’t report to their insurance clearing house that we had a formal safety program in operation. Within the week we had revamped our safety training to comply with that issue to ease getting on very safety focused sites. we had people getting cut through their own idiocy so now our insurance demands we wear cut resistant gloves at all times in the shop. Same goes for hard metal hammers we can’t have them have to use dead blow or brass or safety steel hammers and have to exhaust all other options (such as torching out pin or pressing out) before using the safety steel hammers. OSHA for us only shows up when someone is seriously hurt or killed and our insurance jumps our **** on everything else.
The day that I can't use my hammer and put on gloves when I need to. Is the same day I will throw up the deuces and walk out the door.
Blah Blah Blah Blah. You can't argue against a real safety regulation or issue. Problem is that people use it to show power over someone else whether it be another person or a company. Many times a "safety issue" is invented for the power reason. Case in point. A mine I worked in operated two shifts with one at night. The loader operator whined that he didn't have enough light and wanted a light plant put on the loading site. Problem with that is the light plants were properly put on the dump site. He filed a complaint with MSHA who came and wrote out a fine. The mine manager appealed the fine and an administrative law judge was brought in from Colorado for the hearing. The mine manager did his home work and showed that the lighting on the machines operating at the loading site were certified by the manufacturers to be enough light. The judge threw out the case completely and the operator was taken off the loader and put on a bull gang because he wouldn't run the loader at night. Another case in point. When I was a dealer wrench I had to go into a different mine to work. Their regulations said that nothing could be sitting loose inside the truck cab. I took a lunch box and bolted it to the floor behind the stick shift for the transmission. I apparently said something wrong to someone in the shop who went to someone in the office and said I had a lunch box in the truck. Some white hat came down and tried to give me the lecture on accidents and safety. When I asked him his problem, he said there was a loose box in the cab of my truck. I marched him out to the truck and told him to hand me the offending piece. He about tore off the handle of the box. I told him he was interfering with my job and I intended to turn him in to the manager I was reporting to. To bring this back to the theme we have seemed to verged onto in this thread, people do stupid things at times either through ignorance or intent. There are those people who do know what they are doing and don't need someone to lord over them making sure they do their jobs right. In short I don't need a little Hitler standing over my shoulder telling me everything I can and can't do. This isn't Nazi Germany, Russia or China yet.
John C.--It's called throwing the safety card. Now some irony. Airport here is wasting some FAA and other Fed money to rebuild some tarmac in front of privet hangers. Big construction contract and a certain cow milking contest for three construction outfits. Any vehicles operating on the tarmac or hauling out to a spoils pile are required to have a 4'x4' orange and white flag above cab with two strobes. Everyone is running around in bright yellow or orange outfits glowing in the sun. There are also end and side dumps hauling crush in, some from same construction companies. Drivers all dressed in yellow driving along And blatantly running stop signs within the airport district. It got so bad I had to go to the airport physical plant and make a complaint. Speed on airport streets is 25mph, average dump truck speed 35 to 40 mph. I was standing in the office which is located at a intersection using a copy machine when a dump ran the stop at 35 plus, timing was almost perfect he damn near tagged a car crossing. All the while dressed in his bright yellow uniform and hard hat. I made a second call--Paul my WSP DOT man made a visit, caught one over speed with mechanical violations. And I'll be damned the BS stopped.
You're contradicting what you posted earlier and even posted a pic. of what you termed "sketchy". If you really cared about your coworker being safe and going home every day, you would have spoke up about the sketchy engine stand instead of making excuses it was what he had to work with. Any employee has the right to refuse work that they deem too dangerous. Employers are supposed to provide adequate PPE safety gear as well as the proper tools and equipment to safely perform potentially dangerous tasks. Need to go watch Shake Hands with Danger again. A lot of accidents were easily prevented had someone spoke up. Many people have suffered serious injuries and even died as a result of their own negligence or no one speaking up concerning doing things safely. Worked in a shop where a young laborer was about to grab a spinning piece in a drill press. Luckily there were a couple people close by that yelled at him before he grabbed the piece.
