Well, I think most here know how I feel about it! LOL It would probably be a good idea to post some pointers for those that just cant resist the appeal of auction equipment. I have a lot of customers that ask me constantly about these machines, some listen and some don't. Those that don't are calling me as soon as the auction machine hits their yard because something has already failed, or is not working properly. I see a TON of threads here that mention a machine that was purchased at an auction, and know that customer feels like they got screwed. I had someone just last week call me about a motor grader they had bought at an auction 4 months ago, and it hasn't run 2 hours since. Nice looking machine for sure, but has major electrical issues keeping it shut down. So, here is a few things I know and have learned about auction equipment. Please add your .02 and just maybe...……..someone may learn something. 1. Know what you are looking and have some experience with that machine. If your looking for a dozer, at least know how it works and know the basics of checking it out. If you buy something you know nothing about, your just ASKING for it. 2. Don't buy into inspection reports being accurate. Let me tell you how that inspection report came about. A. The guy inspecting the machine knows how to do 2 things...…..1. start the machine and 2. pull levers. He walks around the machine and may make notes of leaks that are leaving a pond on the ground. He starts the machine then starts pulling levers or moving shift levers and such. If the machine has ANY reaction to said lever pulling, then it is noted as working, whether it works like it should or not. B. Don't be fooled in how a machine may look (visually). Too many times machines are cleaned up, repainted and decaled, or even sheet metal replaced because auctions KNOW that is what will sell a machine quick. Just because it looks really nice doesn't mean it will operate that way for you. C. If you are not allowed to actually check the equipment out or run it....PASS! Usually there is a major fault hiding in the shadows. D. Don't fool yourself thinking the machine looks good and the engine starts right up and sounds wonderful! The engine is only 15% of the operating systems of that equipment on average. It says NOTHING about the electrical, hydraulic, and the rest of the powertrain. E. If there is a "BUY NOW" price on a machine, is it more than likely a wreck. Most auction places know there is a MAJOR problem and they don't want the machine breaking down during the auction. If they throw a cheap buy now price on it, there is always some sucker that thinks he is stealing it, only to be miserable afterwards. F. Inspect the equipment YOURSELF. Don't rely On your buddy that only knows lawnmowers. If you have no one, then HIRE someone that does know, it will save you in the long run. Its your money, spend it wisely. Is there always a diamond in the rough...…….rarely, but it does happen. Auctions I compare to pulling the lever on a slot machine...…….90% of the time, YOUR A LOSER. If you don't do your homework and buy sight unseen (like a lot I know do) then you are just bending yourself over a barrel and trying to hand lube to everyone that passes by. Please add your advise or experiences!
For certain much of what I see at RB auctions and other auction yards is basic junk iron with a spray can overhaul. I do find that some of the more obscure attachments and parts can be a decent deal if you know what you are getting into. For example I got a decent trench bucket for the excavator at way less than I found anywhere. It is used but gets limited work and with a little hard face will last for all I ever need. Auctions of actual companies at their yard/business can be very good. Liquidation auctions often have many good deals. Much of our major shop equipment came this way. People also forget how much the buyers premium can add to cost. Then they see sticker shock when a lowboy runs $300 per hour with a 4 hour min. It all really comes down to knowing what you are looking at and what you have the ability to fix or put up with.
We have purchased a fair amount at auction. Overall i have had pretty good luck. We always inspect the equipment and set a price that we will not go higher. I bought 1 machine for 13k about 6 years ago. It alone has made more than 1 million and the lifetime maintenance has been about 15k total. Dont get me wrong we have gotten some gems. Mostly didnt inspect and they went cheap enough... If the price is right and its not a front line machine...
Well said man. When I used to manage an excavating fleet I’d cringe when something showed up with an auction sticker on it....
I always felt that much of the equipment being sold at an auction were from companies that were going out of business and that the first thing cut back on when a company is starting to loose money is maintenance. And like I said in another thread on auction equipment the so called "inspectors" hardly ever do much more that noting it started and ran and he didn't need hipboots to wade through the oil around the machine. And just remember the company knows when the inspector is going to show up so machine probably was started and run shortly before he got there and the cans of either were tossed in dumpster.
Assuming he has the discipline to evaluate machinery and pay no more than it's worth or leave without buying, a guy with a lot of spare time and smarts can find decent deals at auctions sometimes. It's a pastime for old retired mechanics and operators. A guy with a business to run usually doesn't have time to travel to all the auctions, spending countless hours going to auctions and leaving disgusted. You can spend a lot of time spinning your wheels. I know a guy who buys and sells equipment for a living and he buys most of the equipment at auctions, but most of the profit goes to the auctioneers and transport. The problem is that people get sucked into the excitement and confusion, and Ritchie goes out of their way to generate confusion.
I worked for an outfit that would only buy used equipment. Lots of auction stuff in the fleet. When they bought at the auction, they would always buy with the assumption that it was a wreck. They had a big shop FULL of tradesmen. The wrecks would come in to the shop and we would have at them. Most needed lots of work, some not so much. They bought three Deere 450D excavators at one auction. The idea was to have one decent runner, hopefully the second one could be a pit machine and the 3rd would be a parts machine. The first 2 were in fairly decent shape, were able to get them out working with fairly minor work. The third one that was supposed to be the parts machine, the owner of the company decided that he wanted it running too. This one took considerably more but it went out the door too. Like I said, big shop, lots of people in it. Auctions are a crap shoot. You pays your moneys, you takes your chances. If you haven't got the time, resources and skills to resurrect the dead, best plan on skipping. My $0.02.
I think the most important thing is to have someone knowledgeable inspect the equipment. The RB site here (Nisku) is one of the largest and can run the full gamut from scrap to brand new. Sometimes owners retire or a big operation sells off equipment after a large job is completed. The smart sellers will have the complete service history/other info available and it is listed in the auction catalogue to check at the office. That's a good way to bring a higher price and demonstrate how the machine was cared for. There was a company owner that decided to retire due to the poor economy. He sold all the equipment but had complete service records and receipts for all parts and repairs bought including tires for the dump trucks. A couple dump trucks were older and didn't sell for much more than the cost of repairs. If I recall one had a 3406B with odd suspension and sold for under $3000. It was Neway or Reyco, can't remember but it ran great and the engine was really clean. I thought someone might have paid more just for the engine.
