How do you keep the batteries charged up over time. My 955 has one bad battery "again" and it has a battery switch. My D3 has a weak battery and I changed out the battery switch and push start to standard key start and no switch. The battery in the D3 isn't even a year old (NAPA), the 955 one is 2 years old the other about 3, and the 3 year old is dead. Guess I really need to install battery tenders as on my boat, either that or get AGM bats but that would be expensive. What do you guys do for equipment that sits a lot?
First question. Do you always use one particular brand of batteries..?
For the most pat I would say yes, but this is only because the closest place is NAPA so they are used most often. Have to drive some distance to get something else
First off i'd check to see if there is a draw with the machine off. Then start looking into caterpillar batteries. They last me 10-15+ years... The older motorcraft batteries gave me good service too.
On my 12 volts systems with dual batteries hooked in parallel I use two battery disconnects, one from each battery. I used to have to put new batteries in my log skidder every year as one battery would crap and then discharge the good one causing it to freeze. Been 4 years now since the dual shutoff and still starting good on the same batteries. The other advantage is that I shut one disconnect off at a time while operating to insure full battery charge in both batteries. On 24 volt sysyems you need to insure you are not pulling a 12 volt load off one battery. That will do them in every time.
I have battery tender pigtails on everything, they make a 24V tender so on my 623's I charge all 4 batteries all at the same time. Recharge every month if the machines are not in use. On 12V the small 12V tender works fine. Keep the posts and battery tops clean and don't let them die. It is not uncommon for us to get 7 to 8 years out of batteries, had one pair of Interstate 8D's on a D8K that went 10 years. Some Cat and some Interstate or Decca, normally stay away from cheaper ones. Keep the disconnect switch off when not in use. Also your charging system is important to battery life
I wanted someone else to say it otherwise I could have been accused of favouritism, but Cat batteries are far and away the best on the market - with a price tag to match of course. DPete's suggestion of battery tender pitgtails is a good one provided the machines in question are always parked somewhere close enough to the battery tender to make it feasible to connect them. Other than that it's the PITA of removing the batteries every time you park the machine and storing them in a warm garage hooked up to a battery tender.
I recently was told by a major battery company store manager that batteries should be removed and keep in cold storage for the best preservation, the same as the dry cells we keep in the freezer. He didn't mean in the freezer but in a unheated space. Anybody else ever hear of this?
Thanks guys, kind of figured the tenders are the main route. Plan to put the D3 on the trailer so I can get it out of the weather and plug it in easier. Never thought much of NAPA batteries even though I have a set of them in the 416, but it gets started about once a month. Batteries in my boat would only last 2 years so I went to Lifeline AGM and its been 5 years now, they are 300 for a group 27. According to CAT the 4D is 324 but also says contact dealer, which tells me its more then that. I did forget to turn the switch off on the 955, so guess that may have caused my issue with it. The D3 figure I'm going to check and see if I have something draining it. Looks like I'll be making a trip to CAT
Another suggestion when you go to the Cat dealer is to ask them to show you the Cat Emergency Start system which is basically a receptacle to mount on a convenient location on a machine and connect to the batteries. To jump a machine from another one that is equipped with the same system you then use a set of leads that are plug-in to the receptacle (one each machine) and make jump starting a one-man job plus safe as well because there is never a spark as you pull the connectors out of the receptacle. Never heard of keeping batteries cold before. I was always under the impression with lead-acid batteries that they needed to be kept warm to avoid damage. In really cold climates we always manufactured an external booster pack and mounted the batteries in a well-insulated box to stop them being affected by the cold when we took them out to the job site.
I've never heard somebody recommend cold storage, but it should work the same as other battery chemistry, even a deep freeze. What kills the batteries in storage is self discharge, lead acid should be stored fully charged and the colder it is, the slower they discharge. A charged battery left to sit at the end of fall will be fine in the spring, but if it sits through some hot months first it will probably be dead enough (acid concentration to low) to freeze. Cold weather does NOT hurt batteries, freezing discharged batteries does. Another trick to make your batteries last longer is to deliberately dilute the acid, remove a measured amount of acid from each cell and replace it with distilled water. That effectively lets the cell be fully charged (lead only on the lead side) with a lower concentration of acid. Don't try this if you plan to use that battery during the winter, it won't have nearly the CCA it did, but it will last longer if you only use it for starting in warm weather.
Never heard of keeping batteries cold before. I was always under the impression with lead-acid batteries that they needed to be kept warm to avoid damage. In really cold climates we always manufactured an external booster pack and mounted the batteries in a well-insulated box to stop them being affected by the cold when we took them out to the job site.[/QUOTE] I certainly agree that a warm battery will have a lot more cranking power than a cold one when it comes to using it. They used to say that a battery only had 25% of it power at 0 degrees F than it did at 70 degrees F. They seem to be better than that now although engnes start better now also.
It is my impression that time spent at elevated heat takes the life out batteries, but when they are warm the chemical action is more active. When they get cold there is slower chemical action and also engines take a lot more power to turn over. So the summertime damage shows itself in wintertime problems but it was not the winter that caused it.
possibly us a 12-24 volttrickle solar charger to keep topped up charge,there not overly expensive compared to a battery.
Yeah, I like the solar charger idea. I took the batteries out of my dozer and put them on a battery tender last winter and you should have seen the electric bill! (not sure if it was the tender or my kids on their laptops all day!) Like others have said, buy quality batteries, make sure your charging system is working well and check your grounds. I added an extra B- to engine block ground cable. Helps with proper charging and better starting.
