Spoke with an old Catskinner/Cat mechanic friend today. He was telling me that a few days ago he was visiting a friend of his that is a larger dismantler of heavy equipment. They had a not to old high track D6 in there that they were parting out. As the machine looked to be in really fair shape by appearance Gary asked what was wrong that it and why it was being parted out. The owner of the yard said that nothing was wrong except that it had no cab, air conditioner, or heater. They were pulling the engine to send to a customer. The previous owner apparently could not get any operator to stay on it. Gary asked what they had paid for it and his friend said $10,000. He then told Gary that there was absolutely no market for open machines so it was being parted out. Are we really getting that spoiled?
Yep, operators are now marshmallows. I recall operating cranes back in the 80's, no heat, no AC, cab was a toaster oven in the summers or a cryogenic storage box in the winter. Now guys gotta have heat/AC. One thing I do notice, especially on excavators in our rental fleet. It's common for the job boss to tell the excavator operator "you can run the heat and AC, but you better have the cab door open". I think they do this to keep peace on the site, to keep the ground grunts from complaining about an operator working in climate controlled comfort while they either melt or turn into a block of ice. The problem with doing that, operating with the door open, that heat/AC unit sucks in all the job site dust. I've had to take apart many excavator cabs to get to the heat/AC unit to clear the pile of dirt built up on the evaporator core.
Sounds like job security for willie59 . Keep up the good work ! Had a similar conversation with a buddy trying to sell a mid 80's Cat D7G . No enclosed cab , no air & heat ......... No sale . HeavyEquipmentForums
I am an owner operator , not to come to the operators defense but I bought my first cab machine 3 years ago. I get more seat time due to the better conditions. I was the same way before , when I turned 40 my allergies are terrible and we had a drought. When I showered , the bottom of the shower looked like chocolate milk. I had ways to combat the heat , start early , quit when it gets hot, sometimes go back in the evening when it cools off. I had a 6H open , and spent 6 weeks in a lake bed pushing mud. With the fan pushing forward on a 90 plus degree day it really was not bad. I peeled off my shirt and went on. On the backhoe when I get off and on several times a day I don't see the need for the cab as much. If I were digging 1500' a day with it then yes to a cab on the backhoe. I'd love to find a big pusher in a couple years for heavy work then finish with my smaller machine.
I started running scrapers in the mid 70's... No cab, no climate control, and a noisy Detroit next to me or in front of me. Just seemed to be the normal thing at the time. I got to try out a fairly new 637 once, A/C stereo, tilt wheel, all the good stuff... It just couldn't out work my old hot and noisy '69 TS-24. Oh, for the price on the 637, I could have bought 40 more TS-24s. I was never spoiled.
$10K for an operational D6H? I'd given him $20K.:cool2 Why didn't they just retrofit an aftermarket cab and HVAC unit? :beatsme As an owner/operator I do like the nice cabs with all the bells and whistles. An enclosed cab is more productive in our brutal summers.
That was my first thought too! On another thought. I often said that we should have kept at least one of the old Hough 120 loaders at each quarry. Just to let operators know that if they damage something on the 980G-K's that is the machine they will be running till I get around to fixing the Cat! OH Shoot! Did I forget to order that oil seal? Can't believe they are on back order again!
I've hired a dirt guy to do some land clearing in order too make room for a shop. I've been hauling away the waste in a 1968 F600 grain truck. One tree I told him to take out had bees in it (I didn't know or would have left the tree standing). Well this dosent bother the dirt guy one bit, he's in a nice Deere 250G with a cab and AC. Me on the other had to roll up the windows and try to seal the old truck up too keep the bees out. AC would have been nice then.... But this $2800 truck has paid for its self a few times over just in the amount of debris its hauled off on this clearing job. All it needed was a hoist cylinder repack. If really like to find a good running open cab dozer for 10k. I could really use a dozer.
A lot of us landowners and farmers and ranchers could use equipment without cabs. It pays to own equipment you only use 100 hours a year. You run them when the weather is nice. As a matter of fact, since I only buy older junk that needs TLC at 15% of new cost, I regard an open operator station an advantage because they are more service friendly. I would have snatched up that dozer in a minute. Now if I had to make 40 hours a week year round, I would have a different attitude.
I spent the summer before most recent in a truck doing service calls with no A/C between jobs. Because I was going to retire the truck for one with A/C anyway. I probably could have made up the extra money by fixing the A/C. I got so pooped by the end of the day I'm sure I missed out on available work because I just didn't want to go any more. Now it's something I will pay good money for if broken.