Many moons ago a large site/road contractor in Flint closed, RB did the auction. 99% of the equipment was cat. FWIW, it was CJ Rodgers. I went to look at a Bobcat, long before the scheduled inspection times, just walked into the yard like I owned the place, lol... Holy crap, what an eye opener. EVERY machine got the "treatment". Blasted, painted, decaled, fluids changed, new seat and dozers got an undercarrage. 100% cosmetic, no repairs. I found the Bobcat, poor thing looked like they used it for a cushion between 2 scrapers. Ed
I always assume that if equipment is being sold at auction, there is something wrong with it, and I won’t buy It unless it’s a steal. Even if it’s a liquidation or estate sale. Unless I personally knew the owner and the history of the machine, I’d plan on spending a whole lot less than what a reputable dealer would ask for the machine. Some used equipment dealers have lots full of garbage that they picked up at auction. I recently looked at a machine at one of these used equipment dealerships. They picked it up at an RB auction, and it looked good in the pictures with the spray-paint paint job. In person it looked like junk and it had a contaminated hydraulic system full of shavings. Not something I want to end up with. Everything has been way high at the recent auctions I’ve been to lately. From little stuff to big. Some stuff has sold for more than what you could buy new with warranty.
I will take exception on the comments about inspectors. I did Iron Planet inspections for awhile and the process was pretty time consuming and what they were asking for was what needed to be known. I've done a lot of inspections for other people as well and not had too many complaints about what was received. The problem for many is there is no such thing as Xray eyes so a certain amount of risk is always there on any auction. I wouldn't say that an auction was any worse than buying used from any dealer. The auction people don't lie about what the piece is, they just don't say anything about it. I can't say the same about many dealer operations. The big truism is that an auction is not a place to go to buy your first piece.
The only difference is that a small percentage of dealers value their reputation in hopes of getting repeat business. But most are focused on the "instant gratification" of making an immediate and profitable sale. The ones I usually run into are into marketing talk. They tell me a machine or vehicle is "awesome" and "clean" none of which tells me anything. Salesman: "This unit is really clean" Me: "That doesn't matter to me, I have a pressure washer" Salesman: "It runs out good." Me: "Out of fuel or hydraulic?" Then he starts in with all the questions: Salesman: "What exactly are you hoping to find?"....."What price range are you thinking of?"...."You're not going to find a _____ at that price." Me: "I didn't contact you for questions, I'm looking for answers." Salesmen always seem to think they are bringing a lot to the table in exchange for their fee/commission. I'd rather avoid them and pocket the difference. I never liked them. They insult my intelligence so I verbally abuse them.
About 6 years ago, I had a Bidadoo rep call me about some electrical service trucks they had bought in Bartlesville. I have no idea how they got my name, but he wanted me to go there and write up an inspection report on 6 trucks and a Kubota tractor. I went up there for him and started on the tractor. It was a bit rough, and when started the engine oil pressure light stayed on. Moved to each truck and wrote up everything I could find, which on 3 of them was a pretty long list. When I turned in the report, I was asked to make estimates of repairs for each truck and the tractor which I did and turned in. He called me about a week later and said all he wanted was the trucks and tractor to start. Everything but 1 truck would start when I inspected them, the one that didn't needed batteries. I asked about the other issues and was told they were too expensive to repair. 1 truck wouldn't even move in gear, and another the hydraulic pump was spewing oil, and yet another the electrical was so hacked that nothing in the cab worked. I put batteries in the one truck so it would start and that was it. I sent them a bill for my time and they paid it. They elected to not repair anything else.
John C, I have to apologize if I was too negative about the inspectors. Anyone looking to purchase something from an auction really needs to read and understand the information that at least Iron Planet provides. It is spelled out pretty simple what is done on an inspection and what is not done. Also from what I see, at least with Iron Planet, there are two different levels of machines being offered. There are machines that have "Inspection Reports" and then there are machines with "IronClad Assurances". One would do well to read carefully what and how any of these machines have been inspected.
The Romans had a Latin phrase for it - "Caveat Emptor" - it means "buyer beware".
There are some very good salespeople too that will know which machines to consider and which to avoid. Lumping them all together as bad and deceitful is like saying all mechanics try to rip you off and do repairs that aren't necessary. Some have integrity and care about their reputation and their customers, some are greasy and you can't trust a word they say. Some people prefer to sell at auction because they get their money and don't have the hassle of trying to sell their machines privately. It's no different than selling a vehicle. Two serious buyers to a dozen tire kickers, buyers negotiating a lower price without actually going to look at the item, multiple phone calls or texts back and forth at all times of the day, saying they'll come to look at a specific time and showing up 6 hours later or not at all, being told a price is firm and then trying to get a better deal, etc., etc. With several items for sale could make you want to pull your hair out.
I agree. I just never seem to encounter those. Auctions are one way to avoid salesmen. Do you know why big box stores kicked off so successfully? People who were jaded by "may I help you?" hasslers could go and evaluate merchandise without someone talking them onto a corner.
The outfit I work for has bought several machines at Ritchie Bros with good results that I have done the inspections on. I got a copy of John C's book on inspecting used equipment and that has helped me to remember everything I need to check when 3 other people are trying to do the same thing on the same item. I recommend it. The worst piece of junk I wish I would have never recommended buying was a Cat 563 roller from an extremely reputable dealer and good salesman who I trusted.
That is much of what I was trying to say. Having a detailed in-person inspection by someone who knows what to look for is very important. Where the real problems come is someone who has never run or worked on a machine is tasked by themselves or a boss with picking out a machine. "Gee I never sat in a D4 or any other dozer, but there is this auction five hours away next week, bet it would be handy on the farm. Hey I can bid online, sounds like a neat idea!"