As with anyone who is hell bent on being right in support of their ideology. You cherry picked what I said to support your argument. As soon as I seen the problem. I spoke up without hesitation. I didn't make any excuses for his ability to support the engine. Had I noticed it when he did it I would've spoke up then. I don't spend my day looking for sketchy ****. That's not my job! But if I see something I say something. In fact his inability speak against his own sketchy work. Supports my argument that people like that are the problem. He could've spoken up just as easily as I did. What else would you have me to do? Quit my job and lobby the government to make a law and a agency to enforce it. Oh wait... There's already laws and a agency that takes care of this very type of thing. But hey why not? They aren't taking enough taxes out of my check to handle things that I can do on my own.
Saying you would have spoken up after the fact doesn't count. I didn't cherry pick your comments, you said what you said. The point I have been trying to make all along is that there are trailers on the road that are as sketchy and even worse than that engine stand. Even a basic inspection would reveal if a trailer shouldn't be on the road. Nobody should complain if trailers required inspections the same as vehicles over 10 years old require.
For the most part there is following the book safety rules or common sense, the two don't work well together. A framer I know, guy only has vision in 1 eye only and has no business running one anymore flopped a zoom boom on it's side carrying a lift of lumber on a truss jib fully extended climbing a curb. Common sense would say he's a fawking idiot. OH&S? Nope all good. Because they had all their safety paperwork and after the accident did everything right, they were actually impressed with how they handled it. The fact that you can get away with doing something incredibly dangerous and stupid just because you have all your safety gear and paperwork in line is insane. I don't follow the BS rules the bulk of the time, to me it's what I think is safe, I really don't care what a book says. Unless it's on a site where they want something done a certain way and you can bet I charge them up the *** extra if they operate like that and frankly I don't have much patience for it. I had a site try to tell me I had to wear a hard hat in my machines, in an enclosed cab. I refused obviously and they gave in. Auction site here awhile ago guy was trying to load a packer with massive forklift, I offered him a chain to lift it he said "nope not allowed". After he flopped it on it's side and damaged it he gave in and used my chain, they basically gave me the $800 packer for free because of the damage. That is one thing I never follow, I don't care if it's a chain for tying stuff down, if you use common sense about how much you are lifting they are fine. I have yet to ever break a chain lifting something.
I see the difference in our argument now. Where I live we already have trailer inspections. You can't put anything on the road in this state without a inspection. Does it stop anyone from doing so. Hell no it doesn't. I would be willing to bet that for every legit vehicle on the road. There are at least two more that doesn't belong on the road. Probably more now with the price of fuel. And you can't possibly enforce it all. It takes personal accountability and people with courage to stop it. Government is only good after something happens and more often than not. Government makes it worse or gives the big players a out. So to avoid having to shut down and spend money in order to comply. My argument is this. If you see something say something. And to remember this. The bigger the government the smaller the citizen.
Common sense isn't common. Some people have absolutely no regard to doing things safely and don't even think about others if something they do or build goes wrong. There was guy that used to race dirt track cars. His welding was horrible so he put silicone over his roll bar welds and made it look like weld. It obviously wasn't inspected very well. That's putting himself in danger without even considering anyone else. Unfortunately a lot of people need to be constantly reminded to do things safely. I worked in a shop on night shift and every week a different welder would be the safety guy for the week. One old guy refused to wear his safety glasses and you were kind of stuck what to do. You couldn't fire him, you couldn't put him time out, about all you could was tell the boss in the morning. Wearing safety glasses in a welding shop is not some ridiculous BS to keep OH&S happy. A good number of people have lost their vision because of getting metal/crap in their eye(s). That's an instance where people have no common sense. Not wearing cutting goggles is another one. People have gone blind from O/A welding and cutting.
Like a machinist I knew called-Three Finger Bob
I worked for a guy who raced modified and super modified circle track. All the cars had to pass inspection before they were let on the track. Your story doesn't apply to this thread. If you worked in a shop with a procedure that required safety equipment and someone defied the regulation then that is on you for not turning him in and the management for not doing anything about it. Again that is a violation of an established rule and not germane to the discussion. If I build an overhead boom to use in my own shop or I build rigging to use on my truck for my own projects, that's my risk. I don't need another government regulation or some official to give me their interpretation of what is safe and what isn't.
