Heh guys, I have a ws500 articulated loader with what appears to be an original factory backhoe. It has what I would describe as a manual side shift. There are two hydraulic rams that lock to the frame by pressure only. There is no hydraulic side shift I have to pull myself across with the hoe. These rams only have one hard pipe each so I can only assume they release through pressure release. Anyway, for the life of me I can't get them to release. I can crack the pipes and push the rams back but as soon as I rev to pull it across they lock back on. There is a pipe going from the valve to another control valve which is part of the slew and slows the slew as I reach full lock so I think the issue might be there somewhere. My question at this point is, does anyone know if there is a sequence that has to be followed for the sideshift to release?
Welcome to HEF hofmann! I doubt you will get too many responses re your problem due to the rare set up you have. Side shifts are locked with a valve of some type, whether a mechanical lever or a more modern electric switch. You will need to look at the valve attached to the locking pistons & see how it is operated - mechanically or electrically. I can't figure how it could be attached to the slew??? :beatsme Can you post some pics of the controls? Do you use a second operators seat to operate the hoe? We may spot the control with a pic or two. :drinkup
Sorry guys, will re orient camera. Lock lever is far left on the first picture, actuating far left valve. Second photo shows lock piston down low
FWIW these sideshift units are much more common throughout the Persian Gulf Region, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, and clear up to Turkey. I don't know if a similar forum exists for those regions. Also, have you tried activating the lock lever and trying the other operating controls? It could divert flow from another function to the sideshift cylinders.
Ok, that unit behind the seat. The two top left hoses go to the slew. The top right hose goes to the side shift lock. There is a piston that is actuated by an egg shaped plate pictured in the last photo. Pretty sure it slows the slew towards full lock
Does that control lever need to be held to release? Or does it lock into the release position? If the hoe is stretched to the rear, with the bucket off the ground slightly, the hoe will sag or drop, when the s/s is released (the pistons retract). Also if it has not been moved for a while, it may need a bit of lube on the top rail to assist the slide. It looks rusty & that wont help. Depending on how the hydraulics are set up, they often 'push' across better than 'pull'. I hope you understand what I'm saying.
Sorry, here is the photo that explains my previous post
Heh guys. I know there is a trick here somewhere. It is rusty and there was heaps of gunk in there when I got it so that won't help but I just can't tell when it's released. To be clear there are no side shifting rams, just lock and unlock. I wonder if I slew right over and then keep slewing? You think it might be that if I hang the backhoe it will suck the fluid back out of those pistons? But then when I go to pull over I think it will lock back on
As you can see there is only one pipe to the lock pistons so either it just releases pressure and scrapes across or somehow reverses flow to pull them out
Hang on, here it is. Not all my photos are loading
They work by pressure to lock (obviously) & the control valve should simply open to tank to release. There is usually a check valve at the pressure supply line before the control valve.
And the control lever will stay in the on/off position. Unfortunately I'm not even sure which is which. From previous reading I seem to remember you guys don't do as much side shift as the Europeans. I would imagine there is a relatively standard procedure for unlocking these things. Maybe need to try the brits.
Hello !!! Read the profile!!!
If the hoe is stretched to the rear - bucket off the ground - engine off - crack the feed lines to the cyls - it must drop & retract the cyls - if not the cylinders are siezed. Ps I just read your first post again - the cyls would seem to be moving....
It looks very similar to the side shift hoe we have on a Kubota R520. There is no noise or difinitve "drop" in the hoe when it's released. It does not slide that easily until you find the "sweet spot"' what I mean is reach out with the hoe and apply some down pressure with the boom, you should be able to see the hoe assembly kind of wiggle or seem loose on the rails it slides on, then gently use the crowd function and the boom function to pull or push the hoe side to side while keeping it in a relaxed position. Basically you need to balance the weight of the hoe so it doesn't bind so it can slide. Hope this helps.
Yep. I can crack the lines and push the cylinders bank no probs. By the time I rev up and go for a slide, they've locked back on. Sorry, what do you want me to do with my profile?
Ok, thanks tags. Does your boom need to be in any particular slew position? I can't help wondering if it had to be at the slow down, just before slow down, in the centre. I have greased up the rails...sort of, not sure if it will help to crack it for the first time. I have put heaps of pressure on it before in various positions and the lock lever in both positions and I couldn't believe it wouldn't slide if it was unlocked. I'll go have another crack. Thanks boys
Ok, thanks tags. Does your boom need to be in any particular slew position? I can't help wondering if it had to be at the slow down, just before slow down, in the centre. I have greased up the rails...sort of, not sure if it will help to crack it for the first time. I have put heaps of pressure on it before in various positions and the lock lever in both positions and I couldn't believe it wouldn't slide if it was unlocked. I'll go have another crack. Thanks boys
My suggestion would be don't rev it up. I see it has quick disconnects, when you throttle up it's probably building enough back pressure on the tank line that the lock cylinders are pushing back out. I'm also guessing that extra hose coming off the slew decellerator valve is nothing more than a case drain line, but it's only a guess. With the engine off try one position of the lock valve and then the other, you should be able to release the lock cylinders one way and not the other, unless there's air in the lines. Try sucking the boom and arm all the way in, swing all the way to the right, sitting in the backhoe seat. Jack the right hand stabilizer up til the unit is leaning to the left. At an idle drop the boom down and just take the weight off the mount... then push out gently with the arm as you wiggle the boom up and down... should just fall to the other side if you have the valve in the right position. Should is easy to say from several thousand miles away!