I went to a few site auctions for Mississippi lime quarries, most of the time were Other quarries closing shop and much of the machinery run to destruction. Initially they seemed not too concerned buying the trash piles and running them out a little more, one old fleet of Euc haul trucks was so bad I had a full legal pad of faults besides the rest of the loaders and site maintenance machines, took six days in July heat (Three full weekends) to make the report sheets, others inspected crushers and conveyors. The auction went off, they did not win as bid to my warnings, another quarry mid state did buy it all they were out of business in three years with none of the purchased machinery ever used, SOME never moved. Scrappers cleaned up off them. Been to a couple RB auctions, early on were not so bad, now its not so good. See a great deal of noted Krylon or DuPont overhauls, new rails or at least shoes on 40% rails or less than 10% support structure under those new rails, MULTIPLE wash carts blasting away removing built up sludge and debris, those machines they do not want to be seen shipped away.
That sounds like one of the auctions years ago near me at the State Fair grounds! Go by there during the couple weeks before and the steam cleaners and paint guys were fast at work!
I agree. But isn't that typical of monopolies? Early days of consolidation they are usually OK, then when they have the industry sewed up they hang it in ya.
This thread seems mostly about buyers. Is there anybody on here who has experience selling stuff there? I'm curious about what happens to the stuff that they shipped off because they did not want it in the auction. Must get sold somewhere, what happens to the seller of such a piece?
I've bought several things at RB auctions, some stuff from purple wave and iron planet also. If its a crane that I think is worth about $80,000, I don't want to give more than about $50,000 for it at a auction. That way I have the $ room to replace a engine, or a LMI computer, a new set of tires, or a rear axle assembly. I want a deal, and I want to be able to fix what's wrong with it and still have a deal. Or I'm not buying it. I actually just bid on a crane at a rb auction in texas. I had a limit I was willing to spend, and it brought about $7,000 more than I was willing to give. If I would have been able to drive down there and look at it myself, I would have bid higher if the condition justified it. But without seeing it and running it, I've got a limit. Cranes are typically a little different use than excavators/ dozers, they are usually not beat to pieces as bad, simply because of the work they do- less impact stresses. But if you bought a crane with a junk turntable bearing, you just bought scrap, because they are usually too cost prohibitive to replace. I feel competent to inspect something myself that I'm looking to buy, but I'm willing to take my lumps if I get it wrong also. I usually figure whatever I buy for a crane, I'm going to spend $10-$15,000 on it in the first year to get it to what I feel is "operational" condition. To buy something at auction thinking "I can put it right to work" is foolish. If it was still perfect, they wouldn't be selling it. I have also been able to buy some auxiliary equipment at really good prices on auction, but its stuff that is pretty specific use, that not everyone wants.
Not really a reply to Birken, but his comment reminded me of something that gave my boss a bit of a sour taste regarding and auction and it wasn't because of the auction house. To set the stage the company I worked for was a very large company with many quarries and cement plants around the world. Well one time the regional manager asked for a list of surplus equipment that they would like to put in an upcoming auction. This got a pretty good response from plants in our area and a good number or machines went to the auction, at least a couple we had that my boss felt he could part with. Well after the auction the story I got is the money the equipment brought at the auction did not go to the plants that put in the equipment, but instead went to the general budget of the company to be spent where ever they wanted it to go. I know my boss said if he had known that up front he might have held on to one old haul truck just to have a spare. It was nothing to write home about but started and would move stone when needed and passed the latest safety inspection by MSHA! Another thing was the various plants did not have a chance to grab the equipment that other plants were submitting to the auction. So even if plant A was unloading say a surplus skid-steer that was in better shape than plant B had tough luck!
Were the big wigs making the decisions planning to go into politics?
I don't know about that but, at least the top guy always seemed to have it in for our half of the state but the half of the state he came from could never seem to do wrong in his eyes. And yes at one time there were two people running the state but someone higher up who was friends with "you can guess who" decided to "consolidate" the power structure for the state.
Mississippi Lime got bought out/up by Fruin Colnon, Fred Weber, became part of the Weber quarries, was not long before much of the old scrappers were either cut up and gone or buried in some pit to be forgotten. Was a Link Belt 50 tonner rubber tire lattice boom they used out of Warren County, scary POS, some days the operator would have to boom down to reset the sticky Anti 2 Block then go back to lifts, rust bucket I do not think most of the instrumentation Cab or House worked, separate Cummins up in back and a 1160 Cat up front. Air over hydraulic brakes that would slow it to a crawl on grade but was no stopping it so NEVER EVER went in the hole without a drogue drag machine to stop it cabled up. That one was left at the quarry when Weber took over, last I saw boom was on the ground, half the tires flat and much of the easy haul loose metal all gone. Weber as Mertens never sold a used machine, saved for spares or went to a dead line to rot into the dirt until scrap hit high marks then ALL the dead line left.
All I can say is the machines we ever bought at auction or otherwise all got major restoration before we use them. Out of the 10 or so I can think of atleast 7 had rods out the blocks or other troubles. Most are train wrecks. D5c I bought a few weeks ago for example.
Yes, but you went in there with your eyes wide open and you KNEW they were train wrecks before bidding on them. You didn't buy any of them on the basis of an inspection report from the auction house saying every last one of them were "in great shape" or "runs good" did you..?
Yes as long as you assumed they were more or less just a foundation on which you could build a good solid machine and set you top bid price with that clearly in mind and had the skills to do the work there can be many good buys to be had.
Yes pretty much the line of thought we have.
They sell EVERYTHING. The standards are that it's equipment. Not that it's good equipment. Not that it's running equipment. Just that it's equipment.
My question was about these rumors of the same junky piece getting bounced from place to place. People saying RB owns it or did not sell high enough. Is any of that true?
If they have a reserve on something then it could show up at another auction.... but I have seen hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of machinery get bought at an auction and then get scrapped all because the buyer didn't realize his 'good deals' would cost more to move than they were worth...
It could be that some pieces get bought at one auction and when the buyer figures out what is wrong with it after running it a couple hours, takes it to another auction a couple weeks later.
RB makes a ton of money on seller fees and buyer fees. They have a lot of overhead associated with moving their crews all over the place. Cheaper help follows procedures and policies, more expensive help makes judgement calls, as needed to wheel and deal. It just seems to me that they would not bother buying and selling much equipment themselves when so much easier money can be made with their auction monopoly. I remember when they didn't have buyers fees. A monopoly gets greedy as they gain market share. Now they make about 20% on each little piece they sell. Ridiculous.
