I'm curious to know if anyone has experience with the new 2015/2016 ASV skid loaders or track loaders and which diesel you have. Perkins, Deutz or Cummins.....seems like they use a few. Do the machines compare to top end machines? Also if you have a 2015/2015 Terex.....or a Takeuchi wheeled skid loader......which are made for Terex & Takeuchi by ASV. www.asvllc.com I'm considering a machine or 2 to rent out.
I have alot of experience servicing both the terex and asv track loaders and is a awesome machine but is application specific, if your running on asphalt,concrete or hard rock surface you will go through tracks fast, as far as engine all i have seen in them is the perkins branded diesel which is actually a fpt same engine used in case's. They tend to be a higher maintenance in regards to idlers and boogie wheels then a ctl but will go places and have a ride that a ridge frame ctl cant touch. Alot of the tree companies love them and those guys are extremely hard on equipment and found the only thing to hold up is the terex units with the mulchers heads on them.
bartelbe Thanks for the response. Sure appreciate the input. Planning to send an experienced operator to Minn. to check them out at the ASV Proving Grounds..........when the weather clears
Bobcat, Deere, Caterpillar, Case and New Holland have about 90% of the skid steer market. ASV may make a great machine for an owner/operator that wants that specific undercarriage. In the rental business we want a durable and simple machine that anybody and their brother can jump in and run and abuse. Bobcat makes a tough machine, just redesigned the tracked undercarriage making clean up easier. Deere has some new machines out 312,314,316,318 and a new 317 track loader. Caterpillar has really picked up a big market share in just over 15 years. Cat makes some good machines. Very aggressive leases, at least here in Ohio. No experience with Case/New Holland, but have not heard much good lately. Choose loaders with a dealer near you that wants your business and can get parts quickly. I have had great luck with Bobcat. Jmho
Thanks RentalStop, Good input, good point on choosing a dealer 1st.
Well, what are you doing with the machine? That helps define wether or not it would be the best option for you...
This could be an interesting thread...Back in 2012 when I was shopping for a SSL/CTL for snow plowing & working on my soft, wet ground, I first got interested in ASV, then Terex. I quickly discounted them because of the lack of a good dealer near me & the "primitive" cab. So, I'm now very intrigued by the fact that ASV, LLC seems to have new life/focus now that it's been liberated from Terex (but who I think still has a non-controlling interest). Who would want a white machine anyway?? So, I studied the ASV, LLC website for a bit & offer these observations: The website is "fresh", but is still feeble regarding specifications. The most serious omission IMO is the lack of ground clearance numbers, since ASV has always had the largest ground clearance of all SSL/CTLs. And a length & height is also missing. Engines in the 4 CTL models, RT-30, RT-60, RT-75 & RT-120, are listed, respectively, as Perkins 403D-15, Perkins 404D-22T, Cummins QSF2.8, & Cummins QSF3.8. Does anyone have any good or bad to say about these engines?? I'd be most interested in the Cummins QSF2.8 in the RT-75. What does "R" stand for, maybe "revised", "revived",...?? All the engines are listed as Final Tier 4, but there is no info on how they achieve that, whether or not with DEF, DPF, DOC, SCR, what ever. I assume they are all common rail, but it's not listed. The RT-75 & RT-120 appear to be same size (track contact length=71", max. track width=20", undercarriage wheel size=15" F & R with 10" rollers overall width=71", alternator=120 amp), but the RT-120 is much heavier (11,265 lbs vs. 9,180 lbs) due to the larger engine & the addition of high flow aux. hydraulics. There is also a RT-120 Forestry with add-ons specific for that use. The 75 has a very low ground pressure of 3.2 psi with the 20" tracks, nearly as low as the 30 @ 3 psi. All the models have reasonable HP to weight ratios (gross HP/1,000 lbs) of greater than 8 (the 75 is the lowest at 8.1), & the 120 has an outstanding ratio of 10.7. By comparison, my NH L220 SSL is 9.3, a JCB 260T CTL is only 6.9, & Cat MTLs are a 257D @ 9.2, a 287D @ 7.5, a 297D/D2 @ 9.7/9.2, & a 297D/D2 XHP @ 10.2/10.1. The cabs appear to be much better (less "primitive"), but there is not enough visual info to judge. Interestingly, the joystick controls on all models appear to be ISO only (not a problem for me), & on the 30 thru 75 models are listed as "pilot hydraulic Joysticks", vs. the "electronic joysticks" in the 120. To me this means real hydraulic pilot controls vs. E-H (electric over hydraulic) on the 120. Since IMO no one has done E-H perfectly yet, & certainly they don't have the "feel" of real pilot controls, the availability of real hydraulic pilot controls is a plus, albeit a little "old school". It's not clear if any of the models still have the built-in rear receiver hitch that the older ASV's had. I would hope so, since IMO that was a stroke of genius not duplicated by any other manufacturer. At least the 60 & 75 models list 'bucket positioning" as an option. But it's not clear what this means, whether "load cushioning", "self leveling", "return to dig", or some combination. And finally, the current dealer listing shows NO dealers in NY state, with only a couple in the entire NE US. I would love to actually look at these new RT models up close & personal, but it doesn't look promising yet. Maybe some of the parent company (Manitex International) dealers will handle them. Has anyone actually touched one??
I almost forgot...the other obvious spec missing for ASV CTL's is whether they are radial lift or vertical lift. They all look radial lift, & perhaps that's what the "R" in the "RT-" model name really means. I took a quick look at their SSL's, & sure enough, their models are "RS-" for radial skid & "VS-" for vertical skid. But I do agree with RentalShop's comments above about market share....I can't understand why ASV would bother with a SSL, when all the other players have got that market about saturated. What does ASV have in a wheeled skid that is unique or outstanding?? Maybe ground clearance, but certainly in the CTL/MTL market they are unique. They have by far the lightest ground contact of any manufacturer....Their closest competitor is Cat, with their MTL line that uses the ASV undercarriage. But Cat's MTLs are not purpose-built for tracks, & don't have the balance or ground clearance that ASV has. But with Cat's D series, they do have much better cabs & E-H controls, & unquestionably better parts & service support, so ASV will likely never compete in those areas.
I don't understand why they built a SSL either, I know the Terex machines were identical to the Takeuchi SSL's. Did anyone else notice that the wheeled ASV's, the doors on the enclosed cabs look really similar to the Cat B series cab doors? Its really thick and about the same shape, just caught my attention.
Stump Wally.......thanks for the extensive data. You've been a busy beaver compiling data.......good stuff. Nice description here on the Cummins QSF2.8 http://www.oemoffhighway.com/product/10700479/cummins-inc-qsf28-engine and the 3.8 http://www.oemoffhighway.com/product/10862602/cummins-inc-qsf38-tier-4-final-engine Nice touch if they have Cummins and stick with them. I do have some spec sheets the ASV rep gave me showing Deutz engines. Both great engines with Deutz my pick because they freely give the troubleshoot how-to and codes to anyone that wants them. No proprietary nonsense at Deutz. I'm hoping to post some 'stick time' feedback and provide detailed answers to your further questions after Joel comes back from a day at the ASV Proving Grounds later this month........look for it here. BTW, ASV does have 6 reps crisscrossing the country setting up distribution so maybe someday in the future the brand will be revived. Would be nice to have a major league machine in the smaller dealerships again.
Gap...thanks for the engine info. I just talked on the phone with the ASV, LLC sales rep from near Pittsburgh, here are some notes: Confirmed that the reps are in the process of getting smaller dealerships to handle the ASV line, size about like a typical Kubota dealer. ASV actually makes the wheeled skids for Takeuchi. ASV wants to be able to offer a full line of tracked & wheeled skids to the smaller dealers. He confirms that the joysticks described as ""pilot hydraulic" are in fact just that, & NOT E-H. I've asked the rep to get me some more specific info on a RT-75, & I am looking forward to hearing some feedback from your "Joel"... What models are you interested in?? Or what is your business...& why are you interested in a revived ASV product line??
