Drivers FIRST day on the job, told him whatever you do make sure you dump the bags when you raise the bed.....well....... Actually there was a chain of events that led up to a event, 1. Truck was stuck 2. Air in bags 3. Bed in air 4. Tow chain on front ALL OF THE 4 took place at the same time, great idea huh! I got a call saying that I needed to get out here the lil white truck has a problem..... First thing I did was crawl in the cab and look at the dump valve switch, after a good ass chewing the driver then said he was fine and thanked me for asking (which I didn't) at that time it was the wrong smart ass thing to say and made me more pissed, then the other driver came and said it wasn't just one guys fault....well that brought up the fact that he knocked the corner off his truck earlier that day, longs story short i cleaned a little house ;-) The bitch of it is that we just put a new hood on the red truck the week prior to that due to a new 315 steer tire blowing out and when I say new I meant it left the tire soho picked up a load of rock and blew a tire! Pj
I'm amazed it didn't slingshot the cab over with the frame twisted that far... driver would not have been laughing in the ambulance.... Wow...
That's why I always tell people not to stand next to the truck, especially on the downhill side. They always think for a second, get a funny look on their face and move way away. Funny how this guy laid it over on flat ground. I spend a lot of time on pretty good side hills. (using Haul Max suspension-no air bags for the jobs I do)
I had 2 other walking beams and 1 haulmaxx neither of them had problems for the entire job, I shoulda knew better than to throw a air ride truck but I thought for sure the guy could handle it..... Guess I'm to blame for that lol
That's a bad deal powerjoke . One other item that would help is a plastic ( Polly) bed liner . Another factor is the way a truck is loaded . With wet sticky clay I tend to load at the rear of the truck first then let the material roll forward and don't load any in the front around the cylinder area as it tends to stick on one side or the other .
Used to drive a transfer dump with walking beams. With the back box in, high and heavy. Always got the nose down, side leaner spots to dump. More than once told a dirt foreman, "if you see air under the high side drivers, holler loud and I'll try to get 'er back down before she lays over" Never did, guess my angels liked me. Did have to change my shorts a couple times tho....
I hate to throw salt in your wounds, but after our discussion on dump box pins and trucks tipping over,,, this doesn't surprise me.. but I am sorry for your difficulties.
I have to ask why a truck with air suspended rear bogie would be considered for tipper work. For me a tandem axle tipper rear end is generally steel springs and a fully-articulated rear bogie. I'd be interested to hear the logic behind the air suspension TBH.
That is a bummer. Glad no one was hurt!
It's very common here in the Midwest / central US. Over the road trucks are plentiful ,cheap and easy to rig up. Buy them and run them into the ground. Just gotta use the grey squishy stuff between the ears. That's the short and sweet version.
Air suspension is pretty common on transfer dump and truck and pup setups here in the Northwest when doing long highway trips. Oddly enough there are a lot of "long haul" dump truck loads in these parts for some reason, either hauling specialty materials for delivery or haulling sealed hazmat loads. The air ride makes it a lot more comfortable for the drivers on these highway trips and it's all about working all the hours the log book allows. Most I've seen automatically dump the air when the hoist lever goes into the raise position. Still, the truck I drove had hendrickson beams and it was MUCH more stable when dumping off level.
"Chalmers" high articulation for any off road dirt work. Period ! One axle to seven. Your ordeal still sucks though. Ron
From the pictures the frame twisted which may have allowed the cab to not go over as well. PJ is that dump truck a converted road tractor? If so, is it double framed? Can't tell from the pictures but I suspect the single frame kept the cab on the ground. Not that a double frame wouldn't have twisted, seen it before. - Post 42 - Nige, air suspension on dump trucks in my area are as rare as hen's teeth. 99% have walking beams or other spring/bogie type suspension. Some trailer dumps (tractor/trailer) run air but they make long highway runs like lantraxco like said.
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608020515787443813&w=103&h=103&c=8&pid=3.1&qlt=90&rm=2 The image is tiny but this is Chalmers.
This is a "proper" tipper rear bogie IMHO ............. or even go the whole hog and have reinforced rear axle stabilizers as well.
So they were trying to tow the truck with the bed up? Humm... towing requires 2 and the second didn't mention that lowering the bed would be a good idea? Sorry for your loss on the freighter
You mean your're not suppose to run over those softball size rocks? Who knew that!?