RB does buy some smaller items to sell like diesel pressure washers and water pumps. They buy a lot of them and get a good deal. The kicker is they have no warranty. As far as equipment it can be anything from used parts to brand new and never used. They have a 5 day auction in Nisku starting tomorrow that has some good newer equipment. I have seen the same item sell at more than one auction. I don't know if RB wanted more money for it or the winning bidder backed out. I've seen bidders at farm auctions back out of items they won. It's also possible someone bought it, couldn't move it or found a problem so just left it there and listed it for the next auction. I think RB added buyers fee's because all the smaller auctions added them. I don't think the crews move around to different auctions that much. I think each auction site has some full time employee's and hires local people to help out on auction days. A guy I went to school with who was a farmer worked at RB on auction days. RB doesn't have reserves for sellers but they do have minimums if the seller has enough machines in the auction. I think you need 6 items minimum to get a minimum guarantee. If 1 or more of the items doesn't bring what RB guesstimated I wonder if that could be why a machine shows up at a later auction??? https://www.rbauction.com/brochures/2019149.pdf
I think there is more than enough opportunity for every auction company to be nefarious...even more so in the massive machine that is RB / Iron Planet. But given the number of uniformed buyers at most RB auctions the past few years...it's hard to know what's crazy and what's crooked.
Meh........I buy most of my junk from auction.......only because I can't figure out how to afford new stuff. I bought a 2001 JD 120 excavator with about 9 million hours on it a couple years ago. That thing works everyday and all I've had to do to it is clean the fuel tank out. It cost me $13k. I knew the company that owned it and they take decent care of their junk. I picked up a 2002 F250 service truck with a 7.3 in it 11 months ago, put a battery in it and have been running it everyday since......it doesn't even look like a piece of garbage either. It a pretty respectable looking rig......I gave $1200 for it. I figure anything I buy at auction I'll need to work on so when something goes wrong I dont get too freaked out about it. Maybe if I can figure out how to get rich I'll start buying new. But I don't think I'll ever stop going to the auctions.
That is the most important thing, going in knowing it will need work and taking that into consideration when placing a bid. The people and companies that get burned the worst are those who don't read the inspection reports with an open mind. There are plenty of "disclaimers" in there to let you know what has been checked and to what extent. If anyone thinks even the best mechanic can walk up to a machine they have never seen before and in an hour or so know everything that is or might be wrong with it they are just fooling themselves. Just for insurance reasons I can't see any company letting a stranger come on their property and actually put a machine through a real series of loaded tests and I don't think the inspectors would not want to jump on a machine they have never seen before and really put it through it's paces!
I buy quite a bit at auction. I've got some tips: 1. Don't trust anything that isn't CLEARLY stated in the inspection report. 2. Don't buy emissions controlled equipment 3. Don't buy equipment with a lot of electronics (ie a 97 Mack might be a good deal, but a 2010 Mack is too high a risk) 4. Have a budget for repairs 5. Be patient. I might bid on 100 machines before I get one
This guy "auctions"....... #5 is especially important.....I've seen clapped out tilt-trailers with a nice "Taco-Bend" at the pivots sell for the same price as a new one because a couple guys got too excited.
I can set a pretty close value for the machines I see, when closed in on the high side I walked away no matter who had me go look at buying it.
I had a budget and really was looking for a JD loader, 544/44 size, pref E model or north of that, Found a 644 in Michigan, 800 some miles away, can't recall if it was iron planet or one of the big metal rags. it was $15k so called a local dealer to get an inspection, they wanted $650 for an inspection. Sheesh, on a whim called a dealership further away, $250 for an inspection. Results came back with a lot of minor defects and some more major ones, bad cener pin and no brakes, eng and trans seemed to operate normally with a bit of blowby and it had solid filled tires. Got it onsite for 3k shipping, and set it to work moving 1800 yards of material that it did handily. Dropped 10k in parts, pieces and used tires and now its a good looking (auction paint job was a plus) and good running machine. The directors wanted me to buy a Kubota 4x4 tractor and were willing to spend 40k. for 25k and a bunch of labor I've got a 50k machine that'll do several orders of magnitude more work that a small kubota. Also its really good at ripping stumps out of the ground. Oh and found out, the two inspection prices were both from the same dealer chain, high price had to drive 10 miles and the low price had to drive about 35 miles.
Someone will be getting chewed on for the low price. That price won't pay the mechanic's wags let alone the truck and fuel for the round trip. Congrats one the successful purchase.
Maybe! but it was the service department that provided the quote for a 2 hour pre purchase inspection, I dont think there were any surprises found, the inspection had most everything spelled out. Now shipping, I went through uship as I've done before, they tried to nick me for overwidth permit fees but the width was called out on the bid request, I wasn't having any of that, I did readily accept the charges for overweight as instead of the typical 34000 I figured on 38000 with an additional counterweight, well its got the double sized counterweight and had solid filled tires, I forgot to figure that, so actually it was closer to 48k pounds, so needed some extra for those fees. The driver even went a little beyond in transporting, arriving almost in the dark nearly an hour after sunset. This is for a shooting club and well the state police do a lot of shooting here so I figured we'd maybe get a pass, it wasn't an issue, I tipped the driver 100 bucks for taking the risk. Gotta be a reward right?
It sounds to me like they did a good job on the inspection. Did they give you a typed out report with photos or did you just discuss the condition of the unit on the phone?
Scan of a hand written report with a handful of photos
AIS?
Ayep, it was AIS, had to crawl through and look up the report.
The way i look at it is simple, in the current climate people rarely get rid of good running equipment, why would they? Any that is from a dealership/ trade in outfit have already picked out the good stuff to sell on again, and the rest goes to auction. So as long as you are prepared to spend probably half as much as you paid for it in repairs then you're golden.
Half!!!! you meant to type double didn't you
Have not seen many machines would even bid on at auctions, then sat back watching them go for three to four times what would consider a fair market value. Is a sucker born every minute and auctions tend to prove such.