That John is exactly my sentiment of this debate. Government has the authority to make sure that what I am doing is safe for others. It has no authority to make sure that I am safe from myself. So long as what I am doing doesn't affect others. Then it's no one's business what I'm doing or how I am doing it.
I agree with you. Why is there a seat belt law? Why is it illegal to do certain drugs? etc...
Yep exactly. Like for example if you had a shop and it's only you in it. OH&S government etc has ZERO control over what you do in regards to safety.
The problem is some people need to be saved from themselves. The car with bad welds was supposed to have been inspected but obviously the inspector wasn't qualified. As far as the safety glasses, I did everything I possibly could being on night shift. I don't think the boss would appreciate being called at 2 in the morning. If you build your own lifting device and use it strictly for yourself, go ahead. If you use it on your service truck on a job site and it fails and you're hurt, it certainly affects others. Job sites have been shut down even when approved and certified equipment has failed. It the case of a trailer, if it goes on the road it affects everybody else on the road. Anybody that is qualified to build a trailer would have no problem with it having to pass inspection. The same as any good mechanic would stand behind their heavy truck inspection.
The real life problem is that, 99 times out of 100, the government inspector has no idea what he's doing, he's just MISinterpreting what it says in his book. I could give 20 examples from my own experience, but one of the best came when I stood in coastal South Carolina arguing with a building inspector about the frost line.
That is not true. If it goes on the road it may affect some people on the road, but is unlikely to affect anyone on the road in reality.
You've never seen stories of trailers coming unhitched or breaking causing a major accident or even being severely over loaded? They affect anyone near them. Somehow my saying things like trailers should require inspections means anything and everything should be inspected. I was talking about trailers not anything and everything.
Life is a series of risks. I put myself and my family's well-being at risk just by driving to work. Then I do it again while working. I only worry about the things that I can control. I can't control the jackass on the highway playing with his phone right before he hits me. I can control how I react to someone that nearly kills me on the highway. Everything involves some sort of risks. I can control how much risk that I want to take. But when I let someone else take charge of my exposure to risk. Then I lose what little control of my personal life I have. I don't wear a seat belt because it's not the states job to make sure that I am safe. I don't wear a helmet when riding. Because again it's not the states job to make sure that I am safe. At home I am probably the worst when it comes to personal safety. I weld things in flip flops. Remove engines without wearing shoes. I don't wear safety glasses when I weedeat. I don't do these things to thumb my nose at safety. I just simply do it because I can. We are grown adults and we should except the ramifications of our decisions good or bad. I went mountain biking once and broke a couple of ribs. I had to miss work because of that. I didn't whine because I thought someone should've been there to make sure I was being safe. I didn't lobby the government to make sure that others don't suffer the same fate that I did. I took my lumps like a man and I made it through.
I'm sure you'd have a different viewpoint if you lost an eye. You need to set a good example especially if you have kids. There are risks and calculated risks. Some things you have no control over. Other things it's easy to see the risks and prevent them.
And that is something that I and only I should worry about. And it is also only my concern about how and what I teach my children. I don't need for you or anyone else to worry about my safety.
In most cases if I see someone {a man} doing something that could hurt them. I tell them-------- Don't expect me to do cpr--giving you cpr would be like reviving a dogs *** , a woman well that's different .
I could give most women CPR not all!!
True-some are packing a lot of taters.
Some just beat with a Ugly Stick!!
As my daddy said one time......"Sometimes they fall out of the ugly tree and hit every single branch on the way down"
If you want to risk your own safety as the regular course of action, you should have to pay for any and all medical expenses because of your choice not to take safety precautions. People taking unnecessary risks and getting injured are a big reason ER's are over crowded. It really sucks for the people that need immediate attention due to no fault of their own.
AND I DO! You have made your opinion known and so have I. I suggest that you move on and quit trying to troll me into any further debate. Good day!
You're the one who jumped on someone else's band wagon. That was your choice. I didn't troll you or force you to respond. I merely stated I think trailers should require inspections and you went off the deep end. Awhile later you said trailers in your area do require inspections. Why not say that in the 1st place. Could have avoided a lot of this.
No hard feelings over here. I do enjoy a good debate. And I'm sure this was fun for anyone who was following.
Friendly debates are fine. When someone posts something trying to stir the pot is another thing. All is good here.