I am planning to go to the Richie Bros auction Dec4,08 in Vancouver. I am looking for an excavator in the mid size range with blade and thumb. Anyone have any good advice for an auction rookie. What would you say would be the most important things to look for on a machine before bidding. Also what are your opinions on swing booms? Good to have or avoid? Thanks, Tim
I've bought a few machines at auctions, largely because the price might be better than from a dealer. But one downside is that you can't properly check out the machines. You won't be able to do an oil analysis, for example. And you won't be able to work the machine under real working conditions. If you don't know anything about heavy equipment, you might want to take someone with you who is knowledgable. If you can look at the machines a day or two before the auction and narrow it down to a few that interest you, then talk to one of the Ritchie Bros reps and ask for more info on the machines. From my experience, they will tell you the name and phone no. of the former owners. Give them a call and ask about the machine. A lot of these machines come from larger companies that are turning over their equipment or downsizing. The owners or maintenance guys often are surprisingly frank about the condition of the equipment. Usually the news is good on the machines from larger fleets. Sometimes RB also has a copy of maintenance records, so ask if they have that for the machines. When looking at a machine at an auction, you can check some things properly and others not so well. If you know what to look for, it is easy to visually check important and expensive things like the undercarriage, the boom, stick, bucket, and pins and bushings. It's also easy to check all the in cab functions, including the electrical items and gauges. Most of these machines are steam washed or painted before going to the auction, so it's difficult to know about leaks, unless they are real bad. Run the machine for as long as possible to get it to operating temperature and look for leaks from the engine and hydraulic systems. Listen for unusual noises from the hydraulic pump and engine. Check for blowby when the engine is running. And pull all the dipsticks and look at the oils for unusual sights or smells. And have a look in the radiator, looking for oil. Since RB doesn't want you digging up their yard and killing other auction goers wandering by, you likely won't be able to work the machine. So it really is difficult to know about the operating condition unless something is really badly wrong. But you can at least check if it moves forwards and backwards in each gear. Because of the close quarters at RB sales and the risk of hitting other persons or machines, you likely won't be able to swing the machine around. Don't ask how I know, but testing machines at auctions can be very dangerous. Power lines (overhead and underground) are only some of the hazards to watch for. Any idiot can get on a machine at an auction and risk his life and those of anyone within reach. You really won't know what you bought until you have a chance to work the machine hard for a few hours. That's when problems that you could not see before may show up, if there are any.
My experience with RB is limited to only the Fort Worth, TX site. At this site you can preview equipment anytime before auction. I've been there 2-3 weeks before auction time to "play" with the equipment and take oil samples. You can also check the serial# (have the local dealer run it), or even have someone from the dealer come look at the machine for you. I would check with the Vancouver branch to see if that's possible at their site. I would also take a look at Ironplanet. They do equipment evaluations for their auctions. Look at some of the evaluations for excavators and it'll give you an idea of an organized way to look at a piece of equipment.
They are really sticky about testing machines before the auction.You have to leave your drivers licence to get the key.A couple of years ago a guy jumped on a D6 cat and started driving it across the patella bridge.Only in surrey ointhead I was going to try to get to that auction,if want a second opinion on a machine pm me and i could give ya my cell.
Buy a new one . RB have heaps of Korean/Chinese machines for cheap , Doosan , Liugong , WCM etc . You can rest easy when it's new , you do'nt need to worry if a used machine is a dud or if it has ever been greased etc . As for swing booms , i will never buy one again . Yes they are handy for digging against a wall etc . But because they are mounted so far forward on the machine they are very tippy as opposed too a fixed boom that is mounted in the center of the machine . Fixed booms use the counterweight and also the front half of the track frame for stability . Swing booms also use the counterweight but because of the purchase the boom has over the machine it can easily overcome the balast .
This is all true. However,the later machines (mine included) have a blade option. This is used for leverage while digging - with it, the machine is unbeatable - I wouldn't trade mine for anything. The GC's that I work for now all request it - and they are NOT into machines like we are on this site, they couldn't care less. They just see production. The only real downside now is that is does take an hour to properly grease a large swingboom/blade machine WITH an electric gun...and 3 tubes of grease.
Auction Tips For a first timer I wouldn't buy anything that has been painted on or has over 5000 hours. Be leary if it has Aux Hydraulics, It could have been on a hammer, this is BAD. Rental machines are not all there cracked up to be either. Most big contractors will rent one when they need to run a hammer. You should really consider buying a machine from an individual, by the time you figure commision and buyers fees there is a big difference in what your paying and the seller is getting. Words can't describe how handy a Hydraulic Thumb is. I have one on my Case CX 160 and it is the Dope. I had a Manual Thumb on my Case CX 210 and there is no comparison. If you have any questions just ask, there's a lot of smart people on here.
