Hello everyone. Its no secret that there are a huge amount of chinese equipment flooding our market. I have no interest in dealing with them. Inam looking to start a small dealership for mini x's, mini skids, and a few other things but I want non chinese but open to other counties. I want to be able to beat the big names brands on pricing but I won't even bother if it has to be chinese. I just want to deal with them.
I would recommend looking at some of the used equipment sites and listing all the brands available. Then look up the closest dealer for each of these brands. You will have to find a brand without local representation. Then search for reviews of all the brands that meet your interest. When you find a company without local representation that makes a good product you can start a discussion on whether you could represent their products.
All I have in my area is Cat, JCB, Kubota, and Bobcat. I've been eyeing Yanmar but I might not be a big enough show for them to take me on.
Kato, they are made in Japan and pretty decent quality.
Thanks, I'll check them out right now.
I personally live down the road from a Richie Brothers auction. I drive by their yard everyday. Sadly near the fence line I see all brand new tiny excavators, mini trucks and other equipment. All brand new and all from Chyna. Very sad to see an auction is being used to pump this crap into the country. By pass dealers. Good luck on your purchase.
Thank you. I am trying to be a dealer so I do care about what I put out there.
Welcome to the Forums Cody! Glad to have you. What is your local market and customer base? Are your customers going to be homeowners, small contractors, large contractors or a combo?
Thank you. I am mainly looking at landowners and smaller contractors so I can avoid higher overhead of big equipment. I am quickly finding that any korean, japanese, or american brands are right up there with where the big dealers would be price wise which is discouraging. I was hoping some of the lessor known reliable brands would be mid level pricing.
It's hard to compete with companies that pretty much pay their workers pennies a day. I think there is a video breaking down what it would cost to build a smart phone in the United States vs China, something like double the cost.
Do you have a current business now, that you are expanding to having equipment? Or is this a stand alone new business? The "newest" in the equipment side I've seen is wacker neuson, they've made a big push in equipment that I've seen at rental houses.
I am acquiring a commercial lot this week and will be new. I worked at a rental house for 7 years and for the last 13 have sold concrete tools, supplies, and equipment. I am entirely funding this myself so it will be small to start and likely always be smallish.
I think you'll have a hard time with any of the larger brands. There used to be a lot of smaller equipment dealers, but most have gotten consolidated. I know Gehl used to have some smaller ag/ construction dealers. Maybe mustang? toro, ditch witch? Vermeer has some walk behind skids but I don't think mini ex's. I'm not sure of the market you're trying to hit with mini ex's and mini skids, wouldn't the homeowner and smaller contractors be more interested in renting that type of equipment vs buying it? Nothing domestic or korean/japanese is ever going to compete with the chinese cheap imports price wise. I do see some small places becoming "dealers" of the chinese imports by buying a couple of conex's full direct from china. Then doing final assembly and sales here. But that's not really being a dealer with dealer support.
You're going to need a good mechanic and service dept. with parts support. I think having rentals as well is the way to go but you'll have to do delivery and pick up. Any better brands are probably going to want you to buy a minimum amount of machines. It might be hard to offer much lower prices than established dealers if you're selling comparable equipment. You need to do something better that will get you a good reputation. Free maintenance for the 1st 500 hours or free pick up and delivery on rentals over 2 days. Something along those lines that sets you apart. If you do rentals have a wide variety of attachments and keep them in top shape. I don't know your budget but it could be an expensive undertaking. If you get a good reputation, suppliers will come to you to distribute their products.
Have you considered agricultural machinery as well? There are a lot of smaller companies that have very good products and good backup.
I’ve found that too on pricing. Looking at 3.5-5 ton mini excavators some of the lower end Japanese brands like Kato were only $5000 cheaper than the premium Japanese brands like Kubota and Takeuchi. For that price difference most people will pick the higher end brand. The Sany brand machines from China were about $10k cheaper IIRC, but now your back to poorer quality, and little to no dealer or manufacturer support. They are selling some but I think most people realize at that price point it’s still not worth the gamble. At the bottom you have the no name Chinese machines that seem to be flooding the market lately. The price is just so cheap I think a lot of people can’t resist. You get what you pay for couldn’t ring more true. IMO those machines are just a poorly assembled kit of parts that you can hopefully make into a barely useable machine.
Yes I am looking at all options. Hose reels, fuel pumps, and more.
That is what I was afraid of. I was trying to stay one man operation.
In the 70s I had a couple of partners in a shop business.I was the the welding and fab side ,one partner the parts guy and the other was an excelent Case mechanic.We had a lot of Case construction equipment in our area but no dealer representation. We aproached Case for parts support with no luck,but persisted with them and able to become a Case Ag dealer which gave a backdoor into the parts . The construction side was successful but in the end those darn farm tractors buried us and Case was too bullheaded to allow us a straight construction dealership. Big OEM manufacturers are pretty complex for us average tradesmen to deal with. Id stick with picking the best of manufacturers ,and starting with good used stuff.Just remember product support,repairs and delivery are the key. Keep an eye on your local market and see whats needed . One of the most successful rental houses in my area has been around for ages and resisted takeovers from the big guys im sure. They are specialists in odd stuff for mill and industrial . Lots of heavy rigging ,air tuggers chain blocks ,big portopowers big air tools of all sorts as well as the standard items for the public. Good luck with your venture .