Just wondering. Does any body check to see if their airbags have matching internal stop blocks? on a dump I usually replace the bags in pair to make sure both sides sit at the same height. Bumper block on one side and none on the other is scary enough on asphalt, let alone off road.
Keep with your ego and knowladge trip grandpa, this truck has only had a bed for 9months so no lose hinges here, Rz, all airbags are matching as far a my knowladge but it's definatly something to consider Loose hinges didn't cause the problem, 3 all with different ideas led up to the chain of horrible events, one that got stuck with airbags inflated AND left bed in the air, the other hand that tried to tow him out PLUS the groundsman that was in control of everything ....... Again no loose hinges,,,,, so don't start drama AGAIN grandpa it's not your truck and your half wit advice it not appreciated! Thanks to all the other posters, I'm just trying to raise safety awerness, 9 dump trucks and end dumps on the road today plus a few belly dumps, I ain't no chump at this (comment directed towards GPA) Rick, aka Pj
looks like you need to stay with the belly dumps then less chance of your guys screwing something up then!!!!
If the driver didnt need an ambo after that he would have after I've finished with him we run air bag and spring suspension and tip on alsorts of crap that tip over is a resolt a care being thrown out the window no excuse for it I hope you are covered by insurance.
I think you're seriously underestimating the ability of hired guys to screw up.
I have to admit I'm not a dump truck driver, have no experience with this, but I'm puzzled, and you guys feel free to call me all wet, but I don't quite understand the "dump the bags" thing as to just how that increases stability. If the bags are dumped the frame would either be on the axle stops or deflated bags depending on how the chassis is built. If the box starts to tilt to one side all it will do is pull (extend) a loose bag on the opposite side, there's nothing attaching the frame (like leaf springs) to the axle to take advantage of weight of the axle or tires/wheels for additional counterweight, I don't see any gained stability here. As for the opposite, if you had inflated bags with dual leveling valves, seems to me if the box tilted to one side, the leveling valve for that side would increase pressure in the bags on that side, and the leveling valve on the opposite side would release pressure from the bags on the opposite side, both leveling valves would be trying to keep the frame level. Am I wrong? :beatsme
Pretty straight forward, when the air bags allow the frame of the truck to bottom out there is no movement. If the unit is unstable and going to go over it will be due to soft ground, angle of the truck or load stuck high in the box off center. 90% or better of dump trucks here have air ride but number of trucks on their side with rookie operators is high. Proper education with pictures is lacking with high expectations of common sense intuition for learning and gaining experience normal. Unfortunate incident but not the root of the problem. We routinely dump on the move both boxes up truck and pup and both air ride, very important to know the terrain you are working on and the crew works together to solve problems.
Willie, Very few dumptrucks have dual leveling valves :beatsme particularly converted tractors. If the truck or trailer has dual valves, most valves are delayed action valves (they ride better), and even if they aren't, standard bore valves aren't fast enough to catch it. Some of the newer dump/ offroad specific air suspensions are better, probably equal in stability to 4-spring (with the bags dumped). The spring suspensions made for the job, like walking beam, single-point, and the old Neway beam, average the unlevel ground, kinda like a motorgrader.
Thanks for the reply P Kennedy, and I get what you're saying, makes sense about no or limited movement. But even with that it requires level ground. If the box goes up on any angle deviation from horizontal/vertical then gravity will become a cruel mistress, that's where I don't see where deflated bags add to stability as opposed to a unit that has inflated bags with dual leveling valves. However, if the unit on has a single leveling valve to service bags on both sides, well, a flop is near certain with inflated bags.
We must have typed at the same time, look up.
"Here", lots of highway trucks are re-purposed later in life as farm grain haulers. If they have air bags, they often get air-actuated PTO's to run the hydraulics. When the air valve is flipped, it also dumps the air suspension. (If the installer did the job correctly!) Neighbour has one that the installer didn't do that. We borrowed it once and didn't realize it wasn't set up to dump the bags. Caught the truck in time, but it was starting to lean pretty good when only 1/2 way up. And this was with wheat on it which will flow pretty good compared to most dirt products! Lowered the box and did some searching to find the air dump switch (outside, rear of cab???). Andrew
Aye, we did mitch. :drinkup
Correct me if I'm wrong, but leveling valves don't level the truck; they maintain the distance of the axle to the frame. While this is better in that it keeps the bags on an axle from sharing air and having unrestrained lean, it doesn't do much for leveling the truck uphill.