I had a John Deere 410 with a side shift hoe. On my machine there was a small valve to the left of the backhoe controls that was essentially a bypass valve. A cam shaped lever depressed a plunger which redirected the hydraulic pressure going to the lock cylinders back to the tank, you could hear the oil moving when it was activated. I can't tell from your pictures if you have a similar setup. My thoughts from your description if it is similar is that bypass valve isn't opening enough to bleed off the pressure.
Ok, just so I'm clear, the locks won't pull back, they just release the pressure and sort of scrape along the frame? Should they have no pressure at all, as in a full bypass and you wiggle it, create a few mm gap and they stay there or is there always some pressure, ie some kind of pressure release to keep it to a minimum. If it's a full bypass it should stay out when I lever it out but I haven't got it to do that yet
On my machine it was just partial bypass to release the pressure, the lock cylinders didn't retract. When you activated it you could see the backhoe go limp on the slide but there was full pressure to the backhoe so you could use it to slide the boom on the frame. Release the valve and the backhoe snapped back into position on the rail.
Yeah, I assume you saw that little lever, it was far left in the photo. Just two positions. It sounds the same as yours. My backhoe does not go limp. There was nothing else you had to do like a certain boom position or legs down or anything? Is there anything perishable in that valve like an o ring? How could it be not opening enough? We disconnected the handle and the rod is coming to a positive stop in both directions. I just can't figure out why they would have a hose from the lock valve to the slew valve unless slew position had something to do with it
Tags has given you the best answer I have seen do far and know of,if the arm is under too much pressure you will only pull or push the machine depending on what your doing with the sticks, cannot see clearly with photos but the travel rail will need to be pretty clean and well greased or you will never side shift. Are you trying to pull or push the shift while at 90% if not it will never happen.
If you have lifted the stabilizer leg from the ground when trying to slide you have too much pressure on the rail traveler system and pressure is diverted to the opposite rail runner locking the sliding motion. Take pressure off the boom and try to do little grabs,or pushes away to mover the rail.
I have a kubota 402s loader/backhoe with a side shift. to release the sideshift pistons i pull the leaver towards me. To move the backhoe along the boom I then swing the backhoe back to rubber stop and stretch the backhoe arm at 90 degrees to the loader,then lower the bucket and use it to drag the backhoe along the boom. To lock the sideshift pistons push the lever away from you. Then use the bucket lever to move the bucket until the relief valve works hold this for a couple of seconds while the relief valve is working. Repeat this action a couple of times then the hydraulic slide lock will be set. Hope this helps I had the same problem.
Heh, thanks man, I still haven't fixed this. I followed you until the bit quoted above
To make the relief valve operate it just means the hydraulic ram has reached the end of it's travel. for example by moving the bucket ram only as far as it will go in either direction. Doing this causes the hydraulics to push or set the slide locks. Hope this helps, good luck.
Tried again no joy. So, back to the releasing part, which is my problem, is there anything else to it? The boom doesn't have to be fully stretched or anything? I don't keep pushing on the slew control or something a bit like float mode on the front bucket? I know the pipes for the slide lock are tied into the slew in some way. A manual for would be nice but seriously, I think they must have stopped production after about 3 of these things. Great machine though.
Hi, Here is the instructions for side shifting a JCB backhoe. Maybe this will help. It normally takes me 10 minutes of screwing around to find just the right angle to get it to slide, but when it does it moves freely. If it is too low resolution, here is a link to a higher one. Click Here .
Hi I have attached pages describing the sliding controls and sliding operation of my kubota. I would assume the layout of the controls are standard across different backhoe makes. If you can crack the piston pipes and manually push the backhoe along the boom, I would look at the "set piston part" of the description because this is probably where your problem is. Maybe a stuck valve and the relief valve is operating when it shouldn't. Good luck.
When you release the clamps you should see the carriage move away slightly from the rail ,stretch the arm straight out and bounce it up and down a couple of times , the gap should open up more , then lift the weight of the machine with the backhoe , this will release the bottom ones more , best if you can use an obstruction to push against when moving it , i can move mine in under 1 minute like this ,it may help if it has not been used to coat the rails with a bit of release spray ,but not grease
Wow, thanks so much guys. That gives me a lot of New things to try. I only have two locking pins, it sounds like you have 4. I'm sure I have mentioned it but regardless of boom position, if I crack the pipes and push the locking pins back manually, as soon as I start the machine back up and give it a few revs, the pins push back in. I don't know how much pressure the pins are under but there always seems to be a bit based on how hard they are to pop back out. Maybe there is a problem with a valve. At the same time all my hydraulics are dropping, backhoe and loader and it's not the rams. I've got a pressure test booked for tomorrow. Might have something to do with that problem?
In terms of my locking/clamping pins, I have 2 on the bottom rail.