Im thinking kids on laptops, trickle charge cuts in and only tops up the charge,very low power .but with your winter weather you nee the sun of course.wait for the bill when the grand kids arrive.
Put an amp meter in line and found a 220mA draw. Only thing I can see that might draw that is either the ALT or starter. Starter is new ALT is old, so either way looks like either a switch or a maintenance charger. For now its a maintenance charger Thanks for all the comments
Check for leaking diodes in the Alternator
Thanks, that was my first thought also. If I can find some time may take it in and have it checked, but don't think the shop I would take it to could determine if this was the issue
Disconnect the big wire at the alternator, if the 220 mA drain disappears you have a bad alternator diode. What kind of alternator? some are easy to get apart and get parts for. Like less $ than the gas to get out your driveway cheap.
The ALT is P/N 7N-4784 Will check into the drain when I get a chance
I got this switch for my dozer; http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CON4MA...UTF8&colid=262QBV170RD6O&coliid=ITX3TJX9B23TH
The regulator assembly for that alternator that contains the diode pack is available separately, Part Number 7N-5961.
I have had good luck with the Sears Diehards but I never bought them for equipment.The battery in my truck is still good after not being charges for the 2.5 years I was in rehab and I have been home for 1.5 years and it was not new when I went away.I have heard about the Cat batteries and know of others that use them in their personal pickups etc.I can see why after reading Niges comments.Ron G
I use the solar chargers, HF ones, been using them for years on many of my machines, camper, and boat.
You could also add a Hobbs pressure switch into the ALT circuit. .with the engine off, it disconnects and as soon as the engine builds oil pressure it switches the alternator in. It's the same switch as is used for hour meters. Check with your local NAPA store
Go figure ALT cost 568 and regulator cost 261 Maintenance charging or switch looks a whole lot better Don't think the hobbs switch would work, correct if I misunderstand. The leaking current is going from the battery to the output terminal of the ALT (40 AMPs). Switch is not made to handle that amount of current. Don't see the current leaking through the field side because my key switch disconnects this side.
Is pulling a terminal off the alternator when the machine is laid up for long periods an option..?
Actually that would even be the easier option
Have the diode in the alternator checked. If bad, it would cause a slow drain.
We've been there already - posts #18 & 19. The diode is part of the regulator package and a new regulator is $260. A replacement alternator would be almost $600. The OP decided he didn't want to spend that much.
How about a picture of the alternator? I'm guessing that Cat didn't make the alternator, and even if it is built specifically for Cat then the parts might be the same as other models from the same company, Delco, Denso, Prestolite, Motorolla or... And if you can't find the parts, a replacement alternator that can be made to fit is another option.
I am not sure if these folks still publish a catalog since the magic of the internet and I don't do the electronic repair that I used to do but I wouldn't be surprised if you can get the parameters of many devices that need to be replaced there is a good chance that they might be able to furnish a replacement by return mail in some cases. http://www.nteinc.com/ Ron G
Here is my ALT, its a CAT part. I'm sure I could take it to the local ALT, starter repair shop and they could fix it for under $50. That said its also real easy to clip on a maintenance charger or disconnect the cable. My 955 has a dead cell in it so I was unable to get it started today. Going to take it to CAT for a replacement if I can ever get them to answer the phone (long wait times). Just want to know what the current price for it is before I take the 1 1/2 hour trip.
Dirt on top of batteries often gets some acid in it and it can discharge the batteries in a few days. Keeping the tops of batteries clean and dry is a good idea. A charging system that is over-charging will greatly shorten battery life. A dragging starter that pulls very high current is hard on batteries, too. Batteries don't like either extreme heat or extreme cold. Batteries should not be mounted where they can pick up extra heat from hydraulic tanks or whatever unless you're in a very cold area. If you're in a very cold area, a battery box warmer and a block heater would be good to have, if practical... maybe a hydraulic tank warmer, too.
That's a Denso alternator (Nippondenso). Complete after market units can be had as low as $113.24. All a produced off shore. Google the 7N4784 number.
I took the 24V one from my 922A loader to a local starter/alternator shop and they rebuilt it and also changed the built in regulator to make it a one wire alternator. Cost me $93.00 about two years ago. It looks like the one in your picture. Mine was not working when I bought the loader and someone had put a 12 volt regulator on the 24 volt alternator.
Although I have operated dozers occasionally over the last 30-odd years, I have only owned my own (just a li'l Furukawa CD5B) but have also had trouble keeping my batteries charged. To be honest, I think my alternator is faulty (haven't checked it thoroughly yet) but the easiest way to maintain charge is to simply lift the seat and disconnect the battery leads after I have finished work. It is a 2-minute job and a solution that is foolproof! Once I have found the reason for my batteries discharging, I plan to use a couple of 12V trickle chargers to maintain them; I have not found a 24V trickle charger (don't even know if they exist!), but 12V units are readily available at low cost, so just using one on each battery is a simple and low cost solution. I use a trickle charger on one of my other vehicles that I only drive occasionally and it works a treat. In fact, the previous battery in that car lasted 6 years and an auto electrician told me that using the trickle charger was undoubtedly the reason for the extended battery life. As for my dozer problem, I am unsure whether it is leakage in the wiring harness (I can see that a previous owner has meddled with the electrics), leakage through the alternator, or possibly even quite simply that the alternator is not charging the batteries. I want to rip out the entire electrical system and replace it with a simple system that just provides the bare essentials.