I think it all depends on the auction. RB just had a 5 day sale here and lots of 2014 and newer low hour (under $4000) equipment. Not everyone going to auctions is looking for cheap 20 year old machines. Those that are good luck but it can happen. There was a large well established construction outfit that had an auction here recently. It wasn't through RB but the equipment was in good shape. The company was forced into receivership owing $35.9 million.
Where do these guys continue to get the money to do this year after year is what I can't understand.
I take it you too have witnessed such Birken? Last auction I went to was a number of years ago, looking for a decent Excavator for a friend that had no time to go. Walked the line two weeks to auction, got the inspections and compared, half the inspections missed or ignored obvious faults the other half were written by someone unfamiliar with machines. Day of auction, first ten sold for better than four times could see value in, could buy the same machine used less hours off lots close to half same price. Finished listed machines, would not have dropped a dime on any. More than a third went to staging for trucks to haul to port, being shipped overseas. S Am. Asia, anywhere but Here. The remainder were still on the yard as the next loads started arriving then just disappeared.
It's like the fat ladies in Vegas pumping hundreds of dollars into multiple slot machines at the same time for hours on end. Where do they get the money???
^ Borrowed mostly I'd expect. Otherwise how would a fool earn it? I had an enclosed trailer, a 2004 model I bought in 2008 for 3,800 like new. I used the **** out of it when I was building houses, remodeling, etc. Sent it to auction and it sold for $4,350! Same trailer is maybe $5-6k new currently. By the time you replace tires, brakes, fixed the crack in the roof, replace some light covers, re-pack hubs, etc - where is the value?
Auctions are a social event....the heavy equipment owners prestigious ball. You go for the socializing and possibly get a good deal out of it, but enjoy it either way. I have been lucky with most of the things I have bought. Like most everything else though patience is a virtue. There are times when certain things bring more. Another avenue I like to investigate is all the other equipment in the auction. This is harder to do with the larger auctions pooling equipment for a couple months between sales, but if sale X is mostly year old county owned dump trucks and that is what buyers are looking for, the used welder is not going to attract near as much attention. Look at the amount of online bidders during a big auction. I agree with about everything on the last three pages, especially knowing what you are looking at. There can be good deals found if you look hard enough, know when to say no, and be happy you went whether you buy or not. It does not hurt to look at stuff like pull type scrapers where you can see everything but the bearings either
As a side, I went to a couple RB bro auctions and I saw something, they had new equipment, usually skid steer attachments etc, Also things like pressure washers and the like. I'd guess all from China but here is the scoop, there's a lot of 20 of them say, and the bidding starts, now if the bidding slows down before some magical price is reached, some guy who hasn't been bidding will bid, lets say its a brush mower, this guy will keep upping the price until it hits a magical number. They call it sold and then offer up other units for the same price but won't revisit the auction. If the lot shill isn't needed, say the price gets up to 1k, the auctioneer asks how many units he'd like, and offers that price to the crowd, then the lot opens up again for more bidding where the shill nudges the price upwards and if he wins, they don't offer the price to the crowd. Rules say shill bidding isn't allowed but must have forgotten the * under house rules where the house makes the rules.
I see a lot of rigged bidding going on at auctions around here, a lot of times the auction company owns the equipment and it moves from auction to auction, then there are the on line and on the phone bidders. I like to go to auctions but very seldom buy from them, I look around and buy from individuals or construction companies that I know, been lucky so far.
I’m glad I came across this forum and this topic! I was going to be one of those suckers buying a “gently” used skid steer from a RB auction and would expect it to go right to work. I’m a newbie as far as running my own show. I’ve worked for various excavating companies but I want to get out on my own starting with a skid steer. I’ll stay away from auctions at this time.
Of all machines, a skidsteer is the last thing I'd buy at ritchie bros, especially if you don't see the machine in person ahead of time. Ritchie is a place you unload junk that you'd otherwise feel guilty about selling privately. Now some auctions can be ok for a skidsteer. Look for machines from rental fleets where they have to renew their equipment, and sell off the old. Check out the seller 'bidadoo_business and bidadoo_business on eBay. They are always auctioning off rental fleet equipment.
Ritchie Bros. sell rental fleets too. No matter where you buy it's important to thoroughly inspect any machine you're considering buying. A lot of sellers go with RB because they have the best marketing by far. Kind of like Cat compared to everyone else for product support. Saying they sell junk is not a fair statement. I've seen brand new equipment with full warranty sold at the RB here.
Thanks for the replies guys. what’s the other company on eBay? You accidentally listed one of them twice Thanks!
Thanks for your reply. I’ll keep an open mind then. I will definitely take a more experienced operator with me regardless of where I buy.
Well at least here at Chicago auction, I'm shocked at how beat and worn some of the skidsteers they sell. Never buy at ritchie site unseen.
My bad. It's bidadoo_auctions. Same seller but they have two accounts on ebay. https://www.bidadoo.com/ You can also try Ironplanet.com they do inspections on equipment and sell a lot of rental equipment. Even though they got bought by ritchie, they are ok with their inspection reports.
RB's Nisku site is one of their 2 biggest sites in N. America so they sell everything from worn out machines for parts to new machines and everything in between. I don't like that they buy quantities of new stuff to sell and offer no warranties what-so-ever on it. I think it cheapens their reputation but they likely don't care. They are not suffering in the least. Dave Ritchie wasn't bothered at all when he sold the yacht he put more than 100 million into for 46 million a couple years later. Gotta be bucks up to spend close to 60 million for a 2 year vacation on yacht. Back in the 80's saw Dave Ritchie quite a few times at the auction.
Can be real deals at a auction, some times. Most times have either shills to jack up or undereducated want it worse than sensibility that up bid just to get a piece they really do not understand value of. The shill bids are not easy to spot until the same s/n machine repeats at next sales or moves to a different yard and if watch the sales will catch onto those pretty quick as the pictures do not get renewed either. Talk about Mr. Obvious, wow.