Thanks for the advice guys. for a first time buyer it is a little intimidating alright. I appreciate the tip about the aux hydraulics for a hammer. I am hoping to find a good deal on a 120 size machine with thumb and blade. How about this one? 99 Komatsu PC128 blade , 2 buckets, thumb. 3200 hours for $54,900. This is from a Heavy Equipment dealer. There are a couple like that in the auction as well as a Hitachi EX120-2. I'm 250 miles away so I haven't seen them yet. Do you think that paying more from a dealer would be better than taking a chance at the auction? Given the poor economy the prices at the auction might be cheap. Thanks for you help. Tim
This is the exact machine I was talking about - I have exactly the same one with bolt-on rubber shoes and thumb. You can't even believe the work you can do with that thing. I think you can do better than that price in this economoy, however.... Edit - I just saw that most of the rubber shoes are missing. This is probably not a 3200 hour machine. Those shoes are like mine - bolt on over the triple grousers, and they are very tough. Here is the best price on them - $43 each, and yes, they are excellent quality: www.mmmachine.com
A Hitachi ex120-2 is going to be a GREY MARKET machine. That is what I have and love it. Only downfall is the USA dealer wont support it, cant find a shop manual, good luck
Stay away from Chinese no matter what. They are junk, support is terrible, on and on and on. My advise if you want a used machine is to go to a reputable dealer, take along a good mechanic to go over the machine and take oil samples out of the engine, hydraulics and final drives. You will pay more than at an auction, but "you gets what you pays for." What do you call midsize? If you are in the 40,000 pound and can find a good Cat 215 D you will do well. Oh ya, lots of the off shore are "grey machines" which no one will support for service, parts or anything else.
I would buy at an auction as quickly as I would buy from the dealer that has the Komatsu or most any like them. They have a nasty habit of painting up junk to make it look pretty but when you get behind the pretty it can be pretty ugly. Not to say they're all like that but "Be Careful." If you are unfamiliar with equipment you need to take a mechanic along either way. As far as an EX 120-2 goes, any Deere or Hitachi dealer worth any thing should be willing to work on them, whether or not they are "grey market." There's not that much difference between the 120-2 and the -3 and you can still get service manuals for the -3 from Deere. I don't remember the differences other than the control valve and the electronics are slightly different. I've worked on more -2s than -3s and never have had a -2 manual.
The 120-2 and -3 are also the same as the Deere 490E other than the engine. 490E serial number 24999 and below are the same as the 120-2 and 25000 and up are a -3. Also,Deere manuals are often easier to use than Hitachi. I think the older Hitachi manuals were written in Japanese and translated into English by someone who did not have good command of the english language.
Thanks for the info about the Hitachi EX120-2. There is a 1997 HITACHI EX 120-5 , 3900 hrs, hydraulic thumb, Asking $50,000 in the Heavy Equipment Trader. I am hoping to get into one a little cheaper but its not worth it if the model is not supported by parts and service.
Are these prices in canadian money? if not then they sound realy high
Yes, Canadian dollars. They do sound really high. That is why I was thinking of the auction. Until July we were close to par with the US dollar. Now our dollar is at 82 cents?? It doesn't make sense to buy something cheap if its not the right machine.
I just bought a hitachi 120-2 a few months ago from a local excavation contractor. It is in very good condition it has 4500 hrs, lots of new parts, like new under caraige, new ring on the swing gear and a newer bucket. I paid $30,000 US I dont think I got a steal, but I think I paid what it was worth. the reason I bought it from a local person is I can trust him and he will answer all of my questions about it and be honest. This is my first Excavator and I think I made a good move for a first time machine. I have put about 60 hrs on it in the last few weeks and I love it!!!! good luck and dont stray away from gray market machines, you will do fine with service.
The machine in your picture has the only type of "offset" boom i would use . The main arm is still mounted in the center of the machine , unlike a swing boom that is mounted on the front . And also Korean/chinese excavators can come with a blade too .
Price Comparisons If your looking for a few price comparisions I have a couple of 2005 excavators priced on my web site. This will give you a few more prices to compare to. If you don't mind me asking why do you want a blade? Are you trying to get away from a Dozer?
I figured it would add stability and make for a more versatile machine. I plan on using it at home on my driveway, doing landscaping and anything else that may come up. Its hard to get into the buisiness without experience so I plan on getting hours with my own machine. This will be my first machine to own.
Around here buying from a dealer is a crap shoot also. I have seen every single one of the local dealers at the same actions i go to. Their a bit more prudent about their purchases but they will still buy things that are cheep and they know they can markup and sell.