Thank you. Used equipment is an option for sure. I am also looking at air compressor companies. We mainly have just box stores not offering support on things like that so I want an american made compressor line.
Just a thought - Is there a market for a construction supply, the concrete tools and supplies you have been selling combined with a small equipment dealership? Wacker would be an excellent choice as they make all sorts of small power tools and a mini + CTL line. You could sell rebar, wire mesh, chairs, etc along with hand tools. In my area those types of shops must have made money because they have all be bought up by the big guys. Whitecap just bought the last large local company.
Yes thats what I am sort of working on. White Cap isn't too liked by contractors compared to locally owned because White Cap can't deviate from corperate price setting and local guys have some flexibility.
There is a guy local to me that used to be a used car dealer. He’s been buying used mini’s and track loaders from united rentals and sunbelt, etc. He then takes them and paints, fixes any obvious problems (hoses/tires) and resells them. He says he makes more profit per unit sold/ and doesn’t have to deal with financing like he did with used cars. So he gets to sell name brand equipment at a discount to new. And he does no after sale repair. He mostly has bobcat case taki , and gehl units. Even some cats, if he can get them bought right.
Thats cool he has a niche like that. I can understand wanting to steer clear of the car stuff. I looked and anything with a title in this state as a dealer requires bonding and reports to the state even on low end used stuff like old atvs or boats.
Renting larger tools and more specialized tools could be a good option. I had to rent a 1" drive cordless impact and most of the rental outfits didn't have them. I got one from Hertz industrial division. They had a universal and the 1 1/2" socket I needed too. Welder rentals is another good option. It's really hard to rent a Mig welder with a gas cylinder. If you could get set up with a welding supply for gases and cylinders could be lucrative. Same thing with a cutting torch. Good luck trying to rent one with cylinders. You could use propane since it's safer and a lot less expensive. You would want to make sure the renter knew how to use it. Many people would already have a propane BBQ tank they could use and would only need oxygen. I think it would be really hard to be a 1 man show though. If you did deliveries, you'd have to close until you got back. I think you'd get burnt out pretty fast trying to do everything by yourself. Contractors can be a 1 man show because they don't have to run a store.They go to the customers location and other customers can wait to get put on the schedule. Just having someone to answer the phone is a great help.
I am hoping to stay mid to higher level items so I am not dealing with quite as many people in a day is my logic for being alone. I do think renting could do well but I worked in rental and didn't like working both days of the weekend and having people destroy your equipment.
You do realize that whatever you decide to do, you're going to be working long hours and weekends trying to get established. You won't be able to have set hours. You won't necessarily be dealing with customers but with all the other aspects of running a business. Curious how old you are and if you've ever been involved with helping run a business? You also have to figure out how often your higher level items are going to be needed. You need other stuff too so you always have money coming in. Hard to stay afloat with only a few specialty items.
I've been managing a business for someone else for 13 years. 45 years old. I am paying for everything cash up front no borrying yet so that gives me some flexibility. I know it will be tough but it will be worth it.
I rolled by his yard on my way home and took some pictures. He's got 15-20 compact track loaders and a couple mid/smaller excavators right now. The track loaders are $20-$40,000. He has a assortment of buckets and some mower/trencher attachments also. Being able to sell name brand stuff- with no warranty- that the customer can get his own support for, would be a big plus if you want to be a one man band.
It could work if you could get a few regular customers but it will take awhile to get established.
Thats kind of what I have in mind except I will be doing hoses, fuel pumps, hose reels, and some other stuff. I have 4 acres amd plan on using about 1-1.5 for the business.
I don't understand the blanket hate of chinese stuff, sure some of it is junk but some is great. The smaller hydraulic breakers are great as well as the plate tampers, fraction of the cost, and way better when most guys don't take care of stuff anyway.
A lot of us are looking at the bigger picture and not just at the items themselves. There are real and long lasting implications to both the loss of domestic jobs/companies and China's rise to power. Peoples love for cheap crap and lots of it has just been pouring fuel on this fire.
Experience - The fact I've been disappointed with cheap Chinese products over the years is the reason I shy away from them. I've been to China twice, it's not the western world we all know and love.
So I been in contact with Kato and something that seems amiss to me is nowhere on facebook or forums or anywhere shows anyone using their smaller excavators or the AS12 narrow skid steer. Is their presence in the U.S. really that poor? I mean my Bobcat dealer in a town of 60,000 has more units on the lot than I can find of pics or video on the entire internet of smaller Kato equipment for some reason.
Never really thought about Kato. Don't they make mini-ex's for other brands? Thought I read that somewhere but could be mistaken. Here's a Kato dealer in North AL. They list their rental rates, might be of value. Excavating Archives - Robin Rents Robin Rents excavating equipment- from small mini excavators that can be used in tight spaces, to large machines that can dig deep holes or trenches as well as excavator attachments. robinrents.com Those smaller tracked dumpers would probably be a big rental item. Willie a fellow Admin here at HEF has experience with tracked dumpers. He might be able to give some insight on them.