Yea Ritchie's sells everything from new to old junk, by far the best selection of equipment anywhere. It would be a very wrong opinion to assume it's just junk at any auction. The other advantage is the vast amount of pictures they provide of equipment, again better then everyone else. They use to be better many years ago, but prices have gotten so high it's better to buy equipment and trucks privately in most cases. There is few year old pieces getting more then new in so many cases, it never stops amazing me how many stupid buyers there are. I've also noticed the odd bidding differences. I know Ritchie's buys some equipment or offers guarantees so I know they either bid up some stuff or buy it if they don't get what they want. Also noticed how one piece they will spend a ton of time on, the next could be almost identical and it doesn't get near the time. I absolutely hate Ritchie's though and avoid them as much as I can. Use to be great to deal with, but now they've got a bad attitude and it's like their doing you a favor letting you buy stuff there. Financing use to be great but got terrible also.
I wouldn't buy a toaster at an auction much less a piece of heavy equipment. I just had a customer here get jacked locally on a JD 332 skid loader. The engine barely ran when they bought and loaded it. They got it back to their place and cranked on the engine trying to start it until the fried the starter motor. When I arrived on the scene, there was little fuel pressure and the governor control screw in the front cover had been screwed with (had no locknut and had been run out as far as it would go : JD 5030 engine no less). After some discussion the customer decided to ok me opening up the top of the engine. I removed the valve cover and spun her over......4 & 5 pushing compression back into the intake manifold. So I pulled the head. It was pretty obvious it was a flood machine, rusted intake ports, rusted cylinder walls, etc. It was going to cost too much to pull this engine for an overhaul and do the fuel component updates...............so the customer had me put the engine back together like it was. They just picked it up last week so they could push it over the auction block again just to get rid of it. They told me they paid $24K for it. I doubt it brings $10K now.
That is unfortunate but the thing so many people forget is buyer beware with auctions, you gotta inspect and run anything before you buy. I've bought stuff I haven't looked over as much as I should and made out great and other times got bent over. I bought a trailer at Ritchies few years ago for $30k, inspection only a few months old. When I got it inspected a few months later and virtually no use, $7k bill for it, the previous inspection was a complete lie about everything, brakes, bearings, kingpin everything shot. Ended up selling it after a little over a year, brought $20k at Ritchies. Lost about $20k on it. I learned a harsh lesson, inspections on anything mean absolutely NOTHING. You gotta look over things very well, or have someone you trust do it. Yea you'll miss little things still, but considering it's an auction the only way I buy is if i'm getting a better deal then buying elsewhere. I've bought tons of equipment and trucks at auctions and only really got burnt that once.
Walked auction lots looking at specific machines for people, have walked away from more than gained any interest in them.
My mini ex which was a great buy was from a big company who gets rid of machines at a certain age and had 2 exact same machines, and has been fantastic. CTL was a rental same deal multiples of same age/hours, it's had a few issues but nothing too bad and happy enough with what I paid. If you don't know what to look for there is lots of worn out junk that still gets a decent dollar. Prices are so odd though. My 25 ton tag I paid $20k for, great deal knew it needed work dropped about $7k into it. Last auction, exact same trailer just in better shape, $46k! And I bought mine 3 years ago and with the work I put into it it's easily as good if not a better trailer then the one for $46k. I don't know exact price but I am positive they are only low 40's new.
I watched an auction the other day that was onsite and online at the same time. How about US$50 000 for a D6C direct drive 71A which is equivalent to a 74A. I did not think there was anything special about it. It looked in good condition for it's vintage, which would be early 1960's.
I'm reading these horror storys sitting here thinking I'd love to get my paws on these junks to fix them up use a bit then do it all over again bit thats my hobby I guess. Out of the 15 to 20 machines I've owned so far only about 3 drove in to the shop under there own power. I guess my point is you got to buy at these sales with the intentions of rebuilding it from one end to the other.
I don't know what it's like now with the Covid but Ritchie Bros. does give you ample time before the sale to inspect and run machines. They'll usually tell you who the seller is too. Better machines will have the service records. You used to have to have at least 5 machines in the sale to get a guaranteed minimum. If someone's looking at an older machine there isn't much difference where you buy it. You pays your money, you takes your chances. Buying private doesn't automatically make the seller more honest or the machine in better condition.
With Covid-19 it's limited inspections and online auctioning only right now at Ritchie Bros.. I'm looking for drop deck trailers about to go for sale in Denver I "might" bid on but from these stories I MIGHT want to avoid it unless I towed it to a garage within 50 miles afterwards to fix it myself. Seen a stack of them outside Kansas City MO that looked tasty for a drop deck trailer that will fit my needs, but on verge of outside my price range of $9500 @ same time might have to suck it up and just go that route. Buying private means you got more time to inspect something and if you are good enough you can test out your BS meter if you stick around long enough asking questions of different topics, Ones place might tell a story of the owner too and how said equipment is taken care of.
I thought RB was allowing inspections but you have to make an appointment. That would be a way to limit the amount of people.
Last time I just walked right in at Chicago. Not many people were there. This was maybe 4 days before auction. Don't dare bid unless you see the item in person first.
Wait, there is a book?
https://www.amazon.com/~/e/B0742Q36JL
My auction experience summed up in one story...4x4 backhoe arrives. I notice one front brake not working. I pull off the line. There perched on the little JIC fitting is a ball bearing. I take out the bearing and hook up the line. Step on the brake and watch oil pour out of the hub.
Thanks, ordered one up this morning
RB has it good now, back to in person but all stuff sold stationary, more $$ for them, not to mention the increases in fees and commission. I'd really like to know how to get them to lose my number/email though. Not 2 months ago I gave them a fairly rude reply telling them to lose my information and today again I get a call from them. Every single time there is a auction here I get a bunch of calls and emails, i've told them numerous times I will never finance anything through them again and likely never buy anything because of how they do things, and even if I did buy anything i'd pay cash for it. Funny how when you give them your business they act like they don't want it, stop doing business with them and they can't leave you alone.
What are they asking for on commissions now days?
We just purchased a 330DL from Rb ft worth last sale. Got it for 60. After tax and buyers premium 69!!
Ft Worth TX sales tax is 8.25% so tax was $ 4,950 This correct ?
I Tax1 $5,850. Then they turned around and taxed the buyers premium
Did they charge a premium on the tax as well? Might as well if everybody's doing it.