Local contractor had a early 80's Deere 750 dozer, no cab just ROPS and had it on my place pushing in a road, he offered it to me once then almost immediately traded it off to a dealer for a used 963C. I missed it by realistically DAYS for less than $20k, had I been smart I would own it now as the dealer it went to sent it to a boneyard just to be rid of a "Old" non-cab no A/C track no one wanted and sold it for half what they gave for trade in. I also missed that by a few days, still kicking myself. I too am older and getting softer these days but still push dirt with my old open station Allis loader or farm operations with a open station Allis 2wd tractor(still diesel), there are days I look in envy at the neighbors units but shudder at the payments they make each year only to 'trade up' after a few short years as small things fail on those soft machines. Grade contractor still comes and does work for us, uses primarily Deere hoe/loaders, Cat excavators and tracked loaders.
I was in there while it was getting stripped. Truly a shame as it was a front line works ready machine. Track frames had not been updated but not cracked either. Good drivetrain, good paint, straight tin except for the rops (literally looked like a hoe bucket pulled on it). On 345's they pull the engine, finals and the rest goes in the dumpster.
Due to MSHA noise regulations, you really can not use any open-cab machine in a mining application. When the newer noise rules started being enforced in the early 90's, it made open-cab machines a thing of the past in mining, for the most part. So, there is no market for cabless machines, anywhere in the mining business nowadays. Add-on aftermarket cabs with A/C are kind of ok, but I have never found any that were economically viable,( I put cabs on 14 Cat machines in the early 90's), or that held up like a factory cab does. The upfront cost, and poor performance of the aftermarket cab components were factors in going new, or used closed factory cab, for the rest of our fleet.
Thats a damn shame mind sharing what yard? Always looking for parts Maybe they are junking an 8k with a new undercarriage (;
7950 Ziegler Shakopee. Old general tractor. Just jump in the scrap bins and drag out what you need when nobody is looking.
Gary asked him the same thing. He said he would have bought it in a heart beat. The reply was that they had a market for the engine. I'm sure it was easy money to sell the engine and have lots of stuff left. Easy quick dollar was the bottom line.
You got it.
Noise was never a problem out here. Dust is the devil now days. I've seen many canopy machines sold out of a gravel pit or coal mine because the operators refused to wear respirators or even a dust mask. The logging industry on the other hand would for the most part in my experience rather have a canopy. I've always had a love/hate relationship with air conditioning. The loggers wanted it and all was good with the aftermarket Red Dot units we installed until the rear entry cabs came out. All that window glass turned the cabs into green houses. Up sizing the air conditioning to handle the extra area turns into a logarithmic scale. Double the area of the glass and cab and you need three times the cooling capacity with about four times the cost. The gypos just knocked out a window or two until it could get sorted out. The marshmallows cried like a four year old brat that stubbed a toe. Usually the Weyerhaeuser or Simpson people were the worst.
I've never ridden a horse with EROPS, or a quad or dirt bike with AC or heat, or a dune buggy with a windshield. More dust and mud is better when we're having fun... I guess the dirty, real, environment is only fun when we are playing, not when we're working. A nice cab is a good thing for farming or mining or large scale excavation, i'd guess; but a closed cab is not a good idea for construction equipment working close to people on the ground. On construction sites i really don't like to look thru glass to see what's happening, or lean out of the cab to hear what someone is yelling.
I've got cabs on all but two machines. I can take the heat, when it gets to hot neither the loader or I like it. I start early and usually quit at noon on farm work. Heat in winter is a great thing, sitting on the mini ex in real cold weather is no fun. Luckily when it's that cold it won't dig the frozen ground anyway. I just can't see making the big payments on new machines at my age. Older payed for equipment doesn't have to work to support itself.
Stopped by the undertakers office yesterday. 320c Didn't want to fix the water seeping out under the head. My father in law worked there during the 80's dismembering bodies. He said quite a difference in the condition of machines that get cut nowadays. All of them drive in.
Planned obsolescence, a terrible thing and was supposed to be stopping years ago but seems has only accelerated. Cars too are a growing PITA to work on today, had to put brakes on a 2010 Impala, bent a Snap-On long handle 1/2" ratchet I have used on trucks for years to break loose the caliper retention bolts. Was literally standing on it bouncing to remove 14mm fine thread bolts, come to find they had been 'dipped' in Loctite, all the way up to the bolt head. 1/2" impact just hammered, never once did it knock them loose. Last trip to a boneyard for my Allis I watched as a D6H had a gas axe taken to it for pieces and yes, they drove it up to the cut equipment, it did not drive away. So many newer machines end up in true scrap yards, to be melted down or sent to China or S Korea in chunks.