Stumpy Wally....There are various models I'd rent out. I much prefer buying machines from smaller dealers who go out of their way to keep my machines up and running so I can actually rent them out. I don't like the way the Big 5 mfrs. 'control' their dealers but I still need the best machine I can get.......hoping a revived ASV understands that.
Gap Power...I had assumed from your location that you were near the Delaware Water Gap. That might have been a location I could visit when I return periodically for a visit to the area I grew up in, which is about 40 miles up the Delaware River on the NY side of the border with PA. But, when I put your "Gap, PA" into Google Earth, I learned that you are a little SW of Philadelphia & West Chester, PA. I zoomed in, snooped around, & WALA! I found your rental business & sign using Google's Street View. Too bad you're so far away... Would you anticipate having much call for ASV's tracked machines for wet areas, with their very low ground pressure?? Or not so much in your area??
GapPowerWilly.... Do you rent any skid steer loaders or track loaders currently ? I am not a big fan of the big manufacturers either, but Bobcat and Deere had very aggressive pricing at the Rental Show in Atlanta. They were happy and interested to gain my business even though I run a very small operation. Ohio Cat sells new skids and tracks for less than others sell used machines. Hate to say it but it's the economy of scale that gives them the edge.
Stumpy Wally.......seems like the track machines are the rage here. If price were the same nearly everyone would rent them ahead of the wheeled ones. Grading on hills is what we hear most of........with some asking for the wet area flotation.
Rental Stop......I do rent Case, NH and Takeuchi. I just wonder if dealers selling the Big 5 are 'forced' to use the skid loaders as loss leaders.......with heavy handed mfr.'s assuring them that will bring larger iron sales? That is not so much a conspiracy theory as it is knowing that in this area of PA the dealers rejoice if they make markups over 7%. Why do market conditions force such a low markup? Not sure. A few make it up by selling a machine per day but the rest are just spinning their wheels.
Caterpillar dealer in Ohio sells the skids cheap to gain market share. More market share, better prices on everything they buy. They funnel rebates from big equipment into the back end on skids. I have a buddy with a 242D (cab/hvac) $300/month lease. I am renting it out and paying his lease. Deere and Bobcat dealers don't seem to give anything anyway. The specials at the ARA show were subsidized by manufacturers. They don't usually move that much otherwise. The local Case/New Holland dealer runs a big rental operation. I wouldn't buy from a competitor. I have heard stories that repairs have exceeded the original cost of the New Holland. Some said they have bought machines back. They actually added Wacker Nueson skids as well last year. Won't buy Wacker anything, they don't talk to little guys, they said buy from another dealer when I was looking at plate compactors. Same as JLG, they don't give me the time of day.
last I knew, Mabie Bros. in Kirkville, which is east of Syracuse is still a dealer, 313-687-7891
My primary concern buying a ASV/Terex machine would be the parts availability and whether ASV will even be in business in the not too distant future. I'm an actual ASV RC-50 owner and think they are good performing machines that have seriously fallen behind the other CTL manufacturers. Terex's acquisition was an unmitigated disaster and essentially destroyed the future of ASV. They have become a nonfactor in the market with negligible market share which they need to keep the factory open. Based on feedback from a current northern Wisconsin dealer I've dealt with I would be surprised if they are still making machines in two years. Good luck with your choice.
Dig deep...it's good to hear your opinion, I respect and trust what you say. Is terex totally out of the MTL game now? I think the machines will pretty much out perform and outwork most other machines in their class but the build quality is just terrible. I have a pt-30 and had been thinking of a 60 but this makes me second guess that. They really aren't commercial quality. It's more like a Home Depot lawn mower quality. Too bad but really no surprise, I guess.
In my opinion Terex is out of the entire construction industry in North America and not just CTLs. Based on what I've heard I'd be shocked if Terex dealers took delivery of 100 ASV built CTLs in 2015. It's almost sad, because I'm like you. I have really liked the performance of the ASV machine. Unfortunately, they haven't kept up with the competition and their current ownership situation isn't good for their long term survival. Neither Terex (49%) or Manitex (51%) is a really healthy company, nor are they willing to inject any capital into ASV for R&D or marketing so ASV is going to sink or swim on their own. Unfortunately, they need volume to survive and I just don't see it happening in today's really crowded market. Sadly, I think they'll end up like Thomas--a company that made a decent product with a loyal following, but not enough of a following to keep the doors open.