Dualie, I agree about the dealers. Here in western Canada, a lot of the equipment sold at RB auctions shows up on dealer lots. I've googled the serial number of a few pieces of equipment that I was interested in and RB auction info came up. One problem is that the dealers drive the prices up at the auctions. Then when they try to resell the equipment, they put the price up so high that only someone who needs equipment right now will pay that price. I'm looking for a loader and just checked machinerytrader.com. The site has 8,447 loaders listed for sale. Most are on dealer lots, and they don't seem to be moving. If this recession deepens much more, the dealers might have to drop their prices to realistic levels or resell the stuff at the next Ritchie Bros sale. Buying at auction or at a dealer is a crap shoot. My neighbor bought a Case loader from a dealer. It lasted twenty minutes before the charge pump exploded.
Canadian Dollar is way down again. About $0.79 US to the Canadian now.
Excavator prices are soft right now.Ritches in Vancouver is higher for prices than the states.Usually about %15-%20 than washington.But with the dollar being down ,i think it would be fairly close now.Every time i go there is alot of grey market machines there.There is a few guys that import them and sell them at the auction.
The point i wanted to make about the type of "offset" boom in your photo (but forgot) is that no matter what position it is in , the bucket stays parallel too the machine . As opposed to a swing boom that travels in an arc . I had one on a 3.5 ton Kobelco , it was awsome . Also regarding Chinese/Korean excavators . Unless you can buy a 1000hr generic machine for the same price , i believe they are better value than an older painted up generic machine with unknown history .
RB auctions I think when you go to a RB Auction you are going to one of the HIGHEST Auctions in the world. You can do A LOT better using a smaller local auction company that doesn't have online bidding. You can talk about selection but you only want one GOOD excavator so it really don't matter if the sale has 3 or 300 excavators there.
I went back to the local dealer today. They bring in most of their excavators direct from Japan. Here is a couple of their "deals" they sent me a while ago. We have a couple three choices right now,if you want dozer bade; - 2002 Komatsu PC128UU-2 20" pad , dozer, zero swing ,a/c ,3400hr 1 dig Price...... $ 44,900.00 add attachments; - quick change saddle...................................................$1800.00 - convert dig bucket q/c ................................................$ 1300.00 -Hydr thumb installed....................................................$11,500.00 ============ $ 59,500.00 2006 Komatsu PC138US-2E1 20" pad a/c , 1799hrs 1 dig aux hydr Price.......... $ 59,900.00 add attachments - q/c saddle .........................................................................1800.00 -convert dig bucket ...............................................................1300.00 hydr thumb installed [has aux hydr ].......................................7500.00 ============= $ 70,500.00 Two months later, the 2002 Komatsu is still there and same price. I appreciate the input from you guys.
The Blade Have you thought about losing the blade? I know they are handy for moving stumps and large rocks but you really can't finish much with them.
It seems that if I want a thumb and a blade it will limit my choices a lot. There is only one at the auction in the 120 size range that fits the bill. I could lose the blade but it must have a thumb. $11,500 for a thumb? Seems like a lot.
It costs money to play A manual thumb is better that nothing but you really want a hydraulic that mounts to the bucket or quick connect. This way your thumb will match up with your bucket no matter where your stick or boom is. I'll get some pictures tommorrow on my web site so you can see what I'm talking about.
Hydraulic Thumb I got a couple of pictures on my web site of my Hydraulic Thumb. It is mounted with the bucket this would also work with a quick connect but you would need a longer thumb. http://www.rodneyobrien.com/AP thumb.htm
i brought one from rb in edmonton last year a ex 60 urg with blade and thumb.great machine works well but already had some minor repair to do.leaking rotory valve and travel motor. really tough to get support for it nobody wants to help.luckly i work for deere in edmonton and the 70 and 70d are really close to the ex60urg that i bought. hope this helps.
Checked out your pictures Rodney. Looks good. Here is the ex120-2 I will check out at the auction.
Looks Good You will like the thumb, with it mounted like that it will always match up with the bucket. Have you written down the SN and took it to the dealer? They can look it up and tell you a little about the machine.
tootall, that looks like the Port Mann Bridge in the background. I did not realize that the RB auction site was right on the river. All that rain in your pictures brings back memories of Van. By the way, do you know anything about Morookas? The RB sale there has a number of them listed. I'm wondering what condition they are in - if there are some to bid on and others to avoid.
Nice looking machine, they usually have a couple of those around the Vancouver auction. I like the blade option on a 120 size machine, it comes in handy. Just a word of warning though, some folks get too caught up in the moment at these autions. I was behind a fellow who ended up paying $38K for an PC75, who then turned around and asked if I thought that was a good deal! (I'd stopped bidding at $26K on that one!) Just be aware of that if you have one particular machine your looking for. We picked up a Hitachi EX55UR-3 from that auction, and other than having no dealer support, it's been a big help on our property. We did have a problem with the offset boom cracking at a weak point (and old repair may have been covered up with paint), which then bent the stick cylinder. A hydraulic repair shop was able to build a new rod and repair the cylinder, parts were not an issue for them to order. I might stop by this auction and pick up a generator and a thumb if they're cheap enough. The market here seems to be finally slowing down, so there should be some good deals.