If we can get an extra two hours per shift out of an operator and equipment by upgrading the cab with AC we get ahead in a pretty short period of time. Just do your analysis on operator fatigue vs heat and noise... Howard
I can understand (just barely) the economics of chopping up "outdated" equipment back when the price of steel spiked, but at today's low prices it would seem old running open cab equipment would get sold to farmers and ranchers for more than Asians will pay.
Takes too long, and too much money to fix them right. As noted a 320C cut up due to a head leak. Could have put an entire engine in and still had a great machine.
Same with all kinds of things these days. Somethings make a little sense like small walk behind lawn mowers. By the time you pay someone to remove a carb and clean it out or replace it you are a third of the way to a new one. Now this can be good for the guys like me who like fixing things. I bought one new mower when I lived at the house we rented when I got married back in 1971-2. Right now I have three that run good, one needs a new seal as it is leaking oil. I've probably sold or given half a dozen away over the years and never spent more than the cost of breakfast for two on any one of them! Just wish I could find someone with a Case 1845 skid-steer who was scrapping it due to a failed coupler on the pumps! Anyone know of one parked behind a barn?
noise rules? they can't put headphones on? works for me..
Or headphones with am/fm radio built in them. Perfect for my D8H. LOL:thumbsup
I was wondering about that myself. I like enclosed cabs and heat and air as much as the next guy. But I do like running dozers with open ROPS, I think I have better visibility. Maybe it's all in my head just because I learned on dozers with just ROPS. And on a backhoe or excavator, I like keeping that window open so I can hear what the men are trying to tell me.
I think what is even worse is when companies decide that machines must be scrapped even though another buyer offers equal or greater price. One mining contracting company I worked for had the policy that if it is no use to us, then we will destroy it so it is no use to anyone else. Some of the good, servicable gear that I have seen crushed or cut up would make you cry.
Today I could have used a cab. I was playing in the woods at 11F pushing in a new loging road. No, I was warm enough with my D4D's open ROPS but when that piece of willow brush slapped me hard on the cold cheek I just about cried.
Yeah old-iron , an open station ROPS cab will sure keep a feller from falling asleep on the job . My take on it is window glass & trees don't mix well . It would just get busted out so may as well stay with the standard ROPS cab . Sounds like you are back in good shape & full swing .:thumbsup When it comes to visibility & communication Open station rules !
You're very lucky. A good friend lost an eye from the same thing 5 years ago.
I always wear my safety glasses on my old machines and much of the time I work on them. Every once in a while one hears or feels a spot of dirt or crap hitting them, especially when dealing with half frozen, stick covered ground. Wearing safety glasses is a good habit left over from years of having to wear them on the job. The eyes and upper face actually stay warmer in the cold breese when covered with the type that wrap around to the sides. It was bright enough yesterday that I was wearing the medium dark ones.
My name is Kevin and I am a spoiled operator Local #841 . Confession time ? If I had wanted to labor , pipefit , ironwork , I would have . A cab with appropriate climate control is a must . I am 60 yrs old and the fun of bashing away on an open machine is gone . I grew up on the farm and planted corn , disced , whatever it took on open tractors . Dust, dirt, rain ,cold with those crummy old canvas heathousers . I sat on an open mini for a contractor last year in feb . 1 day and good by .
He was wearing safety glasses, the branch came up underneath them and pierced the lower eyelid and... too gory to go any further.
I hear that Kevin. Years back I was on an open 780 backhoe on an emergency job and got my fingers frostbit, ever since then I cant really take much of the cold.