Thanks for that clarification lumberjack. Perhaps a poor choice of wording on my part that contributed to the confusion, but what you said is really what I meant, the leveling valves maintain a set distance between axles and frame. Which was the point I was attempting to make, a driver raises the box, it's on a bit of an angle, the frame leans to one side making that distance between axle and frame shorter, the leveling valve reacts by adding air to that bag. That's what I was attempting to say. And for road tractors with a single leveling valve that are converted to dump trucks, my question, why? In doing the conversion, why do/did you not do the additional conversion of changing from single to dual leveling valves???
You are for the most part correct mitch504 but remember even when working on established roads there is a 2-4 degree crown to work with and one must learn the feel of the equipment. In saying that there are as mentioned other factors like suspension and valve design to work with. The material being dumped has a major part in this so if you know the load is sticky, the ground is soft or you are not 90 degrees or very close to it on a side slope with loaded bags it could go over. So you re doing the right thing asking questions but if the experience and knowledge is not obtained correctly the chance of an incident is really increased. I can tell you we had more than one go over on it's side but there were some Hendrickson and Chambers as well due to the conditions mentioned. It was noted the hoist had only been on the truck 9 months but the hoist design like the ram directly on the front of the box are notorious for extremely fast wear dumping in bad conditions on the lower pin mounts. Poor decisions based on production and fear instilled by management accounts for a large amount of incidents as well. Not too proud too say been there myself and hopefully 30 years later the number of mistakes made will be minimal if I work through a scenario like this before acting.
Why not even make provisions for leaning the truck uphill to level it? Granted most of the drivers I've used are little more than steering wheel holders, but an operator should be able to use that to their rather large advantage.
Well said P Kennedy.... experience is a good teacher.
Because when most people do the conversion they're trying to do it cheap and easy. Later they complain that it's not done right.
Another thing to keep in mind when dumping with the airbags inflated is your dump valves can't keep up with the truck getting lighter. What I mean is as you raise the bed up material comes out making the truck lighter. This makes the bags lift the truck up higher. I've seen a gravel truck almost go over when the driver forgot to dump his bags and started dumping and a bag let loose. Made a huge boom and almost put the truck on its side.
We generally run freightliner tuff trac, whichis similar to what nige posted, or hendrickson haulmaxx. The haulmaxx is super stable but doesn't articulate the best, still not bad though. The tufftrac is stable and articulates well, and controls wheel jump very well, it also rides excellent.
That's a bad sight. I thought we have had some of the worst help possible, but congratulations I think you have me beat.
I can understand that you were upset and immediately let someone go, but I would be more careful about who you hire and how you treat others when they make mistakes. We all make mistakes but raising your voice and chewing someone out can be dangerous. Some guys are unpredictable, so consider yourself lucky that things didn't take a turn for the worse. I would have apologized if it was an honest mistake and would have accepted dismissal, but you wouldn't have raised your voice at me.
Well... that sounds... sensitive.
Chewing out someone is abusive, and if you don't understand that, it says a lot about you, that you don't respect others and probably not yourself.
Guessing you're against corporal punishment as well? (Obviously not at the work place)
Yair . . . I believe there is too much political correctness and pussyfooting and if you can't take a good bollicking when you screw up big time its time to grow up. Cheers.
Agreed!
We all get angry, we all make mistakes. If the boss is prone to losing his temper, no matter if it's me that screwed up or somebody else, or even a customer or sub or an inspector, if you can't keep it together and act like an adult, it's truck keys and lunch bucket time. Life is too short to work with abusive people no matter the reason. Just my personal philosophy gleaned from thirty plus years of working for and with all sorts, including myself, lol.
You're changing the topic. But to answer your question, I am against any form of abuse, verbal or physical, against anyone, whether they're young or old, male or female.
What do personal rights have to do with political correctness? Either you have respect for others or you don't. I'm afraid to say you're another one who doesn't respect others or yourself. Others and you included have a right to be respected. In fact, the only one who needs to grow up is the abuser, not the abused.
"...but you wouldn't have raised your voice at me"? Hmm, the abused becomes the abuser?
I'm sure we'd all agree that "abuse" (per Dictionary.com) is bad. I think though, if the last bunch of posts are any indication, that we're heading down a slippery slope in discussing what exactly constitutes "abuse" in the workplace. It looks to me as if the exchanges are becoming unnecessarily personal, which, as we all know, is against the forum rules. Let's put this one to rest before anybody gets in real trouble.