Sounds like they added the tax and then added the commission of about 6% on top. Total cost to both parties looks like about 12% or about $7,800 dollars. Pretty good living for about four minutes of an on line sale.
UGH. Auctions pppffffftttt
8.25% sales tax??
I was training a new guy on bulk fuel delivery. Write out the ticket and showed him how to compute sales tax. On a couple hundred dollar sale a couple tens of dollars of tax. He really had no idea how much the government collected until he started having to calculate and add it in himself.
Few years ago when I sold through them selling commission was 11% plus the little BS fees 25% on items under $2k, I believe it's 13% now. The other thing that is BS is when you buy an item you pay them the tax. When you sell they don't pay you the tax, you wait until year end and will get it back from the government.
Don't complain. In the two locations I spend most of my time sales tax is 19% and 20% respectively..........
I should be happy our sales tax is only 5%, but then again our other taxes are stupidly high so it balances out. The real kick in the balls is paying tax on the carbon tax. Tax on a tax. Why don't they just call it what it is "The hell you going to do about it tax?".
Last auction machine I had to work on knocked like it was serving a warrant. I think the customer bought it online, no inspection.
People that buy at an auction site unseen deserve this.
I am convinced there is a sucker born every minute. As with ANY sale, the item is being sold for a REASON. That is the very first line item....to figure out why. Sometimes it is going out of business, which usually leads to decent equipment, but no guarantee. What shocks me is what people are willing to pay at auction! Like, if you are going to pay retail, why not go find a private sale where you can truly inspect and test? But the main issue is pretty much ALL the companies in my area will ONLY auction their equipment. There is no private option. I will say I got extremely lucky with my last excavator purchase. I was actually calling locals looking for trucking, and mentioned to a guy that I was looking for a hoe. A few things brought her home to me. The guy was a straight shooter and told me about the issues. Mostly being electrical, which I specialize in. He had the machine literally on the lowboy headed to a job and stopped by on the way. A fubar machine is not likely to be taken to a job. As well, the price was FAIR!!!! Probably the #1 thing I look for with any machine is hackjobs! If I see wire nuts, crimp connectors, panels removed, my interest goes way down! In the case with my excavator, she indeed had issues that not even the dealer could fix, and I have record of it! BUT, nothing was hacked, so it made my job an easy 2hr repair! Look for factory wiring! If owners are not interested in quality repairs, they probably also ignored little things like oil changes and filters.
A lot of companies simply don't want to deal with trying to sell privately and the auction brings a good return. People with the notion that because it's at an auction is junk have never spent any real time seeing the equipment at them, there is everything from pristine to complete junk. The biggest thing is you must inspect before buying and except for really rare cases expect it's going to need work. A lot of auction prices have crept up to above private sale and it's stupid I agree. My mini hoe and CTL both auction purchases and have been good. Both had a few issues but nothing major but I got good prices on them. The mini ex was a large company who had a few of exactly the same and just turning over equipment, the CTL was a rental. Mini ex came with a pretty good log of work that had been done to it. The only real issue it had when I got it was electrical, cost about $3500 to fix at dealer. The CTL had 1 broken wire and needed a solenoid for aux hydraulics other then that has been great. I would tend to avoid rentals, but it's been fine. My big hoe I was at the auction and the prices were stupid one came up privately and I stole it, easily would have paid $15k more at auction. Guy was insanely straightforward about it and the machine has been great, he actually offered to send his mechanic to fix a really minor issue I had with it that was suppose to be fixed before I bought.
Local NC County wants an increase to 7.5 % With the inflation going on, they're collecting more. I tend to vote against any tax increases. Gov't is like a fungus. As long as there's food (money) the organism will grow. The only limitation is to starve the organism to make it efficient and/or shrink it.
Well Said man, then here's my little advise There are a few things to keep in mind when buying used equipment: - Make sure to research the seller and check their rating/reviews. - Inspect the equipment before purchasing. Look for any damage or signs of wear and tear. - Get a warranty or return policy in writing, just in case there are any issues with the equipment after purchase. - Compare prices between different sellers before making a purchase.
Buddy just learned the ultimate lesson in auction equipment, bought a JD CTL few months ago at Ritchie's with over 6000 hours and only looked at pictures and video, and the engine just blew, didn't put 10 hours on it. Already overpaid for the thing, now going to be insanely underwater on it. The part I don't get is, all he is using it for is building a shop and planned to sell it within a year, just rent one and maybe spend a few grand, it's not worth owning to put 50-75 hours on it in a year. Now he's probably going to lose $25k on it maybe more. He's at least lucky because his brother is a HD mechanic and should be capable of fixing it and will save there at least.
He could have went and tried it out or at least had his brother inspect it for him. The only thing he might look into is if the seller (owner) new there was a major problem and somehow got it to run long enough to put in the auction and never disclosed that info. It would be an extreme long shot though. I only mention this because there was an XMT 304 welder sold at an RB auction that had a burnt out board and was missing pieces inside when the buyer looked into why it wouldn't work. Not something you can try out at the auction and even if they let you take the cover off, who would think of that on a electric welder. RB refunded his money and I think still charged the seller or there was some kind of consequences for selling a completely dead welder that wasn't worth repairing. Back to the CTL, do you know why the engine blew? Could it have been your buddies fault for not checking the oil or something along those lines?
I don't get it at all, I think he thought you couldn't go and inspect onsite? He asked me a few questions about them as I have similar machine and then told me he just bought one. Lost compression in a cylinder, and low in another. I wouldn't be surprised if seller knew. I wouldn't hold my breath on Ritchie's doing anything, but it doesn't hurt to ask for sure.
Maybe it doesn't need a full on rebuild? Maybe just pistons and rings and honing. RB in Nisku lets you inspect for at least a week before the sale. Some guys are even checking things out on the day of the sale. No real excuse as the auction site is only 15-20 minutes from Edmonton, not way off in the middle of nowhere.
Ritchie is where people unload worn out equipment. And skidsteers are by far the most beat up equipment I see there. I would never buy one without seeing it. And even if I saw it, highly unlikely.