I always loved mowing in open cab machines, be going just enough to keep ahead of the dust and enjoy the outdoors. One day mowing with a full cab JD6300 I hear this tick tick, tick tap tick noise, well jeebus I ran over a white faced hornets nest that was bigger than a case of oil, they were hammering against the glass, I made sure to take a few more close passes to really mulch them up, that day, for certain, I was glad to have a cab, I was miles and miles away from anything and likely would have been a goner! That reminds me, on my 350 dozer, for the winter, I swap the forward cooling fan out for a reverse, blows all the warm air under the floorboards
I used to push for a mine with an old d8k open cab. I would wear earplugs and muffs motorcycle goggles and a respirator. I would leave a beautiful golden tan color head to toe and make a muddy mess in the shower. I was very happy to get my d9n back after I broke the frame on the 8. We have cabs on all our skid steers at work and they spoil you. I run my open can at home and like it on good weather days! Cabs are nice and essential sometimes, other times I love feeling the open air. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Many moons ago a friend and I were having breakfast at a local diner on Sunday morning....late January, extremely cold, single digit wind chills. Have to go dig up a frozen water line at a dairy farm when were done.... Better you than me, you have cab & heat. Need to unload the dozer, then go get the backhoe. I'll give you a hand...... Guess what, his dozer wouldn't start, neither would the backhoe. Hey, think your Bobcat will start? Hope not. Guess what? It started. Froze my arse off for half the day sitting on the backhoe attachment picking through 5' of frost to get to the break......never hated my own equipment so much in my life. Ed
If I am not spoiled, as I get older I want to be. After many years on open cab equipment, the last two pieces have cabs and I will never go back. I do think I am more productive with the cab but do feel I loose a little situational awareness.
I 2nd that, The only luxury I had as a young operator was a reversible fan and a curtain on a D8, always had a pair of insulated coveralls and gloves in the pickup. Ate a lot of dirt, ashes were the worst. Glad I did what I did but wouldn't want to go back.
I am a bit spoiled as well but still live in the open world as my budget just won't allow!! As to eye injury, I took a 3/4" cold chisel being used for a pitman arm wedge for removal to my left eye. Thru a safety glass, glass lens. Eye is still here, still sees some but best I can ever achieve is 20/100 with my glasses on. Happened 1987, thirty years coming up and still thankful I at least have the eye in the hole. Just had my latest followup, not much they can do with it to repair any further, cornea damage, iris torn up, lens inside had been flexed and has the initial indication (Still) from the impact of a cataract. I live on, not looking back and did not let it keep me from being mechanic nor driver or operator.
Just about half of our equipment are open cab. All of our dozers are the 963s have cabs but no ac as well as our excavators, scrapers, endumps. Some of our logging equipment and one dozer has ac.
Hey Dan, Were you suffering in the cold in Central California as a young operator.
Ha ha , not sub zero like some people I know but the wet fog we get is chilly and wind is wind, suffered more in the 105 degree heat.
That wet fog is something all right. I think the coldest I have ever been in my life was the first time I took my fishing boat out on San Francisco Bay. The next twelve years I put long johns and rain gear on no matter what the weather forcast was when I went out the gate.
I enjoy the "open air" concept of operation when it is done occasionally. If it was all the time, that would be a different story at my age. We got our first substantial snowfall overnight & here we are cleaning up the shove piles & hauling them to another area of the property. Have the fan pulling on the old 955L & it keeps the feet warm & dry at least.
Two things I have seen on some open can machines which I thighs was genius was a heated seat in a open can cat skidsteer, and a heater that kicked blew hot air below the seat right at your legs on a case excavator. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I like it when a dust devil sneaks up on you from behind and stirs up every molecule of dust on the deck, you just have to bail. Funny as hell if you have seen it happen to another tractor, guy sitting in the seat concentrating on his work and you see the whirl wind coming his way then the tractor stops, off jumps the operator trying to escape his own micro dust tornado :lmao
At 12 degrees out and wind today sitting on a open cab mini excavator, I was happy when the enclosed cab machine showed up. I'll never own another open cab machine so long as I can help it. Call me spoiled if you want :drinkup
I work for municipal water supplier in Long Island NY. We work rain or shine, cabs with heat is a must. AC is a nice option. Every winter we have s good cold snap followed by a quick thaw, that equates to 16 hour days and an occasional 24hr. The cab is essential Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So a few days ago I drove from my heated garage over to a friends farm. Myself and another buddy parked in his heated shop. rode to local pub for $1 burger night.:thumbsup Came back and drove my pickup out of his warn shop back to my heated garage. No need for a heavy jacket. It was -15F. Spoiled yes. Sure was nice though. ha
Ya for sure. With remote start and modern clothes, winter is not the same anymore. Still better pack some winter clothes though. Never know when some of this crap fuel will gel. It would happen to me about the same time my cell phone died.
A friends employer (municipality) just got a new D3 LGP..... traded off 2 surplus military machines, threw some extra cash in and new dozer. He said its got heat but no cab, ***? The guy that bought it sure as hell don't run it. It won't see a lot of hours, but your spending the money, getting a govt. discount make your guys comfortable. Ed