They show that they are setup in Kentucky and have some nice looking products. I talked with a rep. It's like they don't even exist though outside of the fact they are based out of Kentucky. I just can't find anyone online using their mini x's or the smaller skid steer. It actually looks like a nice little machine but I don't know if they have ever even sold one.
From my experience the Japanese equipment I have owned and operated has been top notch. And I mean the Catabishi excavators and small dozers, says Cat on the side but made in Japan. Might be worth a trip to Kentucky and see them in person.
Interesting niche. I’m seeing many, small, mom&pop, back-yard, side-gig, rental company start ups in my area. Kubota mostly. One guy is using Bobcat gear, but actually opened a store front.
I think its great. I think it works out better for everyone that way. I been in sales for 14 years now and can tell you the bigger a company is the worse everything gets.
Sunbelt is arriving and purchasing all the established rental houses. Nobody wants to deal with Sunbelt. I’d rather rent from Joe Bob down the street. There is another small outfit, using an all Caterpillar fleet. He competes very well against the CRS, due to better customer service.
Its a interesting business model, that I've seen in the equipment rental and waste hauling. Start up, get a good little business going, and sell out to the big boys. Wait for your non compete to expire, and start up all over again.
There aren’t as many Kato machines around as other brands, but they are out there. Both our Case dealer and New Holland dealer sell and rent Kato machines as well. Usually they have at least a couple 3.5-5 ton mini ex’s in stock. My brother down in NC frequently rents a 3.5t mini from the local rental house there. Also the Canycom tracked concrete buggies are made by Kato and are extremely popular. The other reason you mat not be seeing a lot of machines is the Kato brand is relatively new in the US. IHI was fairly popular several years ago, IHI is now Kato.
Model---that's a scheme.
Yep - Been there, done that. Non-compete expired years ago and kicking the idea around to start another roll-off company. All the small guys here have been consumed by the larger guys. Most people in the construction business like to deal with a real live human they can build a relationship with not a 1-800 #.
That is the standard procedure around my area for waste haulers. It's like a 5-10 year cycle. Once they get bought out by the big boys they change their name every 2 years. Veolia/Advanced Disposal/Waste Management/Republic. I think it's Republic currently anyway . . .
Green For Life (GFL) is the new big boy around here.
Yeah, them too, I forgot them . . . Speaking of which, I love the "green" thing they do. "Think Green", "Green for Life". Like the refuse business is so environmentally friendly . . . lol
GFL sold a lot of locations to republic..... We've also had a three or four new roll off companies start up in our area in the last two years.
Republic recently bought Santec and GFL bought WCA. The largest regional hauler we have is AmWaste. I expect them to sell out in the not too distant future.
GFL is big here in BC to,they must be huge now. Id rather deal with guys i know than a headless corporate monster .
The headless corporate monster is a real joke when you are trying to get dumpsters timed right on a demo job . . .
Getting back on track I talked a little more with Kato. Their equipment looks really solid. I think I am going to grab a 1.7t excavator and the narrow skid steer to give them a try. It seems like a huge risk because now more than ever the market is flooded with chinese equipment and I have looked into that stuff as well. For the same money I can get litterly 3 machines to one Kato but I just have a feeling that stuff is pure garbage even though there are people saying theirs is lasting. Those are guys with like 80 machine hours. I think the Japanese equipment will be in use thousands of hours longer than the chinese. Its just the problem of selling that on a buyer.
We have some kind of a trade show going on at our convention center here in town. I spotted a brand new hyundai excavator and clt in the parking lot. A local dealer is carrying their line. Had a pretty nice looking volvo, looks like its expensive enough for only a gov't entity.
I know it's a lot of money, but the things I see selling the most are the Kato HD35V5 and HD50V5 mini excavators and the Canycom concrete buggies. The 1.7t might be a good seller too, IDK. I doubt there is a huge market for the small narrow wheeled skid steers like there used to be. The stand on tracked ctl's have taken a big part of that market, the rest has gone to the concrete buggies. A lot of guys figured out you could load those 36" wide tracked concrete buggies with a small mini ex. They haul dirt, gravel, and debris just as good as concrete, basically a mini tracked dumper. You are correct on your assumption of those small Chinese mini excavators being complete garbage. A lot of them use grade 5 bolts instead of pivot pins, **** poor cylinders, and a lot of joints are not greaseable. On top of that, the little engines they use don't have pressure oil lubrication, run it too long on an angle or on too steep of a hill and it'll toast the motor.
I always figured it was built too light when a standard bucket has internal braces. I can see it on a wide snow bucket but not a standard digging bucket.
Ritchie bros Nisku had dozens of small Chinese minis powered by lawnmower engines. Kingpost made from poorly welded thin gauge plate (rather than heavy casting). We rented an IHI 40 once, nice machine with smooth hydraulics.
Ritchie Bros has a few of the small cheap excavators that are inoperable for sale here. All say fuel issues with less than 1 hour on the meter. The normal selling price of them is too high to be a toy for me though. I keep wondering who is using these.