I went to an RB auction in Surrey BC in June of 07, lots of "grey market" machines there imported from the pacific rim, tiny little mini excavators and lots of pyramid tracked dozers, all the original japanese or chinese stickers were still on there, dozers were mostly Komatsu, Hitachi (dont see many Hitachi dozers out here that's for sure) there was a Cat there from Asia as well. kinda neat seeing the word "caterpillar" writen in some other language on the back of a dozer, who knows it could have said anything, there's no way I'd know. For excavators I think every hoe there had a thumb on it, lots of Komatsus... lots of machines that had the living poop beat out of them, they looked like they were operated by drunk 12 year old kids from an indian reserve, windows smashed, seats ripped to shreds, doors smashed in, no paint on the couterweight of course. You could tell they were used in some nasty grubbing situations.
120 size excavator I picked up a PC-75 and it is a bit too small for what I push it to do. Those dents in the front are from 5,000 lbs slipping out from the thumb. A 12-15 tonne machine is a great general purpose size machine. Typically what does a 12 tonne decent machine go for these days?
I will find out on Thursday. I see a lot of Ex12o-2 in the US listed for $30,000. There is a 1996 Ex120-5 with thumb, blade and 3900 hours for $50,000 in B.C. There is a lot of room between those two numbers.
Excavator Prices A friend of mine has a 2005 Case CX 135 with 400 hours and a bunch of attachments and he is asking $74,500.00
12-15 Tonne My excavator is being used to work our property. If I were rich the CASE/Hitachi machine is nice. Not a bad price vs. what a new one goes for. Why is he dumping it with 400 hrs?
Well, I was just at the RB auction in Surrey this afternoon and bought a Komatsu PC50U, grey market, painted, lousy tracks, good hoses etc, good interior, 3400 hrs for $8000 CDN. I have researched minis for over a year and I still was off balance bidding on this thing. Had a hoe apoerator with me. The market price, in decent shape, probably averages $14-16 thousand. We'll see if it is any good when I get new tracks on it and crank it up for real. The EX 120-2 that tootall has in post 33 went for, according to my notes, $32,000 CDN. Generally the prices for the big boys were veeeery low and the midis reasonable. Thumbs were a significant bonus. But I have a problem. Where do I get tracks for this machine and a manual? Anybody know?
Case CX 135 All he used the Case for was unloading washing machines and tin. He bought a new AL-JON Metal Baler and it has a crane mounted on it so he doesn't need the Case anymore. The car baler cost almost a Half Million though so I guess it needed to have a loader on it . When you figure the Case has a new ESCO Bucket, Geith Hyd Quick Connect and a Geith Demolition Grapple it's close to half price for a 400 hour machine. If I can sell my CX 160 I'm going to buy it.:beatsme
What About Too Tall What about it Too Tall, did you get your excavator?
Congrats on the new toy! As far as parts and manuals, you'll need to search around a bit. I recall that "tractorhill supply" sells quite a few grey komatsus, and you may have some luck with a company called "surfwood" (I think). Are they rubber tracks, or steel with the rubber inserts? Our machine came with the rubber inserts (in pretty good shape), but we took them off for some extra grip in the clay. With the insert pads on though, you could move around on the grass without leaving much of a mark.
I came away empty handed. the EX120 I was interested seemed to have some hydraulic issues. qkoop was there also and gave me some very good tips. Everything had been painted, including the inside of the cab. The foot pedals were new. The first time I looked at it, it had Chinese or some foreign language newspapers on the floor. qkoop thought the hours were very suspect. I did bid on a 2003 New holland 160 but dropped out at $35000. It was a bit big for me so I didn't pursue it too hard. It was a learning experience and nice to meet qkoop.
Auction Experience If you learned something Timmy you didn't come away empty handed. It sounds like you might have made a friend also, That's a pretty big deal where I'm from.
Thanks Kicker 92 for the info on manuals and tracks. Turns out that the Komatsu head office for Canada is in the Vancouver area and I called them up and asked if they have any objections to working on a grey market Komatsu PC50uu-2. "No problem" they said. So it is going in today for tracks and a good servicing. They even have manuals for equivalent machines that they will download for me. I know I will pay dearly for this service but it should be done right AND they reluctantly agreed to allow me to observe for educational purposes. They explained that grey market machines are very similar to N. Am models but there can be significant differences in the electrical layout and some fittings. Their parts guys have a challenge sometimes. So I'm all set with my auction buy.