Despite my interest in an ASV RT-75, I share everyone's concerns about the viability of the company ASV, LLC. But in my continuing quest for info on the 75, I have learned from the ASV sales rep for the NE that: - They no longer offer a rear hitch on their units. The older ASV/Terex units had a built-in receiver hitch on the rear. He said that "...to manufacturing it was an option that was rarely ordered and did not justify keeping the option available." I voiced my opinion that the rear receiver hitch was a stroke of genius, & that it was a huge mistake to eliminate it because it was one of the unique features of their units, & as niche players they need to cultivate - not eliminate - those features. - The joystick controls are really hydraulic pilot controls, not E-H. This is not necessarily a bad thing. - The ground clearance for the RT-75 is an outstanding 14"!!
Bumping this back into action. I'm doing some research on ASV and would love to have a chat with anyone who contributed here to ask some additional questions. If you are available for a quick phone call, it would be great to connect. Let me know!
Late to the discussion here but nonetheless. We extensively demoed Cat MTLs and then ultimatetly bought an ASV. We tried the VT70 and RT75HD. The 75 is an awesome machine, we got it for snow stacking where other machines simply can’t drive. Combined between demo and owning we have about 100 hrs on one. It has less cab features than a caterpillar but is way better for actual durability and daily use. Visibility out the rear is also significantly better. Track openness for cleaning is wonderful, doesn’t load up the machine even when plowing through deep crusty snow. Happy to answer questions if anyone has them!
Did someone say “late to the party?” That would be me friends... I do indeed have a 2018 RT-75HD, and have absolutely loved every single minute of the 78.6 hours it currently has, however, I parked in the barn one afternoon after about an hour or 2 of light lifting and moving things, which my HD didn’t even realize I wasn’t just on a leisurely stroll around the farm, idled her down for a moment, and shut her down for the afternoon. The following morning I climb in the cab, heat up the glow-plugs briefly (it’s 75-80°f in Wisco this time of year) and hit the key only to receive a whole bunch of nothing?!? It’s acting as though I’m not even turning the key to the “Start” position other than putting a finger on the starter relay to feel it trip, I would’ve though nothing at all was happening... • Battery is full/clean/good connections • all fuses and relays tested/checked for current and/or proper operation • all safety lockouts trip their designated relay when triggered • all Hydraulic Lockouts are in their correct “Start” position or Neutral position for proper start-up • the coolant lever was just shy of the sight-glass, but not low enough to trip a fault code • Oil levels are within acceptable range So at this juncture, it can’t be anything TOO serious, I mean, at 78.6hrs she’s barely broke in much less tried or worn, and I bought it less than 8 months ago (Mid-August of 2020) as NOS, 0.1hr rolled over when I got in and moved it for the first time off the delivery trailer.... with that said, does anyone have any last words of wisdom for me before I pull out the last 4 hairs on a balding mans scalp, anything I may have overlooked? Under-looked? Something so simple that I just never thought of it because I’m too invested? Is my left foot in the wrong spot or did I just forget to “shake it all about”?? Heh, any input would help fellas.... Thanks in advance...
Hi. I have just brought a 2017 ASV vt70 and its got water leaking into the cab. I've sealed up almost everything on the roof, but it still pours in when it rains. Apart from that love the machine
Since this one has been revived, I'll put in my 2 cents. After the Terex disaster, ASV bought itself out of Terex, then got sold to Yanmar. I have over 2K hours, on my RC-30, have had some problems, but managed to fix them, or have the dealer do the grunt work on the bigger fixes. Overall its been a good little machine. If you go to youtube, there are videos of the new line-up, it looks like this neglected line is getting some attention, needed after Terex's neglect. For the record, my dealer is Chesapeake equipment, Laurel MD and Felton, DE...