When I was previewing auctions all the time, I used to see dealer rental iron there. It was usually lower hour units but just a beat up.
I remember at an auction one time someone bought an excavator, and the engine blew as the auction driver was on his way to park it. I would think in a situation like that the auction place would have to refund the money or offer a much reduced price?
I've had good luck with auctions, haven't bought too much i have maybe spent only $2000 total. Like everything in life you make your money when you buy, so you have to be patient and there will be another one to come along, similar to buying a used car. My best score was the 1992 Cummins n14 I got for $500 because all the junk that came with it, the better junk I was able to sell for $1100, and now the N14 is in my rig making me money.
I'm not sure how it would work, but any buyer who isn't a fool would walk away or only take it at a very big reduction. I know until it sells it's there at sellers risk so something like that would be on the seller. I can't remember though if technically it's still at sellers risk until buyer pays, not when it sells?
I totally disagree, you cannot blanket everything like that. There is plenty of brand new iron at Ritchie's. Yes there is plenty of worn out junk, but there is absolutely everything there. My mini hoe, CTL and 25 ton tag came from there also bought plenty of other stuff trucks and trailers there I no longer have. A highway tractor I took for yearly inspection right from Ritchie's cost me under $1k to pass, truck was a lease return and in great shape. I've had 1 nightmare but i've had far more really good buys that were taken care of. The only really bad buy from there was a trailer, which partly was not Ritchie's fault but a shady shop forging an inspection. Plenty of companies sell equipment at a certain age no matter what and sell there because it's a guaranteed sale and Ritchies brings big dollars, a big reason why I haven't bought there in awhile is because of how much higher things go then private sales. There is also tons of companies who sell lease returns there 3-5 year old trucks that many are in great shape. There is bankruptcies, retirements and plenty of other cases where it's a complete dispersal so it's not just problem equipment they are sending, it's absolutely everything. I am not a fan of Ritchie's at all and how they operate, but to say everything they sell is junk is not correct.
I've only been to one good auction in my life. It was when my good friends dad sold all his equipment. It went super dirt cheap. Every auction there after everyone bids everything out of site.
I stopped going to auctions as a buyer, became a watcher as could not attain anything worthy of the cash was offering. As far as HE was still looking as had so many issues on the Fat Allis, saw a tractor to replace it and made a few bids where lost, only to see that exact same machine s/n repeat at auction a few weeks later as I tend to write notes and keep them for research against specs on additional choices. Not that any of the houses would be scamming mind you, HOWEVER, the availability of a machine at a auction that then moves from site to site after indicated as ‘sold’ seems really like a game rather than a true ‘sale’. I defer to anyone that has done business with the available auction houses and achieved what were after for a reasonable price.
We have a local auction house for ag equipment here, the house has set themselves as appraisers for bottom line bids acceptance and have stopped sales that were considered “Too Low for the Value” where I lost a MFWD Deere was bidding on when my bid was the final, that comment above was how it is not mine. Was sent to a dealer directly afterwards and AFAIK is still for sale some 4 years later at near 1/2 higher than my high bid, price has not ever decreased but actually increased with time and still needs the work done I saw it needed then. In speaking to member of owners family of the sale, they were paid a half of my bid as a sales retainer and explained would receive more as sold, still waiting. They cannot get it back even if pay the money back by contract. I refuse to attend this service’s sales any further. Buddy of mine caught a shill game played twice before at another yard and he also will no longer attend auctions. Seems they have some kind of game running with dealers here to keep pricing inflated. His own attempted buy was a 4020 Deere he could use as a odd job tractor, has a twin to it paid $6700 in 2001 for and bid to $8500 for this sale unit, bid on same tractor where a similar looking person bought it at a second sale time, both at $11,000 as others continued to raise bid. He stated saw it at back lot same yard four months later then moved to a dealer yard, asking $10,800.
I had a good experience, I think it was an RB or similar auction. Was looking for a 344/444 size deere wheel loader, had checked out a few locally when a 644E popped up, a bit far away but it had the rattle can rebuild. Called one JD dealer right near Yipsilanti to go look, $650 fee for pre purchase inspection, that seemed nuts, could fly out and back cheaper. Called another dealer about half an hour away, $350 for inspection and report much better. Talked to the mobile tech and he says he does the PPI for the other dealer anyway, interesting. Report came back, engine kind of tired, trans good, solid tires, centerpin clapped the F out, wobbly bits in the rear with extra wobble, no brakes at all, not even a whiff. Visual inspection of fluids after a good run didn't show any contamination or abnormalities. $15k and 3k for shipping and it arrived. Now where its at, its going to get maybe 50-150 hours a year operation time, sort of a retirement home for equipment. I just asked for an annual improvement budget but most of the labor we could do in house. It worked 60 hours its first week after arrival moving material and had some serious power (compared to a Kubota 7040 tractor) Finished off a handful of project the first month then we spent $3300, remove solid tires, sandblast rims, fix rust pitting on those, paint, obtain good used tires locally, order o-rings, stems, bucket of murphys and everything for the lower center pin. Installed the tires ourselves, got lucky using a small air compressor. Got a great price from a mobile welder to rehab the lower pin, we supplied pin, bushings and seals. We did the tractor splitting in house, that was fun!! Started in 2016 and have spent about 15-20k so far, rebuilt pilot/brake hydraulic pump, accumulators, axles & brakes, axle teeter pivot, parking brake linings, engine, hydraulic hoses, new/used take off tires, handful of hoses, batteries, cleaned radiator and oil cooler. Its been a fantastic machine, if we had to pay labor on the repairs, likely might have been cheaper to get something newer but this fit in the budget and has always run. Had a great time doing the engine build and as Warren (midwest truck and tractor) says, reman engines are junk, this remanned engine that it came with had the cam gear only half way on the cam.
Ouch. Outfit I use is $180/hr, 1 hr min.
I bought a RGN lowboy at the old RB location on I10 east in Houston years ago. Very, very cheap actually. Went to pay for it and was told they didn’t have a title for it. I said no problem I would do the registration. They told me no, the sale was invalid. The trailer sold 3 weeks later at RB in Ok City for the right money. You can’t beat them at their own game.